System and maybe setting for Mars colony game?

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The problem with d100 games in general I think is that the major engines (BRP, Legend, OpenQuest, Mythras) are very much toolkits ... no one really takes one of them in hand and bends/folds/spindles/mutilates them into something with a definite vision...
What do you consider to be a product with a definite vision that has been successfully bent/folded/spindled/mutilated from its source mechanics? Are you talking about an OSR-like fanbase molding interesting mechanics from these toolkits? Or 3PP doing the work? A fusing of a great setting with tailored BRP-ish mechanics?

There has been a lot of great D100 work from 3PP over the past 8 or so years, from Alephtar Games' historical supplements; to some of D101 Games releases; to Cakebread & Walton's Renaissance OpenQuest/MRQ2-modified-system and settings. (Crooked Staff Publishing's Age of Shadow just came to mind, as well). But perhaps not the perfect fusing of setting and mechanical innovation/tailoring. And, I can see that maybe being a detriment to the D100 industry - if that is much of a thing these days.
 
Coming back to Jovian Chronicles for a sec, what is Mars like in that setting?
 
Check out the Jovian Chronicles wiki for a summary of Mars and the other Solar Nations. That'll give you a starting point, at least.

This is a great set-up. Superior to The Expanse and on par with Orbital, IMHO. What's a good setting gazetteer for me to use this (with or without mecha) with Traveller/Cepheus?
 
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What's a good setting gazetteer for me to use this (with or without mecha) with Traveller/Cepheus?
You'd probably get the most mileage out of the JC 2nd Edition Player's Handbook, especially if you're planning to use it with a different system. It packed together setting material from the 1st edition, and (IIRC) content from the Spacer's Guide, Space Equipment Handbook, and I think the JC Companion. (It's been a lot of years; memory is shot....).

If you wanted finer detail on the different Solar Nations, you'd probably want to spring for the various Planet Sourcebooks. Check this listing of all JC PDFs on DTRPG.
 
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You'd probably get the most mileage out of the JC 2nd Edition Player's Handbook, especially if you're planning to use it with a different system. It packed together setting material from the 1st edition, and (IIRC) content from the Spacer's Guide, Space Equipment Handbook, and I think the the JC Companion. (It's been a lot of years; memory is shot....).

If you wanted finer detail on the different Solar Nations, you'd probably want to spring for the various Planet Sourcebooks. Check this listing of all JC PDFs on DTRPG.

Do you have opinions about the specific Mars book I see the line has?
 
The Mars Planet Sourcebook is stuffed full of a lot of quality, IMO. (Like the majority of JC's Planet Sourcebooks). Lots of details on the development of Mars over time and its gradually terraformed environment; setting background; detail on the two opposing political entities; campaign suggestions; Mars-focused equipment.

Take a look at the ''full-sized preview" of the MPS on that DTRPG link, and view the table of contents. See if the areas it covers comes close to satisfying your needs. (I can try and give you more details of what is in those sections, if you have any questions).

And, as I mentioned before, the Gurps 3E Mars book could also provide you with a lot of nitty-gritty scientific and environmental detail on Mars. It depends a little on what your needs are as a GM.
 
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Jovian Chronicles is definitely looking good, but it does make me realize that I've watched very little mecha anime.
I could use some recommendations for hard* sci-fi mecha anime that isn't too depressing. Actually featuring Mars would be a plus.

* Yeah yeah yeah, I know, giant fighting robots are not by definition hard sci-fi, let's just accept that handwave.
 
No Mars hardish anime comes to mind. But... Armored Trooper VOTOMS comes to mind. Depending on the series and episode, they take place on a variety of planets. I'm pretty certain a couple Mars like ones. I also personally like Gundam, particularly MS team 08. Which is earth but could easily be considered or thought of as MArs. Given the types of terrain seen. (Although it has been sometime since I watched it)
 
I'm not well-versed in mecha anime, or in anime in general ... even being a Jovian Chronicles fan. (I like the setting elements about the colonization/terraforming of our solar system, and the conflict between the solar nations more than the giant robots. I'm fine with exo-suits but exo-armors are a little silly for my tastes). The only hard sci-fi anime I'm familiar with is Planetes - but its focus is on orbital trash collectors. No mecha, nothing based on a planet.
 
I'm fine with exo-suits but exo-armors are a little silly for my tastes).

This is an interesting distinction by itself: I know giant humanoid robots will never really happen, but are exo-suits scientifically and tactically plausible?

pN7cgDI.jpg
 
I think they are both plausible, but not quite the way they are in sci-fi. SOCOM has been working on an exosuit, but it relies on sort of a liquid metal instead of plates so that troops can maintain mobility. I think we will see a terminator-type robot before we ever see big exo-suits that are in the artwork above.

Here's a link to an article.
 
This is an interesting distinction by itself: I know giant humanoid robots will never really happen, but are exo-suits scientifically and tactically plausible?
I think they're quite plausible, especially given another 100-200 years of technological developments, and improvements.

I'm not an expert on this by any means. But, some quick googling reveals a number of produced exoskeletons, most of which have medical applications. (For individuals with spinal cord injuries, or paraplegics, etc.). But there are also some military exoskeleton in stages of development, like the Raytheon XOS 2 and the Lockheed Martin HULC. Both can provide the soldier with the ability to carry heavy loads more easily; the XOS 2 apparently can increase the strength, agility, and endurance of the soldier (Raytheon YouTube video and Lockheed Martin's HULC video).

If these kinds of load-assist exoskeletons are embraced by the military, and how long will it take until they start armoring them up, and mounting weapons on them? :smile: (Assuming that they're practical to be used while in battle. Likely not possible now, but in decades or centuries? Maybe.)
 
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Late to the thread, but here are some other options:
  • Cyberpunk 2020 with Low Orbit and Deep Space
  • Shadows Over Sol, they have a Mars colony storyline.
  • Hostile (Cepheus Engine)
 
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If these kinds of load-assist exoskeletons are embraced by the military, and how long will it take until they start armoring them up, and mounting weapons on them? :smile: (Assuming that they're practical to be used while in battle. Likely not possible now, but in decades or centuries? Maybe.)

I think the big lapse in logic in the solider exo-skeleton sf idea is why have the solider in the suit at all? As modern day drone technology shows it makes far more sense to have the solider remotely controlling the unit from safety.
 
Wait, why not MgT2? I'm out of the Mongoose loop and I haven't looked at that system yet, what did I miss?
It fine even upped the graphics presentation but ultimately it is just YAET (Yet Another Edition of Traveller). There is little to recommend it over Mongoose Traveller 1st and by extension Cepheus. Except you don't own anything new Traveller and want to jump in with something that is currently supported edition.

Now the support products for MgT2 have been interesting like the Great Rifts supplement. Plus the new adventures. However MgT2 is still a close cousin of classic Traveller so any edition of Traveller that similar can be used with their support products.
 
I think the big lapse in logic in the solider exo-skeleton sf idea is why have the solider in the suit at all? As modern day drone technology shows it makes far more sense to have the solider remotely controlling the unit from safety.
No fair arguing against a post I made 14 months ago. :smile: Statute of Rpg forum limitations.

I'm not a military historian, tactician, or theorist - I've got an old buddy who can cover a lot of territory in that department - but I'd be curious to see if the presence of a physical soldier is totally divorced from the battlefield in the future. Seems like it would depend on advancements in drone technology, and whether it could cover a wide range of roles, beyond surveillance and acting as a weapons platform. Also probably depends on how far in the future we're talking.
 
What system and / or setting would you suggest for a game set among Mars colonies?

Parameters:
- Hard sci fi (no FTL)
- Proper acknowledgment of robot-induced job loss, genetic engineering, cybernetics, etc.
- Colonies developed enough for recurring armed conflict to be a risk.
Transhuman Space + Deep Beyond check all those boxes, if I remember right, in special the social implications of the techs.

Though I think Mars already started it's terraforming process so it may be a little bit different from what you envision.
 
I think the big lapse in logic in the solider exo-skeleton sf idea is why have the solider in the suit at all? As modern day drone technology shows it makes far more sense to have the solider remotely controlling the unit from safety.
I agree. Or no remote controlling at all and just upload an expert/AI system to the drone.

Transhuman Space depicts this well, I think: poor nations that can't afford (or which legislation don't allow) AIs or advanced systems deploy genemodified soldiers on power armor. Rich nations just deploy intelligent combat drones.
 
I think the big lapse in logic in the solider exo-skeleton sf idea is why have the solider in the suit at all? As modern day drone technology shows it makes far more sense to have the solider remotely controlling the unit from safety.

Treize disapproves.
 
Fictionwise when looking for inspiration regarding Mars I’d recommend:

Heinlein’s classic juvenille Red Planet (try the find the original published version not the later one which restores some OT political Heinlein rants and a weaker ending)

Ian McDonald’s imaginative Desolation Road

Kim Stanley Robinson’s Mars Trilogy (I’ve only read the first book though)
No Ray Bradbury or Ben Bova? (I've read the former but not the latter but both names are associated with Mars.)

Or Edgar Rice Burroughs for the most fun Mars of all. :thumbsup: But definitely not "hard" sci fi.
 
And where can one find these articles?

Butcher John Ossoway has all this stuff online but it’s not searchable. If you reach out to him at D101 Games he might send you the link.

What do you mean by "more pure sci-fi"?



Interesting. What's the gist of it?
 
No Ray Bradbury or Ben Bova? (I've read the former but not the latter but both names are associated with Mars.)

Or Edgar Rice Burroughs for the most fun Mars of all. :thumbsup: But definitely not "hard" sci fi.

Love Bradbury’s Mars stories, I think they’re the first sf stories I ever read, but they’re pretty far from the requested ‘hard sf.’ McDonald’s Desolation Road is clearly influenced by Bradbury though.

I’m only familiar with Bova as an editor, although I think I’ve read a short story of his somewhere.
 
Butcher sorry this is necro. I didn’t notice at first this was such a old conversation. But I do recommend Cthulhu Rising in general!

It's good necro.

I was quite miffed at the lack of technical crunch in Cthulhu Rising. I'd love to look at these essays.
 
I think the big lapse in logic in the solider exo-skeleton sf idea is why have the solider in the suit at all? As modern day drone technology shows it makes far more sense to have the solider remotely controlling the unit from safety.
As long as you're using them in combat against 3rd world countries with no Electronic Warfare capability whatsoever.
 
It's good necro.

I was quite miffed at the lack of technical crunch in Cthulhu Rising. I'd love to look at these essays.
Yeah Cthulhu Rising is pretty high level. But some of the articles go into detail. For example I remember the android rules being quite detailed
 
As long as you're using them in combat against 3rd world countries with no Electronic Warfare capability whatsoever.
From my limited understanding there are some problems with using land based drones in combat. Probably the most severe limitation is satellite bandwidth. Its one thing to have satellte bandwidth for 20 UAVs at a time but there isn't enough for thousands of ground units. Of course you could use RADIO but that tends to get blocked by things like trees and hills. Finally there's latency. In the air maybe 1 second of latency doen't matter too much but to a semi-automonous tank 1 second could be bad. If I can find the article where I read about this I will post it here.
 
Well, I am working on StarCluster 4 - In The Beginning, which is set in the solar system circa 2120. The setting is created by playing a board game (included), so it is different every time. It will be very hard SF. It will also be weird and idiosyncratic, and probably not at all what anyone wants, so it's probably best to ignore it.
 
Star Cluster would work fine. I'll add High Colonies, GURPS Terradyne, and Cyberpunk 2020's space book as possible source material and options. GURPS Terradyne in particular if you can find it deals with early exploration and colonization of the solar system, it's not quite cyberpunk, not dark or stylish enough. It seemed to me most adventures would deal with corporate espionage. One of those settings where you don't quite know what the PCs do. Spacemaster Privateers still has one of my favorite treatments of robots in an rpg but the robots are set up for TL 27 and the game you want to do is TL18 or 19. Essentially Tech Law Robotics gives tech level caps and prices for various abilities so building a robot amounts to writing down the abilities and totalling the cost. It's actually quicker to build a robot or space ship than a character.
 
On the powered armour verses drones debate, I think you'd see both in use. Drones can be jammed and are less flexible. Captured drones can be hacked and stripped for parts or turned on their creators. People can be tried and punished for their crimes, drones, not so much. Where I really see powered armour coming into its own is asymmetrical warfare in situations like Iraq and Afghanistan where a casualty adverse force is willing to pay the big bucks to prevent losses.
 
Well, I am working on StarCluster 4 [...] it will also be weird and idiosyncratic, and probably not at all what anyone wants, so it's probably best to ignore it.
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I noticed that Marketing Specialist is not in your job description. :wink: Does Flying Mice Games have one?
 
From my limited understanding there are some problems with using land based drones in combat. Probably the most severe limitation is satellite bandwidth. Its one thing to have satellte bandwidth for 20 UAVs at a time but there isn't enough for thousands of ground units. Of course you could use RADIO but that tends to get blocked by things like trees and hills. Finally there's latency. In the air maybe 1 second of latency doen't matter too much but to a semi-automonous tank 1 second could be bad. If I can find the article where I read about this I will post it here.
Most settings I know that portray advanced enough tech to start colonizing Mars (Eclipse Phase, Transhuman Space) also portray AI or similar expert systems to control drones/shells/morphs discarding the need for teleoperation altogether.

If one prefers to discard such technology though, then yes, what you say makes sense.
 
I would point out though, that unless they are playing the AI, there seems very little reason to have players in a game where all dangerous tasks are done by AI.

I mean, unless you want to just play drama and no action. Which is a perfectly valid gameplay decision.
 
I would point out though, that unless they are playing the AI, there seems very little reason to have players in a game where all dangerous tasks are done by AI.

I mean, unless you want to just play drama and no action. Which is a perfectly valid gameplay decision.
Yes, I think that's one of the reasons these transhuman-themed games make AIs as playable as humans.

Don't know if this kind of thing is something the OP had in mind for his game though.
 
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I remember The Alexandrian reviewing it (a looong time ago) and talking about questionable math:

http://thealexandrian.net/wordpress/34907/roleplaying-games/rpgnet-review-jovian-chronicles



Did this math issue get ironed out before the game line stopped being supported (a fact that doesn't bother me by the way, dead games don't suddenly change in ways that mess up your campaigns)?

Also, and I'm not sure on this, didn't Jovian chronicles chicken out and avoid dealing with the likely consequences of genetic engineering, cybernetics, and AI?
Personally, I resolved it by making the Attributes determine the dicepool, and the skills determining the bonus.
Then again, it was a short campaign:wink:.

Personally, I was going to suggest either Eclipse Phase, or Blue Planet v2, though.
 
I actually quite like Jovian Chronicles (Silhouette), but it does have a lot of rules that are well... just really not needed. Like sometimes I think the designer just read about something interesting and just HAD to add a specific rule for it in the game.

They are almost always things you can ignore though as they just handle super specific situations.

My favorite example of this is in the Companion where they give specific rules for Aerobraking (dipping into the atmosphere from space to slow yourself down).
 
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As long as you're using them in combat against 3rd world countries with no Electronic Warfare capability whatsoever.

But if they were capable of that they would be equally capable of disrupting the battle suits. I get why they exist in genre fiction but in RL which was the post I was addressing they are highly unlikely.
 
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