Warhammer Fantasy/40K RPG Megathread

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Maybe it's a question of scale? "Regular" WFRP for people who want to be Rat Catchers and shit-covered camp followers. Age of Sigmar for those who want to leap off the back of a cyborg Hippogriff to drop kick Tzeentch in the face while sporting diamond-sparkling armor. Or whatever that game is about.

Disclaimer: this post was a poor attempt at comedy.
Comedy or not, that would be the ideal. We get a version of WFRP that works for people that liked the original, and we get a crazy, gonzo version. I could see both being a lot of fun.
 
The biggest problem I think in doing it with Warhammer is that it completely changes the nature of the game. The original setting was deeply entrenched in the human kingdoms, far from any of the weirder or more outlandish stuff which is the focus of the wargame. WFB dealt with mass battles with huge monsters, outlandish weapons of war, and the sort of creatures one only encountered outside the safety of the civilized world. and End Times game would bring all that to the forefront, which is great for a wargame , but less compelling for a street-level rpg IMO. The RPg wasnt about Karl Franz on his Hippogriff or the Necrarchs of The Tomb Kings kingdoms, it was about rat-catchers with small but vicious dogs, street charlatans, and pit fighters, and was richer for it.

Some WFB fluff does directly contradict the established WFRP setting — e.g. WFB heroic hipogriff-riding Hammer-of-Sigmar-swinging Karl Franz vs. WFRP/TEW weak, ineffectual, grasping-at-straws, replaced-by-a-Chaos-mutant Karl Franz.

But more often than not, one can deploy WFB characters, monsters and weapons as unusual and devastating antagonists, allies and features, amping up the "peril" in "grim and perilous" as it were. (We had some fun "oh shit they have a Rat Ogre" moments in the short WFRP2 game I played.)

Besides, if you can pull a Shadow of the Demon Lord and bring Chaos (or the green skins, or the undead, or whatever) closer and closer to the PCs' turf as they level up, you can set your campaign towards a cataclysmic WFB-ish conclusion. Talk about zero to hero!
 
Warhammer had a lot of satire, British humor about churches, feudalism, nobility, etc.

As far as WFRP1 goes, the game was focused not on the epic battles of WFB, but where normal everyday folks encountered the abnormal, and became something more than everyday folks themselves. You started as some person, whether Rat-Catcher, Smuggler, or Noble who went about their lives until Something Happened, and you started coming into contact with the Strange, the Weird, the Abnormal. You ceased being one of the nameless masses and became something different: someone with the capacity to change things, to be involved somehow in the larger conflict against Chaos or between the gods. You became an adventurer. This wasn’t very well defined in the text, and the only mechanical structure that supported it was Fate.
WFRP1 pg.15 said:
Fate is the essential difference that marks the character as an adventurer, rather than an ordinary run-of-the-mill citizen. Adventurer characters have a destiny, a mission, a definite goal in life. They may not be aware of what this is, it may not be very glorious, it may not even be particularly pleasant, but the character is marked by the gods to do it - whatever it is. Because your adventurers are marked by Fate, they are unlikely to be cut in two by the first Goblin to swing an axe in their direction - they are marked for better things!

So, you could argue in the end, WFRP and WFB had the same goal, to experience the larger conflicts in the Old World, just one was on a more personal level - the RPG and the other was on an army level - the wargame. However, GW was propelled by miniatures sales, so they needed to have a world where battles between all the cool miniatures could happen someplace other than just the top of the world, or Northern Kislev. Hence Storm of Chaos, End Times, etc.

The RPG format more naturally lends itself to a setting where the conflict isn’t currently raging in full force and a skirmish or army level wargame obviously lends itself to a setting where such open conflict is commonplace. WFRP2 was post-Storm of Chaos, so it was a different world in the sense that knowledge of all the enemies was out in the open, but there was a lull in the fighting, a time where adventurers could again influence things with a smaller focus. Of course, the world by definition is more High-Octane in WFRP2 simply due to being higher fantasy thanks to the Storm of Chaos.

The End Times as an era for WFRP4 would be ratcheting it up another notch still. We’re leaving the realm of “Grim and Perilous Adventure” and entering the realm of 40k’s “Grimdark” where there’s not one, not two, not three, but four enemies Humanity has no chance of beating in the long run, and annihilation is all but assured. Yet even 40k has more hope (in the future of the Emperor) than does WFRP End Times, which ends in the Old World exploding and Sigmar riding the metal Sigmarite core of the planet through space until he encounters the star dragon and…yeah.

But, pre-Apocalyptic scenarios certainly can be great for roleplaying. Ironically, with the coming of The Vermintide, The End Times, etc. WFRP4 might be even more Call of Cthulhu-like than The Enemy Within. I just hope that if they are going to go with the End Times, then they don't go fully over-the-top gonzo. I mean with Age of Sigmar RPG, you're going to have that in spades, so why do two gonzo games with different systems?
 
Back when WFRP1 came out we were still on/around WFB3... which hadn't gotten quite so overblown either. Lots of rank & file troops, fewer gigantic beasties and war machines. Chaos wasn't nearly as big a part of it till the Realms of Chaos books came out. That earlier version of the wargame matched up better with WFRP's sensibilities, IMO.
The earlier versions of WFB were even grottier, and aimed more at narrative campaigns that HYUUUUGE competitive slugfests.
 
Back when WFRP1 came out we were still on/around WFB3... which hadn't gotten quite so overblown either. Lots of rank & file troops, fewer gigantic beasties and war machines. Chaos wasn't nearly as big a part of it till the Realms of Chaos books came out. That earlier version of the wargame matched up better with WFRP's sensibilities, IMO.
The earlier versions of WFB were even grottier, and aimed more at narrative campaigns that HYUUUUGE competitive slugfests.

One thing I miss from WFB were all the odd mercenary units, like Tileans, Estalians, etc, halberdiers, crossbowmen with pavise shields, arquebusiers, landesknechts, skirmishers both foot and horse. They really made for some good RPG minis.
 
One thing I miss from WFB were all the odd mercenary units
I particularly liked how, mid-battle, you could get into bidding wars over them... trying to bribe them to change sides.
 
Back when WFRP1 came out we were still on/around WFB3... which hadn't gotten quite so overblown either. Lots of rank & file troops, fewer gigantic beasties and war machines. Chaos wasn't nearly as big a part of it till the Realms of Chaos books came out. That earlier version of the wargame matched up better with WFRP's sensibilities, IMO.
The earlier versions of WFB were even grottier, and aimed more at narrative campaigns that HYUUUUGE competitive slugfests.


Yeah, with my Oldhammer group we're currently running through the big boxed set campaigns of 2nd edition (adapted to 3rd edition) such as McDeath and Blood on the Streets. Buying up the old minis on Ebay is costing me a small fortune, but they are so full of character. My current collecting goal is to get each of the minis the original professions in WFRP 1e was based upon.
 
Yeah, with my Oldhammer group we're currently running through the big boxed set campaigns of 2nd edition (adapted to 3rd edition) such as McDeath and Blood on the Streets. Buying up the old minis on Ebay is costing me a small fortune, but they are so full of character. My current collecting goal is to get each of the minis the original professions in WFRP 1e was based upon.
I miss those as well. Narrative campaigns like McDeath were a lot more engaging to me than the End of The World Screaming Chaos Wars. The rules were always better suited to that level anyway.
 
I've said this before, but the WFB rules were never meant for the giant wargames they become, and that bottom-up style of design is actually really unwieldy when stretched too far past the skirmish level. I'm really enjoying Warmaster for bigger games these days, and I'm working on a 28mm fantasy wargame inspired by Warmaster and its spiritual successor Hail Caesar.

Anyways, back to RPGs, I was ta the game store today and was flipping through Cubicle 7's One Ring books. I despise the supplement treadmill style of game presentation, but those books are definitely gorgeous, and we may at the very least get a very beautiful Warhammer book out of this if they go with that sort of aesthetic instead of just using recycled GW art (if I'm not mistaken the main artist on TOR is the same one who did the covers for the Dragon Warriors revamp a few years back? If so Dragon Warriors is a game I already associate with 1the same time period as WFRP).

But I also was thinking as I read bits of The One Ring "do I really need all these rules to run a fantasy game?" It seems a bit "chunky" to me. Then again, I thought their Dr Who system was a masterpiece of streamlined system that compares to some of the best genre games of the 80s. So who knows.

In the meantime, I'm still making my way through Zweihander (review coming soon), and would like to give it a try. And I have Mythras/RQ 6 which I love. And I still havent taken D&D 5th for a test run. And I've been itching to start up a new Plaanescape game for a while. And ...and...and...etc. I'm reluctant to buy new games these days that I know are just going to sit on my "Someday I'd like to try" shelf.
 
Warhammer had a lot of satire, British humor about churches, feudalism, nobility, etc.

It helps to think of WFRP as a D&D through an AD2000 lens. (AD2000 here being shorthand for Thatcher-era darkly humorous, over-the-top dystopic fiction.)

But, pre-Apocalyptic scenarios certainly can be great for roleplaying. Ironically, with the coming of The Vermintide, The End Times, etc. WFRP4 might be even more Call of Cthulhu-like than The Enemy Within. I just hope that if they are going to go with the End Times, then they don't go fully over-the-top gonzo. I mean with Age of Sigmar RPG, you're going to have that in spades, so why do two gonzo games with different systems?

To the best of my understanding, AoS is going to be a "WFRP Space Supers" game, and WFRP4 something closer to trad WFRP albeit set in a more critical period of Old World history.

Anyways, back to RPGs, I was ta the game store today and was flipping through Cubicle 7's One Ring books. I despise the supplement treadmill style of game presentation, but those books are definitely gorgeous, and we may at the very least get a very beautiful Warhammer book out of this if they go with that sort of aesthetic instead of just using recycled GW art (if I'm not mistaken the main artist on TOR is the same one who did the covers for the Dragon Warriors revamp a few years back? If so Dragon Warriors is a game I already associate with 1the same time period as WFRP).

Yeah, Jon Hodgson, same guy. Love his work.

I'm not into TOR but some people in my group have played it. It does look a bit crunchier than I prefer.

In the meantime, I'm still making my way through Zweihander (review coming soon), and would like to give it a try. And I have Mythras/RQ 6 which I love. And I still havent taken D&D 5th for a test run. And I've been itching to start up a new Plaanescape game for a while. And ...and...and...etc. I'm reluctant to buy new games these days that I know are just going to sit on my "Someday I'd like to try" shelf.

Same here. I promised Daniel a review too :o And also on the same footing WRT to the queue/backlog of stuff I want to run.
 
if I'm not mistaken the main artist on TOR is the same one who did the covers for the Dragon Warriors revamp a few years back? If so Dragon Warriors is a game I already associate with 1the same time period as WFRP.
I like Mr. Hodgson's style a lot as well. I wonder how I'll feel seeing it applied to the Warhammer setting... the older GW art is much less somber than his. Will his orks look as kooky?

Dragon Warriors has shot up my 'must play' list of late... along with Cadwallon for some reason.
 
I own Cadwallon. Its a very very beautiful game. And it is, I think, unplayable as written. I am assured by people who speak French as their native language it is not simply that the translation is awful (it is), that even in the original language the system is a hodgepodge of interesting ideas that were clearly never playtested, far too complex for a reasonable RPG, and don't mesh together in anyway that makes sense. There are germs of brilliant ideas in there that one day I'd like to mine for a game of my own, but as it stands I don't think anyone could sanely call it a game system so much as "here's some vague ideas for how to make characters and then playact them with miniatures on a very controlled map"
 
I own Cadwallon. Its a very very beautiful game. And it is, I think, unplayable as written.
I'm not so sure... I've been giving it a re-read/closer read and taking notes as I do so... pretty much re-writing it in me-speak and I think it's starting to come into focus for me. It's much simpler than it first appeared.
I'm not saying it's a great system or anything, I really intend to run Aarklash/Cadwallon with Magic World/BRP... but I wanted to get a better feel for what was intended.
The whole 'Attitudes' thing didn't sit well with me at first glance but now I'm kind of grooving on it... like shifting into different aspects of personality depending on the situation... or not. Do I go to the masked ball in with a pugnacious attitude or do I shift into something more stylish and interactive? What if a fight breaks out?
 
As must know by now, Cubicle 7 now has the license for Warhammer role-playing. At GenCon the following flyer showed up:
20915346_1852666478082928_2289731599710383620_n.jpg


Here is what we know thus far: Warhammer Fantasy and Age of Sigmar are going to be two separate gamelines. Additionally, a poster at RPGnet, Gears, posted the following paraphrased account of his conversation with the developers:

"*WHFRP4 will be a bit different from 1&2, but "if you stood on their shoulders, you could clearly see 4 from there". It will not borrow anything from 3, and is clearly looking to be the latest evolution of the classic % system.

*default setting of 4 is Enemy Within era Empire. By dialing the timeline back, they let everyone enjoy the classic Old World feel and decide for themselves how far they wish to go into the Storm of Chaos/End Times material.

*WFRP is meant to be the "look, a bloodthirster! run!" game, while Age of Sigmar is meant to be the "look, a bloodthirster! charge!" game. Different power levels, different gonzo levels. He said that while he and other writers on WFRP4 are big fans of the classic Old World, they're actually really looking forward to AoS as a chance to do something that feels very different within the Warhammer mythos. He said they have hopes to develop AoS's setting into something very special, and those who were originally turned off by AoS should give the rpg take on it a second look. Maybe that's sales hype, but he seemed genuine.

*he said the current regime at GW is very enthusiastic about RPGs and is a dream to work with. C7 has already been offered free ad space in White Dwarf as a way of supporting the rpg-end of the Warhammer hobby. It's probably too much to hope for WFRP articles to return to White Dwarf, but who knows?"

All in all, I'm pretty optimistic. C7 has a good track record. Their Doctor Who and LOTR adaptions are some of the finer quality games in recent times.
 
I'm extremely excited for both of these games. I have a nearly complete collection of 2nd edition so I likely don't need WFRP4, but that's one of my favorite settings so resisting the urge is going to be tough. The Age of Sigmar sounds really silly to me but I think it's great for being an alternate roleplaying option. What I'm really curious about is just how different the system for AoS is going to be.

Regardless, I'm a big fan of C7 so I think the games are in good hands. I skipped WFRP3 so it'll be nice to see the game receiving some love again.
 
I hope they dial the magic back towards 1e. 2e's magic just felt too rigidly tied to the wargame. Sure, give a list of the spells taught by each college but let wizards learn all kinds of crazy stuff, let the dabble in the dark arts without being wholly subverted all at once.

Hopefully the designers recognize that WFRP is a beloved system with a huge fan base and show a little respect. Turn up the twisted and macabre and turn down the gonzo and absurd please.
 
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I'm sure C7 will do an outstanding job. TOR is my favourite game of all time.

I'm a Warhammer 3e guy, so I'm disappointed but not surprised that they're going back to the previous editions. The FFG system was too proprietary for another company to take it up. Not that it matters, with Genesys coming out, those who want funky dice WHFRP can make their own easily. I'll just convert it over to 3e.

I've run 2e, and played a wee bit of 1e, and of course I'll buy every damn thing they put out for WFRP. AoS isn't my bag. If there's a company who can do WHFRP justice, it's C7.
 
Great news! I have very fond memories of playing 1e and running 2e, and though both have their faults, they were great games. Im hoping for a setting influenced by 1e but I believe the system should build more on 2e. They would be hard pressed remove shadow of the demon lord as my favorite system for anything dark fantasy, but I will definitely get any books they release for 4e.

Looking forward to some enemy within style gaming and getting to use some of the gorgeous miniatures from the forthcmming song of ice and fire miniature game.

I think AoS was a step in the right direction for the miniature game. And the setting has somewhat grown on me, after my negative first reactions. I dont think I would like to run a campaign set in the AoS universe, but I would definetly play in it. I do have a fear that, if AoS turns out to be compatible to w4, then players desire for power creep will make it hard not to introduce AoS elements.
 
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Wonder what authors they have on board. Would like to see a few familiar faces.
 
My budget has already been strained with Zweihander and my 3e collection is complete. I think that I'll pass on these, although I might use the Age of Sigmar as a supplement for Zweihander, LOL
 
  • "*WHFRP4 will be a bit different from 1&2, but "if you stood on their shoulders, you could clearly see 4 from there". It will not borrow anything from 3, and is clearly looking to be the latest evolution of the classic % system.
    That's vague enough to damp my enthusiasm... lipservice to existing fans that there is a modicum of contnuity between systems... but could mean anything or nothing. I'm not fond of using 'evolution' to describe game rules, usually it translates to just chasing trends and fixing what wasn't broke.
 
All in all, I'm pretty optimistic. C7 has a good track record. Their Doctor Who and LOTR adaptions are some of the finer quality games in recent times.
Their Call of Cthulhu material is also quite good. (the Cthulhu Britannica and World War Cthulhu lines). Solid material; great art direction.
I'd put a lot of faith in C7 producing a quality WFRP product.
 
I hope they dial the magic back towards 1e. 2e's magic just felt too rigidly tied to the wargame. Sure, give a list of the spells taught by each college but let wizards learn all kinds of crazy stuff, let the dabble in the dark arts without being wholly subverted all at once.

I never cared for the color-coded magical colleges at all. I don't remember that as part of 1st Edition. The impression you got from that core and adventures was that you apprenticed to become one. I could deal with colleges if they changed them from the rainbow flavors they had in WFB.

Wonder what authors they have on board. Would like to see a few familiar faces.

Yes. The specific authors that worked on the original game had a lot to do with why I love it despite being a bit wonky. They needs some really good people involved.
 
I dearly loved 1st and 2nd Edition WHFRP.

Unless it is really spectacular I will pass on the Age of Sigmar version. I really didn't like how the transition to that setting was handled in the wargame, and it continues to leave me cold. I far prefer the Old World.
 
It's C7, so I'm sure it will be nice and the art will be superb. I'm just not sure we need another game on the WFRP engine; 1e pretty much nailed it first go, 2e was kinda unnecessary, and the 40k games pushed the system well beyond it's limits. It's so... done.

Oh, and there's Zweihander, which I'm looking forward to receiving.

The AoS game, I am interested in, to see what it's like to live in that setting; worst case scenario, we get a high-powered fantasy game to rival Godbound, and even that's pretty cool.
 
I never cared for the color-coded magical colleges at all. I don't remember that as part of 1st Edition. The impression you got from that core and adventures was that you apprenticed to become one. I could deal with colleges if they changed them from the rainbow flavors they had in WFB.

Yeah, color magic didn't exist when 1st Edition was originally published; it was added to the wargame later, and then the RPG magic system had to change to follow the wargame. It actually was first introduced in 1st Edition, though, in Realms of Sorcery (the one that was promised in the core book but not published until 2001 under a different publisher...)

Both the magic systems in 1st and 2nd were not great. I liked 2nd's because it had more flavourful mechanics, while 1st's seemed very generic D&D ripoff. But those mechanics didn't actually work out that great in play. If 4e is very similar to 1e and 2e but with a great magic system, finally - now we'll have something!
 
Yeah, color magic didn't exist when 1st Edition was originally published; it was added to the wargame later, and then the RPG magic system had to change to follow the wargame. It actually was first introduced in 1st Edition, though, in Realms of Sorcery (the one that was promised in the core book but not published until 2001 under a different publisher...)

Both the magic systems in 1st and 2nd were not great. I liked 2nd's because it had more flavourful mechanics, while 1st's seemed very generic D&D ripoff. But those mechanics didn't actually work out that great in play. If 4e is very similar to 1e and 2e but with a great magic system, finally - now we'll have something!
Sure. 1st edition didn't have a great magic system. I just liked the way it was portrayed in the setting more.
 
It seems likely to me that the colleges of Altdorf have their favoured and safe spells which they teach their pupils but I don't like that they're the only wizards. I'd like wizards to be quirky and individual, I think.
 
It seems likely to me that the colleges of Altdorf have their favoured and safe spells which they teach their pupils but I don't like that they're the only wizards. I'd like wizards to be quirky and individual, I think.
Yes. Even with college wizards, I'd rather that colleges were more general academic institutions with wizardry practiced in esoteric societies within them.
 
Another thing to love about Zweihänder — they keep the same schools of magic ("Arcana") and even have separate advanced careers for each (e.g. Hierophant for what would be the White College, Shaman for Amber, etc.) but like everything else ir's been scrubbed of GW canon, so you can handle each as diffuse traditions rather than formal, institutionalized collages. (Or any other way you'd like; Baulderstone's set-up would be very doable.)
 
Another thing to love about Zweihänder — they keep the same schools of magic ("Arcana") and even have separate advanced careers for each (e.g. Hierophant for what would be the White College, Shaman for Amber, etc.) but like everything else ir's been scrubbed of GW canon, so you can handle each as diffuse traditions rather than formal, institutionalized collages. (Or any other way you'd like; Baulderstone's set-up would be very doable.)
I picked up a PDF of Zweihander when Daniel generously gave a limited number out for free(or just made them so cheap it might as well have been free. My memory is fuzzy). I really need to read through it some time.
 
I like both approaches to magic...the colour-based is a nicely streamlined way of handling the length and breadth of various magical themes. I'd almost prefer that WFRP 4e adapts the stem for spellcasting from WFB 8th edition, as a very simple and evocative way of handling magic while still keeping it unpredictable and mutually dangerous.

On the other hand, I like the approach of WFRP 1e, which reminds me of the way spells were handled in the
King's Quest games (a huge influence on my early approach to fantasy rpgs).
 
I'd almost prefer that WFRP 4e adapts the stem for spellcasting from WFB 8th edition, as a very simple and evocative way of handling magic while still keeping it unpredictable and mutually dangerous.
Care to elaborate on it? I think my last edition of WFB was 3rd.
 
It seems likely to me that the colleges of Altdorf have their favoured and safe spells which they teach their pupils but I don't like that they're the only wizards. I'd like wizards to be quirky and individual, I think.

The way I interpreted it is that they are the only State-approved wizards, anyone practicing independently is generally preemptively condemned for Heresy because without the safeguards provided by the Colleges they are far too open to corruption by Chaos
 
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