Zweihander: Grim & Perilous

Discussion in 'General Roleplaying' started by TristramEvans, Apr 28, 2017.

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  1. TristramEvans

    TristramEvans Moderator Moderator

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    Anyone back the Kickstarter? Heard pdfs went out. I skipped it because I still have all my WFRP 1st edition books, so I figured I'd wait for reviews and/or the chance to peruse it.
     
  2. Endless Flight

    Endless Flight Administrator Administrator Moderator

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    I wonder if he'll be around soon to do promotions. :)
     
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  3. TristramEvans

    TristramEvans Moderator Moderator

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    This thread could be a summoning ritual
     
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  4. Shipyard Locked

    Shipyard Locked Active Member

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    I'll call him forth...

    [​IMG]
     
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  5. OHT

    OHT Member

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    *Spooky voice* Some things are best left undisturbed.
     
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  6. Necrozius

    Necrozius Active Member

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    I backed it. The size of the book is intimidating, but it's only because it's so self-contained with options. You'd never need any other books.

    I love WFRP 1e, but I have a few gripes with some of the wrinkles in the rules (purely subjective: to others these aspects are features, not flaws).

    Many of my friends are bitter towards any d100 system. It will be hard to get them on board, despite how much Zweihander solves a lot of balance and "swingyness" of other d100 games.

    I love the art and layout. Reminds me a lot of 1e WFRP.

    Glad that they got rid of all the superfluous genatalia, though. I'm no prude, but they seemed forced and tacky. It's nice that they listened to backers, even though politics infected the Kickstarter comments section.
     
  7. The Butcher

    The Butcher Active Member

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    Care to elaborate on those two points?
     
  8. Necrozius

    Necrozius Active Member

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    Sure.

    Again, to be clear, the things that I dislike are very well received by others. This isn't a critique, just a preference.

    Perceived annoyances with WFRP 1e (and other Warhammer RPGs, like Dark Heresy): low starting stats, low odds of success (getting a 50% in an ability seemed like a big deal at the time...), piles and piles of skills of varying utility and relevance, classes of varying practical worth (in WFRP 1e, everyone gravitated towards the same few classes, in Dark Heresy, the Scum is arguably under powered).

    I was also very bitter than in the time it took me to advance from an Initiate to Cleric Level 4, another player went through about 3 or 4 other careers, scoring all kinds of different practical skills, before reaching Cleric level 2. So something was "off" in terms of class progression and balance.

    In Zweihander, characters have higher starting attributes, acquiring skills (from a more narrow, broadly applicable list) gives bonuses to the related attribute, certain talents allow "flip-flopping" (you can reverse the tens and ones digit to your benefit), aiding others grants them a bonus "tens" die and you can pick which to use) and classes all grant the same number of "advances", although which ones vary greatly (a Camp Follower vs. a Veteran offer wildly different packages).

    All of these things make me and my players more likely to want to play a percentile-based game. It's a matter of stylistic preference, not a judgement call (I've gotten sneering admonishments for disliking 3d6, in order, play it like it is for D&D as well, so there you go).
     
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  9. The Butcher

    The Butcher Active Member

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    Thanks. Not sure how I feel about the higher starting percentages, but I feel WFRP2 adequately addresses the points you've raised about career progression (in 4 careers your Initiate would have gone to Priest, High Priest and... Anointed Priest? Man, time to dig up the old D&D level titles).
     
  10. Necrozius

    Necrozius Active Member

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    Yeah I actually preferred 2e to 1e in terms of game mechanics. 1e was my favourite for mood, feel and general themes, though.
     
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  11. The Butcher

    The Butcher Active Member

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    Yeah, I'm firmly on the "1e for fluff, 2e for crunch" camp myself.
     
  12. zweihander

    zweihander New Member

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    Do not call up that which you cannot put down. o_O
     
  13. zweihander

    zweihander New Member

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    I just finalized the illustrated edition and prepped it for our second proof today.

    In celebration, I'm giving out 5 free copies of the illustrated PDF. Message me and I'll get you set up.

    Best,
    Daniel
     
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  14. Doc Sammy

    Doc Sammy Member

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    So, is the Zweihander RPG any good? Tell me all about it, zweihander.
     
  15. CRKrueger

    CRKrueger Active Member

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    What's the eta on the hardbound, so far the pdf looks gorgeous.
     
  16. CRKrueger

    CRKrueger Active Member

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    WFRP1 and WFRP2 had a career system, you didn't get levels in a class or just get ranks in a skill, instead you moved through careers as you advanced, with different careers opening up access to different skills or talents you could purchase. The first 4 games in the Fantasy Flight Games 40k RPG's (Dark Heresy, Rogue Trader, Deathwatch, Black Crusade) had similar concepts.

    This method of advancement was always a little wonky, and not even pretending to be balanced, but it had tons of flavor even if it was not always easy to rationalize in game. The WFRP games also had other elements that people found to be issues with the system, like the Whiff Factor/Competency Seesaw(starting PCs are very incompetent, experienced PCs are too competent), Naked Dwarf Syndrome, etc.

    With Only War, the Imperial Guard book, FFG tossed out the career path system for advancement. You have a MOS as a guardsman and you choose certain specialties in which you pay less to advance, but you can advance really in anything you want. It opened up the system.

    Zweihander is basically a WFRP retroclone/heartbreaker designed with the total history of the WFRP system in mind, pulling from the various versions. Everything is designed to play in, if not in the actual Old World, then a similar world where the serial numbers aren't even filed off, they're covered with Scotch Tape. This is a feature, not a bug. The idea behind it is, use the same system, but fix the wonkiness.
    All careers are balanced in that they give the similar number of bonuses.
    Some things are opened so you can buy them regardless.
    What the author considers to be sticking points in WFRP like the Competency Seesaw have been evened out.

    So, it's a What If kind of game. What If WFRP was created today with what we know of 40 years of RPG design? Obviously, this is the author's vision of that. Your vision may not be compatible. I don't think, Doc, that you've experienced the system in any form. You may want to take a look at the free non-illustrated version on DTRPG.
     
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  17. zweihander

    zweihander New Member

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    We're about three weeks out or so. Waiting on the next round of proofs from Lulu and DriveThruRPG.
     
  18. The Butcher

    The Butcher Active Member

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    Yes. Yes, it is. Zweihander kindly gifted me with a PDF copy a few days back and it surpassed all my expectations. The mechanics, the art, the flavor. Kudos to him for putting together this great game.

    This is a perfect run-down. What would you do with it, Krugs? Straight Old World, "scotch tape" or something else enturely? I'm inclined towards "scotch tape" with a few modern additions (like ASoIaF, Black Company, Diablo and The Witcher).
     
  19. CRKrueger

    CRKrueger Active Member

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    Old World is certainly a possibility, although my players really like WFRP1&2. Dark Albion maybe, but Fantastic Heroes and Witchery was my first in line for that one. Scotch Tape is certainly possible. I think if I went that way, Witcher would be a good model, maybe a little Dragon Warriors. Tenbones running Grey Box Forgotten Realms in Savage Worlds got me thinking about the Realms in a way I haven't before, basically a reboot with different setting assumptions. Grim & Perilous Grey Box might be something worth exploring.
    I don't have time for all this. Why don't adults get Summer Vacation? :(
     
  20. TristramEvans

    TristramEvans Moderator Moderator

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    I concur. I'm still going through it, reading what I can each day, thing is huge.
     
  21. The Butcher

    The Butcher Active Member

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    Like Traveller and Runequest, WFRP eluded me for a long time. After years of looking longingly into a copy of WFRP1 at the long-gone FLGS, I only GMed WFRP2 and then only once, 5 years ago IIRC. Everyone who did play loved it. But I'm confident most if not all of the things we enjoyed have been ported over to Zweihander.

    FH&W looks like a great toolbox but I skipped DA because reasons.

    I have yet to pick up Slumbering Ursine Dunes and Fever-Dreaming Marlinko but Slavic-accented OSR sandbox sounds like something that Zweihander would do with gusto.

    Ooh, Dragon Warriors, good one. I'd say the setting ticks all the right boxes.

    Care to elaborate? (Zweihander made me rethink the Old World in a similar manner — it's amazing how fresh it looks when you scrape off the decades of GW canon cruft.)

    I know, right? I was tempted to post an "ideas I want to run some day" thread but I've done it so many times on G+ and over at the 'site that to repost some of these would ideas I've been nursing for years would feel not only repetitive but downright embarassing. :eek:
     
  22. CRKrueger

    CRKrueger Active Member

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    Mainly how a completely different magic system would completely change some of the AD&D assumptions. Savage Worlds even at the highest level is much lower scale than 9th level wizard spells and vorpals, etc. Yeah you could have tanks with hundreds of armor points and rolling handfuls of dice for damage, but for stuff PCs can actually do, the magic is much more low-key. You lower the high end, then you lower Elminster, the Sisters, etc, all the Epic stuff people hate about the Realms, if you even want to use them anymore. Using a lower-powered system with grittier assumptions removes the "Fantasy Canada" element of the North into a more wild and wooly frontier.
     
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  23. CRKrueger

    CRKrueger Active Member

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    Of course now that I'm thinking about it, could use Mythras Classic Fantasy or just straight Mythras, maybe with a little Magic World or BRP Witchcraft.
     
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