Kickstarter sucks.

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Does Kickstarter suck?

  • Yes.

    Votes: 8 11.6%
  • No.

    Votes: 49 71.0%
  • Have a nice day.

    Votes: 12 17.4%

  • Total voters
    69
This is different than a lot of other Kickstarter failures as we seem to have an actual confession of embezzling the money rather than ambiguity as to whether it was simply poor business management.


Yeah, closest one I can think of is this one...



Where at least obvious mental illness was to blame when she decided to flake out on her backers.
 
I'd been thinking of doing a quickstarter for Galaxies in Shadow. It's getting pretty close to done but I'd honestly like a couple bucks out of it. Maybe I'll just sell the pdf. I don't know, I have a grand ambition to do a boxed set of miniatures but it's not really a miniatures game. Really, I've always envisioned it as a blue, cloth bound reference book rather than a glossy art book. But I just find myself feeling it would be better to simply put it out there and run a ransom model for further content or something. Kickstarter just feels like a mess in the making.
 
Another Kickstarter scam emerges...news at 11.
 
Ha. I checked my email this morning, read through the Kamigari updates in it, and then immediately thought of this thread. And here we are...

We'll see. My money's mentally written off now though.
That's another problem I have with KS, this mentality of 'Oh well, moving on'. Essentially forgiving people for scamming and screwing them over potentially out of getting what they paid for.

Of course, the fact that I'm barely solvent at the best of times might be skewing my perception. Anything over 5 bucks is literally expensive to me.
 
That's another problem I have with KS, this mentality of 'Oh well, moving on'. Essentially forgiving people for scamming and screwing them over potentially out of getting what they paid for.

Of course, the fact that I'm barely solvent at the best of times might be skewing my perception. Anything over 5 bucks is literally expensive to me.
After a certain point you have to determine whether it’s worth your time. In a physical store you can yell at a manager. But in KS or Etsy or whatever? If they don’t respond... is it worth your time to put together legal action to recoup $50?
 
Sooo a bunch of people have money to a seemingly known pathologic liar and it's turning out bad? Shocking I say!

Seriously though I'm assuming that pathological liar portion is not actually well known. I'm sorry to see anyone lose their money on a project.

Well, I did not know about it when I backed, that's for sure :tongue:

Another amazing thing in this whole debacle is that most, if not all, of her collaborators did, in fact, knew about it.
You know someone is a pathological liar and you still choose to associate with her in a project where money is exchanging hands?

I'd been thinking of doing a quickstarter for Galaxies in Shadow. It's getting pretty close to done but I'd honestly like a couple bucks out of it. Maybe I'll just sell the pdf. I don't know, I have a grand ambition to do a boxed set of miniatures but it's not really a miniatures game. Really, I've always envisioned it as a blue, cloth bound reference book rather than a glossy art book. But I just find myself feeling it would be better to simply put it out there and run a ransom model for further content or something. Kickstarter just feels like a mess in the making.

If you want pointers on how to properly do a KS, ask Kevin Crawford. The man is a machine, all his KS have delivered on time or early, and he has provided plenty of very sound advice in the past.
The one thing I can tell you: while I don't like the stranglehold that DriveThruRPG has on the market, it is by far your best bet on your first KS. You can have the book ready except for art and layout, use the KS to pay for those, then use DriveThru for the fulfillment. That way you have them solve two massive headaches for you:

A) physical production (if any)
B) worldwide distribution
 
Eh, we hear about and pay attention to the bad ones. For every failure though, I'm sure there are dozens or more that go just as expected. It's gambling, but the odds are weighted in your favour.

I agree with you. I just don’t think anyone should be surprised there are shucksters on Kickstarter.
 
That's another problem I have with KS, this mentality of 'Oh well, moving on'. Essentially forgiving people for scamming and screwing them over potentially out of getting what they paid for.

Of course, the fact that I'm barely solvent at the best of times might be skewing my perception. Anything over 5 bucks is literally expensive to me.

After a certain point you have to determine whether it’s worth your time. In a physical store you can yell at a manager. But in KS or Etsy or whatever? If they don’t respond... is it worth your time to put together legal action to recoup $50?
Exactly.

I'm out USD90.00, apparently (Probably including international shipping) and to be quite honest I'd much rather have that money right now. But I'm also fully aware that there's no mechanism that I can use to get that money back, I'm not even in the same country, and while I could spend my time vilifying the author to the internet that would cost me time and still not get me anything in return, and frankly after a very short length of time people would stop giving a shit what I say on the subject. I don't want to be That Poster.

I think they've got into this position due to ineptness rather than malice, but obviously, that doesn't make it any easier to be out that money.

I certainly haven't forgiven them. I'm raging. There just isn't anything that I can do other than write this post and hope that it all works out okay in the end. Maybe I'll eventually get a book, maybe I won't.
 
Of course, the fact that I'm barely solvent at the best of times might be skewing my perception. Anything over 5 bucks is literally expensive to me.
With all due respect, someone that strapped for cash shouldnt have anything to do with Kickstarter anyway. Kickstarter definitely falls under the "frivolous expenses" category in a budget. Obviously Kickstarter is a terrible decision for someone who would miss the money if lost and I would never recommend it to someone in that position.
 
That's another problem I have with KS, this mentality of 'Oh well, moving on'. Essentially forgiving people for scamming and screwing them over potentially out of getting what they paid for.

Of course, the fact that I'm barely solvent at the best of times might be skewing my perception. Anything over 5 bucks is literally expensive to me.


While I agree with Brock that KS is frivolous spending at best, I don't think it's skewing your perception. People need to be held accountable, and backers need to be forewarned.

Though I've yet to personally get scammed and I strongly advocate due diligence on the part of any backer, there's a reason I call attention to Far West's annual anniversary of failure. People should be kept aware of this stuff, it should be easy for them to be informed investor and it's important they do know the risks. And while I don't think the consequences for failing at a KS should involve harassment or any of the extreme life-ruining that's in vogue for social media pariahs these days, I also think forgiveness is something a person earns, not something they are owed.
 
Exactly.

I'm out USD90.00, apparently (Probably including international shipping) and to be quite honest I'd much rather have that money right now. But I'm also fully aware that there's no mechanism that I can use to get that money back, I'm not even in the same country, and while I could spend my time vilifying the author to the internet that would cost me time and still not get me anything in return, and frankly after a very short length of time people would stop giving a shit what I say on the subject. I don't want to be That Poster.

I think they've got into this position due to ineptness rather than malice, but obviously, that doesn't make it any easier to be out that money.

I certainly haven't forgiven them. I'm raging. There just isn't anything that I can do other than write this post and hope that it all works out okay in the end. Maybe I'll eventually get a book, maybe I won't.
Sometimes the best thing we can do in a situation... Even when we have power... Is to move on.
 
Sometimes the best thing we can do in a situation... Even when we have power... Is to move on.

I think it's a pure individual matter of how much they want to pursue resolution vs how it's affecting them. If it's healthier for them to move on and not obsess, then they need to think of their own well being first. But I don't like it when people advocate for others to make the same choices as them; just as no one is obligated to put themselves out, neither is anyone else obligated to let it go.
 
I think it's a pure individual matter of how much they want to pursue resolution vs how it's affecting them. If it's healthier for them to move on and not obsess, then they need to think of their own well being first. But I don't like it when people advocate for others to make the same choices as them; just as no one is obligated to put themselves out, neither is anyone else obligated to let it go.
I was meaning in general, that sometimes its the best thing we can do. I'm not advocating she drop this, more... sympathizing.

Edit: sorry context gets lost on the net sometimes. I was responding to her saying that she can't really do anything and felt it best to drop it, but was angry. I was trying to offer a little empathy. Been there, it sucks. I'm in no way saying "Just drop it" or the like.
 
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Yeah I noticed that the translator said the project manager lies a lot, very odd to 1. work with that person knowing that and 2. make them the project manager of all things.
 
Yeah I noticed that the translator said the project manager lies a lot, very odd to 1. work with that person knowing that and 2. make them the project manager of all things.
Was it made clear that the translator knew she was a liar prior to the beginning of the project? I figured it was something they have come to learn as it has moved forward.
 
Was it made clear that the translator knew she was a liar prior to the beginning of the project? I figured it was something they have come to learn as it has moved forward.

Well they said that they knew the person would lie and then a few days later if asked again would tell the truth. That suggested to me some longterm experience with the person beyond working on this specific project but perhaps I'm wrong.
 
I do, and happily have never had to deal with this kinda crap. Of course, just a little due diligence on the folks involved and I wouldn't have touched this one with a ten foot pole....
I know, right?
 
I know, right?

Yeah, go on, keep rubbing salt into the wound. Do you want a knife to inflict a few more cuts, while you're at it, you bastards? :tongue:

To be honest, I didn't know any of the names involved at the time, except (David) Olivia Hill. And yeah, that should have been a red flag. Can't remember anymore what I was thinking that day. Probably nothing, and the brain was on holiday. But it's nice to see you can count on the simpathy of the fellows here :grin:
 
Yeah, go on, keep rubbing salt into the wound. Do you want a knife to inflict a few more cuts, while you're at it, you bastards? :tongue:

To be honest, I didn't know any of the names involved at the time, except (David) Olivia Hill. And yeah, that should have been a red flag. Can't remember anymore what I was thinking that day. Probably nothing, and the brain was on holiday. But it's nice to see you can count on the simpathy of the fellows here :grin:

Hell, that’s the only name that rings a bell for me. (The project itself is way outside my wheelhouse, though, so I wouldn’t have been tempted either way.)
 
The "Kickstarter sucks" thread is probably a good spot for this.

Employees: *do legally protected thing*
KS: *fires employees, offers a pittance of a severance if the fired employees sign an NDA and/or a non-disparagement clause*
 
Apparently moderators get a free pass on the "no politics" rule, eh?
 
Yeah, sorry. I think worker’s rights and unionisation cases like this are actually legitimately a political issue.

Let’s just stick to the flaws in Kickstarter as a platform, rather than as an employer.
 
Yeah, sorry. I think worker’s rights and unionisation cases like this are actually legitimately a political issue.

Let’s just stick to the flaws in Kickstarter as a platform, rather than as an employer.

Fair enough, no more talking about KS business practices
 
Apparently moderators get a free pass on the "no politics" rule, eh?

Everybody can slip up from time to time. Even though he’s a mod, Tristram’s one of last people here anyone should be worried about posting “accidentally” about politics.
 
Jasco Games got the rights to Evil Dead 2 after the previous board game company failed to fulfill. If their Kickstarter funds, everyone who backed the ORIGINAL Kickstarter will ALSO get a copy of their version.
Just took a peek and I'm torn. I like what they're doing and I love Evil Dead. But the price tag for the game and extras is not tiny ($89) and the minis looks kind of mediocre. Are the mechanics supposed to be especially good? I already have too many boardgames though I haven't picked up a new one in a couple years.
 
Just took a peek and I'm torn. I like what they're doing and I love Evil Dead. But the price tag for the game and extras is not tiny ($89) and the minis looks kind of mediocre. Are the mechanics supposed to be especially good? I already have too many boardgames though I haven't picked up a new one in a couple years.

The 3 player minimum is a killer for me, and I’m not a huge Evil Dead guy anyway. I’m not blown away by the studio designing it (Lynnvander) either. I just thought it was admirable of them to try to rescue someone else’s campaign for those backers. I nearly backed for that reason.
 
The 3 player minimum is a killer for me,

I'm not interested in the game in question, but just wanted to say the whole 3 player minimum trend has killed quite a few games for me that I would otherwise have happily picked up.

But in relation to the thread topic, today I think Kickstarter sucks. It's not because I've been scammed or anything. I've just been reflecting and have grown to think it's kind of stupid. I have some regret for the last few I backed. I should have just waited for retail. There was never any danger of the things I backed not reaching retail.

As far as I'm concerned, Kickstarter is just a pre-order storefront. I'm not really wanting to argue it or try to convince anyone otherwise.
 
I never made that association before....

Kickstarters are kind of just a continuation of current trends to rush something out and make money then polish it later and charge for dlcs.

Just a different platform with stretch goals, backer rewards, and so on.

I miss polished products being a thing. Ultima 9 stood out because a patch broke our saves. It was a sin then. Now thats normal. As are errata sheets the size of booklets.
 
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