Over in the Gangbusters B/X topic, I sort of went off on a tangent of my personal ranking of how memorable the various TSR RPGs were, with a focus on the TSR not-D&D games. Unsurprisingly, some people found issue with some of my rankings. No biggie.
But there were a few remarks which I found pretty interesting.
Some objected to me placing the Buck Rogers XXVc game above the games I considered at the bottom of the memory hole. Admittedly, I ranked it that high mainly because it tends to come up a lot in discussions about how "TSR was a failure" and the "villainy and witchery" of Lorraine Williams. Even still, I recall a time around 1990 where if you shopped for RPGs the Buck Rogers stuff was just as prevalent as AD&D2e stuff. It was even in the chain bookstores as they were in the process of phasing out their RPG sections. It wasn't just the base set either. It had what felt like a multitude of supplements. Looking back, it basically had about a dozen supplements (including an Axis & Allies style boardgame) which were extremely well distributed and prevalent at the time.
But I do think there was an element of "blink and you'll miss it" with regards to Buck Rogers XXVc. Copyright dates indicate it was supported for a couple of years, but my recollection is that it was on store shelves around 1990 and then just disappeared. This was probably due to the chain bookstores around me giving up on RPGs other than D&D more than anything else.
The followup Buck Rogers High Adventures Cliffhangers is the one that's truly obscure to me. I've never seen it in person. It seems much more of a blink and you'll miss it game, only supported by a single boxed set and supplement in 1993 (the tail end of the XXVc game).
But Buck Rogers XXVc is pretty interesting. It's AD&D2e in space. As I was never too fond of Star Frontiers, I always thought XXVc was the sci-fi/space opera game that TSR should have made in the first place. It's certainly not perfect, and has some stuff that I think should be ironed out, but I think it was a good idea for TSR's space game to be a D&D variant. I would hve been far more hyped for it in 1983 than in 1990. But in retrospect, it's clunky, but good. OSR fans should definitely check it out.
XXVc does have something which I consider a flaw that affects a lot of other TSR stuff around that timeframe, especially box sets. The presentation is very... childish. I don't know how else to describe it. TSR was using a lot of big fonts and very simple art with really bright colors. There were lots of inserts which really didn't add anything. XXVc, Spelljammer, and Dragon Mountain all have this same quality of just having components that look like some kind of warped Little Golden Book. Anyone else get this feeling?
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Someone brought up Top Secret S.I. My recollection of that game was it was one of TSR's least supported games. I recall seeing an early edition of the game in KayBee or Circus World, already opened. I also recall seeing an article in Dragon Magazine which characterized the game not as playing James Bond, but as a very "realistic" game where you played those kinds of operatives that James Bond meets and which die during the course of the movie. Top Secret didn't sound at all interesting at the time.
That was the previous edition. I only recall seeing the S.I. edition once in Waldenbooks. I only ever saw the core box set. It was still shrinked, so I couldn't check it out further. It sat there in the store for years until they removed their RPG section. I never saw any supplements for it. Other than that, I remember seeing the full page cover ads in Dragon. That was about it. I never knew anyone who played it or the earlier version.
When it was mentioned here and said to be far more prevalent and popular than my experience indicated, I got curious and looked it up. I had thought this game was like Boot Hill 3e or Buck Rogers Cliffhangers. I thought it was a case of TSR unceremoniously plunking down the core set and then forgetting about it. Instead, I found out it was much more like XXVc with about a dozen products created in the last couple of years of the 80s. More than that, it was a much broader game than the title would lead me to believe. It wasn't just spies, but it also had material to use the system for pulp, cyberpunk, and mercenaries. One could say it was a system for running Mercenaries, Spies, & Private Eyes. ;)
So I had to find a PDF and check out this system. And...
I don't know what it is, but I found this game extremely accessible and inviting. Normally I need some art to suck me in, and Top Secret S.I. wasn't anywhere near being impressive with art as pieces are sparse and throwaway. Regardless, I found the text very inviting and well written. I think it was about as much a page turner as one could call an RPG rulebook. As I read this, I realized I wanted to give this game a go.
I'm not sure what I would have thought of this game back in 1987-90. In the sense of providing an accessible generic modern action RPG, it seems to be delivering exactly what I was looking for. On the other hand, I've never been too keen on percentile systems. Percentile systems just rub me the wrong way for whatever reason. Plus, at the time when S.I. was new, I was firmly in the grip of mecha gaming fever, as well as diving into the horror pit which was Palladium.
But my opinion right now? It's extremely accessible. It seems fairly versatile. It aligns with my classic game desires. The covers are fairly evocative. I think I like it. I might be a Top Secret convert.
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Anyone else have some thoughts/recollections about some of the more obscure TSR games (not D&D/AD&D)? Hell, maybe even D&D qualifies, because there were some oddball boxed D&D sets that TSR did in the 90s ranging from those giant Heroscape style sets to the beginner set done at the end of the 90s right before the sale to WotC.
But there were a few remarks which I found pretty interesting.
Some objected to me placing the Buck Rogers XXVc game above the games I considered at the bottom of the memory hole. Admittedly, I ranked it that high mainly because it tends to come up a lot in discussions about how "TSR was a failure" and the "villainy and witchery" of Lorraine Williams. Even still, I recall a time around 1990 where if you shopped for RPGs the Buck Rogers stuff was just as prevalent as AD&D2e stuff. It was even in the chain bookstores as they were in the process of phasing out their RPG sections. It wasn't just the base set either. It had what felt like a multitude of supplements. Looking back, it basically had about a dozen supplements (including an Axis & Allies style boardgame) which were extremely well distributed and prevalent at the time.
But I do think there was an element of "blink and you'll miss it" with regards to Buck Rogers XXVc. Copyright dates indicate it was supported for a couple of years, but my recollection is that it was on store shelves around 1990 and then just disappeared. This was probably due to the chain bookstores around me giving up on RPGs other than D&D more than anything else.
The followup Buck Rogers High Adventures Cliffhangers is the one that's truly obscure to me. I've never seen it in person. It seems much more of a blink and you'll miss it game, only supported by a single boxed set and supplement in 1993 (the tail end of the XXVc game).
But Buck Rogers XXVc is pretty interesting. It's AD&D2e in space. As I was never too fond of Star Frontiers, I always thought XXVc was the sci-fi/space opera game that TSR should have made in the first place. It's certainly not perfect, and has some stuff that I think should be ironed out, but I think it was a good idea for TSR's space game to be a D&D variant. I would hve been far more hyped for it in 1983 than in 1990. But in retrospect, it's clunky, but good. OSR fans should definitely check it out.
XXVc does have something which I consider a flaw that affects a lot of other TSR stuff around that timeframe, especially box sets. The presentation is very... childish. I don't know how else to describe it. TSR was using a lot of big fonts and very simple art with really bright colors. There were lots of inserts which really didn't add anything. XXVc, Spelljammer, and Dragon Mountain all have this same quality of just having components that look like some kind of warped Little Golden Book. Anyone else get this feeling?
---
Someone brought up Top Secret S.I. My recollection of that game was it was one of TSR's least supported games. I recall seeing an early edition of the game in KayBee or Circus World, already opened. I also recall seeing an article in Dragon Magazine which characterized the game not as playing James Bond, but as a very "realistic" game where you played those kinds of operatives that James Bond meets and which die during the course of the movie. Top Secret didn't sound at all interesting at the time.
That was the previous edition. I only recall seeing the S.I. edition once in Waldenbooks. I only ever saw the core box set. It was still shrinked, so I couldn't check it out further. It sat there in the store for years until they removed their RPG section. I never saw any supplements for it. Other than that, I remember seeing the full page cover ads in Dragon. That was about it. I never knew anyone who played it or the earlier version.
When it was mentioned here and said to be far more prevalent and popular than my experience indicated, I got curious and looked it up. I had thought this game was like Boot Hill 3e or Buck Rogers Cliffhangers. I thought it was a case of TSR unceremoniously plunking down the core set and then forgetting about it. Instead, I found out it was much more like XXVc with about a dozen products created in the last couple of years of the 80s. More than that, it was a much broader game than the title would lead me to believe. It wasn't just spies, but it also had material to use the system for pulp, cyberpunk, and mercenaries. One could say it was a system for running Mercenaries, Spies, & Private Eyes. ;)
So I had to find a PDF and check out this system. And...
I don't know what it is, but I found this game extremely accessible and inviting. Normally I need some art to suck me in, and Top Secret S.I. wasn't anywhere near being impressive with art as pieces are sparse and throwaway. Regardless, I found the text very inviting and well written. I think it was about as much a page turner as one could call an RPG rulebook. As I read this, I realized I wanted to give this game a go.
I'm not sure what I would have thought of this game back in 1987-90. In the sense of providing an accessible generic modern action RPG, it seems to be delivering exactly what I was looking for. On the other hand, I've never been too keen on percentile systems. Percentile systems just rub me the wrong way for whatever reason. Plus, at the time when S.I. was new, I was firmly in the grip of mecha gaming fever, as well as diving into the horror pit which was Palladium.
But my opinion right now? It's extremely accessible. It seems fairly versatile. It aligns with my classic game desires. The covers are fairly evocative. I think I like it. I might be a Top Secret convert.
----
Anyone else have some thoughts/recollections about some of the more obscure TSR games (not D&D/AD&D)? Hell, maybe even D&D qualifies, because there were some oddball boxed D&D sets that TSR did in the 90s ranging from those giant Heroscape style sets to the beginner set done at the end of the 90s right before the sale to WotC.