Dumarest
Vaquero de Alta California
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But 2001, OTOH, is seriously one of the best films ever made.
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But 2001, OTOH, is seriously one of the best films ever made.
Ridley Scott is an odd duck. He's not really bothered about scripts and figures, if you hire good actors and then let them do their thing, you'll get great performances. He's made a lot of bad movies, but never a bad looking one. Wow, can he force a frame and he works wonders with a smoke machine, a spotlight and shadows.Prometheus, especially, gets a lot of hate it doesn't deserve. Damon Lindelof's 'novel' approach to storytelling means that fan edits are better than the cinematic cut.
Both movies are beautiful. Scott's eye for visual storytelling remains as strong as ever. Sadly, neither script was as strong as it needed to be. Most people wanted another Aliens action movie. Scott wanted to explore the Engineers and A.I.
2001's a weird movie from my childhood. I wanted to see it as a kid because my dad said it had a supercomputer killing people off. Half way through I was absolutely bored to tears by it and I desperately wanted to do something else, but Dad said "No you've got to finish the whole movie!". The scene near the end where the astronaut is outside the ship in his suit trying to get back in, and it's about 5 minutes of just listening to him breathing drove me nuts as a kid.
This bad experience has led me to be hesitant to watch it again.
Part of me wonders if it's better to watch as an adult, another part of me is afraid that it's still boring.
Ridley Scott is an odd duck. He's not really bothered about scripts and figures, if you hire good actors and then let them do their thing, you'll get great performances. He's made a lot of bad movies, but never a bad looking one. Wow, can he force a frame and he works wonders with a smoke machine, a spotlight and shadows.
I've said for years, it's almost as if the good films he made, he made by accident. He lucked into a good script, did his design homework and came in on time and under budget.
He's directed some duds, but also some of my favorite films. He is absolutely a visual director, and the strength of the story or character rests on the screenplay writer. Unfortunately, for Prometheus, that was Damon Lindelof, who must possess incriminating photographs to explain his continued employment in the industry.
Except Lindelof has done some of the most brilliant stuff of the last decade! Even for those who don't care for Prometheus or are frustrated with what happened on LOST, it's hard to deny both the critical and public acclaim for both The Leftovers and Watchmen, two absolutely brilliant shows that he did amazing work on.
It's not that I'm a fan. Some of those you mentioned were not great. But it's kind of hard to argue with success, and awards like ones from the Writer's Guild of America would suggest he's not just some incompetent hack.You're clearly a fan and I am absolutely not, which is fine. I haven't watched The Leftovers, but might get around to it one day. Everything else he has written I have disliked immensely. Lost, Star Trek Into Darkness, Cowboys Vs. Aliens, Tomorrowland and World War Z... Not exactly towering works of brilliance.
I like Alien and Aliens. But, I've ways felt that the line, "Get away from her, you bitch!" from Aliens was one of the stupidest, tacked-on, pandering and terrible bits of dialogue ever put in a film. I literally felt embarassed watching it. I know everyone loves it, I've only ever talked to one other person who felt the same way about it as I did. Unfortunately, it worked for James Cameron, leading him to make a whole slew of utterly shit movies.
But, then, I like 2001 as well. I get why people don't. But I do.
It's not that I'm a fan. Some of those you mentioned were not great. But it's kind of hard to argue with success, and awards like ones from the Writer's Guild of America would suggest he's not just some incompetent hack.
I'm not a fan of Aliens, great action scenes but clumsy characterization and a sentimentality that is completely inappropriate to the tone/world of the original film. I feel the same way about Cameron's T2 compared to T1. I think The Abyss is the best combo of sentiment and character by Cameron.
Someone else who prefers The Terminator to Judgement Day!
Heh, we had similar experiences as children. My family made a big deal of it (grandfather was an engineer for JPL) but as far as child me was concerned, 2001 consisted of awful stretches of tedium punctuated by a handful of interesting scenes; we get it, space is vast, boring, and lonely. I have not seen 2001 as an adult but wonder the same thing, is it still boring? I will grab some beers and try to watch it over the weekend. If I can stream it legally, I'll get back to you.2001's a weird movie from my childhood. I wanted to see it as a kid because my dad said it had a supercomputer killing people off. Half way through I was absolutely bored to tears by it and I desperately wanted to do something else, but Dad said "No you've got to finish the whole movie!". The scene near the end where the astronaut is outside the ship in his suit trying to get back in, and it's about 5 minutes of just listening to him breathing drove me nuts as a kid.
This bad experience has led me to be hesitant to watch it again.
Part of me wonders if it's better to watch as an adult, another part of me is afraid that it's still boring.
It isn't that rare an opinion outside of internet fandom, David Foster Wallace wrote a well known essay that sums up most of my issues with T2 as does Sean French's excellent book on T1 for BFI Classics.
I've seen consensus on Alien/Aliens swing towards Alien over time and expect the same to happen over time with T1/T2, if it hasn't already happened.
I'm not that familiar with Lindelof's work but Watchmen was excellent and I've heard very good things about The Leftovers.
One thing I liked about the comics, it's also in earlier Prometheus and Covnenant scripts and as I'll get to later the RPG hints at it, is that the aliens might not necessarily be completely natural. Not in the sense of being created by the Engineers, but that the Engineers found the aliens and worship them as a manifestation of some aspect of the universe.Aliens added to the lore of Alien in ways I dislike. Making an ever-changing and malevolent creature into a hive of easily-killed bugs served the film well, but reduced the titular creature's mystique and threat
I do wonder why Alien: Resurrection is ignored. I guess the Predator license prevents the inclusion of the AVP films and comics, but why not Resurrection? Unless the answer is simply good taste.
I do wonder why Alien: Resurrection is ignored. I guess the Predator license prevents the inclusion of the AVP films and comics, but why not Resurrection? Unless the answer is simply good taste.
Skywalker already gave the answer that I was thinking. As for Predator, I'm glad they kept that out, at least in the core book. The prop cameo in Predator 2 was cute, but I think Predators are just way too pulpy for the Alienverse. I say that as someone that likes pulpiness.The game does as good a job as I could hope given the novels, comics, video games and movies all present different interpretations of the Alien universe and the creature itself.
I do wonder why Alien: Resurrection is ignored. I guess the Predator license prevents the inclusion of the AVP films and comics, but why not Resurrection? Unless the answer is simply good taste.
It isn't that rare an opinion outside of internet fandom, David Foster Wallace wrote a well known essay that sums up most of my issues with T2 as does Sean French's excellent book on T1 for BFI Classics.
I think there's a way to do Aliens and Predators together well, but it wasn't any of the films.
The two AVP films soured my on the idea of them existing in a shared universe. I enjoyed the Dark Horse comics back in the day, but it is, ultimately, a gimmicky crossover based on a 'blink and you'll miss it' gag from Predator 2, perhaps not the best reason to repeatedly mash these franchises together.
Yeah, it was the Dark Horse comics that I really enjoyed, but the stark contrast between those and the approaches of the films shows the completely different approach - the comics were deeply introspective, often philosophical stories, in many cases told from the Predator's PoV or done completely visually without the imposition of a human perspective. There seemed to be a religious undercurrent to those stories, that reminded me of European scifi comics. In a way, I find them closer to the Alien prequels in tone.
I don't remember much about the AvP films. I recall hating the first one, and that it was directed by the Resident Evil series guy. I may not have even seen the second one, as I couldn't tell you a single thing about it. I thought switching the setting to contemporary Earth was the hugest mis-step.
I don't personally mind the two sharing the same universe. I just think Hollywood doesn't know what to do with either property, I love Alien, I thought Aliens was a fun action film, but very much it's own thing (and yeah, the addition of a "queen" to the lifecycle made no sense), and at that point I think they exhausted the concept of the xenomorph. I know the difficulties surrounding Alien 3 that led to the theatrical cut being very different than what the director wanted, but even having seen the not-quite-Director's cut, I think it's still just a bad film that has nothing new to offer except a watered-down retread of the original. The 4th one was just so stupid, and I could not understand why they were bending over backwards to bring back Ripley. Predator 2 is a guilty pleasure, again a very goofy action film that doesn't really compare to the original, but I disliked Predators and everything I heard convinced me not to see the most recent one.
What I like most about the Prequels is of how little importance the Xenomorphs are to the plots. I know that hurt the audience reaction for Prometheus, who went in expection a Xenomorph film, but then I think the Xenomorph parts at the end of Covenant are a let down compared to an otherwise awesome "House of Frankenstein in Space" horror flick with an insane android. I think the vision of the future that Scott established in Aliens and fleshed out in Prometheus and Covenant is actually sufficiently interesting on it's own without the need to focus on the xenomorphs. And that's why I guess I don't mind the Predators being a part of that setting, because they fit this hostile universe halfway between Christian myth and Lovecraftian mythos where humans are just trying to be humans in a cold and vicious frontier. I see it as the anti-Star Trek, where expanding out into the universe, we don't find a bunch of other pseudo-humans with civilizations like ours, instead we just find that humanity is on the bottom of a much larger food chain we don't yet understand. This is why I would rather have more "Aliens" movies without any Aliens, or where they are allowed to be incidental to the plot. Because otherwise I can't see what you could really do with them except remake Alien again, or remake Aliens again.
If I were to do a Predators vs Aliens film, I'd do it without any humans. I know Hollywood could never accept that sort of thing though, convinced as they are audiences need their hands held with a PoV etsy.
I only have the .pdf version of Destroyer of Worlds, and I don't enjoy reading large digital documents, so I had only glanced through it. I'll have a look for the proto-Ryder when I receive my physical copy.
I have come to like Alien 3 a lot more over time. With the extended cut, I think it makes a good end to the original trilogy.
My speculation is only based on the portrait for the NPC:
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Audible relesed an adaption of William Gibson's original script for Alien 3 this year - has anyone here listened to it?
I have read the graphic novel and it’s not good. It’s got some ideas in common with Resurrection and seems to think the best way forward is to do Aliens but on a grander scale.Audible relesed an adaption of William Gibson's original script for Alien 3 this year - has anyone here listened to it?
That's been my feeling going all the way back to the '80s. I generally hate it when sequels are a retread of the plot of the original. The first two Alien movies gave us a sinister corporation, space marines, remnants of alien civilizations. There were plenty of things to do in the setting besides fighting bugs again.What I like most about the Prequels is of how little importance the Xenomorphs are to the plots. I know that hurt the audience reaction for Prometheus, who went in expection a Xenomorph film, but then I think the Xenomorph parts at the end of Covenant are a let down compared to an otherwise awesome "House of Frankenstein in Space" horror flick with an insane android. I think the vision of the future that Scott established in Aliens and fleshed out in Prometheus and Covenant is actually sufficiently interesting on it's own without the need to focus on the xenomorphs. And that's why I guess I don't mind the Predators being a part of that setting, because they fit this hostile universe halfway between Christian myth and Lovecraftian mythos where humans are just trying to be humans in a cold and vicious frontier. I see it as the anti-Star Trek, where expanding out into the universe, we don't find a bunch of other pseudo-humans with civilizations like ours, instead we just find that humanity is on the bottom of a much larger food chain we don't yet understand. This is why I would rather have more "Aliens" movies without any Aliens, or where they are allowed to be incidental to the plot. Because otherwise I can't see what you could really do with them except remake Alien again, or remake Aliens again.
I had a copy of the screenplay back before a third movie was even made. I don't know if it was the first or second draft. It was set on an idealistic space station where elements of the leadership had been making deal with the corporation in return for funding, which leads to alien eggs ending up onboard and all hell breaking loose. My memories of it are extremely vague. I think the biggest novelty it added was aliens that burst from animals.Audible relesed an adaption of William Gibson's original script for Alien 3 this year - has anyone here listened to it?