WEG Star Wars

[Gabriel]

If I remember the Jedi was much better at parrying, which, logically, would chop most other weapons in half. I seem to remember doing a lot of parrying anyway.

My recollection is that you add your Sense skill to your existing Lightsaber skill to parry.

Considering you need at least a 6d lightsaber skill just to have a reasonable chance of hitting the base difficulty.... Then you add in even a minimal 2d or 3d Sense. Iron fortress.

 

[TristramEvans]

pg.49 - "the only thing that can parry a lightsaber is another lightsaber"

 

[Chris Brady]

I remember high health aliens were able to eat blaster bolts, a little too easily. Like Wookkies.

 

[Gabriel]

pg.49 - "the only thing that can parry a lightsaber is another lightsaber"

So once you have 7d lightsaber, able to hit that 20 base reliably, and maybe 3d or 4d in Sense for your blaster defense rolls, you are god in 1e without Rules Upgrade.

Oh, and add Control to lightsaber damage.

Obviously I need to haul out Star Wars D6 and read it again. It has clearly been too long.

 

[Endless Flight]

You can use melee parry against a lightsaber. A failure could mean your weapon is cleaved in half or if it is made from Beskar or another lightsaber resistant substance, maybe not.

The difficulty of 20 is the difficulty to hit unless the defending character decides to parry, in which case the Parry roll is taken over the 20. If a character does nothing but parry the whole round (no other actions), the defense roll is added to the 20.

 

[TristramEvans]

 

[Baulderstone]

For some reason I got a notification that you were quoting me in this post. TristramEvans Endless Flight Baulderstone just an FYI something might be wonky under the hood

It was because he quoted you, then edited the quote out of the post.

 

[Endless Flight]

The book was written before any other weapons had been deemed lightsaber resistant in later works. Beskar weapons, electro-staffs used by Magnaguards, and the weapons used by Praetorian Guards are all capable weapons. If you use any canon after the original trilogy, be aware.

 

[Gabriel]

The difficulty of 20 is the difficulty to hit unless the defending character decides to parry, in which case the Parry roll is taken over the 20. If a character does nothing but parry the whole round (no other actions), the defense roll is added to the 20.

Yeah, that is the rule from Rules Upgrade and from 2e.

But one of the things I do clearly recall about base/original 1e is that even reaction defenses add to the base difficulty instead of replacing the base difficulty. Effectively, all defenses in original 1e were played as Reactive but functioned in terms of rules as Full Defenses.

 

[Endless Flight]

Yeah, that is the rule from Rules Upgrade and from 2e.

But one of the things I do clearly recall about base/original 1e is that even reaction defenses add to the base difficulty instead of replacing the base difficulty. Effectively, all defenses in original 1e were played as Reactive but functioned in terms of rules as Full Defenses.

I wouldn’t use those rules as written.

I like how you take a chance when using the defensive roll. If you roll higher than the base weapon difficulty, great! If you roll lower, then maybe your character zigged instead of zagged. Or you mistimed your parry.

 

[Gabriel]

I wouldn’t use those rules as written.

I like how you take a chance when using the defensive roll. If you roll higher than the base weapon difficulty, great! If you roll lower, then maybe your character zigged instead of zagged. Or you mistimed your parry.

Fair enough.

 

[Endless Flight]

I mean, you can use it, but there will be a big whiff factor. Depends on if you want the game to be dangerous to the PCs if they really don’t have to use full dodge at all. I’m of the opinion that 2e is the best set of rules for the game. A lot of people disagree!

 

[Stevethulhu]

I'm thinking of ditching the Sense, Control and Alter trinity on favour of The Force, or Use The Force. With a number kf dice in the Force 'trait' equal to the number of dice thw tempted had in the Big 3.

Seems reasonable to me. Have I missed anything obvious?

 

[Gabriel]

I mean, you can use it, but there will be a big whiff factor. Depends on if you want the game to be dangerous to the PCs if they really don’t have to use full dodge at all. I’m of the opinion that 2e is the best set of rules for the game. A lot of people disagree!

If my previous post was interpreted as "pfft.. whatever" It wasn't meant that way. I meant it as enthusiastic nodding in agreement.

As you point out, they both result in very different feels in how things work. What limited experience I have with it is that the original 1e way results in something that feels more like the movies, but it does rely on players being of a mindset not to mechanically flout that. The Upgrade and 2e way is probably more balanced, but it's also balanced against a fairly serious injury system. 5d blasters against 3d Strength hurt.

 

[Endless Flight]

If my previous post was interpreted as "pfft.. whatever" It wasn't meant that way. I meant it as enthusiastic nodding in agreement.

As you point out, they both result in very different feels in how things work. What limited experience I have with it is that the original 1e way results in something that feels more like the movies, but it does rely on players being of a mindset not to mechanically flout that. The Upgrade and 2e way is probably more balanced, but it's also balanced against a fairly serious injury system. 5d blasters against 3d Strength hurt.

Oh no, it wasn’t that. I just didn’t want to dismiss your enthusiasm of 1e, if that’s what you want to run. The great thing about D6 is it’s easily hackable and you can mix and match rules to your liking without breaking the system. It’s probably one of my two favorite systems so I love it all.

 

[Endless Flight]

I'm thinking of ditching the Sense, Control and Alter trinity on favour of The Force, or Use The Force. With a number kf dice in the Force 'trait' equal to the number of dice thw tempted had in the Big 3.

Seems reasonable to me. Have I missed anything obvious?

What you can do is have Use the Force as an attribute and then the three as skills under that. The players using Jedi will start out a bit stronger and don’t have to make huge expenditures on attribute dice instead of skill dice to upgrade. It makes it so you don’t have to change any other rules.

 

[Chris Brady]

Oh no, it wasn’t that. I just didn’t want to dismiss your enthusiasm of 1e, if that’s what you want to run. The great thing about D6 is it’s easily hackable and you can mix and match rules to your liking without breaking the system. It’s probably one of my two favorite systems so I love it all.

It's also why I still drag my books out and reread them. Beside the fact that the lore that they were building was clearly in line with the OT (in fact, they show more respect for it than I have ever expected from ANY fandom), the rules system was my perfect level of modification.

 

[TristramEvans]

I'm thinking of ditching the Sense, Control and Alter trinity on favour of The Force, or Use The Force. With a number kf dice in the Force 'trait' equal to the number of dice thw tempted had in the Big 3.

Seems reasonable to me. Have I missed anything obvious?

Well, if youre going to give players unfettered access to all of those abilities, Id probaby strongly adjust the advancement rules

 

[Gabriel]

Since I'm sperging over SWd61e today...

I remember being amazed with the starfighter combat rules when the game was released. Even now, I can't help but feel they're so cool. But looking back, I'm not sure what I felt was so extraordinary about them.

I guess one thing to keep in mind is that it was 1987. Vehicle combat rules were stuff like the Star Frontiers hexgrid stuff on the simple end and Star Fleet Battles on the other end. Starfighter combat rules were things involving check off grids and hexgrid movement, and usually didn't feel very cinematic. I had owned Robotech 1e for a year at that point, but hadn't even begun playing it seriously yet. I don't recall if I had Mekton II at that point, but even if I did, I wasn't very familiar with it. And I think it's safe to say in that context that the starfighter combat in SWd61e was absolutely revolutionary.

It was the same rules as fighting with characters. It had that same cinematic flair. I dunno. When it gets down to it, the mechanics are just a lot of contested style rolls. But the way it was presented... Like everything else it just oozed Star Wars, especially for the time.

 

[CRKrueger]

What do you guys think of the REUP (Revised, Expanded, and Updated) version?

 

[TristramEvans]

What do you guys think of the REUP (Revised, Expanded, and Updated) version?

It is to Star Wars as Thrash is to Streetfighter: The Storyteling Game

 

[Trippy]

What do you guys think of the REUP (Revised, Expanded, and Updated) version?

I think it has a questionable legality, which does need to be said. As a product, it does highlight FFG’s policy of not producing PDF copy of their Star Wars RPG, leaving a niche market for others to exploit, which probably also needs to be said.

I mean, its OK, and obviously the work of passionate and committed fans. For me, the expansion from the original edition is only relevant in as much as you really needed at least two books to get setting information with the original edition. With the expanded edition you don’t. If it was published as commercial product, however, I wouldn’t feel the need to upgrade especially. I like the simplicity of the original edition.

 

[Endless Flight]

REUP is too bloated.

192 pages is the most you need for a core rule book. You do all the trilogy sourcebooks separately.

The WEG Special Edition Trilogy Sourcebook is one of my favorite RPG products ever. Has that beautiful Drew Struzan cover!

 

[Baulderstone]

Since I'm sperging over SWd61e today...

I remember being amazed with the starfighter combat rules when the game was released. Even now, I can't help but feel they're so cool. But looking back, I'm not sure what I felt was so extraordinary about them.

I guess one thing to keep in mind is that it was 1987. Vehicle combat rules were stuff like the Star Frontiers hexgrid stuff on the simple end and Star Fleet Battles on the other end. Starfighter combat rules were things involving check off grids and hexgrid movement, and usually didn't feel very cinematic. I had owned Robotech 1e for a year at that point, but hadn't even begun playing it seriously yet. I don't recall if I had Mekton II at that point, but even if I did, I wasn't very familiar with it. And I think it's safe to say in that context that the starfighter combat in SWd61e was absolutely revolutionary.

It was the same rules as fighting with characters. It had that same cinematic flair. I dunno. When it gets down to it, the mechanics are just a lot of contested style rolls. But the way it was presented... Like everything else it just oozed Star Wars, especially for the time.

Yes, it doesn't seem that special now, but it was absolutely amazing then. Prior to that, my vehicle experience in RPGs was mostly Star Frontiers, Twilight:2000 and Road Hogs. Vehicle combat always felt like taking off your RPG hat for an hour or two to play a tactical board game. With Star Wars d6, I could have an unexpected speeder bike chase or space combat break out during a session and have it resolve as quickly and easily any other combat. And that's saying a lot as D6 combat was already easy to handle by the standards of the time.

As you say, it's just contested rolls, but the idea that you were allowed to resolve vehicle combat that simply was a huge revelation to me at the time.

 

[Trippy]

It’s interesting that nobody mentions a comparison to Traveller’s space combat at the time - which also involved miniatures, maps and vectors which I still find fascinating.

In fact, a lot of the 1st Edition WEG Star Wars RPG looks quite similar to Traveller in a way - it still used D6s, was skill based and had ship profiles etc - but where everything was made simpler, faster and more cinematic in approach. While some die hard Traveller fans persevered with the notion that they preferred their sci-fi to be hard, it is noticeable that the Traveller (following on with Mega Traveller) sales definitely went significantly down in the shadow of Star Wars RPG’s release. I don’t think Traveller ever recovered their ‘market leader for sci-fi RPG’ status after 1987. That, and Cyberpunk came out the next year which made Traveller’s classic sci-fi seem a little stuffy and old fashioned at the time.

Of course, the more recent version of Mongoose Traveller now has a more abstracted, Star Wars-like space combat - so I guess we can see an influence. You can also see the possibility of integrating cyberwear and punkish ideas into the background also - its all come full circle, really.

 

[Voros]

There was a good PbtA SW hack that I found on G+, ah found it here.

There is also a good fan designed supplement for Rogue One for 2e WEG SW that I also discovered back during the G+ days.

AND there is a Black Hack for SW, Hack Wars which is pretty sweet but I can't find a link yet.

 

[Stevethulhu]

Well, if youre going to give players unfettered access to all of those abilities, Id probaby strongly adjust the advancement rules

I don't know about unfettered access. I was mostly thinking of streamlining the amount of skills that suck dice up for starting PCs. And making the Force a bit less cluttered.

Which i guess would also mean dropping a bunch of powers.

 

[Endless Flight]

I never thought 7D was enough for starting characters. It should be at least 10D, maybe even 14D for somewhat experienced characters who’ve maybe been from “one side of the galaxy to the other” once or twice.

 

[SavAce]

It is to Star Wars as Thrash is to Streetfighter: The Storyteling Game

This is the kind of forum where you can make analogies involving super obscure 20 year old RPGs self-published to pdf out of a poorly formatted Word document in response to a question about Star Wars RPGs and expect some portion of your audience to totally understand what you're talking about!

 

[Stan]

How do most people handle initiative in WEG Star Wars? I've noticed a few differences in the rules versions and am curious what works best for people.

I pulled out some of my old stuff. I had come to Stars Wars gaming a bit late and we used 2e revised and expanded. It had all the cool chrome - skill specialization, character points, exploding dice, etc. I can see why I thought that was cool at the time but it feels more like clutter now.

One thing that I've always done with Stars Wars is stay away from the main story line - I don't wanna be Luke's friend fighting Vader's cousin or constantly reference 'what really happened.' That was part of the appeal of Knights of the Old Republic. Now, I think I might try the time of The Mandalorian (but in a different part of the galaxy). There's imperial elements but they're not galaxy wide. Much of the equipment would be familiar to people. There's gotta be whole regions with power vacuums that the New Republic is too besieged to get to.

 

[Gabriel]

How do most people handle initiative in WEG Star Wars? I've noticed a few differences in the rules versions and am curious what works best for people.

The way the core rules treat it, it's sort of seen as not mattering overly much. If it's ever relevant, the rules say that the highest roll goes first.

I think the intent is just to go around the table. The high roll going first thing seems only suited towards Han vs Greedo bits. I think it's pretty fair to just say PCs go first unless the bad guys have the drop on them.

Rules Upgrade added "Haste Actions" and all kinds of other stuff. So if you took a Haste Action you'd act in an earlier "phase" than someone else who hadn't taken such an action. It made my head hurt to read that section.

 

[CRKrueger]

It is to Star Wars as Thrash is to Streetfighter: The Storyteling Game

I don’t know what that means.

 

[Endless Flight]

The best initiative rules are in 2e (blue Vader cover). You had to announce it you were saving any actions for defensive reactions. If you didn’t need them, they were lost.

 

[SavAce]

I don’t know what that means.

While WEG Star Wars and REUP are both from the same rules base, and Thrash & Street Fighter have completely different systems from each other, I think the basic idea is that both REUP & Thrash add a lot of fiddliness, complication and detail that pile up and kinda detract from the core magic of the respective predecessor games (WEG SW 1e being a pretty trim ~130 pg.).

 

[Stevethulhu]

How do most people handle initiative in WEG Star Wars? I've noticed a few differences in the rules versions and am curious what works best for people.

I pulled out some of my old stuff. I had come to Stars Wars gaming a bit late and we used 2e revised and expanded. It had all the cool chrome - skill specialization, character points, exploding dice, etc. I can see why I thought that was cool at the time but it feels more like clutter now.

One thing that I've always done with Stars Wars is stay away from the main story line - I don't wanna be Luke's friend fighting Vader's cousin or constantly reference 'what really happened.' That was part of the appeal of Knights of the Old Republic. Now, I think I might try the time of The Mandalorian (but in a different part of the galaxy). There's imperial elements but they're not galaxy wide. Much of the equipment would be familiar to people. There's gotta be whole regions with power vacuums that the New Republic is too besieged to get to.

I tend to stay away from the main storyline in any franchise based RPG. I like to pick a jumping on point, then after that, take ownership of the setting. It's OUR game, not some publisher. And I refuse to be beholden to some canon that just gets in the way more often than not.

 

[Necrozius]

I would love a side-by-side comparison of the differences between the different WEG Star Wars Initiatives. For the time being, I think I may just stick with 1E's idea of whomever rolls highest goes first, and go with the more loose Dungeon World type of initiative which is more cinematic (ie, the "camera" moving around the room, going from action to reaction).

 

[Stan]

This site has a chart showing some differences between the editions:

 

[TristramEvans]

While WEG Star Wars and REUP are both from the same rules base, and Thrash & Street Fighter have completely different systems from each other, I think the basic idea is that both REUP & Thrash add a lot of fiddliness, complication and detail that pile up and kinda detract from the core magic of the respective predecessor games (WEG SW 1e being a pretty trim ~130 pg.).

Quite so. Its a habit I've found of many "fan editions" of gamelines to attempt to add in everything and the kitchen sink to make the game as robust/expansive/detailed as possible, with nary a thought to playability. I could have more aptly made the analogy to MSH and the MSH "Ultimate Edition" (which can be found on the Classic Marvel Forever site), but I had faith at least a few people here would catch my meaning, not the least because I do have a tendency to periodically drop Thrash into online conversations even as recently as last year.

And I should also say that I love Thrash in a way (granted not in a "I would ever attempt to GM it" way) just because it is the product of such obvious pure unbridled enthusiasm by someone clearly a devoted fan of the fighting game genre. There are even flashes of brilliance, such that one might rightly describe it as the only extant "Streetfighter Heartbreaker"

 

[Chris Brady]

Quite so. Its a habit I've found of many "fan editions" of gamelines to attempt to add in everything and the kitchen sink to make the game as robust/expansive/detailed as possible, with nary a thought to playability. I could have more aptly made the analogy to MSH and the MSH "Ultimate Edition" (which can be found on the Classic Marvel Forever site), but I had faith at least a few people here would catch my meaning, not the least because I do have a tendency to periodically drop Thrash into online conversations even as recently as last year.

And I should also say that I love Thrash in a way (granted not in a "I would ever attempt to GM it" way) just because it is the product of such obvious pure unbridled enthusiasm by someone clearly a devoted fan of the fighting game genre. There are even flashes of brilliance, such that one might rightly describe it as the only extant "Streetfighter Heartbreaker"

That would imply that Streetfighter by WoD was any good... hat system barely holds Vampire together, and then they added all sorts of fiddly bits that bust the system even wider.

 

[TristramEvans]

That would imply that Streetfighter by WoD was any good...

I don't know about "good", but I'm willing to imply it was hella fun