Savage Worlds: Pathfinder has landed

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So far I'm not as impressed with this as I was with Savage RIFTS. I guess the difference was that RIFTS was a popular game setting whose system no one wanted to use and Pathfinder is a popular system that just got its own overhaul.

JG
 
So, I've never read a Pathfinder book, but from what little I know, it's essentially D&D 3.75.
My question is: why would you want to do D&D 3.75 with SW? You're not even converting a setting, you're converting a system into another...
 
So far I'm not as impressed with this as I was with Savage RIFTS. I guess the difference was that RIFTS was a popular game setting whose system no one wanted to use and Pathfinder is a popular system that just got its own overhaul.

JG

So, I've never read a Pathfinder book, but from what little I know, it's essentially D&D 3.75.
My question is: why would you want to do D&D 3.75 with SW? You're not even converting a setting, you're converting a system into another...

You're converting the D&D tropes.

That said, people at PEG are apparently big fans of Paizo's setting, Golarion, and that's where the Adventure Paths and the Companion come in. For me, I think the setting feels like the dollar store version of Forgotten Realms. But finding a middle ground between the power level and mechanics of Savage Worlds and the tropes of D&D was kind of the selling point for me.

What use one gains from any particular product will obviously vary (my Savage RIFTS books still collect dust because, as it turns out, I still don't like RIFTS, even with a Savage Worlds engine under the hood).
 
So, I've never read a Pathfinder book, but from what little I know, it's essentially D&D 3.75.
My question is: why would you want to do D&D 3.75 with SW? You're not even converting a setting, you're converting a system into another...
Well personally, for me, I can’t stand d20 game mechanics anymore. I do, however, like the Pathfinder setting and Adventure Paths. So to be able to take those tropes and fluff, and have an offical way to import them into Savage Worlds has me itching to play a fantasy game in way I haven’t in a long time.
 
Well personally, for me, I can’t stand d20 game mechanics anymore. I do, however, like the Pathfinder setting and Adventure Paths. So to be able to take those tropes and fluff, and have an offical way to import them into Savage Worlds has me itching to play a fantasy game in way I haven’t in a long time.

I don't know if I was going to do Rise of the Rune Lords or convert some WotC stuff instead, but I was having a serious urging to do some Savage Pathfinder next...but my group has told me that my East Texas University campaign isn't ever allowed to end, sooooo...
 
I don't know if I was going to do Rise of the Rune Lords or convert some WotC stuff instead, but I was having a serious urging to do some Savage Pathfinder next...but my group has told me that my East Texas University campaign isn't ever allowed to end, sooooo...
Have them get sucked through a portal to “hell” that turns out to be Golarion.
 
Have them get sucked through a portal to “hell” that turns out to be Golarion.

I was just gonna have them jump on the Pathfinder roller coaster when the county fair comes back around, and wind up in a world of fantasy and adventure.


Of course, they'll be Legendary by that point, so they won't be sweating much when they get to the other side.
 
So, I've never read a Pathfinder book, but from what little I know, it's essentially D&D 3.75.
My question is: why would you want to do D&D 3.75 with SW? You're not even converting a setting, you're converting a system into another...
From my work with dragging the Majestic Wilderlands across multiple systems, there are some elements that system specific like how a creature suffers damage, how a stealth roll is made and some elements that not but are built from system specific elements. For example an orc in OD&D, AD&D, Fantasy Hero, GURPS, and D&D 5e is an orc but how it represented mechanically differs.

Pathfinder like all version of D&D has the system (revolving around the d20) and a bunch of lists representing things like classes, monsters, magic items, spells, etc. It is these lists that more or less gets ported over to Savage Worlds. Done right you can take a Pathfinder adventure drop in the Savage World version and it will play out roughly the same.

Keep in mine it not about mathematical perfect translation. It not what I do when I drag the Majestic Wilderlands across system. Nor what Adventures in Middle Earth does in relation to the One Ring RPG. Instead the end goal is to have the character do similar things in similar situation for similar reasons. For example I still have dungeons when I ran the Majestic Wilderlands using GURPS. However combat was much more detailed, and the capabilities of each character was more nuanced.

There does come a point were a system is so different that it is just too much work to make it work in the same way. Why I went with Swords & Wizardry over D&D 4e when it came to writing my material for publication. Which is not an issue with D&D 5e.
 
SW has shown it has the chops to do a lot more things now we have SW Rifts, SW PF, Sprawlrunners. That is quite a string to the bow for that system. Plus it will pave the way for so many more official, and homebrew, conversions down the line.

I also suspect we may get a lot more official conversions, whether Cthulhu, Star Wars. Heck I would not be surprised if we do not get an official SW Shadowrun at some point.

Mark my words, SW is about to nassively expand its fanbase.
 
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Thing is SW has shown its versatility with doing Rifts, and now Pathfinder. That is quite a string to the bow for that system. Plus it will pave the way for so many more official, and homebrew, conversions down the line.
I know I am being critical of the hobby in general, but I strongly feel people put way too much stock in the printed rules. It understandable given how most are taught from a young age that if a game has rules we play by them or we are cheating. But I see RPGs as a special case in that there is single overriding rule that you described what it is you do as your character and the referee describes what happens often by using game mechanics. This gives RPGs an inherent flexibility not found in other games. But too often there is the idea if it not described in the rules it something that can't be done.

I see SW Rifts and SW Pathfinder illustrating that principle especially when they are well done.
 
I know I am being critical of the hobby in general, but I strongly feel people put way too much stock in the printed rules. It understandable given how most are taught from a young age that if a game has rules we play by them or we are cheating. But I see RPGs as a special case in that there is single overriding rule that you described what it is you do as your character and the referee describes what happens often by using game mechanics. This gives RPGs an inherent flexibility not found in other games. But too often there is the idea if it not described in the rules it something that can't be done.

I see SW Rifts and SW Pathfinder illustrating that principle especially when they are well done.


Very true, and I think PF and SW PF will show this contrast. The former has a rule for well...everything such that it can become somewhat like a lease that can choke the fun out of the game, leading to argument, and interpretation. While SW can have that too, its rules are far looser, and meant to be that way being more geared for a cinematic playset / mind set.
 
So what's the draw to Pathfinder's setting that makes it desirable enough to port to another system?

The Adventure Paths are what hooked Pinnacle. As noted above, apparently Shane is a big fan.

For some folks, like me, we were in it more for the mechanical bits than anything setting related.
 
Granted from the people doing the selling, but as a potential buyer I haven't fully understood the draw of Pathfinder's setting on its own merits, only that the system was a popular mechanical alternative to 3.5. What stands out there?
 
Granted from the people doing the selling, but as a potential buyer I haven't fully understood the draw of Pathfinder's setting on its own merits, only that the system was a popular mechanical alternative to 3.5. What stands out there?
You get to play D&D style fantasy as represented by Pathfinder with the Savage World system. There will be some tweaks here and there but for the most part that what it is about.
 
The whole point of the Cantrip was to let the wizards and other casters to have a decent attack that they can use on par for the Fighter. Now, whether or not you like or accept the idea, it was a reaction to the 2e-3e problem of having to control the party's dungeon crawling. They were meant to help against the '15 Minute Work Day'.
 
So, I've never read a Pathfinder book, but from what little I know, it's essentially D&D 3.75.
My question is: why would you want to do D&D 3.75 with SW? You're not even converting a setting, you're converting a system into another...
The simple answer is: "D&D" is it's own brand of fantasy. To date SW has largely done fantasy settings that were "not quite D&D". The big two I'd cite (and one is still not exactly on-target by intent) is Shaintar and Hellfrost.

Shaintar is actually a pretty solid kitchensink setting with all the D&D trappings, the problem is it pushed the envelope of the, then Explorer editon rules of SW (and the previous edition to that) beyond the Core, and now currently there is no SWADE edition of it.

Hellfrost is decidedly viking-themed, but it also has some Arabian components. But the world itself is set in an ice-age so there is the environmental thematics working alongside the cultural ones.

What Savage Worlds needed since the inception of SWADE Core was a rocksolid Fantasy version of the rules. Since the Fantasy Companion hasn't dropped, SWADE Pathfinder is kind of the summation of what everyone wants: a baseline D&D fantasy setting with the Core rules cooked in, with all the bells and whistles. With the modularity of SWADE 100% still intact within the system itself, now anyone that wants to get in there and tweak and/or create something whole of cloth for their own homebrew, or simply run it native - you can with little effort.

Combine that with the existence of Savage Rifts - which also sits on the SWADE chassis, you could **easily** ramp your fantasy games to insane levels with very little work.

What you get out of Savage Worlds is everything you would want in your favorite D&D fantasy-style setting with a system that is a lot smoother to run at the table than "D&D" with a tremendous amount of scalability, even on the fly that D&D can't match without a *lot* of effort and loss of mechanical fidelity at the high-level of play.

Savage Worlds can devour D&D's 15th-20th level epic play *with ease*, mechanically. That alone should be of interest to anyone wanting to play at that level, or want something that could be like Exalted fantasy superheroes, or gritty proto/demi godlike characters doing world-shaking shit.

Pulling that kind of play off in D&D post-2e is not easy even for experienced GM's, outside of a one-shot. Hell even in 1e/2e it was hard.

Of course low-level/mid-level play where D&D shines, is replicated with relatively much less of a mechanical footprint in Savage Worlds, ramp-up time learning the system/sub-systems not withstanding.

I contend that Savage Worlds sub-systems are both more modular AND fit tighter into their core-mechanics than D&D does, generally.
 
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Granted from the people doing the selling, but as a potential buyer I haven't fully understood the draw of Pathfinder's setting on its own merits, only that the system was a popular mechanical alternative to 3.5. What stands out there?
I have zero intention of running Golarion. ZERO. As Tommy Brownell Tommy Brownell mentioned upthread - it comes off as a knockoff Forgotten Realms, and I'm okay with that. But I also consider I'm old, and for some gamers younger than me, Golarion might be their "Realms" to them, and fair play. There are some interesting things in the setting, but eh, not enough for me to be too interested in it.

Now... if my players want to campaign there? No problem, we're in. But I'm looking at this in a much bigger picture. My crew loves Forgotten Realms. They like Kara-Tur, Al-Qadim, even Maztica. Which leads to Spelljammer - which of course leads to everything else. Savage Pathfinder gives us all the basic template to do that without missing a beat. Once you understand the system, on-the-fly conversion is *EASY*.

What makes it even better - for those that feel intimidated by this prospect, they give a progression path for each class, so if you wanted to convert on the fly, you only have to know what the D&D/PF's character level is and look at the progression path, and you'd know roundabout what they'd be packing if they were a Wild Card (important NPC).

For veteran SW GM's, most of this can be done without having to do that, but those tools are there for anyone considering it. This isn't just Savage Worlds Pathfinder - this is the Dimension Door to Savage D&D writ-large.
 
Oh lord all my little Savage Worlds conversion I've been quietly working on can now exist in the context of Savage Spelljammer...

Savage Talislanta Space, Midkemia Space, Greyspace, Krynnspace, Hyboreaspace, Newhon Space, maybe some Athas, oh my!
 
Shaintar is actually a pretty solid kitchensink setting with all the D&D trappings, the problem is it pushed the envelope of the, then Explorer editon rules of SW (and the previous edition to that) beyond the Core, and now currently there is no SWADE edition of it.
The big problem to me was that the fulfillment of the Kickstarter was a shitshow that turned me off any material that I received.
 
So what's the draw to Pathfinder's setting that makes it desirable enough to port to another system?
If the premise of doing Pathfinder as a setting was to support a game system that Wizards wasn't supporting anymore, Golarion is likewise an attempt to create the kind of setting Wizards does - D&D as its own Fantasy genre - without having to convert to D&D 4th (or 5th) Edition. Presenting warmed-over Forgotten Realms is actually a selling point in that regard.
Personally I liked the idea of a Lawful Evil nation that has Asmodeus as a state god, an "American Revolution" nation next to a French Revolution nation, Africans, Vikings, muskets and cyberware. And the computer game for Kingmaker was awesome.
JG
 
SW has shown it has the chops to do a lot more things now we have SW Rifts, SW PF, Sprawlrunners. That is quite a string to the bow for that system. Plus it will pave the way for so many more official, and homebrew, conversions down the line.

I also suspect we may get a lot more official conversions, whether Cthulhu, Star Wars. Heck I would not be surprised if we do not get an official SW Shadowrun at some point.

Mark my words, SW is about to nassively expand its fanbase.
Shadowrun: Another setting that everyone loves and nobody wants to play in its own system.

JG
 
If the premise of doing Pathfinder as a setting was to support a game system that Wizards wasn't supporting anymore, Golarion is likewise an attempt to create the kind of setting Wizards does - D&D as its own Fantasy genre - without having to convert to D&D 4th (or 5th) Edition. Presenting warmed-over Forgotten Realms is actually a selling point in that regard.
Personally I liked the idea of a Lawful Evil nation that has Asmodeus as a state god, an "American Revolution" nation next to a French Revolution nation, Africans, Vikings, muskets and cyberware. And the computer game for Kingmaker was awesome.
JG
I hate the idea that Law is somehow 'evil', one of the reasons I was never a fan of Golarion.
 
Shadowrun: Another setting that everyone loves and nobody wants to play in its own system.

JG
Exactly.
I can think of others, Lovecraft (partially done in Nemezis), nuTrek (very cinematic in nature already), Eternal Champion that kind of thing would be work great in SW
 
I'd like to play 'D&D as its own Fantasy genre' in a system that isn't D20 class-and-level too, but I'd prefer Fantasy Hero to what I'm seeing so far.

JG
 
Shadowrun: Another setting that everyone loves and nobody wants to play in its own system.

JG
I don't love Shadowrun. It's full of things that don't quite fit together and ends up just feeling forced.
 
Granted from the people doing the selling, but as a potential buyer I haven't fully understood the draw of Pathfinder's setting on its own merits, only that the system was a popular mechanical alternative to 3.5. What stands out there?

The reason I purchased it- and the reason I purchase most of these types of IP related conversions- is to see what they introduced in order to make it work, and how those might be applied elsewhere.
 
I figure I'll use some of the groundwork they laid here and touch up a couple of other conversions folks have done (Savage Midnight and Savage Ravenloft) to port in elements of those games that I liked that I didn't have a handle on translating yet, too.
 
Personally I liked the idea of a Lawful Evil nation that has Asmodeus as a state god, an "American Revolution" nation next to a French Revolution nation, Africans, Vikings, muskets and cyberware.
JG

Yeah Cheliax and Andoran are cool and original (for modern D&D-style fantasy). If I started a Golarion campaign, my first instinct would be start building my sandbox in one of those two places.
 
The big problem to me was that the fulfillment of the Kickstarter was a shitshow that turned me off any material that I received.
What happened? Honestly I have never had a problem with any of their Kickstarters. But I'm in the U.S. so if this has to do with overseas shipping, I'm obviously not going to be subject to those kinds of problems.

I know Pinnacle is pretty transparent about any kinds of problems, and I've seen enough of their postings on their KS's where they will flat out say up/down on particular situations. But given the fiasco we now know as 2020... I'm a bit surprised any of the last years KS's even happened.

I took a look at my KS history - I've backed 7 Pinnacle KS's. Never had a hitch with any of them... (wow I didn't realize I spent that much on Pinnacle - LOL and this isn't counting books I bought directly from them).
 
What happened? Honestly I have never had a problem with any of their Kickstarters. But I'm in the U.S. so if this has to do with overseas shipping, I'm obviously not going to be subject to those kinds of problems.

I know Pinnacle is pretty transparent about any kinds of problems, and I've seen enough of their postings on their KS's where they will flat out say up/down on particular situations. But given the fiasco we now know as 2020... I'm a bit surprised any of the last years KS's even happened.

I took a look at my KS history - I've backed 7 Pinnacle KS's. Never had a hitch with any of them... (wow I didn't realize I spent that much on Pinnacle - LOL and this isn't counting books I bought directly from them).

This wasn't Pinnacle, it was Evil Beagle. The newer campaign, they seem to have learned from the old one- I asked some pointed questions here and the responses were pretty good- Savage Mojo said it was before their time. I'd planned to back Suzerain, but didn't catch the Kickstarter.


And I totally agree with you on Pinnacle. They're one of the safest bets in Kickstarter projects and they deliver in most cases ahead of time.
 
I have never liked alignments from playing Palladium to other games. It seems too rigid
 
Never said Laws can't be used for evil, but the entire concept of Law being evil rubs me wrong.
Eh, I'm long on the record that I think Alignment in D&D is pointless outside of axiomatic needs like for Deities and classes that require them.

To my delight, SW's Pathfinder has Good, Evil and Neutral. Which is all you really need. Players tend to use alignment to justify their immediate needs. You don't need the initials penned on your sheet to play that way, right?

Detect Good doesn't care if you're Neutral, Lawful or Chaotic. But you as a player can play however you want to define that paradigm.

Which is also why my I dearly love Faiths and Pantheons - your religious order should give you specific creeds and bylaws and practices to follow that are actionable. Instead we get decades worth of people fighting on forums trying to define Batman's brand of Good.

As far as Cheliax goes - its interesting because effectively it's gaslighting on massive scale that that makes one kinda cringe at the irony of it all. Very gameable.
 
I don't have a problem with alignments when there are definable forces of Law, Chaos, Evil, and Good. When, like in 5e, they've removed that element from all the magic and the like (which I'm also fine with), then it just feels like a vestigial remnant left in because D&D is "supposed" to have that.
 
The biggest draw for Savage Pathfinder for me would be the help in doing Savage Scarred Lands. Asmodeus is one of my favorite BBEG though, so Golarion appeals to me more than the modern Realms. Savage Grey Box would be cool though.
 
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