Let's make a character for..... Lejendary Adventure

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Bunch

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I hope to do a number of these but realistically I'm going to be happy if I finish this one.

I have the Essentials boxed set. A nice little red box like intro set.

Apparently it's a twelve step process to make a character.

Step one pick a race. Options: human,dwarf,ilf, Kobold,oaf-typical,oaf-major.

I'm picking kobold because it's different.
These are not D&D kobolds. They're short, slender, greenish,black to green hair.

I have 100 points to distribute between three stats: health, precision, speed.
For a kobold the mins and Max for each stat are:
Health 40-70
Precision 20-50
Speed 10-14
I'm going with 50,40,10.
Now each race gets a certain dice addition to each stat. For K's it's 2d6+2,1d12+2,1d4 half points +2. My rolls are 7,9,4.5 for new stats of 57,49,14.5

Next is abilities. Races can have excluded, restricted from starting with and mandatory abilities.
Ks are excluded from chivalry. Okie dokie.
Restricted from :nomadic, physique, planning,pretense,waterfaring

Mandatory abilities:
Stealth at 90% of precision
Commerce at 80% of health
Evaluation at 70% of health
I get to choose two more. One at 100% of ability and one at 60% of ability. Oh I'm picking swashbuckling at 100% and Stealing at 60%

So when you pick an ability they add to one or more of your base ratings. Swashbuckling adds to 1 to health and precision and .25 to speed.
Stealing adds +2 to precision.

Ok current stats Health 58, Precision 52, Speed 14.75

At this point base ratings are fixed I think. Now I can figure my skills.
Swashbuckling is 100% of (and this is oddly complicated compared to other abilities.) the sum of the three base ratings where speed is multiplied by four to bring it up and then divide the sum by three. So that's (58+52+(4*14.75))/3= Swashbuckling 56.33
Stealth 46.8
Commerce 46.4
Evaluation 40
Stealing 31.2

Crap I was supposed to add two points each to health to commerce and evaluation and two to precision for stealth. I don't want to recalculate.

Oh oops I need to add one more abilities at 10% and since I haven't picked a weapon ability so far I believe I'm required to do that now. I should have added another 2 points to precision before calculation.
So Weapons is at 5.2%.

Next step is to construct a background. Ok Ko the Kobold is a shift theify kind of kobold prone to showmanship in a fight. Honestly I'm not sure if Swashbuckling was sufficient weapons ability to avoid having to specifically choose the Weapons ability. Probably not but suffice to say there is a bit of both offensive and defensive comments in the swashbuckling ability.

Ok now we need equipment. This is interested because instead of simple roll for money and buy crap you have lists. What list you use is determined by your abilities.
For Ko I'm ultimately going to pick 19 items from lists and one roll on the special table. Let's do that tomorrow.
 
whats the difference between an Ilf and an Oaf?
 
I'm updating a CoC characters as I'm reading this. For some reason, the words "needlessly complicated" spring to mind:grin:.

But please go on, it's actually quite interesting!
 
I have not played or read this game but that just seems so needlessly complicated. But continue as I want to read all about this.

There was apparently a LOT of product for a game I've never known anybody to own or play:

Lejendary Adventure products
  • Rule Books:
    • The Lejendary Rules for All Players – Fantasy Role-Playing Game core rulebook, Hekaforge Productions, 1999
    • The Lejend Master's Lore – Fantasy Role-Playing Game core rulebook, Hekaforge Productions, 2000
    • The Beasts of Lejend – Fantasy Role-Playing Game core rulebook, Hekaforge Productions, 2000
    • More Beasts of Legend – Troll Lord Games, 2007
  • Campaign World Books:
    • Lejendary Earth Gazetteer – World Setting sourcebook Part 1, Hekaforge Productions, 2002
    • Noble Knights and Dark Lands – LE World Setting Part 2, (Gary Gygax with Chris Clark) Hekaforge Productions, 2003
    • The Exotic Realms of Hazgar – LE World Setting Part 3, (Gary Gygax with Chris Clark) Hekaforge Productions, 2006
    • Jewels of the East - possibly never produced
  • Adventure Scenarios:
    • Terekaptra: Lost City of the Utiss – (Chris Clark)
    • Enclave – (Chris Clark), Adventure module editor, Hekaforge Productions, 2000
    • The Lejendary Road – (Jon Creffield)
    • The Dance of the Fairie Ring – (Jon Creffield)
    • The Mouth of the Marsh – (Jon Creffield)
    • Cavalcade – (Larry D. Hols) included with Lejend Master's Screen
    • The Rock – (Chris Clark)
    • The Hermit (Gary Gygax) – dual-stat d20/LA game adventure module, Troll Lord Games, August 2002
    • The Lost City of Gaxmoor – (Ernie & Luke Gygax with David Moore) Troll Lord Games, 2002
    • Hall of Many Panes – (Gary Gygax with Jon Creffield) Campaign Adventure Module Boxed Set with d20 stats included, Troll Lord Games 2005
    • Forlorn Corners – adventure module included serially as a part of the Author’s and Collector’s Editions of the three core rules noted above (1999–2000)
    • They Who Watch – (Jon Creffield) published by Troll Lord Games
    • Fish for Breakfast – (Greg Ellis) published by Troll Lord Games
    • The Sundering I – "Shadow of Apix by" (Dan Cross) - possibly never produced
    • The Sundering II – "The King of Madness" (Dan Cross) - possibly never produced
    • A Question of Tribute – (Jon Creffield) - possibly never produced
  • Boxed Sets and Expansions:
    • The Lejendary Adventure Essentials – Primer Boxed Set for the LA RPG, Troll Lord Games, 2005
    • Tome of Knowledge Sourcebook – Core Rules additions for the LA RPG, Troll Lord Games possibly never produced
    • Living the Lejend – Adventure Module, Campaign Setting, & Expansion for the LA Essentials Boxed Set, Troll Lord Games (Summer of 2005)
Gary Gygax’s The Canting Crew, the Criminal Underclass, “Gygaxian Fantasy Worlds, Volume I” – Troll Lord Games, May 2002
 
Bunch, can you give us an idea of how much time it is taking to make this character? Certainly with the caveat you are learning the system.
 
Unfortunately there is a vital error in Bunch's process: there are no mere "characters" in Lejendary Adventure. You create an Avatar that you will play under the watchful eyes of your Lejend Master!

Per Wikipedia: "Lejendary Adventure products were published by both Hekaforge Productions and Troll Lord Games. Three months after Gygax's death in 2008, his widow Gail withdrew all of the licenses from Troll Lord and also from Hekaforge. The game has been out of print since that time."

I would love to know what the point of pulling the license was...seems like a revenue stream, no matter how small, is a good thing...basically free money for her...I have no inside information but my hunch is she thought she could get $30 million for it. :money: Presumably in the 10 years since she pulled the license she has entertained offers that fell just short of that $30 million mark so she's holding out. :grin:
 
I’m pretty sure that she thought Gary was basically giving away his content for pennies on the dollar while he was alive based on what I have seen since he’s been gone. Now that there will be no future content from The Father of Roleplaying®, what was previously written might be worth a small fortune to the Gygax Estate. But here we are ten years later and nothing.
 
I have not played or read this game but that just seems so needlessly complicated. But continue as I want to read all about this.

There was apparently a LOT of product for a game I've never known anybody to own or play:

Lejendary Adventure products
  • Rule Books:
    • The Lejendary Rules for All Players – Fantasy Role-Playing Game core rulebook, Hekaforge Productions, 1999
    • The Lejend Master's Lore – Fantasy Role-Playing Game core rulebook, Hekaforge Productions, 2000
    • The Beasts of Lejend – Fantasy Role-Playing Game core rulebook, Hekaforge Productions, 2000
    • More Beasts of Legend – Troll Lord Games, 2007
  • Campaign World Books:
    • Lejendary Earth Gazetteer – World Setting sourcebook Part 1, Hekaforge Productions, 2002
    • Noble Knights and Dark Lands – LE World Setting Part 2, (Gary Gygax with Chris Clark) Hekaforge Productions, 2003
    • The Exotic Realms of Hazgar – LE World Setting Part 3, (Gary Gygax with Chris Clark) Hekaforge Productions, 2006
    • Jewels of the East - possibly never produced
  • Adventure Scenarios:
    • Terekaptra: Lost City of the Utiss – (Chris Clark)
    • Enclave – (Chris Clark), Adventure module editor, Hekaforge Productions, 2000
    • The Lejendary Road – (Jon Creffield)
    • The Dance of the Fairie Ring – (Jon Creffield)
    • The Mouth of the Marsh – (Jon Creffield)
    • Cavalcade – (Larry D. Hols) included with Lejend Master's Screen
    • The Rock – (Chris Clark)
    • The Hermit (Gary Gygax) – dual-stat d20/LA game adventure module, Troll Lord Games, August 2002
    • The Lost City of Gaxmoor – (Ernie & Luke Gygax with David Moore) Troll Lord Games, 2002
    • Hall of Many Panes – (Gary Gygax with Jon Creffield) Campaign Adventure Module Boxed Set with d20 stats included, Troll Lord Games 2005
    • Forlorn Corners – adventure module included serially as a part of the Author’s and Collector’s Editions of the three core rules noted above (1999–2000)
    • They Who Watch – (Jon Creffield) published by Troll Lord Games
    • Fish for Breakfast – (Greg Ellis) published by Troll Lord Games
    • The Sundering I – "Shadow of Apix by" (Dan Cross) - possibly never produced
    • The Sundering II – "The King of Madness" (Dan Cross) - possibly never produced
    • A Question of Tribute – (Jon Creffield) - possibly never produced
  • Boxed Sets and Expansions:
    • The Lejendary Adventure Essentials – Primer Boxed Set for the LA RPG, Troll Lord Games, 2005
    • Tome of Knowledge Sourcebook – Core Rules additions for the LA RPG, Troll Lord Games possibly never produced
    • Living the Lejend – Adventure Module, Campaign Setting, & Expansion for the LA Essentials Boxed Set, Troll Lord Games (Summer of 2005)
Gary Gygax’s The Canting Crew, the Criminal Underclass, “Gygaxian Fantasy Worlds, Volume I” – Troll Lord Games, May 2002
Whatever you're doing to change the font text please stop. I can't make it out on the black colorsheme option.
 
Bunch, can you give us an idea of how much time it is taking to make this character? Certainly with the caveat you are learning the system.
I took a cursory read the night before just to get the rough idea but there are enough specifics that that didn't help much beyond learning gross vocabulary.
I made this guy while having a beer and watching Below Deck with my wife. Don't judge. We both like boats. Honestly you can judge a bit because this crew is full of dbags. Anyway it wasn't too bad. They do a good job of directing chargen. Looking over abilities and doing that fiddly add to stats then take percentages has been the most time consuming. I picked the base scores and abilities quickly without really trying to get a good understanding of what I'm doing. You could probably do what I did in 10-20 minutes so far.
Picking from the EQ lists is going to take a little while.
Also I have no idea how combat works yet so it seems entirely possible this guy will die in one combat. I think due to race and swashbuckling it be a long combat involving lots of misses but we'll see.
 
... You could probably do what I did in 10-20 minutes so far.....
I kind of find that hard to believe, unless you are wicked fast.

OD&D characters take about 15 minutes start to finish with no dilly-dallying and a pre-made character sheet. Rolling dice and writing take a bit of time, and there is a some time for thought of best class for your stats.

Here you need to keep track of the points you spend at various stages. Add in the calculations you mention, (add three numbers, multiply by 4 then dived by 3, WTF :smile: ) much more. Basically, there appears to be a slew of derived abilities at multiple steps, with a fair bit of side modifiers here and there (all providing potential for mistakes).
 
There was apparently a LOT of product for a game I've never known anybody to own or play:

Around 2000 or 2001 the game seemed to be popular in some circles. It seemed to be the only game that the two RPG groups that met at my local library were playing for most of 2001.
 
Around 2000 or 2001 the game seemed to be popular in some circles. It seemed to be the only game that the two RPG groups that met at my local library were playing for most of 2001.
Hmm, I just realized that was a period where I played almost no RPGs so maybe it was more popular than I imagine and I just never encountered it then or since.
 
Whatever you're doing to change the font text please stop. I can't make it out on the black colorsheme option.
A weakness of the "dark-siders". Easy to slip in Bunch, you suck secret messages and have them be none the wiser.

On topic: Lejendary Adventure sounds like a mess. But I'd perversely like to see a combat example for a little more shock and awe.
 
Hmm, I just realized that was a period where I played almost no RPGs so maybe it was more popular than I imagine and I just never encountered it then or since.

That wouldn't surprise me. I think a few threads here in the last week are the first mentions I've heard or seen of Lejendary Adventure since about 2005.
 
That'd be your settings.

Like any good member of the Pub, he's got the forum on the Dark settings (which is like a thousand times easier on my very taxed eyes). When text is posted normally, it shows up as white against the black background. But if you change the text colour to 'black' after copy and pasting it (or not pasting it as 'plain text/without formatting'), it shows up as black text against a black background
 
Like any good member of the Pub, he's got the forum on the Dark settings (which is like a thousand times easier on my very taxed eyes). When text is posted normally, it shows up as white against the black background. But if you change the text colour to 'black' after copy and pasting it (or not pasting it as 'plain text/without formatting'), it shows up as black text against a black background
So pfffft on you D!
 
I kind of find that hard to believe, unless you are wicked fast.

OD&D characters take about 15 minutes start to finish with no dilly-dallying and a pre-made character sheet. Rolling dice and writing take a bit of time, and there is a some time for thought of best class for your stats.

Here you need to keep track of the points you spend at various stages. Add in the calculations you mention, (add three numbers, multiply by 4 then dived by 3, WTF :smile: ) much more. Basically, there appears to be a slew of derived abilities at multiple steps, with a fair bit of side modifiers here and there (all providing potential for mistakes).
Well there's only three core stats and it's a 100 point build system with racial limits so the initial picking of stats is almost zero time. I say this because speed tends to get limited to between 5-15 points. The others often have limits between 20-70 with the racial secondary stat having limits of like 15-40. All in all that step goes super quick. Next is write down your racial picks and ratings as well as remaining picks and ratings. Fairly quick since a lot is specified at this point. The next step is picking abilities. That's going to vary a lot by person. Personally I would suggest going through your rulebook and in the race section note the core attributes bonus for each racial ability. That should speed things yand reduce errors. Then you just need to worry about your free picks and what they give you.
Addition and multiplication are pretty quick for me so that I didn't see as an issue.
Swashbuckling is unusual also as an ability. I don't think I saw another one that was anyway near as complicated. Most are either +1 to two stats or +2 to one stat.

If you have ever read a FGU game this is light-years less complicated so far.

Now I still don't know how to figure whatever is equivalent to AC or Defensive bonus or whatnot and I don't have a clue how combat works so there's that. I specifically avoided spellcasting for now.

19 picks on the various tables is going to be annoying I think. Especially since I can already see that one pick on the wealthy table is either equivalent to 4 picks on the low table or possibly 50 picks if you take cash and are able to spend it. I'll maybe post a picture of some tables for examples.
 
Yes your description does read like a FGU character build :smile: which are tedious. When you’ve got a complete character ready to play would be interested, 19 picks on tables sounds time consuming.
I don’t doubt the addition is fast, multiplying by four fairly fast, division by three, hmmm.

My experience with this kind of derived attribute stuff is individually not so bad if the math is wicked simple but in aggregate can slow things, especially if you want to adjust.

That is you calculate a derived attribute, don’t like it, go back to raise something it’s caculated from, oops there are multiple inputs, which to change, then see if you messed up another derived attribute. The more interactions from the variables the worse it can get, especially when dealing with double digit base attribute numbers. Better to divide everything by 10. :smile:
 
I was tempted to dig out my Author's Edition of the core rules that has been moldering on a shelf for about 18 years since I bought the damned thing. I seem to recall the rules were an incomprehensible mess at the time *fetches the book and starts reading*. . . yep, "faulty memories not so faulty after all."

Holy shit, I'd almost forgotten all about the specialty terminology and the "where'd I put my spreadsheet" character creation process. I look forward to watching this thread unfold.
 
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Yes your description does read like a FGU character build :smile: which are tedious.
Unless it's Merc, Flashing Blades, Villains and Vigilantes, Privateers and Gentlemen...Daredevils and Bushido are maybe borderline complex...so maybe Aftermath? :trigger:Space Opera! :wink:
 
Unless it's Merc, Flashing Blades, Villains and Vigilantes, Privateers and Gentlemen...Daredevils and Bushido are maybe borderline complex...so maybe Aftermath? :trigger:Space Opera! :wink:
Wait doesn't V&V have some oddness around how damage and hit points are calculated? It's been an age but I almost recall a square root being involved.
 
Yes your description does read like a FGU character build :smile: which are tedious. When you’ve got a complete character ready to play would be interested, 19 picks on tables sounds time consuming.
I don’t doubt the addition is fast, multiplying by four fairly fast, division by three, hmmm.

My experience with this kind of derived attribute stuff is individually not so bad if the math is wicked simple but in aggregate can slow things, especially if you want to adjust.

That is you calculate a derived attribute, don’t like it, go back to raise something it’s caculated from, oops there are multiple inputs, which to change, then see if you messed up another derived attribute. The more interactions from the variables the worse it can get, especially when dealing with double digit base attribute numbers. Better to divide everything by 10. :smile:
It does help there are only three main stats.
 
I'm curious to see this. I have no experience with the system but it was, by all accounts, Gary Gygax's favorite system in his twilight years.
 
Wait doesn't V&V have some oddness around how damage and hit points are calculated? It's been an age but I almost recall a square root being involved.
I'd have to refresh my memory by reading it again but I think it's a formula using your Strength score and your weight to arrive at your hit points, but it was a pretty quick multiplication. Now I want to attempt Space Opera just to see how convoluted it is. I have it on the shelf where it has remained untouched for years. There are some neat planet/galaxy/sector/whatever guides for Space Opera, though, that are fun to borrow from for other games like Traveller.
 
I'd have to refresh my memory by reading it again but I think it's a formula using your Strength score and your weight to arrive at your hit points, but it was a pretty quick multiplication. Now I want to attempt Space Opera just to see how convoluted it is. I have it on the shelf where it has remained untouched for years. There are some neat planet/galaxy/sector/whatever guides for Space Opera, though, that are fun to borrow from for other games like Traveller.
Hit point modifiers and carrying capacity are equally involved as figuring base scores in LA
 
Ok before we continue this.

A lots been commented on how complicated this all sounds due to the Swashbuckling skill. That is the only skill I can find that uses the odd add three stats and multiply one by four before taking the average. 90%+ of the skills are rated by just taking a percentage of the base stat.
Let's pick some crap.

From the high list 4x
$25k
Full set of leather armor and boots etc
Pack horse
10 doses of poison
Mid list 8x
Sword w scabbard
dagger w scabbard
2x Salve 7x wound healing
Backpack, pouch, belt, shoulder pouch
Spear light throwing
Hatchet
Clothing good dark w hat

Low list 8x
Grease pot w rag
100 clay balls in bag
Grappling hook
Cloak dark
Sling
Line 30'
File & lock pick
Pry bar

After this I have to use my $25k to buy food etc.
This took a while.
 
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Like any good member of the Pub, he's got the forum on the Dark settings (which is like a thousand times easier on my very taxed eyes). When text is posted normally, it shows up as white against the black background. But if you change the text colour to 'black' after copy and pasting it (or not pasting it as 'plain text/without formatting'), it shows up as black text against a black background
So you just use "select all" on the page:wink:.
 
Unless it's Merc, Flashing Blades, Villains and Vigilantes, Privateers and Gentlemen...Daredevils and Bushido are maybe borderline complex...so maybe Aftermath? :trigger:Space Opera! :wink:
Aftermath character generation pales in comparison to actually running a combat :smile: I love many aspects of Aftermath!, and it has some good ideas for mechanical inspiration, but never will try to play it again...
 
I'd have to refresh my memory by reading it again but I think it's a formula using your Strength score and your weight to arrive at your hit points, but it was a pretty quick multiplication. Now I want to attempt Space Opera just to see how convoluted it is. I have it on the shelf where it has remained untouched for years. There are some neat planet/galaxy/sector/whatever guides for Space Opera, though, that are fun to borrow from for other games like Traveller.
Loved how Space Opera described/categorized home worlds, otherwise had no use for it other than for inspiration.
 
Ok before we continue this.

A lots been commented on how complicated this all sounds due to the Swashbuckling skill. That is the only skill I can find that uses the odd add three stats and multiply one by four before taking the average. 90%+ of the skills are rated by just taking a percentage of the base stat.
....
To me even a % of a stat is time consuming especially if the percentage is not a nice easy multiple of 10% and/or what you are taking a percentage of is not a nice multiple of 10.

I can do % really quick in my head (could also once do most differentiation and some integration in my head), but most people seem to have trouble with 15% on a tip.

For example, what's 70% of 57? I can do it in my head but man 57 - (5.7x3) = 57 - (3x5 + 3x0.7); but can most, reliably, without error? I guess my question now, is all this detail meaningful and worth it in the game?
 
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To me even a % of a stat is time consuming especially if the percentage is not a nice easy multiple of 10% and/or what you are taking a percentage of is not a nice multiple of 10.

I can do % really quick in my head (could also once do most differentiation and some integration in my head), but most people seem to have trouble with 15% on a tip.

For example, what's 70% of 57? I can do it in my head but man 57 - (5.7x3) = 57 - (3x5 + 3x0.7); but can most, reliably, without error? I guess my question now, is all this detail meaningful and worth it in the game?
Dunno yet. I also don't know how often it changes which also makes a big difference.
 
Time for a recap
Note I've added the bonuses to the base stats but I didn't recalculate the abilities. Also the last ability that is at 10% is a straight 10% not a percentage of a base stat and whatever it would have added to a base stat is ignored.

Ko the Kobold
Health 62
Precision 54
Speed 14.75

Abilities
Swashbuckling 56
Stealth 47
Commerce 46
Evaluation 40
Stealing 31
Weapons 10

Equipment
$25k
Full set of leather armor and boots etc
Pack horse
10 doses of poison
Sword w scabbard
dagger w scabbard
2x Salve 7x wound healing
Backpack, pouch, belt, shoulder pouch
Spear light throwing
Hatchet
Clothing good dark w hat
Grease pot w rag
100 clay balls in bag
Grappling hook
Cloak dark
Sling
Line 30'
File & lock pick
Pry bar
 
39,9 exactly, took me less than 10 seconds to calculate.
And me as well, but we are only 2 data points on a self selected group who enjoy game design. Ask people you know, see how long it takes. They likely will resort to there phone.

I used to think that this stuff was easy for most (I believe FGU thought the same) until such games got to the table. Even when a player could do such math readily, they oft asked why? Why the fiddly math to a percentage point (or here even fractions)?

Then even it was all said and done the error rate was non-zero, requiring checking (ugg). One could say live with the errors no big deal, but if that’s the case why track things to a percentile?

So overall my experience is in theory and when the motivated GM uses such systems it seems fine, until you got 4 players at the table trying it, then it’s far slower than you imagined.
 
Ok now the whole point of an RPG is to enable sociopathic players to wander a fantasy world and kill wantonly. To do that we need combat stats. Let's go figure those out.

Let's start with Race. Kobolds get two atttack per unit of time called ABC. Yeah I can see why you need to call round ABC. No wait I can't. I'm calling it round.l from now on. They also get a Physique bonus of +1d4+1 naturally to this attack. His is +4
Kobolds get +2 to armor unless they are unaware.

Abilities bonuses
Swashbuckling 56
+1 per 10 points to Defender Situation Adjustment = +5.6=6
+1/5pts to party while in armor w/o speed penalty. =11.2=11

Weapons
Sword 4-20harm, 4speed, 3range 10precision


What's all that mean? Harm is damage. 4-20 means roll d20 and anything under 4 is a 4. Speed breaks ties in initiative. Range is essentially weapon length i think. 10 is the bonus to weapon ability. Some weapons are easier to hit with than others

So how do two opponents interact In combat? Glad you asked. Here is the formula.
ASP + WPB +ASA + DSA and roll under on d100
ASP is pretty much your weapon ability.
Wpb is weapon precision bonus seen above
ASA is situational modifiers like cover or distance etc
DSA is defender situation adjustments such as cover, motion, etc
Next we'll cover what happens when you hit
 
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