MSH - Thoughts, House Rules, and Best Practices

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Now I need the help of the character modelers. For this new game, three players are rolling up 5 characters each and choosing what they want to play (and subject to a little balancing by the GM). The last player is converting over her character from a previous campaign as the hero who brings this new team together.

We were playing Champions. Aura is basically a lower-powered Green Lantern who makes geometric hard light shapes rather than *anything* like GL.

In Champions, she had Blast, Force Wall, Telekinesis, Entangle, and Killing Attack vs. Non-Organics in a Multipower. She could fly and she had a force field.

Flight is no problem. Energy Solidification seemed to cover the Entangle and Force Wall. The Killing Attack I reduced to just being a Stunt (if it was even needed at all).

I couldn't tell from the Energy Solidification description if it included the Blast and TK. At the moment, I added a separate Kinetic Bolt (at a slightly lower level) and a separate TK power. Is this appropriate or is Energy Solidification that flexible to include all those powers?

Finally, for the personal force field (a super-common power in Champions but actually not all that common in comics) I chose an Energy Sheath, because "Force Field" in MSH seems to be much wider ranging as a power.

What do you think?
Every power stunt in Champions has to be bought and written up separately even if they seem like things a character ought to be able to do. For instance, in comics the Human Torch can do pretty much anything thag makes sense for a guy who can sheath himself in flame, control flame, and project flame, but in Champions he'd have to get Energy Blast with NND to dry things up with heat, Dispel to put out fires, regular Energy Blast to toss fireballs, Damage Shield for his flame sheath defense, Flash affecting Sight Group to blind people with flares, Ranged Killing Attack with Penetrating modifier to melt stuff, Telekinesis limited to fire to move flames around, Energy Damage Reduction to avoid taking damage from using his own powers, Missile Deflection to melt bullets that would hit him, Force Wall to make his fiery barriers, etc. Quite a list just to do what you'd expect. You don't get any abilities that aren't specifically designed and paid for, even if they make total sense.
 
OK, I understand that (I've played Champions since 1981). In MSH, how do I distinguish between "this ability is implied by the power's description" and "this is a power stunt" and "this is a separate power altogether"? I want my player to be able to do what she could reliably do in the last game. Does that make sense?
 
OK, I understand that (I've played Champions since 1981). In MSH, how do I distinguish between "this ability is implied by the power's description" and "this is a power stunt" and "this is a separate power altogether"? I want my player to be able to do what she could reliably do in the last game. Does that make sense?
Basically it's a stunt if it seems like a reasonable offshoot not described in the power's write-up. So, using the Human Torch again, he has Flame Projection (or whatever it's called), which says nothing about making flaming cages or spelling out "4" in the sky: those would be reasonable power stunts the first few times he tries to do them, and then just become a regular aspect of his power after X many successful uses. The key is "implied" = power stunt. A separate power would be something obviously unrelated to generating flames, like the Human Torch being able to fly. Or, if it's something that could be attempted via a power stunt, like a fiery cage, ask the player if she wants it to always be an option (separate power) or just something she can try to do with a little effort (power stunt).
 
I think the way you're using "power stunt" is basically just another power grouped under a main power.

For example, one of my characters has Energy Generation/Manipulation. Grouped under and because of that overarching power, he also has Energy Blast, Personal Force Field, Flight, and Radar Sense.

Technically, if I went back into his background, he got Energy Generation/Manipulation along with the Energy Blast Power. If his character sheet were written up at this point, then he would have to develop the other powers as stunts. But at the point I'm writing up the character, he has already learned those other potential powers under his main power, so they're no longer stunts.

That's how I look at it anyway.
 
Dumarest, that's more helpful. Thanks. I'll probably keep the separate powers as they are. tenbones tenbones , any thoughts?
 
Now I need the help of the character modelers. For this new game, three players are rolling up 5 characters each and choosing what they want to play (and subject to a little balancing by the GM). The last player is converting over her character from a previous campaign as the hero who brings this new team together.

I'm going to parse this for easier reading and thoughtful consumption.

We were playing Champions. Aura is basically a lower-powered Green Lantern who makes geometric hard light shapes rather than *anything* like GL.

In Champions, she had Blast, Force Wall, Telekinesis, Entangle, and Killing Attack vs. Non-Organics in a Multipower. She could fly and she had a force field.

Flight is no problem. Energy Solidification seemed to cover the Entangle and Force Wall. The Killing Attack I reduced to just being a Stunt (if it was even needed at all).

I couldn't tell from the Energy Solidification description if it included the Blast and TK. At the moment, I added a separate Kinetic Bolt (at a slightly lower level) and a separate TK power. Is this appropriate or is Energy Solidification that flexible to include all those powers?

Okay easy peasy. GL in Marvel terms - I'd go Energy Solidification, Flight, Energy Emission Force (Stunts: Bolt, Area Effect Blast). Now you COULD fold in the Bolt/Blast into Energy Solidification as a Stunts (but generally I make Stunts -1CS, but I also let players independently raise them in play, but they can't go over the rank of their primary power). When I'm modeling I'm pretty careful to designate which powers come from where. So does the character Fly *because* of their Energy control powers? Or is it adjacent to it? That's what the back and forth is for me. Ask you players how they might see/want it? That will open up possible options for small increases/decreases based on natural limitations...

For example - I had a player with a similar question. He had Hard Radiation Emission and Control, he also had Energy Sheath etc. What we came up with is - the guy was blasting high-energy Radiation, so it would kill everyone around him *unless* he put up his Energy Sheath (which was a byproduct of his radiation control. It both protected him, and everyone FROM him. So I made them two distinct powers, but they had a synergy in that when that Energy Sheath was up, it acted as a "lens" which *magnified* his Radiation Emission to *scary* levels.

So figure out what works for you and the player. Some powers are Stunts of other powers implicitly. Some aren't. Depends on the model of the character itself.

Finally, for the personal force field (a super-common power in Champions but actually not all that common in comics) I chose an Energy Sheath, because "Force Field" in MSH seems to be much wider ranging as a power.

What do you think?

First off - Force Fields in MSH have mechanical side-effects. #1 they can be attacked. You have to establish if the Force-field is personal or Area wide. Force-Fields in Marvel are -10 vs. Physical Attacks. So once it comes down, you need to get it back up or you're going to eat it. #2 Area-wide forcefields if they are attacked and defeated (Intensity Contest) - that character has to make a *Red* Psyche Feat or be KTFO'd from the strain.

So that's some important considerations.

I feel that you should model your characters/NPC's with what makes sense vs. what is "optimal" assuming it matters. Sometimes they're the same thing. Other times they're not. Energy Solidification is a REALLY flexible power. it's easy to model it after TK - which has a massive amount of overlap, but it also is, itself, a thing - it's a form of Energy itself. That might give you some play in terms of dealing with NPC's that can do things with that energy. TK is a little more "tricky" in that arena. Also consider that Energy Solidification means they can make weapons of Power Rank strength. For Edged attacks this is particularly *dangerous* and powerful. :smile:
 
I don't think Champions familiarity is all that necessary for my question. Principally, I was wondering if Energy Solidification as a single power is capable of walls AND capturing people AND attacks AND moving things from a distance.

Sure! But I'd make those Stunts. What you're essentially saying is: Power ranked Strength for Grappling, Attacking, and Lifting/Moving at range. And of course building walls etc.
 
The importance of modeling with your players is it gives them personal understanding of how their powers work in context with their characters vs. looking at them as independent "things" they can simply do without really knowing why. Ideally the goal of modeling is to get your player (and yourself as GM) to know why the PC can do what the PC does. You might not even tell the player during the modeling session, per se, because there might be some underlying reasons that are part of the game...

For instance... I had a player who wanted to have very high-levels of Kinetic Control. He didn't know *why* he had these powers, but I did. We were playing in a DC Influenced Alternate Reality - where the The Endless were in play. He was the descendant of the Endless known as Destruction. Rather than just say - Okay you have Kinetic Control. I created a package of scalable powers that indicated something deeper but presented them as a package I intended to unify as the game went on.

So in this campaign they started as kids. At this level, he had tactile Kinetic Manipulation and Absorption, but some corollaries were this innate ability to feel the flow of Kinetic energy around him. It was like patterns of build-up potential and release, it gave him a nascent form of limited Combat Sense. He instinctively knew how/when a thing moved around him. This manifested as preternatural ability to move super-efficiently when needed. It also gave him a kind of "Radar Sense" - he could *feel* the movement of Kinetic energy around him if he concentrated. So he was an insane athlete. But in times of stress, he could absorb Kinetic energy to influence his own physical feats. So he was a multi-gold medal Olympian by 16. And was a very cool street-level hero (alongside the rest of the group).

When we got everyone into their 20's... his powers grew to overt Kinetic Control where he could fully absorb Kinetic energy directed at him - and later in his immediate area, and use/redirect that energy with an Intensity feat. He could run at Hyperspeed as a stunt, by absorbing the kinetic energy of his own body movements and congeal them into super-efficient energy distribution through running/leaping. He later learned to Stunt focusing his Kinetic pool into bolts of force - HADOUKEN! And low-level Kinetic Force-fields.

By the time he got into his Mid-20's he had a Kinetic Sheath (Mn75) about him. He was constantly absorbing ambient Kinetic energy that enabled him to fly, shoot force bolts, move at hyperspeed, force field (personal), he could absorb kinetic energy (75 points worth) per round, and as an action redirect it. He was capable of *very* powerful attacks. At one point he even tried absorbing the rotational kinetic energy of the Earth itself in his locality to build up a kinetic charge to take out Wendigo... but that was *way* more than he could handle and passed out from the effort, but not before punching Wendigo half a block away.

So anyhow... yeah there's a LOT of ways to skin the cat. You just have to know what you're willing to do with your players to do it.
 
Well. A way to look at it by example is Darkforce control--that one has Energy Solidification.

So it's an easy move to give her Energy Solidification (Light), which includes the following stunts:
• Forming cages or barriers.
• Forming servants to perform desired
tasks.
• Creating Body Armor to protect and
enhance the hero's abilities. (Personal Force Field works as well I.e a solid field of light as "armor")
• At high levels, the hero can build semipermanent
structures at will.

Now Optional powers include Energy Emission or Energy Control. Either one could be set to Light. Which provides the character with the base power Energy Emission (Light) would allow them to generate lasers/energy blasts which can do either force or energy damage (lethal vs non-lethal) A limit "Only for Solid Light Constructs" could be added to Energy Emission--and sticks them with a force bolt effect already. Since a solid bolt of light delivers damage still--It still can destroy machines though and if powerful enough break people too--damage is ALL lethal in MSH unless you take Stunning Missile or something similar it just means you keep pounding at the target. But a THUG (Health: 24? Or so) hit with a solid light bolt, of IN (36), is risking death from broken bones and ruptured organs. (Though a hero can always spend karma to stabilize them or pull their punch)
 
If I recall correctly, a player cannot reduce the effect of an energy attack using Karma, but they can use it at a lower Rank
 
Within reason, should PCs be allowed to start with weapons that have no special powers? For example, a character with decent stats but no real offensive powers carrying a baton or sword?
 
Within reason, should PCs be allowed to start with weapons that have no special powers? For example, a character with decent stats but no real offensive powers carrying a baton or sword?

I've never restricted them, as long as they match the character concept and their Resources. I might ask for more justification for illegal or military hardware, but anyone can pretty much go out and buy a gun or sword or martial arts equipment.
 
Within reason, should PCs be allowed to start with weapons that have no special powers? For example, a character with decent stats but no real offensive powers carrying a baton or sword?

Reminds me of this ridiculously great Punisher cover from the 80s. Frank Castle meant business...

798A7B98-E833-4317-B2E9-AE7C466FB230.jpeg
 
OK you lot. In my endless search for the perfect Superhero RPG, you've got me interested in FASERIP. I've downloaded the Advanced Players Guide and have come up with my first question. What do you actually roll for initiative? I can't spot where it actually tells you what to roll! On p14 it tells you to roll after deciding actions and that the side with the higher roll wins. BUT WHAT DO YOU ACTUALLY ROLL PLEASE!
 
OK you lot. In my endless search for the perfect Superhero RPG, you've got me interested in FASERIP. I've downloaded the Advanced Players Guide and have come up with my first question. What do you actually roll for initiative? I can't spot where it actually tells you what to roll! On p14 it tells you to roll after deciding actions and that the side with the higher roll wins. BUT WHAT DO YOU ACTUALLY ROLL PLEASE!

1d10.
 
OK you lot. In my endless search for the perfect Superhero RPG, you've got me interested in FASERIP. I've downloaded the Advanced Players Guide and have come up with my first question. What do you actually roll for initiative? I can't spot where it actually tells you what to roll! On p14 it tells you to roll after deciding actions and that the side with the higher roll wins. BUT WHAT DO YOU ACTUALLY ROLL PLEASE!

As Endless points out, it's d10 per side. I'd add that the Advanced game was very much written with the assumption readers were already familiar with the basic set. As this is your first swing with the rules I actually highly recommend starting with the Revised basic and then just adding in any elements from Advanced that catch your fancy
 
As Endless points out, it's d10 per side. I'd add that the Advanced game was very much written with the assumption readers were already familiar with the basic set. As this is your first swing with the rules I actually highly recommend starting with the Revised basic and then just adding in any elements from Advanced that catch your fancy
OK, as most of what I read seemed to imply that people were playing Advanced, I just started with this. What happened - TSR got the license for Marvel released a partially completed rule-book [Basic] that was found to be popular so they expanded/filled in the rules making them complete(ish) [Advanced]. Later they re-released the original which provided the actual Base game as it should have been [Basic Revised]?
 
The Basic Set from 1984 is a complete game. Perfectly serviceable. The advanced set just added some complexity, which many people enjoy but many don’t. The 1992 revised basic set is a little better as far as the layout compared to the 1984 edition and has some more goodies in the boxed set. All are great boxed sets and work fine on their own.
 
OK, as most of what I read seemed to imply that people were playing Advanced, I just started with this. What happened - TSR got the license for Marvel released a partially completed rule-book [Basic] that was found to be popular so they expanded/filled in the rules making them complete(ish) [Advanced]. Later they re-released the original which provided the actual Base game as it should have been [Basic Revised]?


Quite the opposite really. The original basic game is incredibly robust and succinct, and more complete in two booklets than many RPGs manage in an entire gameline. The Advanced game is kinda like a cross between a 2nd dition and Uneathed Arcana (ie a repository of advanced options). The only reason I recommend starting with the Revised Basic is that I think it has the most streamlined and straightforward presentation
 
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It is also notable that Intuition ranking has an impact on the initiative. There is a chart. But it is "declare actions first, then roll" system. (I started with the Advanced set and had no trouble picking it up. Though I do think the Revised basic is worth owning.
 
Spectrum isn't in the Handbooks, did he show up in the Marvel Phile possibly?

EDIT: Nevermind, found him:

40530837353_d69a2e4f86_o.png
40530837323_d2626e29cc_o.png
 
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It is also notable that Intuition ranking has an impact on the initiative. There is a chart.
Yes it was the chart that made me wonder what I was meant to roll. Everything up to that point had been a percentile roll, but the modifiers from the initiative table were going to be pretty meaningless. I was trying to work out whether this may have been a feature or whether I'd misunderstood something

I'd also come up with the idea of rolling percentiles and using the universal chart based upon people's intuition and comparing results from this.... which was why I thought that it was easier to ask!
 
I'd also come up with the idea of rolling percentiles and using the universal chart based upon people's intuition and comparing results from this.... which was why I thought that it was easier to ask!


Hey, no worries. It's cool. I've played the game since, uh..1987 or so, and sometimes I still have to look to make sure I'm doing something right. (Mostly because it is not on regular rotation, in my group--having written my own supers RPG, and they have a preference for the card based Marvel so those two come up a lot.)
 
Off topic, but just note how we now have "old threads" on the Pub we can refer to.

Take a second to appreciate the achievement and well done to the mods and organisers.

I've seen so many new forums DOA or slowly limp along until being abandoned that it's amazing to me the Pub managed to take off like it did. I think we found a niche that the online hobby needed, and it's really the great group of regular posters we managed to accumulate that makes the Pub such an awesome forum. So I think a hat's off to all the Pubbers is called for.


Oh, and MSH is great game.

There's a reason this is my favourite coffee mug

mug,standard,x400,right-bg,ffffff.jpg
 
It seems very difficult to randomly roll a brick in MSH. Colossus is difficult but not impossible, while the Thing requires very lucky rolls. On the other hand, landing Spider-Man level strength is pretty easy.
 
It seems very difficult to randomly roll a brick in MSH. Colossus is difficult but not impossible, while the Thing requires very lucky rolls. On the other hand, landing Spider-Man level strength is pretty easy.


I'll be honest; in 30 odd years of playing MSH, I've never used random roll chargen for a game. I've only ever played with it seeing how ridiculous a result I could get out of the Ultimate Powers Handbook.
 
Oh, I roll up characters all the time. Just to create vivid stories in my head. No one runs MSH for me anymore sadly. Although I do prefer modeling as an overall game thing, but random roll has produced a few bricks for me.

I ran "one-shot" that was going to be longer game, just to fill in when my friend canceled his D&D game for a night every now and then and I did fill in duty as GM. One of my friend's kids played a luchador with MN Strength and pretty high body armor, but what made him scary was wrestling and martial arts combo he'd rolled. It was horrendously overpowered and fun. Though if it weren't just fill in game, I'd have worried about it long term. But sadly the other GM canceled the D&D completely ("Too cold") this is Texas, he's lived here most of his life and it wasn't even that bad! Sadly, without people showing for D&D, they stopped showing for MSH too. It wasn't meant to be too serious so not heartbreaking, but just mad silly stuff.
 
OK you lot. In my endless search for the perfect Superhero RPG, you've got me interested in FASERIP. I've downloaded the Advanced Players Guide and have come up with my first question. What do you actually roll for initiative? I can't spot where it actually tells you what to roll! On p14 it tells you to roll after deciding actions and that the side with the higher roll wins. BUT WHAT DO YOU ACTUALLY ROLL PLEASE!

so everyone answered this. While the book says you use Intuition as the modifier. I do it slightly differently. Since the Initiative increment is meaningless other than to say "who goes first", my players would complain that their super-agile characters would invariably lose to people that were nowhere remotely as fast. While I try to explain that someone with high Intuition is anticipating combat and actually pro-actively reacting... it never sat well with them.

So what I do is split the baby down the middle. I just give everyone an Initiative modifier of Intuition + Agility/10. Round down + d10. I've never had a complaint. Everyone feels satisfied. It has *zero* impact on the game except for the occurrence where someone has raised one of their Int/Agi stats. It has the added narrative advantage of being slightly less swingy in term of assumptions WHO should react first..

Daredevil for example is *ridiculous* intuitive, as is Spiderman. Both possess high-agility as well. The fact that their total bonus is +11/+10 on top of a d10, makes sense to everyone that those guys *should* be reacting first in most fights. You get the idea...
 
I've seen so many new forums DOA or slowly limp along until being abandoned that it's amazing to me the Pub managed to take off like it did. I think we found a niche that the online hobby needed, and it's really the great group of regular posters we managed to accumulate that makes the Pub such an awesome forum. So I think a hat's off to all the Pubbers is called for.




There's a reason this is my favourite coffee mug

mug,standard,x400,right-bg,ffffff.jpg
Mother of Galactus! I will have one. I will.
 
so everyone answered this. While the book says you use Intuition as the modifier. I do it slightly differently. Since the Initiative increment is meaningless other than to say "who goes first", my players would complain that their super-agile characters would invariably lose to people that were nowhere remotely as fast. While I try to explain that someone with high Intuition is anticipating combat and actually pro-actively reacting... it never sat well with them.

So what I do is split the baby down the middle. I just give everyone an Initiative modifier of Intuition + Agility/10. Round down + d10. I've never had a complaint. Everyone feels satisfied. It has *zero* impact on the game except for the occurrence where someone has raised one of their Int/Agi stats. It has the added narrative advantage of being slightly less swingy in term of assumptions WHO should react first..

Daredevil for example is *ridiculous* intuitive, as is Spiderman. Both possess high-agility as well. The fact that their total bonus is +11/+10 on top of a d10, makes sense to everyone that those guys *should* be reacting first in most fights. You get the idea...
You're nicer than I am. I'd ask them to explain to me how being agile is the same as having fast reflexes or being perspicacious. Then I'd laugh at their answers and apply Intuition as the modifier.
 
Re: Initiative, my personal variation is to use one of two approaches depending on the situation

Normally, I have opponents declare their action from lowest to highest Initiative, and then complete their actions from highest to lowest. In the odd case of a tie, the opponent with the highest Fighting goes first, or they roll off for it. This is for any spur of the moment, surprise, or freeefor all combat.

If instead this is a planned battle, where two sides are facing each other prepared to fight a concerted attack, then each side elects a Leader, and they roll off against each other, like the standard FASERIP procedure. If one Leader's Intuition is higher than the others, they get a +1 bonus to the roll. If the elected Leader has the Leadership Talent, they double the result of the roll.
 
Re: Initiative, my personal variation is to use one of two approaches depending on the situation

Normally, I have opponents declare their action from lowest to highest Initiative, and then complete their actions from highest to lowest. In the odd case of a tie, the opponent with the highest Fighting goes first, or they roll off for it. This is for any spur of the moment, surprise, or freeefor all combat.

Normally this is the rule for both heroes and villains. Highest initiative gets to act before lowest, and can "read" the battle better (hence they know Goon A is doing things they can see will end up shooting at them.) Which is why intuition has the impact it does. It also prevents agility (already used for missile combat, and dodging) from being the "best" stat, or in other words--a "god stat," where it's more important than other stats. Fighting and Agility already handle a lot of heavy duty work in play. I actually have it as a preference in the game for the initiative because it's saying that the person is a better tactician, and more adept at guessing reading a person's actions. It allows people like Cap, to actually act pretty quickly even to Spider-man (or other super agile foes.) Sure Spider-man also has Spider sense too, but it keeps Cap and those like him from making bad choices in how to act/react in a given situation.
 
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