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What I'd like to see is a weird west which was more like Robert E Howard's supernatural western stories. Not hokey zombies and werewolves but something "straight western" with a hint of the supernatural. Real horror western stuff.For me part of the problem is that it is the exact same weirdness in each game (undead, Native American Werewolves, gamblers with deals with the devil, steampunk, etc). This genre, "Weird West," needs a shot of something new. Or better yet, just stick to a Western that just bypasses all that.
Well, sarsaparilla was available back in the 19th century, and was fairly popular, yeah? From what I’ve heard, people ordering straight up whiskey or the like would be fairly rare in the old west, with stuff like Stone fence being more popular.Did you notice in the example of game play that the two player characters walk up to a bar in a saloon and . . . I kid you not . . .order sarsaparilla?
You're welcome!RPGPub seemed to be dead for me last night, so I couldn't thank you then, so: thank you!
As am I! I'm actually working on my lifepath again. (And I'm close to having recovered over 60% of my earliest lifepath design...thanks to having emailed a very short excerpt. Well, it was some start! Seems like a start was all I needed, though...)I'm super excited!
Yes, cocktails like gin and bitters or whiskey punch are popular in the period, but outlaws sidling up to the bar for sarsaparilla as anything other than comedy relief is just lame.Well, sarsaparilla was available back in the 19th century, and was fairly popular, yeah? From what I’ve heard, people ordering straight up whiskey or the like would be fairly rare in the old west, with stuff like Stone fence being more popular.
When you can have a copy of 3e Boot Hill in your mailbox in a couple of weeks, why bother?I'm honestly not sure what they are going for after reading through the quick start. The system seems to be going for a straight western theme, but the descriptive text says otherwise.
10 days in and they are not even 1/4 of the way to their $20,000 goal. I gather us negative nellies are not the only ones left scratching our heads.
If you don't want to deal with the technology of 1870, why not just set your campaign in 1875?I think it’s good to get the big details right but it’s alright to let relatively small things slide, like allowing a player use a gun invented in 1875 if you playing in 1870 . . .
It's not that it's anachronistic - it's that it's ridiculous, like several other choices made for the game.. . . or allowing them to buy Sarsparilla at a bar.
I think it’s good to get the big details right but it’s alright to let relatively small things slide, like allowing a player use a gun invented in 1875 if you playing in 1870, or allowing them to buy Sarsparilla at a bar.
I dunno. I think Weird West games are ridiculous so what is served at a bar doesn’t matter to me one way or the other.
It's not a question of "allowing," it's the idiocy of using that as an example for your outlaw "posse."I think it’s good to get the big details right but it’s alright to let relatively small things slide, like allowing a player use a gun invented in 1875 if you playing in 1870, or allowing them to buy Sarsparilla at a bar.
Might as well have them order Diet Cokes and sip them through plastic straws then.I dunno. I think Weird West games are ridiculous so what is served at a bar doesn’t matter to me one way or the other.
Might as well have them order Diet Cokes and sip them through plastic straws then.
It is when your example is an outlaw gang, but you're free to accept whatever degree of idiocy you like.I don’t think Sarsparilla is stretching disbelief that you are playing in a Wild West setting.
It is when your example is an outlaw gang, but you're free to accept whatever degree of idiocy you like.
Sarsaparilla could work if your outlaw drinks it as a tonic to quell those headaches that cause him to go on murderous rampages.
I think you may be right. I was going to say Dumarest's suggestion of the Appledumpling Gang err Posse, was on target, but then realized Don Knotts and Tim Conway are probably to edgy.
I think there might (emphasize might) be a place for a lighter, less gritty, mildly anachronistic western with singing cowboys, and comedy action drama. Something to play a game modeled more after Paint Your Wagon, Goin' South, Support Your Local Sheriff, Shakiest Gun in the West etc.
I don't think this game is going for anything like that, or suitable for that. I'm honestly not sure what they are going for after reading through the quick start. The system seems to be going for a straight western theme, but the descriptive text says otherwise.
10 days in and they are not even 1/4 of the way to their $20,000 goal. I gather us negative nellies are not the only ones left scratching our heads.
I don’t think there’s any issue with playing in a slightly cleaned up and idealized West, the issue to me is that is apparently the only option being presented.
I think the solution here would be to offer a range of ‘dials’ like Hite does in Night’s Black Agents. He offers a range of mechanics and advice to help create a spy game ranging from Le Carre, to The Sandbaggers to James Bond.
So you could play the highly romanticized straight shooters of the Hearts of the West B-Westerns or the more gritty but still noble lawmen of the Ford and Mann Westerns; or the ultraviolent outlaws and cynical lawmen of The Wild Bunch and Spaghetti Westerns; or the deglamorized cowboys and murderers of revisionist Westerns like The Culpepper Cattle Co. and Unforgiven.
The Western as a genre has a wide range of styles and approaches, not sure if the designers here just don’t have a deep enough knowledge or if they’ve decided for simplicities sake to narrow the game.
Willful idiocy is still idiocy.I don’t want to call him an idiot. I just think he or them are not shooting for a pure authentic Wild West historical experience. He seems to realize what he did by calling every player group a posse. He’s just doing it how he wants.
Willful idiocy is still idiocy.
Boot Hill is the only one I've played (I'm not counting Deadlands), but I have Coyote Trail, Under Western Skies, and a couple of others that were PWYW. Has anyone experience with any of the others? GURPS or Rolemaster's Outlaw?You’ll always have Boot Hill, the only Western RPG anyone would ever want.
What's their alternate history angle?I have Aces & Eights Reloaded but have yet to play it. If I ever do I will ignore the alternate history stuff. The rulebook is gorgeous.
What's their alternate history angle?
Boot Hill is the only one I've played (I'm not counting Deadlands), but I have Coyote Trail, Under Western Skies, and a couple of others that were PWYW. Has anyone experience with any of the others? GURPS or Rolemaster's Outlaw?
If mentioned above I apologize, it just seems like Boot Hill (any edition) is the gold standard.
What's their alternate history angle?
A classic. I enjoy both Support Your Local Sheriff and Support Your Local Gunfighter. I wish James Garner would have made a dozen of those things.If my repeated mention of this movie, isn't enough of a clue, I love this movie. It is up there with the Outlaw Josey Wales on my list of greats.
A classic. I enjoy both Support Your Local Sheriff and Support Your Local Gunfighter. I wish James Garner would have made a dozen of those things.
Or here's another possibility: he's not very good at this.I don’t want to call him an idiot. I just think he or them are not shooting for a pure authentic Wild West historical experience. He seems to realize what he did by calling every player group a posse. He’s just doing it how he wants.
Or here's another possibility: he's not very good at this.
Totally agree. There is an element of nostalgia in some of my old game fetishism, but 1E Traveller is an exception: They got it so right the first time around that new editions feel pointless to me. If I didn't own 1E I suppose one of the very close revisions (like Mongoose's more recent copy) would be good. But the original basically needs nothing, and is the most concise statement of the game you will find.I'm still happy with the original edition so I'll pass on this. There's really nothing I feel needs to be "improved."
So, we'd better talk about combat. Originally it was all simultaneous and resolved in the order of Situation, Target, Aim, Move, Penetrate. You could opt to shoot first in exchange for everyone getting a bonus to hit you. The tactics pool gave out some free floating modifiers. Cover gave -2 to -6 to be hit and -1 to -3 to hit because it costs you opportunities. Movement was a die modifier. Target Size and Range were modifiers. In the earlier versions the combat system used 2d tasks but we foolishly pushed for the nd6 mechanic to be used and it made things messier. Really that's where the problem is. The combination of modifiers and nd6 difficulty modifiers is messy and confusing. So confusing that the 5.09 combat committee missed that you cant' miss at short range and that moose were still the ultimate weapon in the Galaxy.
Damage is in dice, but divided by type, most apply to Armour but some hit Insulate, Sealed, and around eight other protection values. Armour is subtracted from the damage with whole dice divided among the characteristics by rolling 1d3. There's also hit locations and your armour goes away if its penetrated. Not really unrealistic, ballistic plates shatter when absorbing bullet energy, ablative foam burns away, plasma guns burn everything away and so forth. There was a lot of debate about how damage types are applied. For instance do you apply Bullet -2 Penetrate-1 separately? What's the difference. The official ruling is that each damage type is applied against armour separately but the armour values don't bear this out and the H0 column in the Gun Maker contradicts this ruling entirely. Hit system 0 / 1 was a quick damage for npcs rule that knocks them out of the fighting if they take 10 points of damage from a hit. It makes mooks almost invulnerable. Anyhow, we don't know how this will play out. Melee weapons have been a nonsensical mess from the beginning. Personally it's mostly fixed by saying the damage listed is in points not dice. So Strength Cuts means an average joe does 7 points with a sword not 7 dice. There's a few other issues like some weapons having fixed damages and others having strength based damage. Oh well, I got passed a sneak peak of a fixed up table but whether it's in or out, who can say?
Anyhow, 5.09 combat allows additional shots per round for additional difficulty and makes combat a little more flowing but I've ran it and found it really messy and unfun. As I've said many times, 5.0 needed about a page of clarifications not a total reworking.
The Gun and Armour Makers were included in the combat section originally. They're pretty neat if buggy as hell (for example, the table allows magnum lasers but not heavy and very heavy ones because stuff got printed on the wrong lines) . Basically, you take a basic weapon and apply modifiers which affect its cost, weight and damage. So, for instance you might have an Ultimate Very Heavy Laser Pistol -15 Range 2, Penetrate-2 , Burn -4, 1 kg . The armour system works in a similar fashion. It'll be too much work for some but its no Fire Fusion and Steel (sigh).
I have realized that I can use the Old-School Essentials https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/necroticgnome/old-school-essentials/posts/2502562 with the Trilemma Adventures Compendium https://www.rpgpub.com/threads/kickstarter-trilemma-adventures-compendium.2963/#post-97575. I will have an entire sandbox with new monsters to play in. How crazy is it that in 2019 I can get a brand new copy of the Basic/Expert rules and have new adventures to go with it.
I'm going to interview both creators for EN World. Just finished up talking to Michael Prescott about his maps and adventures and I'm talking to Gavin Norman Saturday morning.