HBO's Watchmen

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Well, I guess that explains why Angela and Cal had no biological children though it puts Laurie's comments about how sexy Cal was in a different light O.o

Veidt's 'trial' didn't disappoint. It grew so surreal that I've started to wonder if he's 'offworld' at all or is this at least partially happening in his head. We saw the technology for effectively crafting full sensory hallucinations exists... and they keep showing the dang statue in Trieu's facility. I still think the Game Warden resembles The Comedian and him standing judgement over Veidt seems appropriate as a punishment fantasy either self created or induced. A fan theory has proposed the Ozy is Trieu's father which does seem to make sense. She definitely has his comic genius. She said her father would be coming shortly so I guess we're see.

Speaking of Trieu, 'm still not sure what to think of her. She clearly vastly intelligence (A suuuuupeeer Gen-ye-us like Veidt) though she seems more stable than him for the most part 'reanimating' her mother is strange though... She doesn't seem quite as aloof as Veidt, I'm fairly sure at this point baby Clark was going into the incinerator if her plan had somehow failed..but she can lie quite convincingly...

I didn't notice until it was mentioned in a thread, the logo for Trieu Pharmaceuticals is an elephant. With the memory driven plot elements, I really wonder what her plan to save humanity is. She regrets people were using Nostalgia to cling to their worst memories and the fears they create, it seems to have something to with TVs and perhaps the mesmerism technology. Does she intend to do something like a global mind wipe, press the reset button for humanity? That would be along the audacious and utterly arrogant mentality that runs in the family so to speak.

Is the 7th K part of things, an opposing faction or just a red herring/cat's paws? Do they really have the ability to harm Dr. Manhattan? These last two episodes are going to be pretty crowded.
 
But we shouldn't get distracted by the minutia. This episode revealed something important.

Veidt does have a power. He can either fart on command or hold one for a year or more.
 
More seriously, two odd questions:

1. Have we seen any men working in Trieu Phama/The Millennium Clock facility

2. Did the 'prosecutor at Ozy's trial wink at him?
 
1. Now that you mention it. . .
2. Yes.

1. I didn't think so either. If so, I wonder is a plot element or just a coincidence.

2. Hm, so was it all part of cunning suuuupeeer geee-yus Xanatos level gambit to escape (Wouldn't exile, to what they think is certain death, from paradise be just punishment...)?

or maybe it was all one of his plays?
 
1. Whenever a super genius in fiction has a "solution" it's usually Captain Nemo level problem solving. LOL
2. I am definitely starting to think it is not what it seems.
 
1. Whenever a super genius in fiction has a "solution" it's usually Captain Nemo level problem solving. LOL
2. I am definitely starting to think it is not what it seems.

I'm definitely feeling there is more to than it seems. The use of unusual time/pacing compared to the core story line seems like a major hint. I admit, I hope Veidt's brutality to clones (or whatever the heck they are isn't presented as OK because he's smarter than they are or something).
 
I'm really thinking allot about the trial scene. Was it all/mostly in Veidt's head, another of his weird plays as the Prosecutor winked at him like she playing along insulting him so aggressively the rest seemed generally torn or nervous. Maybe none of them have a great deal of will, even the Game Warden (who I still think resembles Comedian) and this is all some odd (possibly masochistic) psychodrama he's playing out. Heck, maybe he did this to himself but then who was "Save me D-" intended for? And He's still pretty casually cruel to the clones and he's never been reluctant to sacrifice other 'lesser' being for his plans. so if it was some attempt at repentance it doesn't seem to have worked. But I maybe over thinking this.
 
I'm really thinking allot about the trial scene. Was it all/mostly in Veidt's head, another of his weird plays as the Prosecutor winked at him like she playing along insulting him so aggressively the rest seemed generally torn or nervous. Maybe none of them have a great deal of will, even the Game Warden (who I still think resembles Comedian) and this is all some odd (possibly masochistic) psychodrama he's playing out. Heck, maybe he did this to himself but then who was "Save me D-" intended for? And He's still pretty casually cruel to the clones and he's never been reluctant to sacrifice other 'lesser' being for his plans. so if it was some attempt at repentance it doesn't seem to have worked. But I maybe over thinking this.
I've seen one fan theory that the "Save me D" message was "Save me daughter" and intended for Lady Trieu.
 
I've seen one fan theory that the "Save me D" message was "Save me daughter" and intended for Lady Trieu.

I've read that too and it does seem plausible. Even if he is in space she seems to have the Pulp/comic book rich resources to get to him and even if its something stranger she has the general know how to get to him and she seems to be an admirer.
 
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Wasn't it Joe Kerr, Wayne's brother?

Hadn't heard that one, I recalled Joe King, but Joe Kerr does suit him, no reason he couldn't have used both at some point. Nothing worse than an overused gag. :grin:
 
Well that episode was something. And yes make sure you watch through the end credits.
 
A deep delve into Dr. Manhattan’s non-linear perception of time. Very cool. However, a major flaw.
Dr. Manhattan can be surprised, even though he experiences all time simultaneously. He couldn’t stop the Kennedy Assassination, for example. However, even though he could be surprised by there being one cavalry who uses the Tachyon Cannon, the Tachyon Cannon itself wasn’t a surprise. Therefore he could have simply vaporized it and nullified the threat when he killed all the cavalry.
So, what is the “Tragedy”?
  1. Dr. Manhattan is killed? (The Tachyon Cannon just captured him)
  2. Dr. Manhattan isn’t killed, but their relationship can’t continue because the secret is out?
  3. Dr. Manhattan is killed, but somehow he transfers his power to Angela, so the cavalry can’t steal it, and now she will no longer be human.
 
A deep delve into Dr. Manhattan’s non-linear perception of time. Very cool. However, a major flaw.
Dr. Manhattan can be surprised, even though he experiences all time simultaneously. He couldn’t stop the Kennedy Assassination, for example. However, even though he could be surprised by there being one cavalry who uses the Tachyon Cannon, the Tachyon Cannon itself wasn’t a surprise. Therefore he could have simply vaporized it and nullified the threat when he killed all the cavalry.

Perhaps
What is odd both here and the comics, that despite his ability to see simultaneously the past, present, and future. His choices for the most part are those of somebody who experiences time linearly. For example taking Angela Abar out to dinner is a choice the fact he knew about way back when he emerged in Gila Flats (at the very least after the events of the comics) doesn't explain why it occurs even in a predestined timeline. Or why any of the other thousand and one large and small choices that are made as he lives his life going forward.

If he was a superhero that had a normal sense of time and space then a 7th Kavalry staggering up, grabbing the cannon and teleporting him would indeed be a surprise and a plausible situation.

I personally think that Dr. Manhattan make choices like you and I do, except in his case he see the results cascading down the the future (along with perfect recall of the past). He is powerless to effect change unless it is a situation where something interferes with this foresight. His choices are his choices made at the time that you and I see happen.

It gets very weird very quickly.

If I recall correctly in the comics he couldn't see past the events of 11/2. But since then his normal foresight obviously resumed.
 
The way I’ve always gotten Dr. Manhattan to make sense in my head is that for him there is no Past or Future. He obviously knows what year it is, and knows that linear time exists, but for him it is all happening in the present. At any given moment, he is experiencing his entire existence, in the present. At any given moment, he physically exists at one point in linear time, but to him, his billion points of existence in linear time described by a time and place are all simultaneous. He experiences them all simultaneously. When he describes what he is saying ten years ago or ten years from now, it’s all the same to him, all the present. As a result, he can be surprised, because even though for years he knew the Comedian was going to kill that pregnant woman, there is no future to him, it was all the present, and so he is surprised at the actual moment in linear time. Same thing with Kennedy and Veidt’s Intrinsic Field.
Which is weird about the Tachyon Cannon. I guess you could argue the only way he knew it was a Tachyon Cannon which was going to imprison him, is because he got hit with a Tachyon Cannon and it did imprison him. Still, assuming in the present, you vaporize all the cavalry, it seems a little odd to leave the weird science fiction cannon just sitting there, even if you didn’t know what it did. It obviously is a weapon they think will hurt you, why not vaporize it along with all the cavalry? It just didn’t seem like much of a surprise at all for Dr. Manhattan to be caught by. It almost seemed more like an unchangeable future rather than something he could be caught by.
 
Honestly, it never made sense to me in the comic either. The idea seems to be that he can only make the actions he would have made if he hadn't known the future... but then how can he tell people about the future? Moving his mouth is an action too. It works as a narrative device, but the actual mechanics of it always seemed nonsensical to me.
 
Honestly, it never made sense to me in the comic either. The idea seems to be that he can only make the actions he would have made if he hadn't known the future... but then how can he tell people about the future? Moving his mouth is an action too. It works as a narrative device, but the actual mechanics of it always seemed nonsensical to me.
That brings up an interesting point. Two characters basically talk through time using Dr. Manhattan as the means and he basically creates a causal loop, a paradox. He could have done the same thing and told people about the assassination of JFK, but he would have had to be thinking about it at the time I suppose. He might not be able to stop it, but someone else might.

Dr. Manhattan’s thought processes are just so alien to us, he’s like dealing with the Great Race of Yith.
 
A deep delve into Dr. Manhattan’s non-linear perception of time. Very cool. However, a major flaw.
Dr. Manhattan can be surprised, even though he experiences all time simultaneously. He couldn’t stop the Kennedy Assassination, for example. However, even though he could be surprised by there being one cavalry who uses the Tachyon Cannon, the Tachyon Cannon itself wasn’t a surprise. Therefore he could have simply vaporized it and nullified the threat when he killed all the cavalry.
So, what is the “Tragedy”?
  1. Dr. Manhattan is killed? (The Tachyon Cannon just captured him)
  2. Dr. Manhattan isn’t killed, but their relationship can’t continue because the secret is out?
  3. Dr. Manhattan is killed, but somehow he transfers his power to Angela, so the cavalry can’t steal it, and now she will no longer be human.

Honestly, it never made sense to me in the comic either. The idea seems to be that he can only make the actions he would have made if he hadn't known the future... but then how can he tell people about the future? Moving his mouth is an action too. It works as a narrative device, but the actual mechanics of it always seemed nonsensical to me.

I think it isn't that he can't change things like the tragedy, it is that due to his Godlike viewpoint he doesn't change things. He sees how things will play out and so decides to not resist what is going to happen for his own reasons.
 
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I haven't seen Ep 8 yet but thinking about last week, given Cal's origins its does put his atheism in different light, makes me wonder even more if that will be a plot point.

Is Watchmen an ongoing or limited series? The way its creators play with opening credits was one of the aspects that made me think Limited series but I haven't seen if definitely said one way or the other (I don't read much about the show online to avoid spoiling myself).
 
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A deep delve into Dr. Manhattan’s non-linear perception of time. Very cool. However, a major flaw.
Dr. Manhattan can be surprised, even though he experiences all time simultaneously. He couldn’t stop the Kennedy Assassination, for example. However, even though he could be surprised by there being one cavalry who uses the Tachyon Cannon, the Tachyon Cannon itself wasn’t a surprise. Therefore he could have simply vaporized it and nullified the threat when he killed all the cavalry.
So, what is the “Tragedy”?
  1. Dr. Manhattan is killed? (The Tachyon Cannon just captured him)
  2. Dr. Manhattan isn’t killed, but their relationship can’t continue because the secret is out?
  3. Dr. Manhattan is killed, but somehow he transfers his power to Angela, so the cavalry can’t steal it, and now she will no longer be human.
I like #3 since they brought up the possibility in the bar conversation.
 
Thanks for the heads up on the end credit scene!! Please tell me they haven't been doing that this whole time!!
 
I did like the scene with Doc and Adrian, Doc and Hooded Justice, and really the whole in and out of time conversations .
 
This show is proof that the writers delved, not just into the story and mythos of the original series, but also deconstructed how elements of the story were presented to serve the story. They acknowledge the craft that Moore employed to write the original Watchmen and are paying homage, reflecting, interpreting, and creating a story that is both recognizable but mysterious and thought provoking.

Rob
 
This show is proof that the writers delved, not just into the story and mythos of the original series, but also deconstructed how elements of the story were presented to serve the story. They acknowledge the craft that Moore employed to write the original Watchmen and are paying homage, reflecting, interpreting, and creating a story that is both recognizable but mysterious and thought provoking.

Rob
He will likely never watch it but I am 75% sure that if Moore saw this show, he'd throw a wry smile overall and appreciate it for how it carries on his work.
 
I found it fascinating as explanation of some of the events happening behind the scenes and a further examination of Dr. Manhattan. His mindset an even abilities (IMO, He looked more Godlike here than in the original series he most zapped things and teleported). Even his lack of imagination. Even I could think of ways he could saved himself and Angela with his abities, but his will, perhaps his imagination see shaped by the demands of causality.
 
I am wondering if he was (is) suicidal. Like after all those decades detached from humanity, he just wanted walk as a mortal man again and then cease to be.

Also, I don't believe him and Angela talking about transferring his powers wasn't just casual conversation.
 
Well, overall I'm hugely impressed by the series so far. The acting, cinematography, editing, music...all of that is Grade A Top Telly, on a par with my favourite shows of all time. It was episode 7 before I felt that the story started to "clunk" a little, as things started pushing towards the necessary reveals and inevitable wrap-ups. That's more a feature of the medium, though it remains to be seen how successfully they steer the ship through the last episode.

I'm also guessing the last episode will give the lie as to whether this is ongoing or not. The HBO website does say "Season Finale", so there's that scant evidence to go on.

It's a thoughtful and fantastically well made extrapolation of the "end-state" from the comic series, and any issues I have so far are either minor (the villains are shit) or might end up resolved tomorrow night.
 
Looks like Season 2 is a maybe.

Producers are planning to reconvene after the holidays to decide whether Watchmen Season 2 is happening:

“We’re all planning on taking a breath over the holidays and seeing where to go from there… If the idea is right, and if there is a compelling reason to do it, then I’d consider it. I haven’t had that idea yet.”
 
Well, that doesn't sound too hopeful, but I suppose we shall see in good time.

For me, The Comedian was the big piece of the puzzle that was missing, so exploring his legacy is something I could get behind. That, or picking up the Night Owl breadcrumbs dropped in an earlier episode.
 
Also, I don't believe him and Angela talking about transferring his powers wasn't just casual conversation.

That was a very prominent info dump, remember the Calvary’s plan is to not just destroy Manhattan but to destroy him and steal his power. That conversation sets up how they can do it.

But if Veidt wasn’t able to figure out a way to destroy Manhattan I very much doubt the Calvary has, I think their plan will backfire spectacularly in the last episode, perhaps that is the ‘tragedy’ that Manhattan has foreseen.
 
I am wondering if he was (is) suicidal. Like after all those decades detached from humanity, he just wanted walk as a mortal man again and then cease to be.

Also, I don't believe him and Angela talking about transferring his powers wasn't just casual conversation.

Me either, that felt like too much of 'gun on the mantel piece" to be off hand so did the comment that Angela needed see him on the water.
 
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