Seeding Magic Items

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Tommy Brownell

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So when planting magic items in your campaigns, do you tend to plant them by design? Do you just roll on random tables? Do you make sure to seed items that are useful to your PCs? Or is it all luck of the dice?
 
I tend to prefer useless and annoying magic items, so their appearance is generally random, accompanying appropriate situations.
 
I'm not gonna lie, I'm not even sure if you're being sarcastic or not.

What prompted this question was a player in a Facebook group complaining because his character is all about halberds, but his DM dropped a magic axe into the campaign, tied to a monster they are having to destroy and he was miffed because it didn't fit his character build.
 
I'm not gonna lie, I'm not even sure if you're being sarcastic or not.

Not at all - my overall motto is "magic has a cost"

What prompted this question was a player in a Facebook group complaining because his character is all about halberds, but his DM dropped a magic axe into the campaign, tied to a monster they are having to destroy and he was miffed because it didn't fit his character build.


They expected a magic item customized to them? That's...bizarre
 
Not at all - my overall motto is "magic has a cost"




They expected a magic item customized to them? That's...bizarre

4e used to make it explicit that you should be entitled to give the DM a list of magic items you wanted and they should ensure you find them over the course of the campaign. I don't remember if it was in the PHB, DMG, DMG II or what.
 
4e used to make it explicit that you should be entitled to give the DM a list of magic items you wanted and they should ensure you find them over the course of the campaign. I don't remember if it was in the PHB, DMG, DMG II or what.

I wasn't looking for another reason to hate that edition...
 
Well, I really hate the magic store trope and indeed hate the general store in fantasy.

So, I believe magic items should be pretty significant and I believe that the player characters own abilities should matter more than the item. A magic sword may make a farm boy into a hero but it just makes the hero into a hero with a magic sword.
 
4e used to make it explicit that you should be entitled to give the DM a list of magic items you wanted and they should ensure you find them over the course of the campaign. I don't remember if it was in the PHB, DMG, DMG II or what.

I feel this premise gets warped a lot in the retelling, so I hunted down the exact text which causes so much wringing of hands and fear that players are so entitled.

D&D 4e DMG p.125 said:
The trickiest part of awarding treasure is determining what magic items to give out. Tailor these items to your party of characters. Remember that these are supposed to be items that excite the characters, items they want to use rather than sell or disenchant. If none of the characters in your 6th-level party uses a longbow, don’t put a 10th-level longbow in your dungeon as treasure.

A great way to make sure you give players magic items they’ll be excited about is to ask them for wish lists. At the start of each level, have each player write down a list of three to five items that they are intrigued by that are no more than four levels above their own level. You can choose treasure from those lists (making sure to place an item from a different character’s list each time), crossing the items off as the characters find them. If characters don’t find things on their lists, they can purchase or enchant them when they reach sufficient level.

The premise is that players should be excited about magic items. The easiest way to have them be excited is to give them something they want and can use. One of the easiest ways to find out what they want is to have them just give you a list.

It isn't presented as a mandatory thing players should expect. It isn't presented as mandatory treasure the DM has to provide. It is general and workable advice.
 
Of course, the internet is the extremes of reactions, but I've read a ton of horror stories from players mad that the DM didn't honor their lists, or from DMs whose players wanted to lynch them for the same, because of that text.

But I could see the guy that inspired this question being a 4e player who 100% expected any magic items he found to coincidentally be exactly what he needed. Not saying that is the case, but that would check out.
 
I see the issue - it was phrased badly. Here's how that should read:

The trickiest part of dealing with random "treasures" found in a dungeon or tombs determining what magic items are present. Remember that these items were crafted by strangers to the characters for unknown purposes. Remember that magic is unpredictable and dangerous, and magic items should terrify the characters, as they are eldritch curiosities they will want to be constantly wary of. Regardless of the character's level, the crafting of a magic item takes immense power that they are inevitably ill-equipped to deal with.

A great way to make sure you keep magic items from being boring or thought of as "candy" or "rewards" is to instill them with unknown curses as traps, or have them bound to a demonic spirit with a will of it's own. During character creation, have each player write down a list of three to five phobias that they are interested in role-playing out, and see if you can incorporate these into any magic items found. If a character wants a magic item that is tailored to their needs, have them go through the incredibly difficult and time-consuming process of learning how to craft and enchant them, or pay the extortionist payments (often including dangerous missions) demanded by powerful artificers to craft it for them, hoping that he doesn't betray them
 
I actually, much like in High Valor, have players items get "gifts" as they use them and change the world. Occasionally, I'll throw in something random, but it is rare. Mostly because I like the items to fit the PC's, and be something they can make use of and enjoy.
 
I like to have rules that allow for the PC's to make their own signature items.
For instance, in Savage Worlds I allow the players to spend their raises, on giving their equipment magical abilities.

What they find while adventuring, I always determine by rolling on random tables.
I feel this gives the best of both worlds.
 
I'm getting kind of annoyed by the lack of finesse magic weapons in my current game. Everyone has a magic weapon except me and my character is built for using Dex but everything we find is something else. Axe, mace, spear, longsword,. We've actually traded a couple because i'm so much worse with even a magic weapon than my non-magic finesse weapons. Not a major issue but it can be a bit vexing at 9th level.
 
This is where my love of Earthdawn comes in. Great events, powerful magic and fantastic deeds created many of the powers of many magic items of note. The history of these items are what campaigns can be built around. Rarely do you pick up an item and wield its power. You need to find out its history and perform great deeds to unlock their powers.

No random tables. No magic shops. As mentioned above by TristramEvans TristramEvans these items were crafted by strangers for unknown purposes. Only by learning about these strangers, their deeds and purpose can you weild their magic items.
 
I'm getting kind of annoyed by the lack of finesse magic weapons in my current game. Everyone has a magic weapon except me and my character is built for using Dex but everything we find is something else. Axe, mace, spear, longsword,. We've actually traded a couple because i'm so much worse with even a magic weapon than my non-magic finesse weapons. Not a major issue but it can be a bit vexing at 9th level.
Bah, Finesse Weapons are cheating anyway. :devil:
 
This is where my love of Earthdawn comes in. Great events, powerful magic and fantastic deeds created many of the powers of many magic items of note. The history of these items are what campaigns can be built around. Rarely do you pick up an item and wield its power. You need to find out its history and perform great deeds to unlock their powers.

No random tables. No magic shops. As mentioned above by TristramEvans TristramEvans these items were crafted by strangers for unknown purposes. Only by learning about these strangers, their deeds and purpose can you weild their magic items.
Earthdawn got so many things right simply by taking D&Disms and attempting to make them work within setting context. A really underrated game.
 
Bah, Finesse Weapons are cheating anyway. :devil:

Personally, I think they should have been a weapon subset - simple, martial, finesse. The finesse group is fundamentally to boost rogue combat ability IMO any way, so just go the whole hog and make them a category of weapon rather than a quality.
 
Personally, I think they should have been a weapon subset - simple, martial, finesse. The finesse group is fundamentally to boost rogue combat ability IMO any way, so just go the whole hog and make them a category of weapon rather than a quality.
Yeah, if you’re not going to zoom in more and leave it at Simple and Martial, breaking out Finesse makes more sense.
 
Personally, I think they should have been a weapon subset - simple, martial, finesse. The finesse group is fundamentally to boost rogue combat ability IMO any way, so just go the whole hog and make them a category of weapon rather than a quality.
So why can't I sneak attack with a great axe anyway?
 
I do hate the trivialization of magic items. Even in High Magic worlds, I want them to be interesting and not mundane.

As for magic weapons: if a character has a concept tied around a halberd, and they WANT a magic halberd, then they can go looking for one, or pay some gold for a magic-blacksmith to convert one (ie, tie it to a long stick, haha).

THAT BEING SAID, I do love the Magic Item Shopping rules in Xanathar's Guide. I had a lot of fun with those.
 
So why can't I sneak attack with a great axe anyway?
That's an excellent question in light of the ambiguities around HP.

In my case, I'm going with whatever makes sense at the moment. In the hussle and bustle of melee combat? By the rules (light or finesse weapons only). If against a totally unaware, helpless target? Go ahead an smash their skull like a melon with that Great Hammer.
 
My magic items are unique, used by someone or abandoned a long time ago.

They don't come with a manual and players won't know what they do at first without casting identify.

My players were perplexed when they took an Amulet of Rat Control from a kobold shaman, then they figured out that giant rats were useful scouts / trap finders.
 
My general rule with magic items is that the more they break the laws of the universe, the bigger the (potentially negative) side-effect(s). As for tailoring them to PCs, I don't. I definitely custom make them, but I don't factor in character's "builds" or player's preferences. That said, I don't tend to make items that are specialized to a particular type of character; chances are that anyone can find some use for the item. "Magic items" in my games tend to be more more like relics and artifacts, not just slightly superior masterwork items with a +5% bonus here or there.

Secondary to that however, I do allow character's to imbue personal objects with a bit of their own power as they achieve great deeds; e.g. In my Magic World game (ie. Stormbringer 6th ed.) I borrowed an empowered item system that somebody posted on BRP Central. Effectively, if players roll a 01 on a skill test, characteristic roll, resistance roll, or land a critical hit that fells an opponent in a single blow, they can sacrifice a point of their POW and empower an object to gain a small bonus (+5% up to four times) -- the character's intense belief, coupled with some cosmic force of Fate or Chance intervening, brings an item to "life" and it grows thereafter (up to a certain point). Thematically I like this approach because it models the way people can mythologize and fetishize mundane objects associated with a legendary person, and secondly it gives characters the option to gain a small edge with a little bit of personal sacrifice and makes for a deeper more personal attachment to the object in question.
 
It varies by campaign, but in D&D and RuneQuest I do use random generation. I will pick and place some items with intention, sometimes even for the benefit of a specific PC. In my OD&D campaign, you can but scrolls and potions. In RQ there are some potions you can buy.

In my Cold Iron campaigns, most of the magic items in "treasure" were being used by the monsters, sometimes they were useful to PCs and sometimes not. There was a necromancer who could make charged items. He gave each of his undead anti-magic shell charged items that were as cheap as he could make them. The PCs kept a few and dumped the rest. I also ran a full magic shop in Cold Iron and there is a lot of strategic choice on the part of players to purchase items that were of the most use to them. Since most of the magic items in Cold Iron are single use (potions) or charged, with the main exception being magic weapons and armor, I really liked the treasure economy. Players didn't rack up huge lists of magic items like my high school AD&D game to the point where there were items that never got used. At one point in that campaign I convinced the players to prune their magic items, tossing more than half.

I only ever came up with one or two magic items for my Burning Wheel campaign.
 
I do hate the trivialization of magic items. Even in High Magic worlds, I want them to be interesting and not mundane.
Especially in high magic worlds.
In low magic worlds the magic items should be terrifying and awe-inspiring even to their wielders. Or especially to them:devil:.
 
Any magic item I plant is going to be very rare and deliberately placed. Some of them have no earthly use to the player characters, but are sufficiently important that they can 'cash in' on them somehow. Thus, a relic, perhaps the "Wonder Working Finger of the Most Holy Antwelm the Least." becomes an object to find in its own right. Not because it is necessarily useful to the player characters, but because it has gone missing from the Shrine to Antwelm and the priests thereof will happily pay to have it back.
 
What prompted this question was a player in a Facebook group complaining because his character is all about halberds, but his DM dropped a magic axe into the campaign, tied to a monster they are having to destroy and he was miffed because it didn't fit his character build.
Jesus, talk about entitlement. The player can't just wait till he can take a halberd proficiency.
Not at all - my overall motto is "magic has a cost"
Words to live by. In fact, my notion of a cursed magic item is something like like Stormbringer, where the power of the item has a really high cost. I don't have +1 swords and I don't have -1 swords.
4e used to make it explicit that you should be entitled to give the DM a list of magic items you wanted and they should ensure you find them over the course of the campaign.
That fills me with loathing.
The premise is that players should be excited about magic items. The easiest way to have them be excited is to give them something they want and can use. One of the easiest ways to find out what they want is to have them just give you a list.
That's a little better, but it's still very much against how I like to game.

In answer to the OP question, every magic item is special and deliberate. I never use tables to generate them; each one is original. I try to make them fun and not overpowered...except for the Resurrection Blade, which raises anyone from the dead if you chop off one of their limbs. That one is a little game breaking, but in a fun way.
 
In answer to the OP question, every magic item is special and deliberate. I never use tables to generate them; each one is original. I try to make them fun and not overpowered...except for the Resurrection Blade, which raises anyone from the dead if you chop off one of their limbs. That one is a little game breaking, but in a fun way.
I'm curious what game system? In any edition of D&D I've played or contemplated playing (basically anything pre-2e) the assumption has been common enough magic items that customizing every one of them would have been a nightmare.

In RuneQuest I could in some ways envision customizing them, on the other hand, there are several generic magic items that really are part of the game (POW storage crystals, spell matrices) that customizing each of those would be too much.

Now in Burning Wheel, customization of each magic item would not be an issue (so long as you don't count some of the pseudo magic items on the equipment list).
 
A little long but bear with me. As a further example of magic items and the player characters who don't use them in my world, in the most recent fantasy game I ran, our heroes, such as they are, had solved a murder case. In that case, the heroes concluded, wrongly, that some stolen money had been fed to a trained circus bear as a way of hiding the loot. (Wrong, it had already been spotted and palmed by one of the party members, but it is not my job as GM to point this out.) However, because the players were clearly engaged with the clues and thinking about the material, they had to have some sort of reward, and so the characters were encouraged to feed the bear some bran and to sit down to wait. The bear eventually erupts in front of a group of peasants, while the cleric in the party is preaching, and this sets off a minor religious conversion. The player characters know how much is missing and know there should be more. So they keep the bear by them.

In the meanwhile, the characters were sent by their patron to go to the Elves (not a kindly bunch, but the traditional foes of the senders) to see if they could find out what happened to "Wonder Working Finger." The Elves did not try to kill our heroes out of hand, which should have been a clue, because they needed someone to go and retrieve the magical "Big Axe of Elf-Smiteage," which could only be used by certain individuals (not our heroes), before it fell into what the Elves considered to be the wrong hands. The Elves spotted the bear for what it was, and encouraged the player characters to feed it more bran. The Elves promise to tell the player characters everything they know about the Wonder Working Finger and its Whereabouts in exchange for the axe.

The player characters, bear in tow, set out to retrieve the magical Big Axe from a group of kobolds, who can't use it either. Along the way, the player characters encounter Gorrab the Goblin (who is really an orc, but I often use the terms interchangeably.) Gorrab is out to retrieve the same axe for his chief, but thinks this is a raw deal. He spots the bear for what it is, and advises the player characters on how to take better care of it. The bear erupts again, and Gorrab retrieves this money, and uses it to rent the bear from the party for his attack on the kobolds.

The players decide that the thing to do is let Gorrab and his friends take care of the kobolds, and then take care of any survivors. Gorrab and his lads and the bear wade into battle, with the player characters following cheerfully behind, and shooting anybody, except the bear, in the back as the opportunity offers. By the end of the battle the remaining kobold surrenders the axe to Gorrab and his one remaining companion.

The players decide they don't like the odds of half-a-dozen or so intact adventurers versus wounded Gorrab and friend, and so decide to swap the bear (which they still believe is a limited resource) in exchange for the magic axe. They take the axe to the Elves, who are suitably grateful, and who proclaim them "friends of the Elves" and who then tell them that they never had the Wonder Working Finger, but that through divination they discovered that it was being held in the castle of (named villain) in the main city of the Kingdom they just left. In the last big battle against the humans, they did capture the (non-magical) reliquary in which the finger was held. This the Elves gladly turned over.

So the path is: Magical Silver Pooping Bear (quantitative easing for the win!) --> Magic Axe --> Non-Magical Box. One of the players asked which finger of Most Holy Antwelm was involved, and I said, "the middle one of course."
 
I'm curious what game system? In any edition of D&D I've played or contemplated playing (basically anything pre-2e) the assumption has been common enough magic items that customizing every one of them would have been a nightmare.
I do this for any fantasy game I play, at least for the content that I create i.e. I don’t rewrite published adventures that much when I use them.

It’s really not that bad. First of all, it only takes me about 5 minutes or less per item unless it’s central to the situation. Second, I’m not a Monty Hauler, so I don’t dole out a lot of magic items. I prefer to focus on quality over quantity. You’ll never see a +X item that I designed. Anything I put in the game is meant to be memorable. I try to make that true even for mundane treasure - I love when a player wants to keep a bit of jewelry or a fine wine they found.
 
Our D&D GM has something called 'Gnome-Mart' that shows up randomly and offers a wide variety of slightly used or never-tested items... buyer beware! It works for his flavor of gonzo.
Outside of that, I've always loathed the idea of the 'magic store'... unless it was selling folk magic items, like herbs and shady medicinal concoctions. I mean, sure, there are lots of grifters trying to sell you magic rings and talismans... but it's all snake-oil.

I'm another who derived a lot of inspiration from Earthdawn. Where such things are rare, personal and not easily obtained... and having it doesn't automatically mean you can use it. In addition to each item carrying a chunk of story/adventure, it makes magic items feel a LOT more magical... rather than finding Excalibur, Stormbringer, and Mjolnir in a discount bin or under a rat midden.
 
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So when planting magic items in your campaigns, do you tend to plant them by design? Do you just roll on random tables? Do you make sure to seed items that are useful to your PCs? Or is it all luck of the dice?

A little of all four.

I tend to tailor items to my setting, and then (like option 1) plant a few specialized ones within specialized areas (like a trident in coral reef caves). Generalized tailor items end up on a Random Table list (like option 2). If PCs are going through a contextual campaign, let's say many water levels, then yes I seed more contextually helpful drops, like Potions of Waterbreathing (so option 3). And when I am tired or want to shake things up I let the dice decide from already published lists (so option 4).

They are all tools to finesse the atmosphere for me. Some published stuff does save me time, especially noun phrase tables (like Diablo-esque adjective-fests "glowing tangerine belt of amelioration"). But I prefer to DIY for setting context reasons and flavor.

I could not stand 4e DnD "magic lists" recommendation, which due to Org Play mathe-magics became de facto expected practice. Supposedly it was critical to endure the inflationary treadmill as you ran up the tiers. I just couldn't. I still can't. It is aesthetic anathema to me.

However I do allow Fine and Excellent craftsmanship to be enchanted! That helps personalize some gear choices. If you can find an artisan of enough skill, you can check if they've made and have available any fine or excellent goods. Then you can take those to an enchanter of whatever spells they have known. Makes it a bit of work in travel and networking, but if you want a Wicker Picnic Basket enchanted with rechargeable 3 hr Cantrip of Pleasant Breeze it is doable over campaign investment.
 
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For 5e, I use page 142-143 to make 'mundane' magic items unique.
 
If we are just talking about D&D, this is why I feel weapon focuses actually make fighters seem weaker. In an edition like B/X, Fighters are the class that can pick up any weapon and use it. That's one of their main features. When you add a feat that gives +1 with a type of weapon, every fighter feels obliged to take it, and then for all intents and purposes, that becomes their baseline. They now feel like they are -1 with every other weapon.

It's a case where you are adding more options in character generation and advancement, but in a way that narrows the choices the player makes during play.

That said, the player is still being ridiculous. Fine. The magic weapon is geared towards fighting one particular monster. You now have the means to damage it, but your fighting skills will be slightly sub-optimal for that one fight.
 
I don't like the idea that you should expect a particular magic item. But then I also think it's somewhat against the spirit of D&D to put characters into the position of overspecialising in particular weapons. It's why I'm against the idea of any kind of D&D that has things like weapon specialisation. Because the whole fun of magic weapons is finding something cool and possibly unexpected and you completely lose that if you just pick magic weapons off a list to go with your "build".

Part of the fun of D&D is having a character that is unique through play. It was one of the big issues for me in 3E and 4E, where the character which had been played for a year, was functionally indisinguishable fron one that had just been created at that level. (Which lessens the investment in a particular character and in some cases leads to regular pc switching).

On the other hand, I've seen enough dick advice on ENworld for handling the Sharpshooter and Great Weapon Master feats in 5e that basically amounts to - "nothing says I have to give out magic hand crossbows' or Greatswords' to make me wary. The player comes out of the example in the OP sounding like an entitled pain in the arse, but one wonders if the GM bothered to have a conversation with the player about expectations at the start of the game.

Personally, I think a halberd is an interesting enough choice, that if a player was really into it that I'd probably throw something the players way at some point - but it wouldn't necessary be exactly what the player wanted - it might be me pointing out that the magic dwarven battle axe that the player had just found could possibly be remounted on a longer haft, but it would take finding a master dwarven weaponsmith and convincing him to do it for you.

In any case, if I was intending only random treasure drops, I'd be pointing out clearly to the players at the start of the game that I'd be doing that, and that they might have to wait a while for unusual or exotic weapons, so they could choose how to make their character fully informed.
 
Since the world preexists the PCs and doesn't care who the PCs are or revolve around their desires, any items of interest they find certainly aren't tailored to them. But magic is rare and all magical items are unique and hopefully interesting.

If a player presented me with a wish list, I would have to assume I did a terrible job explaining the setting and how I run games.
 
Even Magic Items that the Party cannot use are useful, as they can be traded for other Magic Items. So, you have a +4 Halberd, or whatever, you just trade that with someone who has a +4 Battleaxe.

There should be Ye Magic Item Trader posters in Inns, Taverns, Brothels and Adventurers' Guilds.
 
Personally, I like GURPS, where magic items tend to the bespoke. Made by someone for a purpose. And much less generic. Like the knight in a game we played who fumbkes and broke his great sword three times. So when the opportunity to get a magic o e came about, he got it +1 to hit and damage, and Unbreakable.

Another time, another player. Legend of the Five Rings this time. He pestered me for ages, saying g how much he wanted a Bloodsword. Which is basically Stormbringer Lite. The more you kill, the more powerful it gets. Only it also makes you more violent t and unpredictable, as the attack and damage bonus is also the baseline target number to resist taking the violent option over other choices.

He didn't like that bit.

Unlike the guy who picked up a Chaos Champion's demon sword in Warhammer. That guy totally got into it, became a Preist to better resist the demon temptations and to stop it falling back into the hands of Chaos. And really bought in to the idea of the cursed but powerful item.
 
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