What can you tell me about Warhammer Fantasy (1e), the setting, and adventures?

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So in trying to decide what to replace my bi-weekly Traveller campaign with and coming to the conclusion that Cold West Iron Marches might be a hard sell, I'm exploring options.

One thing I'm coming to a conclusion about is that I need a reasonably detailed setting that is also easy to absorb. I don't have time to create my own sandbox setting (I could maybe manage a West Marches style "adventure is not in town, seek adventure in the wilds" setting, but not a rich setting. I'm pretty sure I don't have the energy to get into Tekumel. Even Talislanta would be tough (though it IS more European than Tekumel, it still isn't terrestrial). So another option on the list is WHFRP's Old World. It's unashamedly fantasy European so while I know little about it other than skimming stuff (and having at one time owned almost everything for 1e in print, now sold, but I did do the Bundle of Holding so I have plenty in PDF form), I feel like I could absorb it quickly.

Now one option would be to see if the setting would attract people to Cold Iron which I think COULD do the setting OK. Clearly things would change with a different game system but I wouldn't hit as much reliance on magic that works totally differently like I hit with other settings.

Another option would be to just go whole hog and run WHFRP.

So a big question is how amenable are things to sandbox style? My impression that might be horribly wrong is that the adventures are adventure path at best, railroad at worst. Of course such can be salvaged into cool locations for a sandbox. Another issue could be that I'm not really that great at running multi-threaded conspiracies and if that's what folks would expect from WHFRP or the setting, then that would be a problem for me.

So tell me about the game, the setting, and the adventures. What do you find cool about them? What do you find troublesome? What is the structure of the game, setting, and adventures?
 
The Old World is one you can sandbox in.

1st Edition Warhammer Fantasy is quite distinct to the Warhammer Fantasy world that came later. There are fewer Chaos gods, but one you don't hear about any more (Malal). The bestiary contains a lot of generic monsters and far fewer of the iconic Warhammer ones. Fimir are in there, which is cool.

The game hasn't changed much (except for the prolonged mistake that was 3rd edition) and 1st Edition is very much the unrefined, raw version of the rules. It has some D&D holdovers, like alignment, which you don't need.

The heart of the game is the career paths, which are delightfully unbalanced and fun.

They might be your best tool for building a campaign, because where many of the adventures assume the party has all but abandoned their former jobs in order to make their fortune, I've had success with groups who wanted their characters to keep their jobs and the game became a sort of fantasy version of the Deadwood tv show, with events taking place across the few frontier towns and the wilderness where the party lived, worked, had family, friends and plenty of enemies.

The big pre-written multi-book arcs (Enemy Withing and Doomstones, etc.) are probably not what you want, but there have been plenty of small scenarios released and collected (Plundered Vaults) over the years. These could likely be used to put together interesting encounters and hooks.

What else would you want to know? Anything more specific?
 
I just want to comment on thr campaigns. The first book of The Enemy Within is phenomenal. The second book is pretty good, but the buy-in/plot hooks may go over the players’ heads, depending on the careers they have and how you’ve played up the magic users of the setting. The final book has a major, if easily rectifiable, problem with a random encounter table, but aside from that it’s great.



Meanwhile, Something Rotten in Kislev is so bad it actually spawned a new category of bad game modules in my mind, and I have a little article I wrote for myself and add onto whenever I encounter an egregious module that mirrors Something Rotten in Kislev’s terribleness.



Similarly, I find the Doomstones campaign to be fun, until you get to the final book. Between giant plot holes, nonsensical moments that are to test players morality, a possible ending that feels like a Disney movie, and more....Whenever someone tells me Robin Laws can do no wrong I point to it and say “Nope.”



I won’t even get started on A Private War.



So, yeah, I’d stick to the short scenarios unless you want to do major work.
 
One of the questions I have is whether folks who dig on the setting would be open to any other game system. One of my reasons for cracking open my WHFRP PDFs is a "gee, is this a setting that I could use to attract Cold Iron players?" Cold Iron is what I really want to play, but it's becoming clear that trying to sell it to folks when they have never heard of it before and I'm just offering some home brew setting they haven't heard of either is not going anywhere fast. And I don't have the kind of dedicated gaming group that would be an easy sell: "Hey let's try this next!" With online gaming, it's easy to just move on to the next game. Also, the Traveller players I have don't seem much interested in fantasy.

Part of me is interested in checking out the system, on the other hand, I'm starting to get weary of learning new systems as a GM (more open to it as a player). The setting would be new also, but at least has a more familiar feel.

I hear you on the thought of the PCs holding down jobs and doing "adventuring on the side". The system definitely could facilitate that kind of play, though that's a campaign structure I've never done before.

Doomstones - interestingly I have sets #3 and #4 of The Complete Dungeon Master that are an earlier version of the Doomstones campaign.
 
I don't know Cold Iron, but WFRP 1st Edition is a hell of a cool game, product of it's time though it may be. The core book is chock full too, though it is quite out of date if you care about the way the setting was redefined over the years.

It also has almost enough mohawks! Later editions are lacking in those.

The campaign I ran was actually with 2nd Edition, but the two aren't world's apart. Actual "adventures" ceased after about the twelfth session, because at that point they were so embroiled in all the plots, schemes and personalities in the area that going off to fight monsters seemed needlessly risky. Only one player character was a true combatant (a protagonist, professional fight starter) and the rest decided dangerous ventures outside of town weren't worth it, especially when lots of interesting stuff was going on in town.

Sure, orcs and such were still a threat when they travelled, but most of play time was spent trying to gain money, status or screw with their many rivals. Some were outlawed at one point, so they went into the woods. They were not pleased.
 
Meanwhile, Something Rotten in Kislev is so bad it actually spawned a new category of bad game modules in my mind, and I have a little article I wrote for myself and add onto whenever I encounter an egregious module that mirrors Something Rotten in Kislev’s terribleness.
I don't think the Kislev book is bad... it's just not a good fit for the wider campaign they tried to cram it into. On its own it is a fun take on Russian folklore with some nasty little adventures.

One book I like from Second edition is Renegade Crowns, which is a kit for constructing small kingdoms in the 'Border Princes' area... which is wilder and rougher area on the edge of human civilization. So it sits between the pre-fab setting and a homebrew, but of course takes more work to make use of.
 
I don't think the Kislev book is bad... it's just not a good fit for the wider campaign they tried to cram it into. On its own it is a fun take on Russian folklore with some nasty little adventures.

One book I like from Second edition is Renegade Crowns, which is a kit for constructing small kingdoms in the 'Border Princes' area... which is wilder and rougher area on the edge of human civilization. So it sits between the pre-fab setting and a homebrew, but of course takes more work to make use of.

Renegade Crowns was the book I was trying to remember the name of. Bloody excellent. My favourite WHFRP sourcebook after Children of the Horned Rat (because Skaven campaigns are awesome!).
 
One of the questions I have is whether folks who dig on the setting would be open to any other game system.
It's not that far off of BRP/Runequest... except for the careers and I think a GM could just port those over as careers and cults (brotherhoods) in Mythras, Magic World or Openquest. They'd lack the same quasi-leveling structure of WFRP, but that might be for the better.
 
Hmm, what I wonder if if I ran WHFRP am I just going to be wishing I was running RuneQuest... And then do I just wish I was running RQ in Glorantha...

I mean that is possibly an option, just start up a 2nd RQ1 in Glorantha campaign...

On the other hand, the career paths in WHFRP looks interesting and the setting is certainly very evocative though thankfully using Roll20 instead of in person, I don't have to reject out of hand the Games Workshop style of paint jobs of miniatures (oh, sorry, models...). I started disliking those from the first color pictures of painted miniatures in White Dwarf magazine... Also, yea, I'm not into medieval fantasy punk hairdos...

But the first time I laid eyes on WHFRP I was immediately drawn to the back of the book with the coaching houses and canal locks. Using the published materials as sources of nice floor plans would definitely be very doable however I decided to constructs a campaign.

So do I try and sell The Old World using Cold Iron, or do I bite the bullet and try and give WHFRP a chance? Do I want to run what I want to run or do I want to have players?
 
If you have the.pdf, give it a read. It's a great game, it really is, but it's not for every group. It might just be that you really want to run Runequest...

If reading the book hooks you as a referee, try it. And no, miniatures are not required. Mohawks are though. Every third character must have one, no matter how little sense it makes...
 
Do I want to run what I want to run or do I want to have players?
... and do your players want a GM who is running something he doesn't want to run?

Your love of Runequest suggests that it shouldn't be too hard for you got grok WFRP... because the system isn't too dissimilar.
But I'd think you'd want to embrace the setting and the dark humor baked into it (mohawks on exiled dwarfs) if you're gonna bother to put in the effort.
 
... and do your players want a GM who is running something he doesn't want to run?
Yea, that can be a drag, playing in a game where the GM really wants to run something different. What can be really bad about that is when the GM presents situations and adventures as if the game is the one he wants to run, never mind such situations might be either dead boring, or deadly in the game system actually being played. I definitely don't want to be that GM.

IF I decide to run WHFRP it will be because I want to actually commit to giving it a good solid run. I'm just trying to evaluate for myself if that's what I want to do. This thought is heavy on my mind because I really shouldn't have started the Traveller campaign I did. I've got a Bushido play by post that is about ready to be closed up without having actually done much of anything because I'm finding I just don't have the energy to dive into the system or the setting. A couple years ago a Yoon Suin play by post died in part because I just couldn't make the setting sing.

But I'm not sure I want to run two RQ campaigns... In part because my gamer ADD needs to be fed...

Your love of Runequest suggests that it shouldn't be too hard for you got grok WFRP... because the system isn't too dissimilar.
But I'd think you'd want to embrace the setting and the dark humor baked into it (mohawks on exiled dwarfs) if you're gonna bother to put in the effort.
I dunno, maybe if it's just punk hairdos on exiled dwarfs... What other anachronistic or crazy stuff is part of the setting? I CAN be OK with some of that stuff. I embrace ducks and baboons in RuneQuest (and have no problems with the range of duck jokes people make), but that's also something that has been a part of my gaming culture for over 40 years...
 
I dunno, maybe if it's just punk hairdos on exiled dwarfs... What other anachronistic or crazy stuff is part of the setting? I CAN be OK with some of that stuff. I embrace ducks and baboons in RuneQuest (and have no problems with the range of duck jokes people make), but that's also something that has been a part of my gaming culture for over 40 years...
Well, it's more Renaissance era tech than medieval... so there are early gunpowder weapons and a bit of steam-tech. But, at least in 1e, it lacks the wargame's excesses... so no huge chaos armies or skaven armies with huge warmachines... it's all much more subtle and kept in the shadows. As long as you stay away from Lustria you won't have to deal with Slann/lizardmen/Amazons with futuristic alien tech (and brightly colored mohawks).
I'm not sure what else might stick in your craw...
 
Honestly, it hardly matters. The Old World is barely a thing any more. This version of the Old World is long gone. Just ignore whatever punk haircuts and alien lizards offend you.

The core of the game is the Empire, and it is the Holy Roman Empire by way of the renaissance with some Dungeons & Dragons in it.

Scrap Slann, scrap mohawks, scrap non-humans as playable entirely (actually, I quite recommend that...) and the setting remains much the same.

Magical careers are so rare it might never come up... So that leaves you with a grim n' perilous world with monsters in the forests, orcs and goblins as marauders rather than armies. Chaos cults, dirty and vicious politics, general crime and villainy, etc. There is still loads to work with.

At it's core, Warhammer FRP 1st Edition is essentially a comprehensive rulebook for a distinct play style (grim 'n' gritty) attached to a distinctly humancentric setting (Germanic Empire). Quick build a few characters, see if they come out fun and interesting. If not, go play Runequest.
 
Yea, I was noting that it takes some time before one gets to play a spell caster. That probably makes the setting more low magic that Cold Iron.

Hmm, with the various versions of the setting, how much does one run into folks who expect the latest version and get cranky when their knowledge of such is not applicable?

I'm curious how much of an issue that is. It's a bit of an issue with Glorantha, but there I have more than 40 years of running the setting on and off to give me absolute confidence with MY Glorantha, so if it doesn't match someone else's vision, tough noogies, I'm the GM... But it would be easier to get stomped on with a new (to me) setting...
 
I'm curious how much of an issue that is.
I'd wonder that too. I'd rather not play with people who fixate too much on 'canon'... especially since GW canon changes quite frequently.
I suspect you'd get more of that from players of the war game though.
 
Well, I just (about 5 mins ago) finished the 1e scenario 'Night of Blood'. We played it with Warlock! and it went swimmingly, but I can't say how WFRP would have been as I've never actually played that game. We had tons of fun, only one person was decapitated sadly, but mutants were slain and a demon was summoned and a few characters fled in terror due to failed Pluck rolls. In terms of sandbox play, it would definitely fit with a wandering party as you can encounter the adventure site by river or road, depending on where you place it and its very self-contained.

Also, I highly recommend Warlock!
 
I've played and run WFRP 1e off and on through the decades and I don't think any of it has been a published adventure. It's basically fantasy Call of Cthulhu with everything out to get you, which I know has been said elsewhere, but I think it's accurate. It's brutal and tons of fun, but sometimes in a "failure is fun" kind of way. I don't actually recall any games that didn't end in a TPK or equivalent, but that was probably just my groups being demented that way.
 
Hmm, with the various versions of the setting, how much does one run into folks who expect the latest version and get cranky when their knowledge of such is not applicable?

I'm curious how much of an issue that is. It's a bit of an issue with Glorantha, but there I have more than 40 years of running the setting on and off to give me absolute confidence with MY Glorantha, so if it doesn't match someone else's vision, tough noogies, I'm the GM... But it would be easier to get stomped on with a new (to me) setting...
Not much in my experience at least, as long as you spell that out to people coming to it from the Wargame. "We're not playing in canon and the Storm of Chaos hasn't happened" isn't something I've had much pushback on.
 
The wargame happens at a very different scale and in different location tha the RPG. The RPG takes place within the Empire, largely sheltered from the outside world. The Empire is huge - understnd that while the geography resembles Earth, The Old World is around 3 times the size. Within the Empire people live out their meager lives largely protected by the forces and fortifications of the Empire and the Elector Counts. They hear stories, there are secretive cults, there are the occassional nests of Beastmen in the forests or attempted incursion of orcs, some fools even claim there is a vast undergroud kingdom of ratmen (but that's just the fairytales of children and madmen).

The wargame deals with the world outside the Empire. The Lizardmen's ancient Empires in the jungles of Lustria, the great Ogre Kingdoms of the East beyond the World's Edge Mountains, the Dark Elve's land of ice and snow across the sea, the great desserts to the south where undead monarchs rule of skeletal hordes in their vast tombs, and, far to the North, beyond the realms of giants, the Chaos Wastes where tribes of barbaric men and things that were once men worship the forbidden Chaos Gods.

It's the difference between someone living as a peasant in rural England in the Middle Ages vs a Crusader fighting in the Middle East, but even moreso.

So while the wargame has refined the lore somewhat, none of that really affects the world of the RPG as presented in 1E, there's just things that don't get talked about in the Wargame anymore (with the rare exception), like the small tribes of cyclopean half-demons who inhabit certain fens and marchelands, occassionally raiding small towns and villages. Or the strange turtle-centaurides that reside in small numbers in the deep forests, possessing Druidic powers beyond that of the elves.
 
When it comes to the "version" of Warhammer, I don't even worry about it.

My favourite is Blood Bowl's reality, which is an alternate future of our Earth. All the fantasy races stop warring during the late seasons to play Blood Bowl, which they worked out by deciphering left over American Football rulebooks. Amusingly, that is still the lore for the game, even if the miniatures are more in-line with the current Warhammer armies. The setting is still silly.

Just tell any prospective players up front. This is Warhammer Fantasy 1st Edition. Forget any of the hundred novels and army books that have come since. The game is decades out of date and that can be immensely freeing.
 
My favourite is Blood Bowl's reality, which is an alternate future of our Earth. All the fantasy races stop warring during the late seasons to play Blood Bowl, which they worked out by deciphering left over American Football rulebooks. Amusingly, that is still the lore for the game, even if the miniatures are more in-line with the current Warhammer armies. The setting is still silly.
Is this like a Shannara type deal?
 
That all makes sense. Certainly if running WHFRP 1e it makes sense to use the setting as presented in the 1e materials.

If I decided to use the setting in Cold Iron, just stating that I'm basing off the 1e setting should be solid. Then the question becomes does Cold Iron break the setting vibe in some way. Cold Iron magic is less powerful than D&D magic, but is at least more available than WHFRP, a PC can start with magic, and magic items are prevalent though mostly potions and "charged" items (that decay with use). So I could run into the same magic level disconnect that I did when I ran Cold Iron set in Harn.
 
I'm curious why folks consider WHFRP similar to RQ. Really the only things I see is d100 for skills (but your chance with skill is managed entirely differently than RQ), hit locations, and damage absorbing armor (which isn't even on the same scale as RQ armor).
 
I'm curious why folks consider WHFRP similar to RQ. Really the only things I see is d100 for skills (but your chance with skill is managed entirely differently than RQ), hit locations, and damage absorbing armor (which isn't even on the same scale as RQ armor).
I only think it's similar for those reasons you listed... d100, skills, hit locations, ablative armor... but that's still closer than a lot of systems and so maybe easier for a RQ GM to latch on to.
 
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One thing's for certain, while WFRP 1e is probably the single best comprenhensive "one book" fantasy game ever, you'd be doing the Old World a great disservice if you don't get ahold of the Realms of Chaos supplements, easily the greatest RPG supplements ever produced.
 
Hmm, a possible system thought for The Old World... Stormbringer... Just port back in hit locations and piece armor... But Stormbringer magic might fit The OId World well enough...

Yea, yea, I know, just go off the deep end and use Mythras... But... but...
 
Hmm, a possible system thought for The Old World... Stormbringer... Just port back in hit locations and piece armor... But Stormbringer magic might fit The OId World well enough...

Yea, yea, I know, just go off the deep end and use Mythras... But... but...

Wasn't the whole point of this to run Cold Iron though?

If I were you I'd just pitch a game that is "like Warhammer", use Cold Iron, and take the parts from Warhammer that you enjoy for your own Grimdark game.
 
Wasn't the whole point of this to run Cold Iron though?

If I were you I'd just pitch a game that is "like Warhammer", use Cold Iron, and take the parts from Warhammer that you enjoy for your own Grimdark game.
Well, yea, I'd love to run Cold Iron... But I'm not sure that Cold Iron is much like Warhammer, though I guess it depends on WHAT folks really key off about WHFRP. If it's mostly the Grimdark, certainly one can make almost any game Grimdark, and Cold Iron could probably do OK there. If the career system is important though, that's pretty well tied to the WHFRP system.

There's also how to list the campaign in Roll20 to actually get recruits... I don't know how much folks search for system or keywords in descriptions.
 
Well, yea, I'd love to run Cold Iron... But I'm not sure that Cold Iron is much like Warhammer, though I guess it depends on WHAT folks really key off about WHFRP. If it's mostly the Grimdark, certainly one can make almost any game Grimdark, and Cold Iron could probably do OK there. If the career system is important though, that's pretty well tied to the WHFRP system.

There's also how to list the campaign in Roll20 to actually get recruits... I don't know how much folks search for system or keywords in descriptions.

Warhammer is simply Grimdark + Germanic+ Reanaissance + Heavy Metal + 2000 AD + British black humour
 
That's the Sword of Shannana
 
That's the Sword of Shannana

I know it's a series of books, but I've never read them.

Does it have chainsaws, pogo sticks and steamrollers? If not, it probably doesn't meet the high standard of mayhem and violence that makes the Blood Bowl setting a subtle masterpiece...
 
One thing's for certain, while WFRP 1e is probably the single best comprenhensive "one book" fantasy game ever, you'd be doing the Old World a great disservice if you don't get ahold of the Realms of Chaos supplements, easily the greatest RPG supplements ever produced.
Well, one of them was. The other was not so great.
 
Personally, I'd go with this. But each to their own.

 
Hmm, I think after ruminating on this for several days now I'm ready to put it to rest. I think if I tried to run the system I would just find myself constantly wishing I was running something else. The setting does look interesting, but trying to convert it to Cold Iron or RQ just seems beyond what I want to tackle and without a dedicated group of players who are interested in playing what I have to run who would therefore be open to how my conversion changed the setting, I'd likely wind up with players who are really looking for some version of Warhammer but will play whatever because they're desperate and then well, no, actually Cold Iron and my conversion doesn't really hit the spot for them.

I'm better off with a setting that doesn't have so much mechanical weight behind any game system it might be tied to and overall is a pretty light setting. My use of Blackmoor in the late 1980s went well because at that time, with First Fantasy Campaign, really the setting was mostly just a pretty map. Even the DA modules didn't really add much. Harn worked OK in the early 1980s until I the details of the various nations starting coming out and it became more clear that the setting had a different magic level than Cold Iron and that magic users were more rare than "every party has at least one MU if not 2 or 3" and no, clerics were not just magic users with some sort of different rules and a more limited spell list (while getting some spells a bit earlier to compensate).

So it's probably back to Cold West Iron Marches, or maybe poke around for another pretty map with cool place names on it.

And if I just can't sell the system, well, it might just be time to start up a 2nd RuneQuest campaign or bite the bullet and run some version of D&D...

Thanks for all the insight on the system and setting. I do find it interesting, it just isn't grabbing me in a way that makes me want to charge forward and implement.
 
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