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Yeah I but want to play D&D due to the huge amount of nostalgia and memories I have with the game. My friends and I back in high school were the stereotypical nerds and outcasts. We were useless to the status quo. For several of us, D&D probably saved us from taking a dangerous path in life. We were all dirt poor but none of that mattered because we had D&D. Specifically D&D. And what WotC has done over the past couple years with their design changes and their gross public statements have all but said that the D&D my friends and I survived off of was wrong. Hell, just look at the huge disclaimer on older D&D products on DMsguild. They feel so strongly that the older style of D&D is wrong that they feel the need to have a huge nasty disclaimer at the bottom of the description where they spread nothing but lies and nonsense.*shrug* The people that run the company probably weren't even born when I started playing. All they owe anything to is their shareholders as part of a publicly traded company. As for the hobby? D&D might be a big chunk of it, but there's plenty of other games and people willing to play those games. D&D's success or failure doesn't mean shit to me, except that if people get drawn into the hobby and end up curious enough to branch out into other avenues of play, maybe they'll stumble on to interests that align with my own? I certaintly wouldn't have found BRP, CoC, Mythras, Dragon Warriors, or the OSR, without experiencing the ennui WotC D&D gave me, so I guess I owe them a bit of gratitude after all.
Dude I am certain that both of these would be money makers. I wouldn't call it mainstream but there is a fairly active "O5R" movement out there and it's not all old white dudes. I showed Bunny this video about the changing art direction and tone over the years and it instantly "clicked" for her. She prefers not only the old school art direction but the "pulp survivor horror" tone of old school D&D (but prefers 5e to B/X). Survival-horror video games are trending hard right now. Not everyone wants to play medieval Marvel Superhero power fantasies.There are a couple things that would make me interested in "One D&D:"
If WotC did both of those I'd probably pick up the new edition. Without them, I'm pretty sure I'll give it a pass.
- An integrated "hard mode" option with slower advancement (ideally based primarily on treasure accumulation), slower recovery of hp and spells, fewer at-will and "push-button" abilities, more dangerous (save or die, save or suck) effects, more emphasis on resource management, and other stuff that makes the game feel more like the old days - sure, the DM can already house rule all that stuff in, but I'd like to see it as a fully developed and officially sanctioned option that works in the VTT space with the flip of a switch
- An optional "classical" skin for the VTT stuff (and ideally the printed books as well, but I assume that would never happen) where armor and weapons look more historical, characters and monsters have more realistic proportions, and so on, a la something like Angus McBride's art
Modern WotC and their decision make my blood boil because I refuse to be gaslit in to believing older D&D is in any way wrong.
Dude I am certain that both of these would be money makers. I wouldn't call it mainstream but there is a fairly active "O5R" movement out there and it's not all old white dudes. I showed Bunny this video about the changing art direction and tone over the years and it instantly "clicked" for her. She prefers not only the old school art direction but the "pulp survivor horror" tone of old school D&D (but prefers 5e to B/X). Survival-horror video games are trending hard right now. Not everyone wants to play medieval Marvel Superhero power fantasies.
They aren't though. They are saying society got it wrong. Sometimes it does. Pretty sure no one is going to debate owning other humans is wrong at this point. WotC also has to respond to the market they are in now. 2e did away with demons and devils because of the world it was in at the time. 5e is downplaying race because thats the world they are living in now. WotC isn't saying dungeoncrawling is wrong or hex exploration is wrong. It's saying our customers today by and large don't want race to be limiting stats. They are acknowledging that maybe a race in D&D has average stats but a player doesn't follow those rules. Just like you might say on average women can't lift as much as an average male. A PC doesn't need to play by that requirement. They are by intent exceptional.Yeah I but want to play D&D due to the huge amount of nostalgia and memories I have with the game. My friends and I back in high school were the stereotypical nerds and outcasts. We were useless to the status quo. For several of us, D&D probably saved us from taking a dangerous path in life. We were all dirt poor but none of that mattered because we had D&D. Specifically D&D. And what WotC has done over the past couple years with their design changes and their gross public statements have all but said that the D&D my friends and I survived off of was wrong. Hell, just look at the huge disclaimer on older D&D products on DMsguild. They feel so strongly that the older style of D&D is wrong that they feel the need to have a huge nasty disclaimer at the bottom of the description where they spread nothing but lies and nonsense.
Modern WotC and their decision make my blood boil because I refuse to be gaslit in to believing older D&D is in any way wrong.
Dude I am certain that both of these would be money makers. I wouldn't call it mainstream but there is a fairly active "O5R" movement out there and it's not all old white dudes. I showed Bunny this video about the changing art direction and tone over the years and it instantly "clicked" for her. She prefers not only the old school art direction but the "pulp survivor horror" tone of old school D&D (but prefers 5e to B/X). Survival-horror video games are trending hard right now. Not everyone wants to play medieval Marvel Superhero power fantasies.
2e did away with demons and devils because of the world it was in at the time. 5e is downplaying race because thats the world they are living in now.
They are in pretty much every single RPG out there other than D&D, which, for some reason, was uniquely blasted over this.The demons and devils came back once the moral panic faded. Perhaps one day elves shall naturally be more graceful than dwarves again?
I think the biggest issue with D&D was the spells. If the “dark magic” section never existed I doubt that the hysteria would have gained much traction.They are in pretty much every single RPG out there other than D&D, which, for some reason, was uniquely blasted over this.
Not a peep about Star Wars or Star Trek, oddly enough…
It does strike me as foolish to declare that they have made the perfect edition of D&D, ending the editions wars forever. Also, we have a lot of upcoming rules changes...It's all well and good for the company to say that Edition Wars are over and 5E won, but the people who have been fighting the Edition Wars aren't the ones publishing the newest edition of the game. Look at Warhammer, for example, and see that pretty much everyone plays the new edition. For D&D they have made enough large changes that a lot of folks prefer pre-change rules sets over post-change. That's what started the Edition Wars in the first place.
That change to backgrounds does seem better than the current model. I can't remember the specifics as I haven't played 5E in a few years, but I didn't like backgrounds usually being redundant with the most closely-related background. If I recall, taking the Solider background gave you proficiencies that you got from being a Fighter. Taking Street Urchin was redundant with being a Rogue.I like ability increases from backgrounds better than the old increases from race, but I still prefer Tasha's "up to you" method; at least they're still in the player's hands, though, rather than the game designers.
But for everything else... I dunno, I just don't think I care.
Of course they will be. It's product development 101. By breaking the way races work in this "re-imagining" (I assume that is what they are called now that we don't have editions anymore), you can fix it in the next version.The demons and devils came back once the moral panic faded. Perhaps one day elves shall naturally be more graceful than dwarves again?
I wonder if ardlings came about because Aasimar sounds like ass? If so, ardling isn't a great sound.
Lots of people including myself have observed that the core 5e rules are actually pretty good and, if stripped down to basics, can do old school gaming pretty well. I highly recommend that you check out Into the Unknown. It's basically the 5e SRD stripped to the bone and married to the solid B/X rules for encounters, exploration, XP for gold, etc. Just like B/X it makes an excellent base on which to craft your own house rules.5E would probably work pretty well for an OSR type game. It's not that "modern" imo and the rules are dead simple which is inline with some of the design goals for OSR.
I'd love to have an old school 5E game with awesome adult targeted artwork and a return to appealing to the core D&D audience that is responsible for getting us all here.
Make no mistake, if TSR had had the budget and technology to do them in the past, they would have done.I feel increasingly nostalgic for the times when the hobby didn't include vacuous marketing videos.
The message they're sending is basically "this is a sterile corporate product stay away".
But... races do still have things that make them slightly better in their area. Eladrin get a free teleport, wood elves get faster movement and sneak abilities. By doing it in a special rule, it means that a given race will always have an advantage, regardless of stats; that perk is always going to matter, whereas a halfling and an elf with the same stat under the old stat modifiers-type system would have been just as capable.Also the idea that your species (it’s species, not race) shouldn’t impact your attributes is asinine. This implies that on average an Orc won’t be stronger than a gnome and the a halfling with his tiny little stubby legs has the same movement capabilities as a graceful elf.
It's literally just some text on the store page. They're not branding you or your account, they're not making you confess your sins in front of the council of vegans, the content hasn't been censored, it's just an acknowledgement it's a product from another time.Hell, just look at the huge disclaimer on older D&D products on DMsguild.
What they've done for that audience is make that era of material more accessible than ever - it's (Almost) all available cheaply in PDF, and there are a lot of PoD's. The folk that want it, can get it.Oh you're right, they completely abandoned the people that were soley responsible for keeping the hobby alive, even when it was damn near social sucidie to admit you were one of those "nerds" that plays that 'satan worshipping' game.
SLA1e books literally had system version numbers...D&D is going to be like a video game that gets a patch from now. One D&D version 5.5013267.
Games have trailers?
I feel increasingly nostalgic for the times when the hobby didn't include vacuous marketing videos.
Yeah, 5e isn't my favorite trad fantasy game (AFF), or even my favorite D&D (That's the 1974 edition). It's no WFRP1e or L5R5e for giving me the feel of a setting. I like 5e, but compared to my favorite games it's just solidly... okay.Yeah I’m totally in support of making this hobby more inclusive to different groups, more than ever.
The trade off, unfortunately, to me anyways, is that a certain je ne sais quoi has gotten watered-down in the process. The things that attracted me to the game initially, or even 10 years ago, have changed. I’ve found other games made now that are more compelling. Hell I still get more of a thrill reading Torchbearer and Beyond the Wall than D&D in it’s current state.
Not whining, just moving on, hopefully with some grace (and tongue-in-cheek chagrin).
If you get the same skill from a background that you got from class, you get to choose whichever new skill you like.If I recall, taking the Solider background gave you proficiencies that you got from being a Fighter. Taking Street Urchin was redundant with being a Rogue.
Sometimes you just want to play the most obvious archetype, and 5E punished you for it.
That's better than I thought, but it's still kind of a kludge. Why not spend just say you get to pick two skills and a piece of equipment rather than making a long, space-wasting list of backgrounds that frequently break?If you get the same skill from a background that you got from class, you get to choose whichever new skill you like.
they're not making you confess your sins in front of the council of vegans
A disclaimer is a nice simple way to cover your ass. It’s like McDonald’s putting a warning on their coffee advising people that it may be too hot for their genitals.
The backgrounds list is explicitly just a list of examples, though - two skills, two proficiencies, and any background feature is the rule already. Replacing background features with explicitly level 1 feats is ultimately just changing the terminology.That's better than I thought, but it's still kind of a kludge. Why not spend just say you get to pick two skills and a piece of equipment rather than making a long, space-wasting list of backgrounds that frequently break?
Fair enough, I played 5E, but I have never run it. I was just going off what I was told when I played it. I'll admit I am not qualified to give a proper opinion on 5E.The backgrounds list is explicitly just a list of examples, though - two skills, two proficiencies, and any background feature is the rule already. Replacing background features with explicitly level 1 feats is ultimately just changing the terminology.
Yes, it's not any different than the goofy disclaimers about magic not being real in '80s RPG books.I view the WotC disclaimers the same way I've always viewed warning labels on music, movies, etc. I don't care as long as long as I can still access the material.
But you did sleep at a Holiday Inn Express last night, right?I'll admit I am not qualified to give a proper opinion on 5E.
RPG companies have been reacting to cultural mores since at least the 80's. Back when the War on Drugs was in full swing drugs in RPGs were rarely portrayed as anything but destructive. Heh, I remember White Wolf "you are not a vampire" disclaimers well into the late 90s and maybe later!Yes, it's not any different than the goofy disclaimers about magic not being real in '80s RPG books.
I should've done that. Instead, I stayed up until 3 editing a novel. I'm not even coherent enough to weigh in on RPGs that I have run today,.But you did sleep at a Holiday Inn Express last night, right?
*long intake of breath*A disclaimer is a nice simple way to cover your ass. It’s like McDonald’s putting a warning on their coffee advising people that it may be too hot for their genitals.
Well Akshuuuuallllyyy… no wait, I’ll give you the benefit of doubt. Don’t make me bring out the Snopes article about the coffee-in-lap-media-fiasco!!
Sorry, but this hyperbolic and silly. A bunch of people were complaining and WotC did the bare minimum by slapping a blanket disclaimer on the product page of all D&D products, not just the “old D&D“ stuff like you claim. It’s on the 4E Essentials products, too. And the 5E Elemental Evil Player’s Companion.Yeah I but want to play D&D due to the huge amount of nostalgia and memories I have with the game. My friends and I back in high school were the stereotypical nerds and outcasts. We were useless to the status quo. For several of us, D&D probably saved us from taking a dangerous path in life. We were all dirt poor but none of that mattered because we had D&D. Specifically D&D. And what WotC has done over the past couple years with their design changes and their gross public statements have all but said that the D&D my friends and I survived off of was wrong. Hell, just look at the huge disclaimer on older D&D products on DMsguild. They feel so strongly that the older style of D&D is wrong that they feel the need to have a huge nasty disclaimer at the bottom of the description where they spread nothing but lies and nonsense.
Modern WotC and their decision make my blood boil because I refuse to be gaslit in to believing older D&D is in any way wrong.