(40K) The Emprah's New Groove

Best Selling RPGs - Available Now @ DriveThruRPG.com

Stumpydave

Goose
Moderator
Joined
Nov 2, 2019
Messages
1,423
Reaction score
4,145
I'd like to reboot 40k. Drop back to a single hardback a la Rogue Trader 1987. The emphasis on small squad/horde actions. Have heroes, randomly generated equipment and a sense of mystery and wonder.

Split the Imperium of Man into several parts, one led by the Ecclesiarchy and high lords of Terra, whomaintain the Astronomicon and wield the Adepta Sororitas and Astra Militarum. The throne is also claimed by the feudal kingdoms of the Adeptus Astartes who consider themselves the true sons of the Emperor. Then there are the various independent 'empires' with their xeno allies. All of them scrabbling for power and survival amongst the stars.

Put the Orks back into squabbling clans and tribes. They were the Brainboyz attempt to combat the Tyranid menace but now their 'programming' encompasses anything that isn't Ork.
Tyranids can stay as they are.

And I'd bring back Squats.
 
I'd be really interested in a troupe based treatment of 40K, perhaps akin to Band of Blades. That idea has some potential.
 
Oh. Didn't seem like it, since Stumpydave was talking about Rogue Trader.
That makes sense. No, I was talking about a 40K RPG that looks something BoB where you play both an officer in a military unit and also various grunts that get sent out on missions. I'm thinking about that in terms of a Imperial Guard force, for example, and really liking the idea.
 
Oh. Didn't seem like it, since Stumpydave was talking about Rogue Trader.
I was talking about Original Rogue Trader but whatever floats your boat. Once upon a time I did try using Rogue Trader as an RPG, using 1d10 and rolling under the relevant stats (Movement for running, Ballistic skill for shooting etc). They were an Imperial Guard detachment. Very easy system to fail in.
 
I'd be really interested in a troupe based treatment of 40K, perhaps akin to Band of Blades. That idea has some potential.
Isn't that just Chaos? You could adapt Chaos' warbands to Space Marines and have it.
 
Isn't that just Chaos? You could adapt Chaos' warbands to Space Marines and have it.
That's not exactly what I was getting at. Specifically, I think reskinning and hacking the Band of Blades RPG for the 40K setting would be awesome. It would work for most forces in the 40K universe really, although the Guard would be my first choice, with the Gaunt's Ghosts series as a key touchstone.
 
It's one of those concepts that just keeps getting more and more exaggerated. Warhammer 40k is a pretty good illustration of the problem with high scope settings. You always need something bigger.
 
It's one of those concepts that just keeps getting more and more exaggerated. Warhammer 40k is a pretty good illustration of the problem with high scope settings. You always need something bigger.
Yes and no. The setting has certainly evolved, but the case at hand maybe the change isn't so grand. I think the goal there was to have the basic Marines vs Chaos thing read a little more black and white, which it really didn't so much in earlier iterations of the game. I think this has to do with the growth of the IP as well as the creep of the IP into a lower age bracket. That's my read on it anyway, as a 30 year GW guy who enjoys talking about this shit and isn't precious about the lore. YMMV.
 
I don't find any iteration of Space Marines interesting at all, something about the concept, from Rogue Trader up to the current Meta, bores me intensely. That said, I do like how 40K's setting overall has evolved, I just wish it didn't take itself so seriously these days
 
I don't find any iteration of Space Marines interesting at all, something about the concept, from Rogue Trader up to the current Meta, bores me intensely. That said, I do like how 40K's setting overall has evolved, I just wish it didn't take itself so seriously these days
There was a time where the Space Marines had a distinct space nazi undertone, which is probably the most interesting thing that's been done with them. The whole Nietzsche ubermensch thing and all that. That's what I'd roll with.
 
There was a time where the Space Marines had a distinct space nazi undertone, which is probably the most interesting thing that's been done with them. The whole Nietzsche ubermensch thing and all that. That's what I'd roll with.
I imagined Rogue Trader era Space Marines like the Sardaukar in Dune with the addition of some psycho special forces attitude.

But yeah 40K was originally like if the Nazis, Soviets, and Roman Catholic Church had a big orgy and the Imperium was their baby.
 
There was a time where the Space Marines had a distinct space nazi undertone, which is probably the most interesting thing that's been done with them. The whole Nietzsche ubermensch thing and all that. That's what I'd roll with.

Sure, it makes them fine as villains and foils, but not as protagonists. I guess that's why I favour Necrons
 
Stats for what, exactly? For the tabletop? I don't think so. For one of the many RPGs? Probably.
Tabletop, yeah. 'Chapter Approved'. Because I could make up whatever I like for an RPG... but folks get pissy if you plop your homemade ping-pong ball Enslavers on the table, with their stats written on the back of a cocktail napkin.
 
Damn, so something happened when I tried to move the posts from the last page and they somehow got swallowed up into the nether f the internet.

Luckily, however, I still had that page open in another window that hadn't been refreshed yet, so I took screen grabs of the posts from there. Not ideal, admittedly, but better than nothing...

1.PNG


2.PNG

3.PNG

4.PNG

5.PNG
 
Last edited:
Thank you oh great and kind one. I will make many obeisances in your name, muttering the omnissah and pouring holy oil on your likeness.
 
I saw the title, and now I think the Emperor is Oprah Winfrey....seeing her leading an Empire of mind enslaved human beings wouldn't be a /new/ thing for her. Just look at the crazy doctors she suggested people take advice from.
 
You get an Iron Halo, and you get an Iron Halo, everyone gets an Iron Halo!!!
 
I saw the title, and now I think the Emperor is Oprah Winfrey....seeing her leading an Empire of mind enslaved human beings wouldn't be a /new/ thing for her. Just look at the crazy doctors she suggested people take advice from.

Maybe she does eat a hundred psychics a day. Like, when was the last time anyone heard from Miss Cleo?
 
As far as 40K goes form a RPG perspective I am so not tempted to use any of the official games. Bespoke high-crunch systems are not my bag. The lore is awesome though, so my taste would be to pick something lighter and just use the lore.
 
Yeah, I did a much lighter version of the WFRP system in my Blood Red Future thread on the game design forum. Really, I've got a pretty complete game there including a lot of art that I just fizzled out on. I was wanting to do something different with the psychic powers and just kinda hit a brick wall. The notion was that you could play 40k with the system without alteration but it was tied to a setting that contained all the same stuff.

I think the idea of commanding a unit or trope style play makes a certain amount of sense. Instead of hit points you have subordinates. To borrow a line from Star Wars, "We're losing droids fast!" Personally an rpg needs to do something more than combat. There's this boundary between a first person shooter on invulnerable mode and wargames, I'd have to think about it more to articulate it right. If all you're going to do is fight and you always know you'll win, why bother playing at all?
 
Yeah, I did a much lighter version of the WFRP system in my Blood Red Future thread on the game design forum. Really, I've got a pretty complete game there including a lot of art that I just fizzled out on. I was wanting to do something different with the psychic powers and just kinda hit a brick wall. The notion was that you could play 40k with the system without alteration but it was tied to a setting that contained all the same stuff.

I think the idea of commanding a unit or trope style play makes a certain amount of sense. Instead of hit points you have subordinates. To borrow a line from Star Wars, "We're losing droids fast!" Personally an rpg needs to do something more than combat. There's this boundary between a first person shooter on invulnerable mode and wargames, I'd have to think about it more to articulate it right. If all you're going to do is fight and you always know you'll win, why bother playing at all?
Are you familiar with Band of Blades?
 
The name's come up here a bit but that's it.
Here's the bare bones. The setting and conceit is that you play a mercenary company that got its ass kicked by the bad guys and is retreating to safety. The tone is very Warhammer fantasy feeling. It's a troupe play game, so you play more than one character. Each player has an officer in the legion, and also plays a selection of troopers. The troopers go out on missions, and in between missions the officers do strategic stuff. Suffice to say that the basic idea seems tailor made to run an Imperial Guard game.
 
Sure, I figured as much, but it certainly is getting into the grey area between Diplomacy and Squad Leader at that point. It would almost be an interesting campaign system for 40k. Still, it's always interesting to see approaches that cross that boundary.
 
Why not have both? Genestealer Cults came out just before the great Warhammering of White Dwarf, took a single entry in the RT bestiary - a cheap kncok off of Aliens xeomorph - and made them into one of the more interesting and original bits of 40k lore. In GW's defence, tying them to the Tyranids was also a good move.
 
Another half formed thought that occasionally bubbles to the fore is the 'axis of archetype' (a crap name for something I recognise in Sci fi but am unaware if its been identified or named anywhere else.)

So imagine a vertical axis Stasis at the top and Chaos (not the Ruinous Powers) at the bottom. And then a Horizontal axis with Biological at the Right and Mechanical at the left. (I'd draw a picture but I'm not that tech savvy).

Tyranids score high on Chaos and Biological. Necrons (from the little I know about their lore) score high on Law and Mechanical. Orks score high on Chaos but are in the middle when it comes to Bio/Mech. Humans land square in the middle.

There's probably room for a third axis, Psychic power vs technology maybe.

All interspecies conflict in 40k (and a lot of other sci fi fiction) can be seen as a battle between these four axis.

The Borg, Stasis and mostly Mechanical, Daleks and Cybermen the same. Xenomorphs Law and biological.
 
Isn't that just Chaos? You could adapt Chaos' warbands to Space Marines and have it.
Chaos wasn't even a thing really in the original book.

Taking a few liberties, if you have the main body of the Imperium following the high lords / ecclesiarchy / etc and their interpretations of the Emperor's will, you could have the Space Marines all following the Emperor's original instructions (Or their interpretations thereof); that covers a lot of ground without the need to introduce chaos at all, but still lets you pinch any of their themes that you need (Well-intentioned extremists gone too far). The AdMech could still see both groups as the true successors to biological humanity, and supply both (As well as running their own steel empire), but still be waiting to see who comes out on top or to take advantage of any power vacuums.

That way you've also opened up a lot of potential new conflicts, which is what you really want for an RPG setting.

Why not have both? Genestealer Cults came out just before the great Warhammering of White Dwarf, took a single entry in the RT bestiary - a cheap kncok off of Aliens xeomorph - and made them into one of the more interesting and original bits of 40k lore. In GW's defence, tying them to the Tyranids was also a good move.
I love that it's an unequal relationship.

The Cults see Tyranids as saviours; the Tyranids see Cults as a combined lighthouse and buffet.
 
It really does seem like a good fit for a Band of Blades re-skin. You have the Chapter Master, Captain, Champion, Chaplain, etc and then you have the Kill Team members for the missions.
 
Chaos wasn't even a thing really in the original book.

Taking a few liberties, if you have the main body of the Imperium following the high lords / ecclesiarchy / etc and their interpretations of the Emperor's will, you could have the Space Marines all following the Emperor's original instructions (Or their interpretations thereof); that covers a lot of ground without the need to introduce chaos at all, but still lets you pinch any of their themes that you need (Well-intentioned extremists gone too far). The AdMech could still see both groups as the true successors to biological humanity, and supply both (As well as running their own steel empire), but still be waiting to see who comes out on top or to take advantage of any power vacuums.
I know it wasn't really a thing- but the point was that you could adapt them- sort of like what you said in your second paragraph.
 
Sure, it makes them fine as villains and foils, but not as protagonists. I guess that's why I favour Necrons
Even when you read them in the books, they're fanatical towards humanity in a way that's a bit disturbing. The first contact with the Eldar was especially out there.
 
I imagined Rogue Trader era Space Marines like the Sardaukar in Dune with the addition of some psycho special forces attitude.

But yeah 40K was originally like if the Nazis, Soviets, and Roman Catholic Church had a big orgy and the Imperium was their baby.
They definitely had a Sardaukar aspect, being supposedly the Imperium’s most savage and brutal criminal psychopaths of every stripe, hypno-indoctrinated and mind-altered with drugs, technology and psychic powers to be the ultimate shock troops.

There’s tons of British style dark parody in the original Rogue Trader, sometimes up to Paranoia level. 40K these days, not so much.

I do like the difference between SM chapters though.
58AC11A0-2C65-4CA6-8A0C-0975153B4CBC.jpeg
 
Banner: The best cosmic horror & Cthulhu Mythos @ DriveThruRPG.com
Back
Top