A DC Heroes RPG Retrospective!

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Endless Flight

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DC Heroes is probably my all-time favorite RPG. I can't think of another one I love more. I love it so much I own three 2nd edition boxed sets, one of which is still in the original shrink wrap. I don't own everything for the game because I've never had a tendency be a completist, about anything really. Anyway, I had a short lived blog about supers gaming where I wrote a retrospective about the game and I thought I would share it here.

Flashback: DC Heroes Role-Playing Game!

I said at the end of my last post that the next one would be a comparison between DC Adventures and DC HEROES, but before I get to that I would like to do a short flashback on the latter. The DC HEROES Role-Playing Game was published from 1985 to 1994 by Mayfair Games, a publisher known up until that time for their board games. Mayfair published three editions of the game, the first two being boxed sets, a mainstay in the world of 1980s role-playing games.

These boxes were jam-packed full of stuff: usually including a “Read This First” booklet, a Player’s Manual or Rules Manual, a Gamemaster’s Manual or Background/Roster Book, a Powers & Skills Book or Character Handbook, a Gamemaster’s Screen, a Teen Titans or Justice League adventure, 30 or more color character cards, and two (2) ten-sided dice. The 1985 first edition boxed set with the George Perez cover was released while the DC mega-event Crisis on Infinite Earths was taking place, so the DC Universe was in a bit of flux. Certain characters like Superman were statted out in their pre-Crisis versions. The 1989 second edition boxed set with the simple but iconic Superman/Batman cover cleaned up some issues with the game like the gadgetry rules and added an advantage/drawback system. The 1993 softcover third edition with foil-embossed cover (a sign of the times) cleared up some issues, but it was the least successful edition, most likely due to the fact that it wasn't a wonderful box filled to the rim with goodies.


DC HEROES Second Edition (1989)

The game used a system designed by Greg Gorden (one of the greatest designers in role-playing game history) and later revised by Ray Winninger (another legend). It has been referred to in many circles as the Mayfair Exponential Gaming System, or MEGS for short. The system used a measurement called an Attribute Point, or AP for short. The AP measured everything from distance to time and even space. For example, 0 APs of distance was the equivalent of 10 feet. The AP system was also exponential. An increase of 1 AP was a value double the previous AP. Therefore, a distance of 1 APs was double the value of 0 APs, or twenty feet. This allowed heroes of all power levels to co-exist in the same group and it also kept the game from breaking at high levels. In fact, a feature of DC HEROES was the fact that it could run a cosmic supers campaign with no difficulty. You could easily have Superman with his Strength of 25 APs bashing Darkseid with his Body of 16 APs and the system wouldn't strain from the Earth-shattering blow.

Characters themselves were statted out in nine attributes, arranged in a matrix. These included three physical attributes (Dexterity, Strength, Body), three mental attributes (Intelligence, Will, Mind), and three mystical attributes (Influence, Aura, Spirit). Out of any system I've ever seen, this is by far the most elegant and just flat out awesomest (is that a word?) way of handing attributes. It doesn't have too few attributes or too many and it emphasizes heroes who have strong mystical aspects from heroes who have strong mental aspects, something which other games don't do well or at all. Powers were arranged using the physical, mental, and mystical categories. The game included the kinds of powers normally found in the DC Universe. Everything from "Heat Vision", "Superspeed", to even "Eye of the Cat" could be selected as powers. In total, there were over 160 powers. There were also 14 skills in the game and they included everything from Acrobatics to Gadgetry. Like I mentioned earlier, advantages and drawbacks were added in second edition and they helped flesh out characters a bit, especially the street-level heroes and villains who had up until that time only attributes and skills to differentiate themselves from each other. That was always one of the points detractors have made about the system: street-level heroes and villains appear to be too "samey", that there isn't much of a difference between Robin and Nightwing when you boil down the numbers. I don't agree, and if you think it's a major problem in DC HEROES then Marvel Super Heroes must not be your bag either (a topic for another post). Characters also had a Wealth attribute, which allowed them to purchase equipment and pay for the cost of parts need to construct gadgets.


DC HEROES Third Edition (1993)

The game used two charts for task resolution, an Action Table and a Result Table. The Action Table relied on cross-referencing two numbers, an acting value and an opposing value (both rated in APs). This provided a success number that had to be met or exceeded using two ten-sided dice (rolling doubles allowed re-rolling of the dice). If you rolled better than the success number by certain margins, this provided you with Column Shifts, which helped provide you with better results on the appropriately-named Result Table. This table cross-referenced an Effect Value and a Resistance Value (rated in APs) and provided you with the result (in APs...there appears to be a system at work), which could mean anything from damage taken to how long a power worked, depending on what you were trying to accomplish. It was quite elegant. The biggest detraction the system had was that you had to use two charts. I had no problem with it but I mention it for the sake of a fair review.

Players were rewarded for in-character activity with Hero Points, which were used for everything from temporarily boosting attributes, recovery checks to avoid dying, building gadgets, and even character improvement. A player would have to bank quite a few HP to advance their characters, especially the more powerful they became. Some players considered this a hindrance. I considered it a virtue It was quite refreshing, really. A game emulating the source material. Characters in comics do not become more powerful after each adventure. It's one of the things that annoys me about Mutants & Masterminds to this day and I like that system.


Superman's Second Edition Stats

There were many supplements made for the game, including The Justice League Sourcebook, The World at War Sourcebook for the Golden Age of DC, and Magic, which was devoted to the mystical community of the DC Universe. These sourcebooks in particular were all magnificent and should be sought out even if you aren't a gamer. They are just excellent reading material. There were also many adventures made for the game, mostly for first edition, and three volumes of Who's Who In The DC Universe, which were similar to the DC comics line of character handbooks. If you are interested in the game, I would suggest finding the second edition boxed set and using that. I do have a soft spot in my heart for first edition since it's what I started with. The art in that boxed set is second to none, but I can't recommend it since they hadn't worked all the kinks out yet. I will also point out that even though the hero and villain stats are twenty years old they are still very accurate since comic characters rarely change over the years. DC Comics has been on Silver Age kick the last couple of years anyway with the return of Hal Jordan as Green Lantern and Barry Allen as the Flash so the stats still hold up.

It's a wonderful game, the system is very elegant and it's one of the best values for your gaming dollar. You can usually find one on eBay for $20-30 in fairly good condition or better. I have two boxes myself, one that I use for play and one that I keep pristine because of my OCD. I have great fondness for the game, and it's definitely in my top three role-playing games of all-time. I can't recommend it enough.
 
Good writeup. I have two copies of the Blood of Heroes: Special Edition book, along with the Blood of Heroes: Special Edition GM screen. From what I understand, it's essentially DC Heroes 3.5 edition, just with an absolutely terrible setting and art. I've never played DC Heroes itself, but from what I understand some consider the rules of Blood of Heroes to be a slight improvement, while others consider it heresy. Your standard RPG edition war then. :p

There is however the excellent Writeups.org that contains DC Heroes/Blood of Heroes write-ups for just about every fictional character imaginable.
 
I'm one of those people who pretends that Blood of Heroes never happened. From what I understand, somebody who was a member of the old Yahoo! DC Heroes mailing list was the author of BoH. It's basically a bunch of fan house rules added to 3rd edition. But there are people who think it's the bomb.
 
Man, that was a nice trip down memory lane. DCH was the one superhero game that really worked for me. The ability to scale from street level to cosmic was great. The skills were almost as cool as the powers. The powers list might look redundant today (do we really need separate powers for Flame Projection, Heat Vision, Lightning etc. when Energy Blast might suffice?) but it smacked of flavor. And the supplements! Makes me want to dig out my copy.
 
Thaks for posting this; it's a great mini-review. I remember when a friend of mine bought it and I was looking at Wonder Woman's stats. IIRC, she was strong enough to lift a mountain! That was probably the pre-crisis 1st edition.

I have a small paperback Batman RPG, which I think uses the same rules. I could never grok what the mystical atts meant-- can you explain the difference between Influence, Aura, and Spirit?
 
Thaks for posting this; it's a great mini-review. I remember when a friend of mine bought it and I was looking at Wonder Woman's stats. IIRC, she was strong enough to lift a mountain! That was probably the pre-crisis 1st edition.

I have a small paperback Batman RPG, which I think uses the same rules. I could never grok what the mystical atts meant-- can you explain the difference between Influence, Aura, and Spirit?
Oh! Oh! I'll take this one!

The first two do double duty as social attributes. In White Wolf terms, Influence would be Manipulation and Aura would be Charisma or (nWoD) Presence. Spirit represents your fortitude against mystic attacks.
 
I'm one of those people who pretends that Blood of Heroes never happened. From what I understand, somebody who was a member of the old Yahoo! DC Heroes mailing list was the author of BoH. It's basically a bunch of fan house rules added to 3rd edition. But there are people who think it's the bomb.

If nothing else, I'm glad that it existed as it introduced me to MEGS in the early 2000s.
 
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The first two do double duty as social attributes. In White Wolf terms, Influence would be Manipulation and Aura would be Charisma or (nWoD) Presence. Spirit represents your fortitude against mystic attacks.
Thanks for explaining. That's pretty cool.
 
Aglondir Aglondir

The Batman Roleplaying Game was made to coincide with Batman that came out in theaters in the summer of 1989. It was released just before the 2nd edition of DC Heroes. It was basically a trimmed down version of the rules, catering to street level heroes. It has been called "version 1.5" before by fans of the system.
 
I got that Batman game because of the '89 film! Damn, 1989 was a good year for geekery.

Yep. I remember a local Waldenbooks had a small cardboard display with several copies the Batman game in the main aisle around that time. It was really good marketing between Warner Bros (the owner of DC) and Mayfair.
 
I still have a copy of third edition.

I wish I still had the other editions.

I only ever got to play a few times, sadly. I loved it, but it was hard to get people to play it.
 
I have 2nd and 3rd editions. I'll be honest, I'm not a fan, not least of which because I don't think physics engine games are a good fit for superheroes. And the table lookups - two for every action - slow the game to a crawl.

I have a copy of Blood of Heroes: Special Edition, and the game system isn't a travesty. It's just 3rd edition plus the equivalent of Champions III - a bunch of extra superpowers and some spot rules. I suspect the root of the edition wars is that 2nd edition was pretty simple and straightforward compared to 3rd/BOHSE, which more strongly resembles Champions in the power build system.

That said, DC Heroes produced my favorite superhero adventure module ever: Countdown to Armageddon. You have to love an adventure that comes with a warning label that says CAUTION: only heroes that are as powerful as Superman should attempt to play in this adventure.

The pre-Crisis Superman.
 
I could never grok what the mystical atts meant-- can you explain the difference between Influence, Aura, and Spirit?

Unlike Marvel, DC has had mystical/supernatural characters and settings as a core part of its universe since the beginning. INFL, AUR and SPI are used as the to-hit, damage and hit points stats for magical combat the same way DEX, STR and BOD are for physical combat. Marvel (and most superhero RPGs) just lump magical in with psionic.

If you only have the 1989 Batman RPG, this was likely not evident. IIRC, that book didn't have any magical villains or much reference to the magical parts of Batman's history.
 
My only experience of the system was through Underground, so I'm not sure what the differences are but Underground's heroes generally aren't Superman level of power.
 
Just about all my superhero gaming in the 80s was DC Heroes 1st edition. I had started with Villains and Vigilantes and bought the DC Heroes box set on spec because it was just so stuffed with stuff.

It was utterly gonzo and I loved it to bits. It's the only physics engine supers game I have played which actually felt like a comic and could handle cosmic stuff on the same table as everything else. I still remember our superman level character - Granite - throwing an asteroid at an impending invasion. No hand-waving needed. You looked up its APs, looked up the APs of how far away the attacking space fleet was and rolled 2D10. It took one hell of a "push" but it worked.

I particularly liked the fact that your "disadvantages" gave you Hero Points during play by having them triggered.

And occultism was utterly crazy. Most people didn't like the original gadgeteering rules because you couldn't build forks. Thing is, who plays a supers game to build forks. We had a sorcerous gadgeteer. He had a lab with *things* in it. Bits of BODY that just blobbed around. Strange things. Very strange things. Lots of teeth and claws as I recall. If David Cronenberg had directed the Lego movie you would have had something like DC Heroes. It was the most exciting "magic system" since 1st Edition Stormbringer.

To this day I still remember the first test. A friend and I played Deathstroke vs Batman to test out the system using the stats in the box. It was utterly epic and virtually destroyed the shopping centre in which they fought to a near standstill. My friend had run lots of Champions and I had run a lot of V&V and by the end the fight it was obvious that this had all the crazy fun of V&V and all the formal elegance of Champions.
 
deleriad deleriad

Did you own the Magic sourcebook for 2nd edition? It is one of the best supplements they ever made.
To be honest I don't know. I don't recall buying much beyond the box and some adventures. I lost a lot of rpg stuff in a move after I left university then didn't do any rpgs for a long time. I'm not sure I even knew there was a 2nd ed though I did get the Batman 1.5 rules at some point.
 
My only experience of the system was through Underground, so I'm not sure what the differences are but Underground's heroes generally aren't Superman level of power.

DC Heroes uses a logarithmic scale where if x APs represents y real-world stuff, then x+1 APs represents 2y (adding 1 AP doubles effectiveness, IOW)

IIRC - and it's been awhile, so don't assume I do - Underground raises by a factor of 1.4 or 1.5 per AP, not 2. So it's still logarithmic but it doesn't take off as quickly. This keeps the power level down and avoids the biggest problem DC Heroes had with street level heroes, which is that the system doesn't have a lot of resolution down at that end of the scale.
 
Underworld takes three APs to double vs. DC's one.

As far as DC's scaling goes, it was fine. It didn't have a lot of resolution at the street hero end of the scale, but DC doesn't have a lot of street heroes. Not even the Bat family really spends much time at that end of the scale in the comics.
 
If somebody is interested in knowing how the system works but has never seen it, I scanned the "Read This First!" booklet from the second edition boxed set many years ago. It gives you the basics on how to play the game. I could probably share it on google docs or something.
 
DC doesn't have a lot of street heroes. Not even the Bat family really spends much time at that end of the scale in the comics.

I don't think that thesis is borne out by DC comics c.1961 - 1984. It's certainly not borne out by the Batman family. Regardless, DC Heroes is designed for the Justice League end of the scale (and the version of Batman that hangs around with the Justice League).
 
I don't think that thesis is borne out by DC comics c.1961 - 1984. It's certainly not borne out by the Batman family. Regardless, DC Heroes is designed for the Justice League end of the scale (and the version of Batman that hangs around with the Justice League).
I disagree. It is certainly borne out by the Batman family, given the kinds of challenges they faced and villains they fought. The Bat family is not street level, and certainly wasn't during the time frame you describe. They don't have superpowers officially but they basically have superhuman prowess.
 
I totally missed this game, in any edition, the first time around. V&V was my first supers RPG, and then Marvel for some time after that. I'm pretty committed to ICONS these days, but I like what I'm hearing about DC here. Hmm, it might be time to hunt down a copy ...
 
I disagree.

Disagree all you like; the mechanics of the game system itself contradict you. The default score for a human is 2 APs in everything. Maximum human strength is 6 APs, physical damage capacity is 6 APs. The mental and mystical stats top out around 10-12 APs for humans, but the action charts step up by increments of two. There's no mechanical difference between an attribute of 3 and an attribute of 4. The "official" writeups for the Batman family have Attribute APs in the range of 4-6, some as high as 8. That's a whopping two or three incremental steps between the average pedestrian and Nightwing.

That the DC Heroes game has low resolution down at that end of the scale is a well-known complaint about the system. There's a reason Underground chose 1.25 as its log base instead of 2.
 
The Bat family is not street level

big ol' rant about DCH sucking at street level

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Disagree all you like; the mechanics of the game system itself contradict you. The default score for a human is 2 APs in everything. Maximum human strength is 6 APs, physical damage capacity is 6 APs. The mental and mystical stats top out around 10-12 APs for humans, but the action charts step up by increments of two. There's no mechanical difference between an attribute of 3 and an attribute of 4. The "official" writeups for the Batman family have Attribute APs in the range of 4-6, some as high as 8. That's a whopping two or three incremental steps between the average pedestrian and Nightwing.

That the DC Heroes game has low resolution down at that end of the scale is a well-known complaint about the system. There's a reason Underground chose 1.25 as its log base instead of 2.
I see you didn't actually get what I was disagreeing with. I didn't disagree that DC Heroes was bad for street level. I disagreed that DC actually has actual street level heroes (as opposed to unpowered hypercompetent humans who can hold their own alongside Kryptonians, Amazons, and Green Lanterns).
 
If Batman wasn't superhuman, he would have been dead within one year of donning the cape and cowl.

Also, Batman versus an entire group of White Martians after they've already defeated and captured Superman, Wonder Woman, et al.:

6003915291_21963de668_b.jpg



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6004461622_1f6a260a51_b.jpg
 
I believe there is an optional rule in 2e that allows differentiation between characters in the same column on the action/result charts.
 
That's a whopping two or three incremental steps between the average pedestrian and Nightwing.

It has been a very long time since I played, but aren't those two or three steps exponential?
 
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