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Isator Levi

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To be blunt, my intended themes will be a mix of action horror and political intrigue with a focus on the rivalries between the different covenants in the area as they all scheme to take over the valley for themselves and take out the Prince who stands in their way.

The core themes can best be summed up as a quest for power
So then-

Hang on a moment...

Ah. Up until right now, I had assumed you meant this game to take place in the past, in a colonial era. I see the name "Roanoke" and my mind immediately skips to the lost colony, you know?

So, a struggle for power between up to three coteries. Sounds extremely intimate. Seems to me like that's the sort of thing that can balance on a bit of a see-saw; one coterie rises to power, the other one or two don't exactly have much rivalry to distract them from scheming to take it back. Is the power in this case a sense of authority over the other vampires (playing out a bit like the feud of neighbouring families in a soap opera), over the scope of feeding rights, or is there something particular to the city's cultural, political or economic makeup that the vampires would compete over having an unimpeded hand in?

Or is it a case in which the vampires are so competitive out of a sense of little else to do? Their Danse Macabre not containing much artistic expression, but at least everybody knows the steps.

On a related note, are the members of the player coterie expected to cooperate in the acquisition and sharing of power, or might the players be intended to be in a state of tension with one another, where treachery and looking to be first up the ladder is on the table?
 

Doc Sammy

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So then-

Hang on a moment...

Ah. Up until right now, I had assumed you meant this game to take place in the past, in a colonial era. I see the name "Roanoke" and my mind immediately skips to the lost colony, you know?

So, a struggle for power between up to three coteries. Sounds extremely intimate. Seems to me like that's the sort of thing that can balance on a bit of a see-saw; one coterie rises to power, the other one or two don't exactly have much rivalry to distract them from scheming to take it back. Is the power in this case a sense of authority over the other vampires (playing out a bit like the feud of neighbouring families in a soap opera), over the scope of feeding rights, or is there something particular to the city's cultural, political or economic makeup that the vampires would compete over having an unimpeded hand in?

Or is it a case in which the vampires are so competitive out of a sense of little else to do? Their Danse Macabre not containing much artistic expression, but at least everybody knows the steps.

On a related note, are the members of the player coterie expected to cooperate in the acquisition and sharing of power, or might the players be intended to be in a state of tension with one another, where treachery and looking to be first up the ladder is on the table?

The player coterie is expected to cooperate in the sharing of power at first, especially since all three coteries are mostly neonates (with an ancilla leader) and all have a common enemy in the Prince.

Feuding families or small-time street gangs is precisely what I'm aiming for with this one.
 

Isator Levi

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all three coteries are mostly neonates (with an ancilla leader) and all have a common enemy in the Prince.
Is there a particular backstory for this setup?

So if the coterie is pure Covenant, will the players be allowed to select which of the two or three they assume the role of?
 

Doc Sammy

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Is there a particular backstory for this setup?

So if the coterie is pure Covenant, will the players be allowed to select which of the two or three they assume the role of?

There is a bit of backstory but it's a work in progress.

The players will be allowed to select the covenant they are part of, yes.
 

Isator Levi

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Okay, so it's First Edition Requiem... how many source books does that extend to?

I'm just wondering if the Cacophony is an element of your setting; technically still part of First Edition, even if introduced later than the core.
 

Doc Sammy

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Okay, so it's First Edition Requiem... how many source books does that extend to?

I'm just wondering if the Cacophony is an element of your setting; technically still part of First Edition, even if introduced later than the core.

For now, we're going to keep it simple and stick with the corebooks but I may introduce other elements from later 1E books down the line depending on how the game plays out.
 

Isator Levi

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For now, we're going to keep it simple and stick with the corebooks but I may introduce other elements from later 1E books down the line depending on how the game plays out.

If I may say so, in the event that the intended tone of hostility between the Covenants means that they actively avoid meeting directly with one another, some of the ideas underlying the Cacophony might prove an interesting method of giving enemy vampires a sense of presence and menace even when they don't show up directly. Things like the gig posters and music schedules in one of the player character's favourite night clubs conveying a veiled threat or insult to the vampire trained to understand it, or the tags on the walls and symbols incorporated into business logos defining the territorial boundaries. And of course the players might devise their own creative methods for putting out coded messages into the night to be picked up on by their opponents.
 

Doc Sammy

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If I may say so, in the event that the intended tone of hostility between the Covenants means that they actively avoid meeting directly with one another, some of the ideas underlying the Cacophony might prove an interesting method of giving enemy vampires a sense of presence and menace even when they don't show up directly. Things like the gig posters and music schedules in one of the player character's favourite night clubs conveying a veiled threat or insult to the vampire trained to understand it, or the tags on the walls and symbols incorporated into business logos defining the territorial boundaries. And of course the players might devise their own creative methods for putting out coded messages into the night to be picked up on by their opponents.

That could definitely work although I will be up front and say that while the game does start with just the core materials for Requiem 1E, there will be a few small changes.

1. Predator's Taint isn't going to be much of a thing. Just seems too cumbersome

2. Humanity will not be enforced all that much. I'm not running that kind of game. I'm not going to call for Humanity rolls all that much short of the PC's going full chaotic evil and acting like a bunch of Manson wannabes or something like that.

3. The fluff about vampires being emotionally dead and only having memories of emotions is gone. There's not much to mechanically enforce it anyway so Rule Zero is easy to apply to it.
 
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Doc Sammy

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I freely admit to currently running Gotham City by Night where Batman was the Old Clan Tzimisce Prince and opposed by the Malkavian Antitribu Joker.

The PCs' territory is Bludhaven.

Are you willing to give my Requiem game a chance?

I'm looking for players to take part in Requiem for Roanoke.

This ain't your daddy's Vampire game! I think you might actually like my homebrew setting hacks for Requiem.
 

CT_Phipps

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Are you willing to give my Requiem game a chance?

I'm looking for players to take part in Requiem for Roanoke.

This ain't your daddy's Vampire game! I think you might actually like my homebrew setting hacks for Requiem.

Alas, my schedule is full writing and gaming as is. Sorry.

I wish you the best, though!
 

Isator Levi

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That could definitely work although I will be up front and say that while the game does start with just the core materials for Requiem 1E, there will be a few small changes.

1. Predator's Taint isn't going to be much of a thing. Just seems too cumbersome

2. Humanity will not be enforced all that much. I'm not running that kind of game. I'm not going to call for Humanity rolls all that much short of the PC's going full chaotic evil and acting like a bunch of Manson wannabes or something like that.

3. The fluff about vampires being emotionally dead and only having memories of emotions is gone. There's not much to mechanically enforce it anyway so Rule Zero is easy to apply to it.
Makes sense. After all, Second Edition recognised a couple of those problems. Particularly, how the predatory aura thing was changed from "vampires have to check for frenzy every time they meet one another" to "vampires instinctively recognise one another and can voluntarily elect to assert their aura against other beings (not just vampires) to create deleterious emotional states" (a game that a weaker vampire can win over a stronger one), as well as a touch of "predator and territory gain subtle alterations reflecting one another" (which also gives them an innate sense of crossing one another's thresholds).

I'm supposing that was also a mechanic you disliked, but I'd be interested to know what it was about it.

I'll point out that in the absence of Predator's Taint, you'd need to come up with something custom for the first dot of Protean to do.
 
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Doc Sammy

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Makes sense. After all, Second Edition recognised a couple of those problems. Particularly, how the predatory aura thing was changed from "vampires have to check for frenzy every time they meet one another" to "vampires instinctively recognise one another and can voluntarily elect to assert their aura against other beings (not just vampires) to create deleterious emotional states" (a game that a weaker vampire can win over a stronger one), as well as a touch of "predator and territory gain subtle alterations reflecting one another" (which also gives them an innate sense of crossing one another's thresholds).

I'm supposing that was also a mechanic you disliked, but I'd be interested to know what it was about it.

I'll point out that in the absence of Predator's Taint, you'd need to come up with something custom for the first dot of Protean to do.

Predator's Taint is just too fucky in 1E. I might nerf it to something closer to how it was in 2E where instead of vampires frenzying every time they meet to they just instantly know one another's true nature.

Anyway, I'm thinking the main three covenants active in the Roanoke Valley at the start of the game would be the Circle of the Crone, the Lancea Sanctum, and the Invictus. The Prince is with the Invictus but he has an underboss who is seeking to betray him and take control.

The Circle of the Crone in Roanoke is a lot less Wiccan and more Greco-Roman in its overall character.
 

Black Leaf

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I always assumed that Predator's Taint was a nice idea they wrote up without thinking it through properly. I really like the concept of it adding to the claustrophobic nature of Vampiric society, but it just didn't work as written.
 

Isator Levi

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Speaking of auras, I'm only just giving a close examination to the mechanics of the ones in the three Second Edition cores that I own.

I like how they went with the supernatural aura as a more consistent idea across games, even where the effects differ, and how they can interact with one another in respective contests. I particularly like how the Nimbus Tilt of mages is something that actually gives a system representation to descriptions of the sensations provoked by the Nimbus, and how in contrast to the predatory qualities of vampires and werewolves this can actually provide people with bonuses.
 

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FYI -

I recommend the visual novel SHADOWS OF NEW YORK (and to a lesser extent COTERIES OF NEW YORK).

Also, NIGHT ROAD even though that's a text-based adventure alone with no visuals except a few character portraits.

I'm looking forward to SWAN SONG the Tell Tale-esque adventure game too.
 

Shipyard Locked

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Is it just me, or was old Obtenebration a really unfair power? I've had two players use it over the past couple of years (in V20) and it just seems like such a slam-dunk "I win" button of a power in many, many situations. I've read it several times and it always comes off as an incredible pile of penalties that are easy to apply and difficult to evade. Not a fan.
 

opaopajr

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:quiet: The glitter and whimsy seems to be gone from this Changeling topic now that it has gone Generic W/C/NoD. :brokenheart::hurry: Quick, to the freeholds and glades! Bring the Tangerine Dream LPs!
 

TristramEvans

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Is it just me, or was old Obtenebration a really unfair power? I've had two players use it over the past couple of years (in V20) and it just seems like such a slam-dunk "I win" button of a power in many, many situations. I've read it several times and it always comes off as an incredible pile of penalties that are easy to apply and difficult to evade. Not a fan.


I don't know about V20, but in the original line it wasn't very powerful, overall. First point you could move shadows around - basically do "shadow puppets", at best under the right circumstances freak people out. Second point you can make an area dark. Good for stealth and avoiding combat, kinda. Third point you can summon tentacles of darkness, first almost-viable for combat ability, hardly a game-changer. And three points was mostly the limit for a new character in any one discipline - so you've got shadow puppets, turn out the lights, and the shadow equivalent of the magic fingers cantrip.

At your fourth point you could create temporary objects made of shadow - kinda fun, but hardly a game-changer. At best you have a kinda sucky melee or throwing weapon at your disposal.

And finally, at 5 points, you could turn into a shadow temporarily - shadowman, shadowman, does whatever a shadow can...which isn't much. Harmed by fire, light, or magic. Good for stealth and avoiding most attacks, but not an overtly offensive power in any way. Again very fun, but as far as 5 point Discipline abilities go, I wouldn't put it on the higher end of power in the game.
 

CT_Phipps

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Is it just me, or was old Obtenebration a really unfair power? I've had two players use it over the past couple of years (in V20) and it just seems like such a slam-dunk "I win" button of a power in many, many situations. I've read it several times and it always comes off as an incredible pile of penalties that are easy to apply and difficult to evade. Not a fan.

Yes. It was one of the most popular "broken" powers alongside Vicissitude and Chimestry.
 

Voros

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I don't know about V20, but in the original line it wasn't very powerful, overall. First point you could move shadows around - basically do "shadow puppets", at best under the right circumstances freak people out. Second point you can make an area dark. Good for stealth and avoiding combat, kinda. Third point you can summon tentacles of darkness, first almost-viable for combat ability, hardly a game-changer. And three points was mostly the limit for a new character in any one discipline - so you've got shadow puppets, turn out the lights, and the shadow equivalent of the magic fingers cantrip.

At your fourth point you could create temporary objects made of shadow - kinda fun, but hardly a game-changer. At best you have a kinda sucky melee or throwing weapon at your disposal.

And finally, at 5 points, you could turn into a shadow temporarily - shadowman, shadowman, does whatever a shadow can...which isn't much. Harmed by fire, light, or magic. Good for stealth and avoiding most attacks, but not an overtly offensive power in any way. Again very fun, but as far as 5 point Discipline abilities go, I wouldn't put it on the higher end of power in the game.

This is a Discipline in the Vampire game? Sounds like a power I would expect more in Changeling. I find the older versions of Vampire too kitchen sink in approach for my taste, I prefer a tighter focus on classic vampire tropes.
 

TristramEvans

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This is a Discipline in the Vampire game? Sounds like a power I would expect more in Changeling. I find the older versions of Vampire too kitchen sink in approach for my taste, I prefer a tighter focus on classic vampire tropes.

The inspiration for it was pretty obvious

33cf09fab1ac3551a8416d0391f7dd82.jpg
 
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