A.I. Imaging

[Skarg]

Playing around I've found that if you can get an AI to produce something close to what you want, take thst pic and feed it back in as a template. Took some trials but I got View attachment 52468
With: tyrannosaurus tex fighting a battlemech with explosions in the background

I've been finding that's usually a big IF, but sometimes I get things that are cool, usually not a lot like what I wanted.

Occasionally I get things that are quite interesting.

And yes, feeding things back in, sometimes has very interesting results.

My results for

"secret 1984 collaboration movie between Jim Henson Studios and HR Giger, --v 4 --q 1** -<@1041036153> (relaxed)"

included:

Spoiler: not the kind of scary I imagined

Spoiler: not scary at all

. . .

And a few things I thought were actually sort of cool and interesting, but then I wasted some hours trying to get better versions of them, and I don't really have a use for them.

Spoiler: (like this)

 

[Vidgrip]

Which app?

Dream

 

[Skarg]

Here's an AI-generated character portrait anyone may use . . .

 

[Malckuss]

That's...the new Quasimodo, isn't it?

 

[Skarg]

Nuevo-Quasimodo, good name. It's what I got when I asked for a "Coherent" evolution of a normal-looking AI-generated woman.

 

[opaopajr]

It looks tediously fractal to me. I know, I know, luddite spoil-sport. But it reminds me of the fad infatuation with fractal art, velvet blacklight doodles, photo collage images, and 3D posters of the 90s (y'know, the ones where you had to screw up your eye focus to "get it"?).

Very, "Been there, done that, put those gifts in the back of the closet with the similarly gifted Thomas Kinkade and Anne Geddes posters, next to the deliberately hidden 'Live, Laugh, Love' tchotchke." Not my thing, but you guys do you. Have fun!

 

[Telok]

Very, "Been there, done that, put those gifts in the back of the closet with the similarly gifted Thomas Kinkade and Anne Geddes posters, next to the deliberately hidden 'Live, Laugh, Love' tchotchke." Not my thing, but you guys do you. Have fun!

Not AI done, but you brought it to mind.

Random: would it help to have the AIs watch a bunch of Bob Ross?

 

[Malckuss]

Godzilla as Trogdorr, the Burninator!
Burninating the countryside! Burninating the peasants!

 

[Skarg]

It looks tediously fractal to me. I know, I know, luddite spoil-sport. But it reminds me of the fad infatuation with fractal art, velvet blacklight doodles, photo collage images, and 3D posters of the 90s (y'know, the ones where you had to screw up your eye focus to "get it"?).

Very, "Been there, done that, put those gifts in the back of the closet with the similarly gifted Thomas Kinkade and Anne Geddes posters, next to the deliberately hidden 'Live, Laugh, Love' tchotchke." Not my thing, but you guys do you. Have fun!

Could you really not pick up that I was posting it because it was amazingly terrible?

 

[Shipyard Locked]

Godzilla as Trogdorr, the Burninator!
Burninating the countryside! Burninating the peasants!

I hear your command, and Midjourney obeys:

Spoiler: Large image

 

[Shipyard Locked]

It looks tediously fractal to me. I know, I know, luddite spoil-sport. But it reminds me of the fad infatuation with fractal art, velvet blacklight doodles, photo collage images, and 3D posters of the 90s (y'know, the ones where you had to screw up your eye focus to "get it"?).

Heretic! I will now use the power of AI to turn your very forum avatar into something unsettling! Take this, fishmalk!

Spoiler: Large image

 

[TJS]

Hmmm. Has anyone tried using these to generate really good fantasy world/continent/city maps?

 

[Telok]

Hmmm. Has anyone tried using these to generate really good fantasy world/continent/city maps?

I have a few hanging on my phone and its kiddo bath time. I'll try a few.

Edit.. adding map of Innsmouth crashes wombo

Edit b&w line maps crash out.
Try 1 without reference for "map of a castle"

Edit.. ok the word castle is overriding map most of the time

Edit... isometric "floorplan of a fantasy dungeon"

Edit.. diorama "floorplan of a scifi spaceship dungeon with alien monsters"


Final edit tonight.. do not use any floorplans or deckplans with wombo. They just return errors. Castle, town, spaceship, sailing ship, top down, isometric, lines, color. Nada. Errors out.

 

[TJS]

Yeah I was playing around with it earlier but struggled to get anything that was really like a map as opposed to a maplike artwork.

 

[Shipyard Locked]

Yeah I was playing around with it earlier but struggled to get anything that was really like a map as opposed to a maplike artwork.

I made some attempts:

Spoiler: Large image

Spoiler: Large image

 

[Telok]

I can't say I'm too surprised. The AIs (ended up trying half a dozen freebies) are trained on art trying to look good, not technical drawings that meant to convey information.

Wombo's isometeric was closest, but small. I wonder if you could feed in an isometeric map of a video game level and try to have it generate off of that.

Tried combos of "map", "floorplan", or "deckplan". Followed by nothing, "scifi", or "fantasy". Followed by "dungeon", "castle", or "ship"/"spaceship" depending on the scifi tag.

Uploading reference images of floorplans & stuff never helped. Closest was a decent sailing ship off a d&d ship deck fight map. That didn't result in a deckplan, just a ok ship picture in a similar sepia tone & inked lines style.

Edit: and then i ran across a new one almost instantly

Stable Diffusion 1 - a Hugging Face Space by stabilityai

Discover amazing ML apps made by the community

huggingface.co

Floorplan of scifi spaceship

 

[Skarg]

I've got one to create some good-looking spaceship schematics and external views, but not a good interior floor plan.

Except, of course, for (non-AI): https://www.rolegenerator.com/en/module/spaceship

 

[Fenris-77]

So I typed in RPG Pub war against geese...

 

[Fenris-77]

Also this...

 

[Fenris-77]

OK, one more then I'm done...

 

[Torque2100]

AI artwork is one of those subjects I am really torn on. The issue with AI artwork, IMHO is that it's just automated plagiarism. The fact is that most AI artwork is a collage of art elements from different sources smashed together in an algorithm.

Creating RPG character portraits for personal use is one of the few legitimate uses for AI artwork I can think of. Unfortunately, it's likely not going to end there.

 

[Telok]

Creating RPG character portraits for personal use is one of the few legitimate uses for AI artwork I can think of. Unfortunately, it's likely not going to end there.

Yeah its kinda a touchy subject given there are certain.... mudfledrbked bits to it all.

I feel there's differences when it comes to personal use vs commerical use vs public use. And then there's intent too, did a person do it to get paid, as a gift/freebie/for practice/for funsies, or for a commericial but non-monetary purpose.

Like I make complex starship deckplans for games. They're basically an electronic collage of real ship blueprints and some free pdf Traveller geomorphs, then I put them out where anyone can use them. Chop them up, remix, swap out bits, color them in, whatever you want to do with them. Where do lines get drawn? The naval architects got paid to do a job, what's their moral or commercial claim on my stuff? On some further hack job of my stuff by someone else? How about the awesome dude who did the free geomorphs? Does it matter that we did it for fun with no expectarion of profit? So on and so forth.... just lots of questions, complicated laws that try to treat books like sketches like songs like a live performance like meme jpgs, and corporations who occupy a weird spot as both legally being people-ish yet not for some stuff but not other stuff.

Like it mostly is now, people throwing stuff in black boxes and posting results or doing personal use with no money involved, then there's probably no major issues. Once you get a movie studio to shove the Hairy Potter stuff into an AI writer, reword 2/3 of the dialog, and make a major blockbuster out of "Harvey Pooper and the Sparkly Emo Whaaaa!mpire", then the lawyers come out and we all go to copyright hell.

 

[Allen Varney]

The issue with AI artwork, IMHO is that it's just automated plagiarism. The fact is that most AI artwork is a collage of art elements from different sources smashed together in an algorithm.

This isn't how the technology works. Text-to-image generators don't store actual art elements. They translate a work's characteristics into pure numbers --- technically a vector in latent space. These diffusion generators work by de-noising random fields of color and improvising images based on what emerges from the noise. It's all probability-driven. With the exception of particularly well-known paintings heavily represented in the training data (say, the Mona Lisa or Starry Night), it's not feasible or practical to use these generators to replicate existing works.

 

[Shipyard Locked]

So I typed in RPG Pub war against geese...

The warrior held perfectly still, aware that the beast's eyes mainly sensed movement. One errant twitch and the bloodshed wouldn't cease until either or both of them lay still. In the distance, he could hear his companions fighting their losing battle. Torn between loyalty and self-preservation, he hesitated for what felt like an eternity. The sweat rolled down his back... would it smell his fear?

Spoiler: Large image

 

[Bunch]

The warrior held perfectly still, aware that the beast's eyes mainly sensed movement. One errant twitch and the bloodshed wouldn't cease until either or both of them lay still. In the distance, he could hear his companions fighting their losing battle. Torn between loyalty and self-preservation, he hesitated for what felt like an eternity. The sweat rolled down his back... would it smell his fear?

Spoiler: Large image

I'd like this image better if I was sure the goose wasn't giving commands to the soldier. It's too ambiguous for my tastes.

 

[Tulpa Girl]

Creating RPG character portraits for personal use is one of the few legitimate uses for AI artwork I can think of. Unfortunately, it's likely not going to end there.

That's pretty much where I am on the subject. The only real exception I can think of for commercial use is if your AI generated artwork is based off an artist whose works are in the public domain. For example, if you're publishing an OSR module, and your cover art was generated by an AI prompt that essentially says "John Waterhouse painting a sexy vampire sorceress with castle ruins in the background", I wouldn't have a problem with that.

 

[A Fiery Flying Roll]

AI artwork is one of those subjects I am really torn on. The issue with AI artwork, IMHO is that it's just automated plagiarism. The fact is that most AI artwork is a collage of art elements from different sources smashed together in an algorithm.

Creating RPG character portraits for personal use is one of the few legitimate uses for AI artwork I can think of. Unfortunately, it's likely not going to end there.

I am dryly amused by the fact that some of the people who seem to be kicking off most loudly about this are fan art creators. If this does get stamped on legally, I'm afraid those people selling their own drawings of other people's IP are going to be fucked as well (in fact that's already probably more legally dubious, it just gets mostly ignored).

It's not that I don't understand and even share some of the complaints but it feels like a lot of the discussion round the issue currently is very short sighted.

I'm very leary of calls to weaken fair use protections. And the calls in some circles to essentially make artistic style copywritable is staggeringly bad.

This via Twitter is probably the best overview of the wider concerns from pro fair use people I've seen.

 

[Ben Adams]

I haven't been on deviantart for a while but saw this a few days ago:

 

[Ben Adams]

I'd like this image better if I was sure the goose wasn't giving commands to the soldier. It's too ambiguous for my tastes.

I'd like it better if the soldier was a Runequest duck saying, "I shall protect you with my life your highness."

 

[A Fiery Flying Roll]

Also, forget art. I want software that allows me to put a word document into it and does all the formatting and page design for me.

 

[Ben Adams]

Finally, a JEM and the Hollograms rpg.

 

[Torque2100]

I*Snip*

I certainly agree with the last bit. I think AI art should not have protection and be de-facto Public Domain. This will prevent AI from freezing out creators and still allow the legitimate uses of AI, such as generating art of people's OCs and RPG characters, to flourish. It will still eat into independent artist revenue, but it's better than the alternative.

 

[VisionStorm]

I am dryly amused by the fact that some of the people who seem to be kicking off most loudly about this are fan art creators. If this does get stamped on legally, I'm afraid those people selling their own drawings of other people's IP are going to be fucked as well (in fact that's already probably more legally dubious, it just gets mostly ignored).

It's not that I don't understand and even share some of the complaints but it feels like a lot of the discussion round the issue currently is very short sighted.

I'm very leary of calls to weaken fair use protections. And the calls in some circles to essentially make artistic style copywritable is staggeringly bad.

This via Twitter is probably the best overview of the wider concerns from pro fair use people I've seen.

View attachment 52584

Yeah, I have some concerns about what AI generated art would mean for human artists, particularly since I'm technically an artist (though, I haven't drawn or painted anything in years and my skills have atrophied, but I could still do it if I started practicing again). But a lot of this AI art is clearly transformative work. Unless there are huge recognizable chunks of existing art in the background of one of these images or something arguing that this is infringement would not only be wrong, but would work against human artists if taken seriously by the law.

 

[Fenris-77]

As an anecdotal note, the guy who did the art for my Vac Suits and Duct Tape is working on using AI art as a quick basis for saleable art, touched up to make it 'proper', which I think is a wonderful idea.

 

[Telok]

As an anecdotal note, the guy who did the art for my Vac Suits and Duct Tape is working on using AI art as a quick basis for saleable art, touched up to make it 'proper', which I think is a wonderful idea.

Well yeah. If I'm slamming out a quickie code or scripting bit for someone promising me a pizza it's all "google > copy/pasta > tweak to fit > test > i like garlic on mine". Ya want quality and support there'd better be retirement benefits or a couple kilos dark chocolate involved.

You probably paid more and got more for it. But for the quick & generic stuff, or for generateing thirty rough concepts to bounce off the customer, its a boon for the creator.

 

[Fenris-77]

Well yeah. If I'm slamming out a quickie code or scripting bit for someone promising me a pizza it's all "google > copy/pasta > tweak to fit > test > i like garlic on mine". Ya want quality and support there'd better be retirement benefits or a couple kilos dark chocolate involved.

You probably paid more and got more for it. But for the quick & generic stuff, or for generateing thirty rough concepts to bounce off the customer, its a boon for the creator.

I'm not actually sure what your response has to do with my post. Sorry.

 

[Telok]

I'm not actually sure what your response has to do with my post. Sorry.

Oh, sorry.

Ah, with any work on commission its in the worker's best interest to do a basic effort/reward estimation. Using tools to reduce the effort/time required to meet your goal is a simple logical idea. Using something to spit out a dozen "which of these is most like whay you want" or to produce a reasonable starting point for the work are implementations of that. The bonus is, properly done, it makes people more productive which allows them to increase output, increase quality, decrease price, or some combination there of.

These are good things, having more or better or cheaper product, assuming all other factors stay the same. Mind, it can break down with laws, corps, etc., throwing perverse incentives and screwballs. But in general for workers it can/should be a tool to increase the worker's value.

 

[Bunch]

Oh, sorry.

Ah, with any work on commission its in the worker's best interest to do a basic effort/reward estimation. Using tools to reduce the effort/time required to meet your goal is a simple logical idea. Using something to spit out a dozen "which of these is most like whay you want" or to produce a reasonable starting point for the work are implementations of that. The bonus is, properly done, it makes people more productive which allows them to increase output, increase quality, decrease price, or some combination there of.

These are good things, having more or better or cheaper product, assuming all other factors stay the same. Mind, it can break down with laws, corps, etc., throwing perverse incentives and screwballs. But in general for workers it can/should be a tool to increase the worker's value.

yeah I'd say essentially you're attempting to cut out/down as much of the early back and forth so you can get to what someone thinks they are actually paying you for which is the art part. Customers not realizing the non art part is also a currently sizable chunk of the work is part of a working artists economics issues I'm guessing.

 

[VisionStorm]

yeah I'd say essentially you're attempting to cut out/down as much of the early back and forth so you can get to what someone thinks they are actually paying you for which is the art part. Customers not realizing the non art part is also a currently sizable chunk of the work is part of a working artists economics issues I'm guessing.

Yup. Art is also one of those fields where the client thinks they're paying you to be art director themselves, as opposed to just for the final product and letting you do your own thing following your own process. I had one guy say that he wanted me to draw a logo from scratch rather than work from premade icons and such as a base. Luckily that never went anywhere, cuz those are the worse clients to work with.

I'm guessing people will likely complain, like you're robbing them if they know you're working from AI generate art as a template.

 

[Bunch]

Yup. Art is also one of those fields where the client thinks they're paying you to be art director themselves, as opposed to just for the final product and letting you do your own thing following your own process. I had one guy say that he wanted me to draw a logo from scratch rather than work from premade icons and such as a base. Luckily that never went anywhere, cuz those are the worse clients to work with.

I'm guessing people will likely complain, like you're robbing them if they know you're working from AI generate art as a template.

People complain no matter what. My father designed ships for a living and always preferred to work for commercial folks vs non commercial. The commercial folks knew why they wanted things even if what they wanted was wrong. You could correct them and not get them feeling insulted because all they really wanted was to make money.
Non commercial were alwaysaking wierd nebulous tradeoffs that only they could ultimately decide.