Alternative to kobolds? And things...

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Necrozius

Necrozius

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Okay, I know that kobolds are a big favorite among D&D people. I get it.

But I hate them. The subservient, cowardly, cute dragon-dog people. I hate the memes, the "LOL so cute and wacky" comics and the Gully Dwarf personalities. I refuse to roleplay as them. NO WAY.

What to replace them with? Goblins?

To keep this thread alive, share your own pet peeve D&D-isms that you always swap out for other things.

If you love kobolds and think it is a crime to omit them? Go take a hike, sister.
 
I, too, despise D&D kobolds. But the first time I ran 5e was pretty soon after it had come out and I used the winged kobolds to great effect, and to the frustrated cries of my discombobulated players.

I usually just reskin them as subterranean/mine-dwelling wee-murder-guys. They don't do their own mining, like goblins or whatever, but they infest already existing mineshafts and haunt them, murdering the miners and shit. This means I can have pallid, spooky-eyed kobolds one game, then hairy wee kobolds the next game, floaty blue-skinned asphyxiation kobolds the next, and so on.

As per the secondary question, I always swap out D&D "hand crossbows" for a lecture on how the fuck these things disobey the laws of physics without cutting edge composite materials and engineered rubber. If a player insists because of their "build", then I make sure they realise these "hand crossbows" are special artifacts crafted by the forest elves or rubber-tree dwarves or whatever. If the player agrees to that, then I let them take the hand crossbows, then I destroy or confiscate them at the first opportunity. Fucking hand crossbow cunts. Man up and ask for a brace of pistols, if it's that big a fucking dealio.

Also Bugbears. I love the idea and the stat-blocks. But the Goblin>Hobgoblin>Bugbear conveyor belt is real and makes no sense, yo. So I just have various kinds of goblins. Wee ones. Big ones. Big sneaky sadistic serial killer ones. Did I get this from AD&D Birthright? Could be.
 
I know it's been 5 years since her last bout, but I just can't work up hatred for Kobold:

kelly-kobold.jpg

Seriously, though, I can take them or leave them. Ducks in Runequest? Now there's something I expunge.
 
JAMUMU said:
I, too, despise D&D kobolds. But the first time I ran 5e was pretty soon after it had come out and I used the winged kobolds to great effect, and to the frustrated cries of my discombobulated players.
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Pretty much this.

Until a few weeks ago I hadn't used Kobolds in 20+ years. To mix things up in my current Dragon Age game I stuck in some kobolds, some winged versions, and a mage. The Kobolds had infested a mine the PCs were to clear out and the Kobolds used the other creatures living there to their advantage. The PCs took several hammerings until they figured out their plays and came up with a tactic that worked against them.

But otherwise, I hate them. The players hate them now too :smile:
 
I'm not very creative. I like them played like Elder Scrolls falmer with the serial numbers filed off. More bat like, smarter, meaner, armor made of giant insect carapaces, hunt using sonar (clicking chittery sounds in the dark) and kinda creepy.
 
Fritz said:
I'm not very creative. I like them played like Elder Scrolls falmer with the serial numbers filed off. More bat like, smarter, meaner, armor made of giant insect carapaces, hunt using sonar (clicking chittery sounds in the dark) and kinda creepy.
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I see that you too have drank in the drinking spots of various Scottish post-war industrial towns.
 
I am unfamiliar with these memes, or any cuteness or wackiness. I've always thought of kobolds as vicious, nasty, savage, brutal creatures.

Except in the Dwimmermount setting, where they're evil, vicious, nasty, degenerate dwarves.
 
Sable Wyvern said:
I am unfamiliar with these memes, or any cuteness or wackiness. I've always thought of kobolds as vicious, nasty, savage, brutal creatures.

Except in the Dwimmermount setting, where they're evil, vicious, nasty, degenerate dwarves.
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Apparently, artists have been making "cute" kobolds, don't look at me, my kobolds are the 1E reptilian-dog-faced (But not dogs) people. Japanese Kobolds ARE dog people. I like the idea of combining the Falmer and Bats, I'm also fond of the folklore kobolds

"Although usually invisible, a kobold can materialize in the form of a non-human animal, a fire, a human, and a candle. The most common depictions of kobolds show them as humanlike figures the size of small children. Kobolds who live in human homes wear the clothing of peasants; those who live in mines are hunched and ugly and some can materialize into a brick; kobolds who live on ships smoke pipes and wear sailor clothing."

Look a bunch of rats.....OMG kobolds!
 
If the setting is retrapped for Glorantha, then I'ld go with Enlo (Trollkin)
If it's a generic high fantasy setting, then Goblins or Hobgoblins should be fine.
I've found that Goblins work best if you portray them with lots of mischief and other eccentricities, even make them almost a bit Brian Froudish at times.
However keep them very nasty, as they are ultimately there to be fought in most rpg scenarios.
 
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I only ever used Kobolds for my first few adventures decades ago around 1990-91, then just went straight to Goblins and forgot Kobolds ever existed. I particularly don't like how they've been morphed into reptilian humanoid descendants of dragons over the years. They were always tiny dog people not good enough to be used instead of goblins to me. I don't really hate them, I just don't see the point of them.
 
Okay, so lots of great ideas for replacing WotC's "Kobolds™". I think I've settled on Goblins but with trappings and behaviors from other things. They all wear red hats and helmets, for example (Redcaps). They have minor illusion magic like a variety of folkloric tales (hence how they can survive in a mega dungeon ecosystem).

Cheers folks!

I guess we can use this thread to discuss other substitutions that you habitually do or plan to do in your campaigns?
 
Necrozius said:
Okay, I know that kobolds are a big favorite among D&D people. I get it.

But I hate them. The subservient, cowardly, cute dragon-dog people. I hate the memes, the "LOL so cute and wacky" comics and the Gully Dwarf personalities. I refuse to roleplay as them. NO WAY.

What to replace them with? Goblins?

To keep this thread alive, share your own pet peeve D&D-isms that you always swap out for other things.

If you love kobolds and think it is a crime to omit them? Go take a hike, sister.
Click to expand...
Murlocks. Or man-eating ant-people.

Tucker's Ant-People:thumbsup:!
 
Sable Wyvern said:
I am unfamiliar with these memes, or any cuteness or wackiness. I've always thought of kobolds as vicious, nasty, savage, brutal creatures.

Except in the Dwimmermount setting, where they're evil, vicious, nasty, degenerate dwarves.
Click to expand...

8a3b5f61-7991-4295-a8a0-fd594e109072.jpg
I have this by my writing desk.

Mind you, I'm the antithesis of the OP. I actually had the main character of my Supervillainy Saga novels get a tribe of Kobolds to worship him as a god. They dug a massive dungeon in his back yard and filled it with traps. His wife complains about how the fact they've started growing mushrooms in their manure in the basement and are looking for monsters to recruit to live there.

Basically, D&D Gremlins.
 
I have an aversion to many creatures in the D20 bestiary, kobolds being one of them. I read the description back in the 70's and said "nope!" When I run a campaign with traditional orcs, my default is that all the goblinoids are one race. The vast majority are zero level kobolds (think small goblins), the few that level up become goblins. The next level is orc, then uruk, plus intermediate levels like "orc chieftain" etc.

Way way back in the day, White Dwarf introduced an anti-hobbit goblinoid, which later appeared in the original Fiend Folio. I can't be bothered to go look the race up, but I thought it was the most pointless expansion of the race ever.

I find the distaste for Gloranthan ducks perplexing. I look at it this way: Traditional hobbits resemble rural English farmers; Dark Sun halflings are barbarian meat eaters; Gloranthan halflings have feathers, etc. In Gloranthan inspired campaigns, the ducks are a small race of beast people living in a nearby marsh, nothing more or less.

I dislike "half" races. I know Gygax put them in because Tolkien had them (and for min-maxers), but I've always felt to be half whatever requires a special dispensation from TPTB, and always have a destiny. So, no to half dragons, no to have angels, no to half devils, etc.

I really really don't like "color coded for your convenience" races. To my mind, I shouldn't be able to tell the abilities of a dragon (something I believe should each be designed) at a glance. Same with elves: They vary by culture, but any given elf in my campaigns will have sliding scales of whimsy, sadism, autism, and psychopathy. I seldom allow them as PCs because they are just too weird.
 
Midas said:
I really really don't like "color coded for your convenience" races. To my mind, I shouldn't be able to tell the abilities of a dragon (something I believe should each be designed) at a glance. Same with elves: They vary by culture, but any given elf in my campaigns will have sliding scales of whimsy, sadism, autism, and psychopathy. I seldom allow them as PCs because they are just too weird.
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I share your attitude to ducks, and your approach to elves basically mirrors mine. Tell me more about your elves:shade:!


...OK, that's a sentence I never expected to write:shock:!
 
While I'm actually sort of fond of the dragon-goblin manifestation, I thought the more classical interpretation in The Hero's Journey as reclusive mine-dwelling gnome-dwarves was also well done.
 
Necrozius said:
Okay, I know that kobolds are a big favorite among D&D people. I get it.

But I hate them. The subservient, cowardly, cute dragon-dog people. I hate the memes, the "LOL so cute and wacky" comics and the Gully Dwarf personalities. I refuse to roleplay as them. NO WAY.

What to replace them with? Goblins?

To keep this thread alive, share your own pet peeve D&D-isms that you always swap out for other things.

If you love kobolds and think it is a crime to omit them? Go take a hike, sister.
Click to expand...
I mean, I've long disliked most D&D-isms. I have little or no use for any of them. They tend to be too wacky/gonzo and/or cliche` and/or unbelievable for me, and I associate them with "that other RPG that makes much less sense and has a lame combat system". I don't much care for the "it's a this-plus-that" e.g. dragon-dog, owl-bear, ogre-pixie or whatever. Tends to break my ability to take the setting seriously.

So, Kobolds, Gully Dwarves, Owl Bears, Drow Elves, Tieflings, and many others I'm blissfully not thinking about, are all nope for me.

I am happy in settings with "just" humans, especially if they have different cultures.

The cliche` fantasy races I don't mind much (as long as they're not too D&D-flavored) are dwarves, some elves, some orcs, goblins, hobgoblins, ogres, trolls, maybe giants.

I have managed to mostly avoid games with kobolds since about 1980. I don't really care to know much about them, but I don't see what they offer that can't be provided by humans, goblins, hobgoblins, or orcs. The only real advantages of kobolds seem to be D&D-branding and having something very non-human so you can have them do silly things and/or exterminate them with the peace of mind that comes with extreme "other-ing".
 
Yeah big dislike from me regarding the dragon-halflings or the dog-faced pygmies or whatever.
Traditional Kobolds sound far more interesting to me: Kobolds
 
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How about hobgoblins?

Like, proper little hobgoblins: small, hairy little men doing odd jobs around the house while you're sleeping, unless you annoy them or give them new clothes. Not the militaristic Samurai types you all thought of when you read that.
 
Vile Traveller said:
How about hobgoblins?

Like, proper little hobgoblins: small, hairy little men doing odd jobs around the house while you're sleeping, unless you annoy them or give them new clothes. Not the militaristic Samurai types you all thought of when you read that.
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Hobgoblins are superior to orcs in D&D.

D&D orcs are stupid cavemen and savages.

Hobgoblins are intelligent fascists who instinctively worship Dark Lords like Liches and Blackguards.

In other words, D&D Hobgoblins are the REAL orcs.
 
I vastly prefer Oldhammer Orks and Goblins to most other versions, comedy included.
 
CT_Phipps said:
Hobgoblins are superior to orcs in D&D.

D&D orcs are stupid cavemen and savages.

Hobgoblins are intelligent fascists who instinctively worship Dark Lords like Liches and Blackguards.

In other words, D&D Hobgoblins are the REAL orcs.
Click to expand...

Yeah, that's why I usually don't use Hobgoblins and use Orcs instead. Though, they're still savages, but more aggressive than dumb. If I want a big goblin, I just use a Bugbear. Hobgoblins just seem redundant.
 
Of course part of the reason for numerous humanoids in D&D is that each historically had fixed hit dice, so you ranged from kobolds as less than 1 HD through goblins, orcs, hobgoblins, etc. Another of course is drawing from a variety of mythic sources.

In my Cold Iron campaigns, I tend to reduce the number of humanoids since they have levels I can make more powerful goblins without needing a new humanoid stock.

Thieves Guild has kobolds being related to hobbits. They have different thief skill bonuses than goblins (or hobbits). For a hot minute, we had a goblin AND a kobold PC. Actually we had two goblin PCs (a male and a female, very gender differentiated in Thieves Guild). Actually the kobold player may have dropped out before any of the goblin PCs joined.
 
VisionStorm said:
Yeah, that's why I usually don't use Hobgoblins and use Orcs instead. Though, they're still savages, but more aggressive than dumb. If I want a big goblin, I just use a Bugbear. Hobgoblins just seem redundant.
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The question thus becomes are you using orcs or hobgoblins called orcs then? :smile:

But yes, dividing up the goblin races was and is silly.
 
  • I use mutants, man-apes, grimlocks, deep ones, vegepygmies, neanderthals, and degenerates instead of traditional D&D humanoids.
  • I reskin bugbears to voormi.
  • Orcs aren't misunderstood noble green savages, they are the degenerate descendants of humans and swine-daemons.
 
I do like how Glorantha works (mostly) with trollkind, but then some others like baboons, tusk riders, and morokanth, also their take on ogres. And ducks....

I don't like Gloranthan dwarves but putting a more traditional dwarf in using the same stats works.

I do like Gloranthan elves etc. though the elf stats are just too good to work well for PCs, and all Aldryami really should require a dedicated player.

When I convert D&D modules to RQ, I either use Uz as makes sense, or completely rework the module.
 
CT_Phipps said:
The question thus becomes are you using orcs or hobgoblins called orcs then? :smile:

But yes, dividing up the goblin races was and is silly.
Click to expand...
I don't think it's totally silly, but there maybe should have been other considerations for how to have power gradation. Or more attention paid to the source myths so the different types are either in distinct geographic regions, or have more defined and distinct roles than "here's the <1 HD monster, here's the 1 HD monster, here's the 2 HD monster..."
 
CT_Phipps said:
The question thus becomes are you using orcs or hobgoblins called orcs then? :smile:
Click to expand...

I see them as a mixture of both, but closer to the latter I suppose. But they're so mechanically and conceptually similar they might as well be the same thing.

CT_Phipps said:
But yes, dividing up the goblin races was and is silly.
Click to expand...

I can see a niche for different sized goblins. I see goblins as phenetically variable enough to have small and big guys mixed. And bugbears are actually a thing related to goblins in folklore. But D&D Hobgoblins are just not distinct enough from orcs to warrant a separate entry.
 
ffilz said:
I don't think it's totally silly, but there maybe should have been other considerations for how to have power gradation. Or more attention paid to the source myths so the different types are either in distinct geographic regions, or have more defined and distinct roles than "here's the <1 HD monster, here's the 1 HD monster, here's the 2 HD monster..."
Click to expand...

It's not entirely silly since there's 50 kinds of elves but it's noticeable in things like Spelljammer where they introduced the Scro who are orcs that are intelligent, organized on military lines, and larger than normal.

Me: So Hobgoblins.
 
I'd get rid of elves before I got rid of Orks in a fantasy setting. Especially the Baskin Robins 36 flavours special Elf subrace menu we have now.
 
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