Alternative to kobolds? And things...

[ffilz]

Nilbogs were in the Fiend Folio, I believe. They may have gained HP from damage and lost it from healing, if I remember right. Because they're backwards, see. It was very clever

Yep. I was surprised it made it into the Fiend Folio. One of several things that reduced the appeal of the Fiend Folio to me. Nilbogs being written up in White Dwarf magazine was funny. Being included in the Fiend Folio was just too much.

 

[Mangoplum]

I never thought about kobolds much until I played World of Warcraft and dealt with those fuzzy miner critters wearing candles on their heads. Loved them! They're funny/sad and mean. Kind of Skaven-like.
But I've no investment in calling them 'kobolds'... they could just be degenerate gnomes for all I care.

 

[Skarg]

Wow. I don't even know, nor really want to know, what D&D hobgoblins are. TFT hobgoblins are simple-minded brutal goblins that are bigger than TFT goblins, but smaller than TFT orcs (who are the same size as TFT humans). In our campaigns, TFT hobgoblins were often servants or slaves, as they tend not to be very smart or competent.

 

[TristramEvans]

Halflings are closer to real Hobgoblins than anything that I've seen in post D&D fantasy

 

[Agemegos]

Hobgoblins are small household sprites, ugly but benign, that help with the household chores in exchange for gifts of milk and food. They may be offended, banished, or released from service by gifts of clothing. Hobgoblins differ from brownies in sometimes being mischievous.

Kobolds are the same thing as hobgoblins except in German, and except that some kobolds infest mines or ships rather than houses.

 

[TristramEvans]

well, Brownies turned into Boggarts when they get pissed off, according to Briggs

 

[Agemegos]

well, Brownies turned into Boggarts when they get pissed off, according to Briggs

So not much difference from hobgoblins after all.

 

[CT_Phipps]

Wow. I don't even know, nor really want to know, what D&D hobgoblins are. TFT hobgoblins are simple-minded brutal goblins that are bigger than TFT goblins, but smaller than TFT orcs (who are the same size as TFT humans). In our campaigns, TFT hobgoblins were often servants or slaves, as they tend not to be very smart or competent.

In D&D, hobgoblins are smarter, stronger, larger, and more military disciplined versions of goblins. They're Lawful Evil to Orcs' Chaotic Evil.

In other words, Tolkien Orcs.

 

[AsenRG]

I'd get rid of elves...

...with extreme prejudice, right?
Sign me up! I mean, I've done it a couple times already in different settings, I've got the practice!


Also, that description of kobold by TristramEvans has just added a mine-bound Chinese ghost (of a miner) to my tomorrow's session!

 

[Sloth_in_a_bowl]

In my D&D then the goblins that PCs encounter tend to be land based equivalents of pirate or viking raiders. Basically population pressure pushes out the younger aggressive adults into bands to gain wealth and potential land to colonise. They create underground bases from which to raid and control an area.

Once you get past those raider groups then the majority of goblins are more of a standard late dark age civilisation which are open to normal diplomacy and trade with humans, elves, dwarves, etc.

 

[rumble]

Dwarves.
Ugh.

Never understood the attraction to hairy mole creatures who'd frack and mine the ever-living shit out of your fantasy world if the other races didn't stop them.

Definitely throwaway villain material.

 

[cranebump]

Last 10 years of GMing: kobold count: 0.

I guess I don’t like them? Then again, my campaign world has 1 dragon in it. For the moment.:-)

 

[Vile Traveller]

I have a setting where all the non-human humanoids are goblins, just in different shapes and sizes. More like the traditional mythology. Elves, dwarfs, pixies, sprites, kobolds, trolls, they're all goblins.

 

[Lofgeornost]

I find the distaste for Gloranthan ducks perplexing. I look at it this way: Traditional hobbits resemble rural English farmers; Dark Sun halflings are barbarian meat eaters; Gloranthan halflings have feathers, etc. In Gloranthan inspired campaigns, the ducks are a small race of beast people living in a nearby marsh, nothing more or less.

I dislike "half" races. I know Gygax put them in because Tolkien had them (and for min-maxers), but I've always felt to be half whatever requires a special dispensation from TPTB, and always have a destiny. So, no to half dragons, no to have angels, no to half devils, etc.

In my case, I dislike Gloranthan ducks because they immediately call to mind two other pop-culture things that break any sense of immersion or seriousness: Donald Duck and his extended family, and Howard the Duck. In fact, I've rarely played in a Gloranthan RQ game where somebody--either a player or the gm--didn't attempt to do a 'Donald-Duck voice' when a duck was speaking.

For me, it is as if the game had a race called the Bozoids who all looked and acted like Bozo the Clown. The presence of such a thing would just destroy any ability I might have to suspend disbelief, or however you want to put it.

I think Tolkien was onto something when he argued that a constructed language needs a constructed history and mythology to go with it. Esperanto is soulless.

I agree, though Esperanto is soulless on purpose.

Back to kobolds. At the risk of sinning against the O.P., I'll admit to having a soft spot for them, though I wouldn't mind playing in a game which did not use them. My reasons for liking them are purely personal; odd relics of the early days of D&D.

One is a strange phrasing in the OD&D rule books. About kobolds, it says “treat these monsters as if they were goblins except that they take 1-3 hits.” Gygax apparently meant 1 to 3 points of damage, but back in the day some of my gaming group interpreted this literally: kobolds could take 1 to 3 attacks, regardless of how much damage each of those attacks did. So a kobold who could withstand 3 ‘hits’ could keep going after 2 fireballs, etc. It made them interestingly different opponents, because high-damage attacks were no more useful against them than low-damage ones.

The other reason is that a member of the group, a talented artist for a teen, drew a D&D-themed comic strip entitled “Klutzo Kobold” after its main character. It ran in our local fanzine, the Dungeon Chronicle. I lost my copies years ago, unfortunately.

 

[opaopajr]

Definitely not restricted to a D&D-ism as you readily see this in skill-based games too, but I never abide by the "PCs are a cut above NPCs" except in a game's conceit about social status (e.g. L5R).

Keeps players on their toes. You are NOT the only hero. Others were here in the fictive world before you, are here now, and will be when your PC exits the stage. Your PCs are special and precious because you have the GM's full attention. Go live out this pretend life like it matters, treat other pretend lives with similar gravity.

A setting with unpredictable bite helps prevent devolution into farce, in my opinion.

 

[Fritz]

To keep this thread alive, share your own pet peeve D&D-isms that you always swap out for other things.

Necromancers or not inherently evil narcissistic death obsessed black metal stereotypes bent on doing bad things in cemeteries. They are more like ghost busters and psychical researchers. Have issues with the restless dead? Call you're local resident professional at the Necromancers Union. Granted, every guild has a few bad apples...

I once played a necro based on Zelda Rubinstein's character from Poltergeist.
I think she got eaten by a roper.

 

[Fenris-77]

Definitely not restricted to a D&D-ism as you readily see this in skill-based games too, but I never abide by the "PCs are a cut above NPCs" except in a game's conceit about social status (e.g. L5R).

Keeps players on their toes. You are NOT the only hero. Others were here in the fictive world before you, are here now, and will be when your PC exits the stage. Your PCs are special and precious because you have the GM's full attention. Go live out this pretend life like it matters, treat other pretend lives with similar gravity.

A setting with unpredictable bite helps prevent devolution into farce, in my opinion.

See that's funny. I always read that D&D bit as the PCs are a cut above common folk, not NPCs generally. Depending on system and how levelled NPCs are statted it might apply to other NPCs, but I'd never suggest to the players that that was so.

 

[Midas]

I share your attitude to ducks, and your approach to elves basically mirrors mine. Tell me more about your elves!


...OK, that's a sentence I never expected to write!

Hmnn
OK, probably a looooonnnnnggggg post, but I hope not a rambling one.

I like Tolkien, but I don't buy that his elves are particularly good people. Not just for the Kinslaying, but a lot of their behavior is pretty squalid even by medieval standards. I don't like Moorcock, but the Melniboneans come pretty close to my view of <sarcasm>"The Fair Folk."

When the whimsy is dialed up too much, you get Flower from "Ghosts." When the psychopathy is high, you get someone like the Lord of the Twin Bridge" from "Game of Thrones." Both, and you get a Ramsey Bolton: "Torture a guy into becoming my personal dog? Sounds like fun!"

High aspergers, and you get Sheldon Cooper. "I know the human is trying to tell me something. He wants me to 'read between the lines.' I wish he would just up and say whatever it is, directly."

I have four campaigns with elves in them.
The first is a kitchen sink campaign, where I took the challenge of "any race, any scenario," and tried to get it to fit. The Elf kingdoms are xenophobic, culturally related to the elves of Dragonlance or WH Fantasy.

The second has an Elfquest background. Elves are very rare, there is only one in the campaign area, and she values her privacy. In essence, a WH40K Eldar craftship crashed on the planet "a long long time ago." These elves are immortal, and never "went native," but are highly dispersed.

The third is Bronze age pseudo Med. Centered around the Kingdom of Phrygia and their eternal fool King Midas. Phrygia is a great power, because they have both gold (a bit too much) and iron (or they used to). They bought iron from the Centaurs of the Balkans, who got the iron from "The Stunted Folk" of the Carpathian Mountains. The short folk need wood for smelting iron and marched into the forests to the north. They and their iron have never been seen again. But the centaurs have produced a new meat, called "pork."
Midas has the ears of an ass. His mother is Circe. Circe has a spell to turn troublesome people into swine...

I have always wanted to do a "What if Santa was real?" campaign. According to history when Nicolas was clashing with the cult of Artemis, he destroyed her temple. The spirits who lived there cried "We have done you no harm. Why did you destroy our home? Where shall we live?"
And Nicholas replied "Go north to the place prepared for you!"
Now think about "Christmas Carol." People are chained to the earth by their greed in life. Along come these tall thin pointed eared types with knives and gouges. "You want to get rid of that money? The Red Man can use it. This might be a little painful." Then they go full Ramsey Bolton on the ghost. After which they use the money to buy crap to disperse over Christmas. It is no coincidence about portrayals of the devil being a tall thin pointed eared man.