Anime and Manga Discussion Thread

TristramEvans

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So any opinions on the controversy surrounding Netflix re-dubbing Evangelion?
 

Gabriel

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So any opinions on the controversy surrounding Netflix re-dubbing Evangelion?
I've never liked Evangelion. I don't think Netflix redubbing it will change that.

But regarding the original ADV Dub...

ADV recycled voice actors in all their dubs by necessity. I associated Shinji's voice actor much more with Akito from Nadesico.

But once you get used to one dub, it's hard to ever get used to another. Or at least that's how it is for me. ADV's dub of Macross is almost impossible for me to watch because I'm so used to the Robotech voice actors.
 

TristramEvans

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Thought of another one...Ghost Stories. Ghost Stories is somewhat remarkable in how not remarkable it is. It is a bottom-of-the-barrel, cliche, formulaic show, the anime equivalent of some forgettable 90s sitcom. It was obviously produced on the cheap as a filler for TV. There is nothing good, interesting, or recommendable about the original Japanese show.

But here's where there's a twist. The American studio that got it as part of a distribution deal no doubt got it on the cheap (probably lumped-in with some high-profile anime), so when it came time to do an English Dub, apparently they just didn't give a crap. And this led to something....glorious.

Imagine, if you will, a group of professional voice actors, hired for an anime everyone knew was bad, given the basic plot of each episode, and basically told "do whatever the hell you want". The result is hilarious in a way I can only compare to my earliest exposure to MST3K. The English Dub of Ghost Stories is insane in the best possible ways. Any further explanation could not do it any sort of justice, so here's a small compilation:

Warning: NSFW and very offensive
 

EmperorNorton

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I'm going to express two opinions here, which may seem contradictory. First of all, I think NGE is incredibly, incredibly overrated. I think it gets a lot of love from edgy 14 year olds who are trying to read some deep meaning into it.

That said, I'm going to defend it a bit here.

The thing about NGE is that it is a deconstruction of the Giant Robot anime genre. Like, a lot of the things people complain about, that is the point. The point is that it is taking the tropes of the genre and turning them on their heads and going "uh, yeah, this is kind of messed up right?"

Like, would a father who devotes his entire life to building some giant top secret robot that never saw his kid really be that good of a person?
Or would a teenager who has no real parental figure really be psychologically stable enough to put the weight of the world on their shoulders and save the world? Would they even want to do the thing their absent dad is asking them to do?

A lot of what is good about NGE requires you to understand the genre and tropes that it is referencing.

As for why its overrated: 1. yeah the christian imagery was pretty much just used cause it was cool, and 2. It had massive budget and time constraint issues that basically screwed over the whole thing. Like it felt like it could have really gone somewhere, but then it just kind of didn't cause I don't think they were given the full workspace and time to finish it. And I don't judge what COULD be, I judge what is, and honestly NGE, even with the later movies, still feels unfinished and like a promise of a story unfulfilled.

Also, I might like anime a little bit. (Was a much bigger fan like 10 years ago, still watch anime now though, and think it is a very worthwhile medium).
 

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I loved hearing Leonardo’s voice all over the place. Err, the voice actor of the first TMNT cartoon. Especially in Akira. Hilarious.
 

Gabriel

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I don't like my anime dubbed. That's for kids.
I'm indifferent. Dub or sub, it usually doesn't matter.

That said, I prefer dub for more casual viewing. With a sub, I have to sit there and dedicate myself to watching. With a dub, I can just let it play in the background and watch with divided attention.
 

3rik

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I'm indifferent. Dub or sub, it usually doesn't matter.

That said, I prefer dub for more casual viewing. With a sub, I have to sit there and dedicate myself to watching. With a dub, I can just let it play in the background and watch with divided attention.
I'm used to subs. Everything is subbed here. Often we'll even turn on English subs for programs with English audio.
 

EmperorNorton

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I often turn on the english subs for stuff with english audio because of the insane audio balancing that gets done these days. Sometimes its hard to hear what anyone is saying (for stuff naturally in English, I tend to watch subs with original language for everything, though there are exceptions. I legit like the Martian Successor Nadesico English dub.)
 

Voros

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Subs for quality, dubs for trash.
 

TristramEvans

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If I'm going to watch an anime , I want to actually watch it, not read it. I don't care if the translation isn't exact, it'snot exactly Dostoyevsky, for me it's dubs all de way
 

3rik

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If I'm going to watch an anime , I want to actually watch it, not read it. I don't care if the translation isn't exact, it'snot exactly Dostoyevsky, for me it's dubs all de way
I'm used to it. It's automatic. It doesn't feel like I'm reading an anime. I usually prefer the original voices to the ones in the dub.
 

Voros

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I'm used to it. It's automatic. It doesn't feel like I'm reading an anime. I usually prefer the original voices to the ones in the dub.
Ditto. I forget I’m watching something with subtitles after the first bit usually. Some anime have terrible subs though and still use white text on screen which can be hard to read, something art films stopped doing long ago.
 

3rik

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Ditto. I forget I’m watching something with subtitles after the first bit usually. Some anime have terrible subs though and still use white text on screen which can be hard to read, something art films stopped doing long ago.
It's very common for us to watch subtitled movies and TV programs. Contrary to our neighbours in Germany, where almost everything gets dubbed. We grow up with it, so it becomes second nature.

Unless it gets really incomprehensible I still prefer bad subs to weird-sounding dubs.
 

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If it's a good Dub I'll watch it, I really like Cowboy Bebop's and Trigun's and in some cases I prefer the Dub when they get great voice actors. However I often find the Dubs are very flat or passionless compared to the original, the Japanese actors really go all out in action anime*, so I usually watch Subs or simply just the Subs come out first and I'm used to the Japanese voices.

*This is part of why I don't find One Punch Man as funny in English as in Japanese.
 

TristramEvans

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One Punch Man I didn't have the patience to wait for the dub, so I watched the sub. But I still find it frustrating because for me it's all about the art. I for some reason don't mind subs in live action films at all
 

EmperorNorton

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There is a difference in Japanese and English acting styles. Japanese has a lot more over the top melodrama tones that generally tend to sound ridiculous in English to me that would sound completely normal in Japanese for some reason.
 

Séadna

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One Punch Man I didn't have the patience to wait for the dub, so I watched the sub. But I still find it frustrating because for me it's all about the art. I for some reason don't mind subs in live action films at all
Yeah I can get that. I'd be like Voros and 3rik in that I don't even know I'm reading as such in a conscious sense after a while, hard to explain. Things like that can often be due to individual wiring. There obviously is a trade off in mental attention, so in some sense I probably am taking in the art less, but this might frustrate me less because I'm less artistically sensitive (not sure how to phrase this correctly) than you.

I think I remember psychology papers along these lines, that people who scored high on musical appreciation often get more frustrated with poor background music in Films and TV or when good music is interrupted by the visuals requiring attention.
 
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Voros

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There is a difference in Japanese and English acting styles. Japanese has a lot more over the top melodrama tones that generally tend to sound ridiculous in English to me that would sound completely normal in Japanese for some reason.
I’d say that tends to be more true in popular culture in Japan, one strong tradition is certainly more expressive compared to the modern style in US films. Perhaps coming from their theatre tradition or just the tendency of their art to deal with extremes of emotion and mental states?

But in the films of Ozu or Kore-eda they also can be downright minimalist or naturalistic. Often of course the same actors will be wildly expressive in one kind of film and subtle and natural in another (here I think of Mifune). Anime doesn’t tend to be a subtle form though, like American exploitation films in that regard.

One reason I prefer Japanese lang with subs is the Japanese tends to be more subtle than the broad English dubs.
 
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Voros

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Luca

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The thing about NGE is that it is a deconstruction of the Giant Robot anime genre.
Madoka is a deconstruction of the mahou shoujo genre, and it's a masterpiece.
NGE wanted to be a deconstruction of the mecha genre, but it's crap.

Deconstruction is not that easy to pull off...
 

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Just before I head off to bed, I read a few of the papers on the subject there and there seems to be a general agreement that if you watch a Sub you'll understand a scene better, but if you watch a Dub the overall narrative is comprehended better. Obviously there is individual variation.
 

TristramEvans

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Just before I head off to bed, I read a few of the papers on the subject there and there seems to be a general agreement that if you watch a Sub you'll understand a scene better, but if you watch a Dub the overall narrative is comprehended better. Obviously there is individual variation.
I don't claim to do either better, lol, but I'm a visual person, certainly. I just watched the latest episode of One Punch man tonight, with subtitles, as the Dub hasn't come out yet, and I do understand exactly is meant that they sort of "fade out of consciousness", but I still feel like I can't concentrate on the visuals as much as I want (though, admittedly, this lends them quite a bit of re-watch-ability - I tend to, if the series is good, discover new details each time.

Other thoughts: OPM I tend to associate with Overlord to a degree, because they are both ostensibly absurd Power fantasies, yet both manage to transcend that in very clever ways. Unfortunately, while I can deal with the rather lower standard in animation on Overlord, with One Punch the quality has very noticeably decreased this season, which is a shame. The fight scenes in the first season were astounding, hitting Akira-levels of sakuga.
 

EmperorNorton

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On the subject of fight scenes, imo the best fight scenes from any anime ever are from the movie Sword of the Stranger. All the fight scenes in it or amazing, but the last one just ramps up to insanely beautiful.
 

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Back in the day, before I knew any better, I thought that the fight scenes in Ninja Scroll were pretty cool.

The last one bored me, though (punch punch punch combo repeat animation loop over and over...).

EDIT: IMGUR LINKS WEIRDLY
 

Giganotosaurus

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Finished the last episode of Overlord. Now I wait for the 4th season, while eyeing those light novels.
 

urbwar

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I never read any manga, but I was into anime when I was younger (more than I am now). Star Blazers & Battle of the Planets were the first ones I remember watching. Some of my favorites are:

Ninja Scroll (movie, though I liked the tv series)
Megazone 23
Bubblegum Crisis (and associated anime, like AD Police Files, Madox - 01 and Parasite Dolls)
Cyber City Oedo
Patlabor: The Mobile Police
Everything Slayers (because Lina Inverse is hilarious)
Demon City Shinjuku
Doomed Megalopolis
The first two Star Blazer series (never saw the third)
Devil Hunter Yohko

There is more, but those are the only ones I remember at the moment

I tried watching a newer one called Tiger & Bunny (which is about super heroes in a competition), but it was so-so. I started to watch Rah-Xephon on Prime. I'm about 3 episodes in. Not sure how I feel about it yet
 

Gabriel

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I never read any manga, but I was into anime when I was younger (more than I am now). Star Blazers & Battle of the Planets were the first ones I remember watching. Some of my favorites are:
Battle of the Planets, Star Blazers, and Robotech are the holy trinity.



Ninja Scroll (movie, though I liked the tv series)
Same. Never bothered watching the series. I understand it's completely unrelated except for names of characters.

Megazone 23
I could never really get into it. I only watched it because of it's tangential relation to Robotech (having been used for footage for Robotech the Movie). I find Megazone 23 (the first one) watchable, which is way more than I can say for Robotech The Movie.

Bubblegum Crisis (and associated anime, like AD Police Files, Madox - 01 and Parasite Dolls)
I don't think I've ever heard of Parasite Dolls, but I'm a fan of all the rest.

Cyber City Oedo
I learned of this one thanks to The Spoony Experiment. Noah Antwiler was using footage from it and the cursing in order to illustrate how stupid anime was. For me it had the opposite effect. I saw that clip and was like "what is this show and where can I get it?"

I think the episode Psychic Trooper is the best. I also understand there's an alternate version of the dub with a different soundtrack, but I've never watched the other version.

The first two Star Blazer series (never saw the third)
Same. The station out of Dallas only showed the Iskandar and Comet Empire seasons as far as I'm aware. I've never seen Bolar Wars or watched any of the movies which came after Comet Empire.

To me, the ending of Comet Empire is perfect. There's just that sound of the Yamato/Argo's engines as she returns to Earth for the denouement. What else can really be said? There doesn't need to be anything more after that. Anything after that just ruins the feeling of that one beautiful moment.

So of course one of the movies literally picks up one second after that ending shot. Bah!

All that said, definitely check out Yamato 2199 (Star Blazers 2199) if you haven't already. It's a really good remake. I like it better than the original Iskandar story.
 

urbwar

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Battle of the Planets, Star Blazers, and Robotech are the holy trinity.
The only Robotech I saw was the movie based on the series. I just wasn't that interested in checking out the series back then. I am now, but then not really

Same. Never bothered watching the series. I understand it's completely unrelated except for names of characters.
It's the same Jubei from the movie; everything else is new

I could never really get into it. I only watched it because of it's tangential relation to Robotech (having been used for footage for Robotech the Movie). I find Megazone 23 (the first one) watchable, which is way more than I can say for Robotech The Movie.
I saw the first two, but not the third (at least I don't remember the third after reading a synopsis of it)

I don't think I've ever heard of Parasite Dolls, but I'm a fan of all the rest.
Parasite Dolls was an 3 part OVA. If you google it, you will find it on Youtube. It's darker than Bubblegum Crisis, which I liked. One of the cops in the series is a Boomer himself, which was an interesting twist


I learned of this one thanks to The Spoony Experiment. Noah Antwiler was using footage from it and the cursing in order to illustrate how stupid anime was. For me it had the opposite effect. I saw that clip and was like "what is this show and where can I get it?"

I think the episode Psychic Trooper is the best. I also understand there's an alternate version of the dub with a different soundtrack, but I've never watched the other version.
Yeah, it has it's charm. I just liked that they were using bad guys to catch other bad guys. Kind of a prototype for The Suicide Squad in some way.

Same. The station out of Dallas only showed the Iskandar and Comet Empire seasons as far as I'm aware. I've never seen Bolar Wars or watched any of the movies which came after Comet Empire.

To me, the ending of Comet Empire is perfect. There's just that sound of the Yamato/Argo's engines as she returns to Earth for the denouement. What else can really be said? There doesn't need to be anything more after that. Anything after that just ruins the feeling of that one beautiful moment.

So of course one of the movies literally picks up one second after that ending shot. Bah!

All that said, definitely check out Yamato 2199 (Star Blazers 2199) if you haven't already. It's a really good remake. I like it better than the original Iskandar story.
I heard of 2199. I'll look for it when I can. I am sure it's better than that live action film
 

3rik

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I used to occasionally catch German-overdubbed episodes of Captain Future (キャプテン・フューチャー Kyaputen Fyūchā ), which never made it onto Dutch televison. Would love to see the subtitled Japanese language originals, produced by Toei in 1978, someday. There were apparently 53 episodes. They've so far proven impossible to find, though I read there's a Blue Ray boxset of the original series with German subtitles, that also contains the German-language edit of the series that was broadcast on German television. I can understand spoken German fairly well, but I'm very slow at reading it...
 
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TristramEvans

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I used to occasionally catch German-overdubbed episodes of Captain Future (キャプテン・フューチャー Kyaputen Fyūchā ), which never made it onto Dutch televison. Would love to see the subtitled Japanese language originals, produced by Toei in 1978, someday. There were apparently 53 episodes. They've so far proven impossible to find, though I read there's a Blue Ray boxset of the original series with German subtitles, that also contains the German-language edit of the series that was broadcast on German television. I can understand spoken German fairly well, but I'm very slow at reading it...
 

Templum Domini

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Tell us more about it.
Well, it's a strange Anime. Made by the creator of Revolutionary Girl Utena, but focusing on boys instead. It revolves around a conflict between Kappas and Otters and three middle-schoolers caught in their struggle, as well as the theme of 'connections' to each other and the rest of humanity.
 
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