Anime and Manga Discussion Thread

EmperorNorton

Legendary Member
Joined
Jun 3, 2018
Messages
2,708
Reaction score
6,014
Isekai is technically just someone from our world to another. Like Escaflowne is an isekai (and I really like Escaflowne). D&D Cartoon would be isekai as well. Tanya the Evil is also a more recent isekai that isn't "video game" themed.

I just think there has been this crazy glut of video game themed ones recently that is driving me nuts.

That said, I did like Re:Creators which is a reverse isekai (people from fictional universes (manga/anime/light novels/video games) start appearing in modern day Japan).
 

EmperorNorton

Legendary Member
Joined
Jun 3, 2018
Messages
2,708
Reaction score
6,014
Oh, also there was a gag manga isekai that I liked that I read some of recently called "A Story about a Cat Reincarnated in a Different World Where There are no Cats."

It is what it says on the tin. Cat is hit by car, goddess reincarnates it in the same form in a fantasy adventure world where cats don't exist. There is nothing special about this cat except it is a cute cat. It's a very dumb comic but I'll admit I got some laughs out of it.
 

TristramEvans

The Right Hand of Doom
Moderator
Joined
Apr 24, 2017
Messages
18,991
Reaction score
44,988
Isekai is technically just someone from our world to another. Like Escaflowne is an isekai (and I really like Escaflowne). D&D Cartoon would be isekai as well. Tanya the Evil is also a more recent isekai that isn't "video game" themed.

I just think there has been this crazy glut of video game themed ones recently that is driving me nuts.

That said, I did like Re:Creators which is a reverse isekai (people from fictional universes (manga/anime/light novels/video games) start appearing in modern day Japan).
Hmm, so then that goes back to the beginnings of fantasy fiction, and mythological stories of folks entering the Otherworld/Underworld/Dream-Time


I guess I've seen/read a ton of Isekei then.
 

TristramEvans

The Right Hand of Doom
Moderator
Joined
Apr 24, 2017
Messages
18,991
Reaction score
44,988
Just started watching Demon Slayer, the surprise hit anime/manga of 2020 that was the first to unseat One Piece at the top of sales and Shonen Jump's reader polls in 30 years. It's...allright so far. Not sure what the big deal is yet, but Samurai fighting Demons in Fuedal Japan is a solid enough premise I can get behind.
 

EmperorNorton

Legendary Member
Joined
Jun 3, 2018
Messages
2,708
Reaction score
6,014
Demon Slayer would be a better anime if it knew when to cut gags. There is one character where every single one of his gags is WAY too long. I did watch it all the way through though. My older son though has read all the manga and tells me I should read it. I probably will eventually.
 

Voros

Doomed Investigator
Joined
Sep 23, 2017
Messages
9,202
Reaction score
14,861
Demon Slayer would be a better anime if it knew when to cut gags. There is one character where every single one of his gags is WAY too long. I did watch it all the way through though. My older son though has read all the manga and tells me I should read it. I probably will eventually.
I read the first volume of the manga and it has far less forced humour and the clumsy characterization shorthand you see in the anime.
 

Voros

Doomed Investigator
Joined
Sep 23, 2017
Messages
9,202
Reaction score
14,861
A lot of anime tends to drive certain themes and tropes from hits into the ground for obvious commerical reasons.

That's why I find myself enjoying manga more consistently, there is more room for more personal and idiosyncratic material to get made.
 

Templum Domini

Legendary Member
Joined
Oct 6, 2017
Messages
610
Reaction score
397
A lot of anime tends to drive certain themes and tropes from hits into the ground for obvious commerical reasons.

That's why I find myself enjoying manga more consistently, there is more room for more personal and idiosyncratic material to get made.
Ever read Pandora Hearts?
 

EmperorNorton

Legendary Member
Joined
Jun 3, 2018
Messages
2,708
Reaction score
6,014
That's why I find myself enjoying manga more consistently, there is more room for more personal and idiosyncratic material to get made.
Yeah, Manga has a lot more room for creativity and shows it in what comes out.
 

Giganotosaurus

I'm a traveler of both time and space
Joined
Sep 22, 2018
Messages
1,365
Reaction score
3,383
I only really got exposed to Anime back in 2019. The guy introducing me was really into Isekai, I liked Overlord, but after watching some of "That Time I Got Turned Into A Slime" I began to notice all the tropes. Just based on reading some of the summaries, the Overlord light novels seem to be a lot more in depth and thought provoking.
On the manga side, I've read 2 mangas, Fullmetal Alchemist, and Card Captors Sakura. Both well over a decade ago now.
 

Voros

Doomed Investigator
Joined
Sep 23, 2017
Messages
9,202
Reaction score
14,861
Ever read Pandora Hearts?
Not yet but it is on my list because @EmperorNorton mentioned it sometime!

Just grabbed the first volume on my Kindle after checking out some of the artwork, a dark play on Alice in Wonderland sounds promising.

Is the anime based on it any good?
 
Last edited:

EmperorNorton

Legendary Member
Joined
Jun 3, 2018
Messages
2,708
Reaction score
6,014
It was a relatively faithful adaptation until it ran out of Manga material to adapt and so tacked on its own ending.
Also just to say, don't watch it until you've read the manga, because it does spoil a reveal that you don't get until much further into the manga.
 

Chris Brady

Legendary Member
Joined
May 3, 2019
Messages
2,178
Reaction score
1,811
The issue with Anime is that it's built on a formula which sometimes shifts, but it follows them very strictly, which is what the Japanese audience wants. This is why almost all Shonen (Boy's Action) protagonists are often orphans. Something will come along and create the formula that will form the next decade in their stories, like how Love Hina created the Harem genre's tropes that every Harem will now follow. Sword Art Online created the Isekai system.

Thankfully, they''ll mix up the surface traits, to make it seem unique, but if you know what you're looking for you can see the similarities from genre to genre.
 

TristramEvans

The Right Hand of Doom
Moderator
Joined
Apr 24, 2017
Messages
18,991
Reaction score
44,988
Not unlike American superheroes

I find if you really want to break free of the tropes in your anime viewing experience , your best bet is working backwards to the early 90's and the 80's Golden Age of anime, when there was no assumed audience and there was much more variety.

Some good palette cleansers I recommend -

Robot Carnival - essentially the anime equivalent of Disney's Fantasia...but with Robots.
Ghost in the Shell (the original film) - philosophical cyberpunk
Serial Experiments: Lain - um, also philosophical cyberpunk, but very, very different
Vampire Hunter D - Gothic Pulp, sorta Solomon Kane meets Philip K dick by way of Castlevania
The Sea Prince and the Fire Child - Romeo & Juliet if they were Mythological Gods, sorta? It's weird. Most of this stuff is weird. The best anime seems to defy descriptions.
Angel's Egg - nope, can't even come up with a description. This one borders on the anime equivalent of an experimental film, like David Lynch scripted a post apocalypse cartoon.
They Were Eleven - almost like an Agatha Christie Mystery in space with Dystopian themes, but way weirder. I'm not sure I can convey how weird these are.


Also, a more recent one which is delightfully different - The Ancient Magus Bride. Great to watch after Full Metal Alchemist, as the main "villain" is a thinkly-vieled Elric brother pastiche, if his origin was a thousand times more twisted. Unlike FMA though, this isn't an action series, but a slow, almost meditative, picaresque fantasy weaving together elements of Pastoral pre-industrial Britain and Celtic folklore with possibly the best character arc ever put to screen of any genre.
 

Chris Brady

Legendary Member
Joined
May 3, 2019
Messages
2,178
Reaction score
1,811
Not unlike American superheroes
Kinda? Not in the same way, though.

The Tropes in Superheroes is in the situations that come up. Like two heroes (Or teams) meet, there's a misunderstanding and they fight until they realize where the real villains are, and go after them. It's the characters that make them different and unique each time it happens.

In Anime it's the characters that embody the tropes. The good hearted idiot, the always hungry martial artist, the first girl (Who often ends up being the main hero's love interest. Here it's the situations that change it up.

I'd also like to point out that tropes and formulas are not bad things. It's HOW they're used that determines that.
I find if you really want to break free of the tropes in your anime viewing experience , your best bet is working backwards to the early 90's and the 80's Golden Age of anime, when there was no assumed audience and there was much more variety.
Actually, the tropes were already there, but no one in America was aware of them. But that list is a good primer of Seinen anime, which tends to be more mature and aimed for the 16+ audience, which means they can experiment a bit outside the box.
 

EmperorNorton

Legendary Member
Joined
Jun 3, 2018
Messages
2,708
Reaction score
6,014
Also, a more recent one which is delightfully different - The Ancient Magus Bride. Great to watch after Full Metal Alchemist, as the main "villain" is a thinkly-vieled Elric brother pastiche, if his origin was a thousand times more twisted. Unlike FMA though, this isn't an action series, but a slow, almost meditative, pastoral fantasy weaving together elements of Pastoral pre-industrial Britain and Celtic folklore with possibly the best character arc ever put to screen of any genre.
I've been reading the manga and enjoying it. Not sure how the anime compares though/what has changed/etc.
 

TristramEvans

The Right Hand of Doom
Moderator
Joined
Apr 24, 2017
Messages
18,991
Reaction score
44,988
Kinda? Not in the same way, though.

The Tropes in Superheroes is in the situations that come up. Like two heroes (Or teams) meet, there's a misunderstanding and they fight until they realize where the real villains are, and go after them. It's the characters that make them different and unique each time it happens.

In Anime it's the characters that embody the tropes. The good hearted idiot, the always hungry martial artist, the first girl (Who often ends up being the main hero's love interest. Here it's the situations that change it up.
The Cape, the Cowl, the Brick, the Archer, the Amazon, the Super Scientist, etc. Character archetypes in comics abound. I don't think I could even list all the Superman etsy's before running out of text space alloted to one post.


Actually, the tropes were already there
Some were being created, but on the whole there's a much bigger variety in anime premises and storylines of the 80s/early 90s, without the reliance on established tropes outside out of a few very specific genres. I find the most common tropes of modern anime are relatively recent, originating in the early aughts, especially now that Isekei and Shonen have pretty much taken over the landscape.
 

EmperorNorton

Legendary Member
Joined
Jun 3, 2018
Messages
2,708
Reaction score
6,014
Also, another more recent manga that I think is really interesting (it has an anime but again, I haven't watched it so I can't compare) is Children of the Whales.

(I've been reading a lot of manga/western comics recently because I tend to do it before I go to sleep, and if my wife has gone to bed before me I can't watch anime in bed :tongue:)
 

EmperorNorton

Legendary Member
Joined
Jun 3, 2018
Messages
2,708
Reaction score
6,014
Oh, another Anime/Manga that I really enjoyed was Wotakoi. It's a comedy/romance manga about 4 adult otaku in Japan who have functioning adult jobs and their relationships and how they interact with the world. One of the things I like about it is that it kind of ditches a lot of the anime romcom bullshit because the characters are actually adults. Like they still have some emotional issues at times, but it is dealt with in a much less "teen" way.

It's nice just to see geeky adults being geeky with each other and stuff. And it's cute. (With this one I can suggest the anime, it's just a solid adaptation of the first bits of the manga).
 

Chris Brady

Legendary Member
Joined
May 3, 2019
Messages
2,178
Reaction score
1,811
The Cape, the Cowl, the Brick, the Archer, the Amazon, the Super Scientist, etc. Character archetypes in comics abound. I don't think I could even list all the Superman etsy's before running out of text space alloted to one post.
Without getting too deep into it, the similar archetypes exist in Anime. The weapon master (which is broader version of the Archer), the Super Scientist shows up everywhere, although in Anime they tended to be support types. The Amazon was VERY big in late 80's to 90's anime, with Priss Asagiri of Bubblegum Crisis and Deunan Knute of Appleseed being notable ones. Braireos Hecatonchire is the Brick, but those tend to show up a lot in fighting anime...

The Cowl is represented by all the Ninja. The Cape is the only who is uniquely Western.

Again, there are a lot of parallels in almost all media. It's the 'direction' they focus on that makes the telling uniquely theirs.

Some were being created, but on the whole there's a much bigger variety in anime premises and storylines of the 80s/early 90s, without the reliance on established tropes outside out of a few very specific genres. I find the most common tropes of modern anime are relatively recent, originating in the early aughts, especially now that Isekei and Shonen have pretty much taken over the landscape.
As someone who watched a lot of anime, I'd disagree with the variety in terms of premise/storyline, it was more in the 'expression' if I'm using the word right. If you break it down, there were a lot that had similar plots, but how they played out was very strikingly different.

Still, this is a pointless divergence that I apologize for even starting.

At the end of the day, I happen to like both mediums a lot.
 
Best Selling RPGs - Available Now @ DriveThruRPG.com
Top