Any tales of GOOD experiences with meta-plot?

[E-Rocker]

I've read plenty of threads about how awful various gamelines' meta-plots have been. So I'm just curious if any of you had positive experiences playing through a meta-plot?

 

[AsenRG]

I've read plenty of threads about how awful various gamelines' meta-plots have been. So I'm just curious if any of you had positive experiences playing through a meta-plot?

I suspect that yes, but I'm not sure. I never read those sections of Eclipse Phase 1e, so no idea if it has meta-plot or whether our GM was following it.

 

[A Fiery Flying Roll]

It depends on if you consider "historical events" to be IRL metaplot or not. But my clockwork and chivalry game roughly followed history.

 

[Dr Jack]

It depends on if you consider "historical events" to be IRL metaplot or not. But my clockwork and chivalry game roughly followed history.

I consider the defining feature of metaplot to be that it is not revealed to DMs beforehand. It's when the game company releases an overarching plot for their setting that you don't know about when you start running your campaign in the setting, it just comes out bit-by-bit in supplements or whatever.

Otherwise it's just "plot".

So, for me, historical events are just plot. I guess if you started your campaign in the present day then current events could become metaplot. I can see many campaigns being derailed by the Covid Metaplot of 2020.

 

[BedrockBrendan]

I've read plenty of threads about how awful various gamelines' meta-plots have been. So I'm just curious if any of you had positive experiences playing through a meta-plot?

I had some fun with some of the Hyskosa Hexad modules in Ravenloft. And a lot of my players found the changes to the setting from the grand conjunction interesting at the time (eventually I came to prefer the previous arrangement of the core, but that is mostly due to like things like G'henna and feeling like Markovia functioned fine as part of the core rather than an island (it doesn't need to be exactly like the Island of Doctor Moreau to work).

For those who don't know, this is the complete Hexad. It was a prophecy about the grand conjunction of Ravenloft but Azlin caused them to happen out of order which just resulted in significant change to the setting (quote taken from Mistopedia version):

(introduction)

The night of evil shall descend on the land.
When this hexad of signs is near at hand

(First Sign)

In the house of Daegon the sorcerer born,
Though life, unlife, unliving shall scorn.

(Second Sign)

The lifeless child of stern mother found
Heralds a time, night of evil unbound

(Third Sign)

Seventh time the son of suns doth rise
To send the knave to an eternity of cries.

(Fourth Sign)

The light of the sky shining over the dead
Shall gutter and fail, turning all to red

(Fifth Sign)

Inajira will make his fortunes reverse
Dooming all to live with the dreaded curse

(Sixth Sign)

The bodiless shall journey to the time before
Where happiness to hate creates land and lore.

Here are the individual signs for each hexad and their respective modules (also taken from Mistopedia):

"In the house of Daegon the sorcerer born, Though life, unlife, unliving shall scorn."

The first verse of Hyskosa's Hexad, which describes the second sign to herald the coming of the Grand Conjunction, as foreseen by the Dukkar, Hyskosa.

In Feast of Goblyns, the Crown of Souls is brought into the Mists, creating the domain of Daglan, where Daglan Daegon is briefly returned to unlife.

"The lifeless child of stern mother found. Heralds a time, night of evil unbound."

The second verse of Hyskosa's Hexad, which describes the second sign to herald the coming of the Grand Conjunction, as foreseen by the Dukkar, Hyskosa.

In Ship of Horror, Madeline Stern dies giving birth to Morvan. Note that Night of the Walking Dead erroneously says that this verse refers to the child ghost of "Charlotte Stern," but in Ship of Horror, the only child ghost is Charlotte Reisland. Of course this means that it's actually the "stern mother" who is lifeless and not her "child," so the verse as written doesn't quite make sense.

"Seventh time the son of suns doth rise, To send the knave to an eternity of cries."

The third verse of Hyskosa's Hexad, which describes the second sign to herald the coming of the Grand Conjunction, as foreseen by the Dukkar, Hyskosa.

Touch of Death details the seventh rising of Anhktepot, during which "the knave" Senmet tried to usurp his power.

"The light of the sky shining over the dead, Shall gutter and fail, turning all to red."

The fourth verse of Hyskosa's Hexad, which describes the second sign to herald the coming of the Grand Conjunction, as foreseen by the Dukkar, Hyskosa.

During the climax of Night of the Walking Dead, a red-tinged lunar eclipse occurs over Marais d'Tarascon's graveyard in Souragne.

"Inajira will make his fortunes reverse, Dooming all to live with the dreaded curse."

The fifth verse of Hyskosa's Hexad, which describes the second sign to herald the coming of the Grand Conjunction, as foreseen by the Dukkar, Hyskosa.

In Roots of Evil, Strahd's pact with Inajira is made undone.

"The bodiless shall journey to the time before, Where happiness to hate creates land and lore."

The sixth verse of Hyskosa's Hexad, which describes the second sign to herald the coming of the Grand Conjunction, as foreseen by the Dukkar, Hyskosa.

In From the Shadows, Azalin sends the decapitated PCs back in time to the Wedding of Sergei and Tatyana to change the history of Barovia.

 

[soltakss]

Meta-plot is fine.

As a GM, for Glorantha, I have used what comes out as Meta-Plot and have incorporated it into my campaigns.

So, when Dorastor Land of Doom came out, I incorporated the elements that fitted well into the campaign and downplayed the others. When King of Sartar came out, I used elements from the Hero Wars in my ongoing campaign. It worked pretty well.

 

[AsenRG]

I consider the defining feature of metaplot to be that it is not revealed to DMs beforehand. It's when the game company releases an overarching plot for their setting that you don't know about when you start running your campaign in the setting, it just comes out bit-by-bit in supplements or whatever.

...then I suspect I've never experienced it. I'm of the "if the Referee doesn't know it, it didn't happen" school!

 

[FreeGamer]

I read up on a bunch of White Wolf metaplot stuff on a wiki once. It was fun enough, and a heck of a lot faster and cheaper than buying books I probably won't even open and therefore getting all my metaplot details secondhand anyway like in the 90s and 00s. That was an okay time. Better than getting stuck on tvtropes, but not as fun as my TMNT and Power Ranger wiki-crawl/comic-read combo nights.

 

[MoonHunter]

Yes, I have had meta plots for most of my chronicles. They have worked pretty well, as they give the world background movement... and a feel that the world is in motion without the PCs. Historical meta plots have worked pretty well. White Wolf metaplots I have liked and used, to a degree. There have been some alterations, but still they worked.

 

[AsenRG]

Yes, I have had meta plots for most of my chronicles. They have worked pretty well, as they give the world background movement... and a feel that the world is in motion without the PCs. Historical meta plots have worked pretty well. White Wolf metaplots I have liked and used, to a degree. There have been some alterations, but still they worked.

...you've had plots where you yourself didn't know what was in the making?

 

[MoonHunter]

...you've had plots where you yourself didn't know what was in the making?

I have only used meta plots where I knew the beginning, middle, and most of the ending.

I do not endorse, yay I disclaim, various companies who string the meta plot out over a dozen books over a number of years (and tweak and change it towards the end). They are foul beings and should be banished from the sphere and realm as not to contaminate The Good People of the sphere.

 

[AppleJax]

Never.*

I find metaplots annoying because it’s just the writers stroking their egos. It’s obvious that the writers really want to write novels or comics but settle for wasting gamers’ time. It doesn’t help that many gamers are posers who prefer reading this garbage over actually playing.

I want material that is actually useful for playing or running adventures. Not some wannabe’s poor attempt at prose fiction. Unless lore is actually relevant to gameplay, then it’s nothing more that ego-stroking recitation of irrelevant factoids. This goes not just for ongoing metaplot, which is the nadir of this trend, but all backstory and any other worldbuilding.

I say this as a worldbuilder myself. I don’t want to waste my own time nor other people’s time either.

*The one exception was in Chaosium’s Nephilim RPG. It had a past lives mechanic where your PC could have been historical figures like Queen Nefertiti, Bloody Mary, Benjamin Franklin, Rosa Parks, etc. So the backstory is personally relevant to the PC and may come back to haunt them.

But the metaplot in the original French version has been garbage. It’s been going strong since 1992 (the US version was canceled in 1998). The more material I translate, the more repulsed I become.

It’s an inconsistent mess of multiple writers with different ideas of where to take the setting clashing repeatedly. For example, 5e outright erased two of the three major splats introduced in 3e, erased the freeform magic mechanic from 3e/4e, and made the alchemy mechanic ridiculously overly complicated.

I’m sick of that stupid shit. As far as I’m concerned, 3e was the peak of the game’s design history. It wasn’t perfect, but every subsequent edition has either been a pointless retread or actively reversed progress. The metaplot developments are especially stupid, because 90% of the setting’s key events now occur from 1990 to 2020 because that’s when the books were released.

White Wolf’s metaplot? That’s somehow even worse.

 

[CRKrueger]

Shadowrun and Cyberpunk 2020 meta plot adventures have been used to good effect.

In a game genre where the PCs have to live in the shadows while the Corps and Govt’s make moves and create opportunities for runners, it would seem weird for game designers to not provide some meta plot.

 

[TristramEvans]

I had a really good gaming experience first time running through Tribe 8's big adventure cycle.

 

[T. Foster]

I used metaplot events (mostly as background color but occasionally directly on-stage) in my RQ Glorantha campaign in the 90s to mostly pretty good effect. The Cradle scenario from the Pavis set is a total linear railroad but it still seemed awesome to the players going through it and knowing that they were part of history in the making, that a lot of stuff that had been sort of simmering in the background for a couple years was coming together and paying off.

I also liked the initial stages of the MegaTraveller Rebellion storyline until it became really obvious about 2 years in that they’d painted themselves into a corner with it and had no idea where to go (and the less said about where they ultimately ended up going the better!).

 

[thebigh]

This is why I prefer my own home-brew scenarios.

 

[TJS]

I played in a Heavy Gear campaign where we played a whole lot of different characters jumping around to different parts of the world as the metaplot unfolded.

Sort of a slice of life game. It ended though because I guess the GM lost interest.

 

[TJS]

Ultimately there's not actually any reason why a metaplot can't be used to good effect.

At it's root it's just the same as any other setting except instead of telling you only about what's around spatially, you also get what's happening temporally.

The problems are all about implementation - parsed out too slowly over multiple books so the GM can't know what's coming next, NPCs doing everything, and too much emphasis on the story.

 

[lategamer]

In my long running ArsM campaign (which was during the Infernal part of White Wolfs ownership of the game), we had a metaplot of the unhallowed Shard of Hell. The essential idea was that the Mages wanted it and feared it but the more they searched, the further it became. But one found it. It was given to him. To use it he had to sacrifice the right hands of 10 friends. He got to 9 and then changed his mind.

 

[CT_Phipps]

I strongly support metaplot and think that any campaign world that doesn't have it basically dead.

I mean, some metaplot is absolute SHIT.

But that's not a statement of metaplot IN GENERAL.

Metaplot is generally good because it provides a steady stream of world-events to happen around players and their characters that make the world seem living as well as effective. Imagine your entire life and all of the events happening around it: for me it goes The Cold War, Fall of the Soviet Union, War on Terror, Information Age, and Covid-19 just as things that I had no effect on but showed the world evolving around me. Just by having metaplot access, you have the benefit of being able to share the world changing around your characters and how you can use it.

Metaplot I've used

1. Legend of the Five Rings: Fu Leng's rise to power, the Scorpions involvement, and the death of the Emperor before its replacement. It was a classic Dark Lord story and very Lord of the Rings but with a Japanese flavor. I never got to do a sequel with the Rise of the Steel Crysanthium but I felt that would have been awesome.

2. War of the Lance: The original Metaplot is one that the player characters are surrounded by and may be heavily involved in. A bunch of linked together adventures about the last hope of the world being the discovery of the Dragonlances and revealing the Metallic dragons eggs were warped into Draconians.

3. Gehenna: The Vampire: The Masquerade metaplot had its ups and downs but it did a very good job of making the players heavily involved once the Transylvania Chronicles came out. Either way, things like the Sabbat invasion of the East Coast, reconquest of New York, and Fall of the Anarch Free States all had places at my game.

4. Time of Troubles: The Time of Troubles brought Forgotten Realms from 1st to 2nd edition and the adventures were shit. Except they became AWESOME if you made one tiny adventure change: replace Midnight and Kelemvor with the PCs. Yes, the player characters get to ascend to be the new gods of Magic and Death if you have them play this out. My players loved it.

5. Dark Sun: I'm kind of iffy about this one as nothing really undervalues a post-apocalypse Mad Max hellhole than 2/3rds of the villains being killed off in a book series but the fall of the Sorcerer King was very fun to play out.

Metaplot I've hated

1. Dragonlance Fifth Age: The Fifth Age more or less removed everything that was distinctive about Dragonlance: the Gods of Light versus Dark, the Towers of High Sorcery, and made a bunch of kaiju-sized dragons. God, the Age of Mortals sucked.

2. Spellplague: The transformation of the Forgotten Realms into...whatever the hell 4th Edition was...pretty much is universally agreed to be the worst thing ever to Dungeons and Dragons.

3. Fifth Edition's Sabbat: If you liked the Sabbat, this is like getting your child back from a kidnapping and they've been brainwashed into the most stereotypical mindless orcs imaginable.

4. Faction War: Someone hated Planescape. So they removed everything Planescape about it. Oddly, Vecna would have been a better reason for it as at least he's not a complete nonentity like Factol Darkwood.

 

[A Fiery Flying Roll]

I think there's also a difference between metaplot that affects a small area of the gameworld and that which has ramifications for everything.

To use Vampire as an example, Baba Yaga dying in isolation *shrug*. That only affects a tiny number of Storytellers using Baba Yaga in their campaign and one assumes they'll just ignore it.

Stuff like "The Gangrel leave the Camarilla" is a lot more overarching and makes it highly likely that campaigns will clash with canon, especially without warning.

And "Gehenna happens" is going to throw everyone upside down. If you're going to do that kind of thing I'd rather you released the campaign in full so people can actually try and follow it rather than dealing with designer fiat.

 

[TristramEvans]

Metaplots are generally optional, so the only time I really hate them is when crucial information about the setting is held from the GM rather than just the players.

 

[lategamer]

Metaplots are generally optional, so the only time I really hate them is when crucial information about the setting is held from the GM rather than just the players.

This.

The most irritating thing about Twilight 2000 is “Operation Reset”. We hear about it but zero details.

Worse - what little I do know is underwhelming. But maybe that’s genre appropriate.

I felt the same about Living Steel. Loved the setting but felt there was a heap of info missing about Spectrals, Dragoncrests, who the hell the Seven Sword Worlds were.

 

[Sharrow]

The meta-plot of Traveller: The New Era worked pretty well for me, aside from that minor problem of it not being finished up because GDW went out of business. Thoughtless of them, really.

 

[S'mon]

Metaplot in the sense of stuff happening in-world that is not directly part of the PCs' own story is good for a living world. Big stuff like wars & pandemics can give rise to events that affect the PCs. I'm not in favour of 1990s style published metaplot though, I'd much rather do my own, probably with a random element. I'm running Forgotten Realms starting in 1358, currently moving into 1362. I use some of the published/official timeline, but I make a lot of changes too. I'd probably do that even in a modern day campaign, eg I liked how the MCU timeline deviates noticeably from the real world one.

 

[AsenRG]

I have only used meta plots where I knew the beginning, middle, and most of the ending.

I do not endorse, yay I disclaim, various companies who string the meta plot out over a dozen books over a number of years (and tweak and change it towards the end). They are foul beings and should be banished from the sphere and realm as not to contaminate The Good People of the sphere.

Yes, but that is how at least D Dr Jack is using it, and possibly@E-Rocker (the OP) as well. In fact, I am using it the same way as well.

CRKrueger S S'mon CT_Phipps TJS what you're calling meta-plot, I'd call just "GM-lead plot".

 

[AsenRG]

The meta-plot of Traveller: The New Era worked pretty well for me, aside from that minor problem of it not being finished up because GDW went out of business. Thoughtless of them, really.

I totally agree, they should have done everything to prevent it!

 

[Skywalker]

I had a really good gaming experience first time running through Tribe 8's big adventure cycle.

Yeah, early Tribe 8 metaplot was fantastic and the adventures were a lot of fun to play through.

 

[TJS]

Yes, but that is how at least D Dr Jack is using it, and possibly@E-Rocker (the OP) as well. In fact, I am using it the same way as well.

CRKrueger S S'mon CT_Phipps TJS what you're calling meta-plot, I'd call just "GM-lead plot".

Well not really. If I run a game set in Constantinople in 1452 then the Turks are going to invade (well unless the PCs kill Mehmet first or something like that).

This is not too different from buying the next Lo5r book and finding out the Scorpion just staged a coup in Rokugan. The difference is that as GM I know that's going to happen in advance so I can take it into consideration when I decide to start a campaign in 1452 Constantinople.

It's just that the way it's normally done is that you're busy doing stuff in Constantinople and then the Merchant's handbook get's released which you think will come in handy and then you open it up and discover that "by the way the Turks invaded and the city is now ruled by a Sultan".

 

[CRKrueger]

Yes, but that is how at least D Dr Jack is using it, and possibly@E-Rocker (the OP) as well. In fact, I am using it the same way as well.

CRKrueger S S'mon CT_Phipps TJS what you're calling meta-plot, I'd call just "GM-lead plot".

Well in the case of Shadowrun and Cyberpunk those were Publisher-made plots that unfolded over time through supplements. Sure, I chose to use them (or change them), but they were still “Official” plot lines.

 

[AsenRG]

Well not really. If I run a game set in Constantinople in 1452 then the Turks are going to invade (well unless the PCs kill Mehmet first or something like that).

This is not to different from buying the next Lo5r book and finding out the Scorpion just staged a coup in Rokugan. The difference is that as GM I know that's going to happen in advance so I can take it into consideration when I decide to start a campaign in 1452 Constantinople.

It's just that the way it's normally done is that you're busy doing stuff in Constantinople and then the Merchant's handbook get's released which you think will come in handy and then you open it up and discover that "by the way the Turks invaded and the city is now ruled by a Sultan".

And I can see this working well or not.
If your PCs have been successful at shoring up the city defenses, providing food and water and eradicating potential collaborators...no, the Turks might have tried to invade, but it didn't happen in my campaign.
If the PCs have been dealing with cults, such events in a new book are 1) a way to get you on the supplement thread mill and 2) analogous to a random event (and might well be), except it's not you who rolled it!

Well in the case of Shadowrun and Cyberpunk those were Publisher-made plots that unfolded over time through supplements. Sure, I chose to use them (or change them), but they were still “Official” plot lines.

So you didn't know in advance that they would happen? In that case, yeah, that's metaplot, I take my previous assessment back!

 

[VisionStorm]

I consider the defining feature of metaplot to be that it is not revealed to DMs beforehand. It's when the game company releases an overarching plot for their setting that you don't know about when you start running your campaign in the setting, it just comes out bit-by-bit in supplements or whatever.

Otherwise it's just "plot".

So, for me, historical events are just plot. I guess if you started your campaign in the present day then current events could become metaplot. I can see many campaigns being derailed by the Covid Metaplot of 2020.

That's not exactly what metaplot is, but it's part of why it sucks, though, not the sole reason for it. Metaplot is more like an overarching narrative that affects the whole setting and takes it to a significantly different direction, that's on top of that usually unknown to the GM until the game company publishes the setting's whole main novel series or campaign supplements. So that A) you have to wait to eventually (maybe...unless the line gets discontinued before that) buy extra stuff, and B) the events revealed in that extra stuff may mess with what you had planned for your own campaign, or even the implicit point of playing in that setting to begin with.

One example of this is the Dark Sun setting, where the metaplot in the novels have the heroes (and others) eventually kill off half the Sorcerer Kings and the world's only Dragon (YAY!) so that the PCs can't do it themselves (as they should be able to). The only good thing about that particular metaplot (and more to the thread's topic) is the death of King Kalak by the end of the first novel, which I've often used as the starting point for most Dark Sun campaigns I've started by having slave PCs break free during the turmoil caused by Kalak's death and the public attack that led to it. And also gives us one free city to use as a base of operations and rallying location for freed slaves. The rest of the metaplot just makes the setting worse eventually.

 

[lategamer]

Arguably playing in Middle Earth is being secondary to a massive metaplot.

Your ranger isn't killing Sauron. Your hobbit isn't stealing the Arkenstone. There's a bigger plot with bigger heroes. The world is changing under your feet.

 

[TristramEvans]

Arguably playing in Middle Earth is being secondary to a massive metaplot.

Your ranger isn't killing Sauron. Your hobbit isn't stealing the Arkenstone. There's a bigger plot with bigger heroes. The world is changing under your feet.

That's why I set my Middle Earth games in the time of Tolkien's unfinished sequel, The Return of the Shadow

 

[CT_Phipps]

Yes, but that is how at least D Dr Jack is using it, and possibly@E-Rocker (the OP) as well. In fact, I am using it the same way as well.

CRKrueger S S'mon CT_Phipps TJS what you're calling meta-plot, I'd call just "GM-lead plot".

I'm not sure what a GM lead plot vs. metaplot is then.

But yes, the primary appeal of metaplot is the fact it continues moving the setting along and give players larger events to play off of. I also don't necessarily think that every player particularly minds it and it's often something that plenty of people want to involve themselves. If you're playing Star Wars or Lord of the Rings, I think the vast majority of players would HATE playing in an alternate timeline. They don't want to kick over the gameboard necessarily because they're not the stars of the GALAXY.

Indeed, most of my players prefer much smaller scale stories.

 

[TristramEvans]

"Metaplot" as I use the term, is ongoing setting events revealed by the publisher over the course of a game's supplements and editions, including the reveal of "setting secrets". It is the game company's story of the world, that the GM is not a party to or informed about except as they keep up with the publishing schedule of the gameline.

 

[CT_Phipps]

"Metaplot" as I use the term, is ongoing setting events revealed by the publisher over the course of a game's supplements and editions, including the reveal of "setting secrets". It is the game company's story of the world, that the GM is not a party to or informed about except as they keep up with the publishing schedule of the gameline.

Eh, for me, isn't that a necessity of a "living" setting? A setting that doesn't have continuing events is dead. Its frozen in time and can never really move beyond the existing snapshot of one moment in the campaign's time.

 

[TristramEvans]

Eh, for me, isn't that a necessity of a "living" setting? A setting that doesn't have continuing events is dead. Its frozen in time and can never really move beyond the existing snapshot of one moment in the campaign's time.

well, I guess what you describe as a "living setting" I would describe as "a railroad for GMs"

 

[Dr Jack]

That's not exactly what metaplot is

I'm confused. I'm not seeing anything in your answer that disagrees with me?

 

[CT_Phipps]

well, I guess what you describe as a "living setting" I would describe as "a railroad for GMs"

I mean, the books exist to provide me ideas. If they're not providing me ideas then I don't need to buy them. Mind you, at 42, I'm less interested in following canon where I don't have to at 22.

But following canon can be quite enjoyable if the players are invested.

God, I remember when I played DC Adventures and suddenly ALL OF THE PLAYERS wanted every single obscure story to be canon from the comics. I had to do massive research to get THEIR references.