Avatar Legends: Avatar the Last Airbender RPG - USD1m in 1 day

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I'm five years out of fashion, but I would of preferred this done with Fate.
PbtA doesn't float the boat for me, and usually if I see a setting in Savage Worlds or PbtA, I tend to think I can just convert it into Fate.

I really enjoyed The Last Airbender series, so if I do end up backing this it will be purely on grounds of the IP and nothing else. I think the book itself will look gorgeous, but not sure if I need to invest in another game line at the moment, even if it's just the core book.

I think this IP is gold; it's now spanning two generations.
It's a great property to get into, it is a wonder that Wizards Of The Coast or Modiphius didn't get to it first!

I wish Magpie Games all the best :thumbsup:
 
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Mankcam said:
I'm five years out of fashion, but I would of preferred this done with Fate.

PbtA doesn't float the boat for me, and usually if I see a setting in Savage Worlds or PbtA, I tend to think I can just convert it into Fate.

I really enjoyed The Last Airbender series, so if I do end up backing this it will be purely on grounds of the IP and nothing else. I think the book itself will look gorgeous.

But not sure if I need to invest in another game line at the moment, even if it's just the core book.

However I wish Magpie Games all the best, and yeah I think this IP is gold, it's now spanning two generations.

It's a great property to get into, it is a wonder that Wizards Of The Coast or Modiphius didn't get to it first!
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Fate? Die in a tire fire.
 
As much as I love my BRP, especially Mythras, I think this Avatar game would run a bit better with something lighter and pulpier.

PbtA is a fair choice, but it's just not my thing. Perhaps it could be ok with the right setting, so maybe this is it.
Same goes for Savage Worlds; it was a game for me for a while, but I eventually just went off it.
Maybe Everywhen would be a good fit for this perhaps. It's as lite as PbtA, but more straight-forward in some ways.
All of these are certainly pulpy enough to capture the feel of the original animated series.

Actually 2D20 would not be too bad if it's a lite version of the mechanics, not up the clunky end of the 2D20 game range. The Momentum mechanic could work pretty well, it may need to have a better name to evoke the setting. Not sure if the Doom mechanic needs to be a thing (I don't really like that in 2D20 system anyway).

I'm glad in some ways that Modiphius didn't get it, as it would just be yet another major IP in their itinerary.
If WotC got it and used D&D 5E then it would never be pushed enough to be more prominent than their core D&D 5E books.
So I'm happy a smaller company like Magpie Games have it.
I would also be happy if Free League had acquired it, that may have worked equally well.

But in any case, the IP and production standards will sell this game, not the system :thumbsup:



(PS: I think I'll flag it with the 'Remind Me' button, to see how I feel about possibly throwing money at this in a few weeks time)
 
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Mankcam said:
As much as I love my BRP, especially Mythras, I think this Avatar game would run a bit better with something lighter and pulpier.
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Tommy Brownell said:
It clearly needed to be Savaged.
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You're all clearly wrong, every game based on an existing franchise needs to be a GURPS 3E book.

Well, unless you want further supplements.

I'm really surprised it took this long. Probably there's a long hidden history of other companies trying to vie for the prize.
 
The IP is a huge part of the draw here, for sure. You have a pretty broad age demo among the fanbase…as someone mentioned there are two generations of fans….and it’s pretty global.

And while I imagine there are some folks who will pick it up simply because it’s PbtA and they want to see another take on that system, more importantly for what I expect is the overwhelmingly vast majority of backers, the fact that the game is PbtA is simply not an obstacle.

For most folks, they’re probably just thinking “oh cool an RPG of Avatar, I’d like to try that” without any hint of ideology. Lunatic bastards.
 
It’s still going at a decent pace. It’s reached $3.5m and is doing over $500k a day.

I can’t shake off the feeling that it’s going to hit close to $10m by the end. I am not sure what that means but fuck.
 
Honestly, though, I don’t think Superheroes and Anime genres are really served by a traditional system. There’s FASERIP and MEGS, but you could argue that even they don’t do a great “Superman & Batman” or “Mary Jane v. Galactus” from a simulation standpoint.

More than novels or even movies, comics and anime are a highly narrative art form and ppossibly are served best by a game that views RPGs that way. In a comic or anime universe, genre and needs of plot trump all, with Protagonism being front and center.

I’m a diehard Mythras fan, and I wouldn’t even attempt Avatar with the system. IMO, it’s the wrong tool for the job. Maybe TDM can change my mind with the superheroes stuff coming down the pipeline, but not now.

For something like Avatar, you could certainly argue that a game that laserlocks on genre, theme, tropes, etc and enforces them through mechanics would be the best for the job. But for that to be true, you’d have to care about genre, themes, and tropes.

You have the game done in 5e, it would be making even more money than it is now. That’s obvious. As 5e is practically a superheroes game anyway, it could do a decent job, as could Savage Worlds.

Put a gun to my head and tell me to pick a system, I’d probably pick FASERIP, because I wouldn’t care about genre, theme or tropes, because I wouldn’t be running an anime tv show, I’d be attempting to emulate the world of the Avatar and model the powers and abilities as presented in the show and books while shedding any narrative logic.

For that, FASERIP would do a far better job.
 
Skywalker said:
It’s still going at a decent pace. It’s reached $3.5m and is doing over $500k a day.

I can’t shake off the feeling that it’s going to hit close to $10m by the end. I am not sure what that means but fuck.
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The surprise to me here is that it is so outdistancing the TOR KS. I'm wondering why that is? I know the cartoon is popular but it isn't LotR popular.

I suspect when FL launch AiME 2e that will do some serious numbers, perhaps more competitive with Airbender because of the massive popularity of 5e.
 
JamesV said:
It sounds contradictory, but there is such a thing as quality American cheese, and its easy melting makes a great base for nachos on the fly.
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Now THAT sounds intriguing... any specific brands:shock:?

CRKrueger said:
But no one is talking about the most important thing of all...

Who is going on the front of your Special Collector’s Hardcover, Aang or Korra?
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Now you're talking Serious Business:devil:!
Skywalker said:
Has there been any IP licenced RPG that has blown this big on KS before now? TOR2e had LotR supported by a well regarded published and prior edition and it still pales to what we see here.
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Conan? John Carter?

"This big", no, but such successes are usually due to a perfect storm of events.


Stan said:
Empirically, I'd have to agree, even though I know nothing about Magpie and don't know much about the PBTA market.

For comparison, ToR 2e took in 17,070,638 SEK for its kickstarter, which is ~$2,050,000. This kickstarter will probably top out around $5,000,000. Avatar is huge but it would be hard to argue that it's bigger than LoTR. It's hard to compare a 2nd edition to a brand new game but this looks like a perfect storm of factors.
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Yes, but the overlap of Avatar fans with "people who use KS" and "people who are or might be looking to get into RPGs, say because of YouTube streamers" is much bigger than the overlap with LotR fans, Conan fans, and so on...:thumbsup:.

Voros said:
The surprise to me here is that it is so outdistancing the TOR KS. I'm wondering why that is? I know the cartoon is popular but it isn't LotR popular.

I suspect when FL launch AiME 2e that will do some serious numbers, perhaps more competitive with Airbender because of the massive popularity of 5e.
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See my previous note to Stan.

Unlikely, IMO, but time would tell.
 
You see a lot of people online complain that 5e and D&D fans are only interested in playing 5e and/or D&D but I've got to think that a lot of the people backing this are familiar with 5e.

I also would suspect that this has a much larger young audience than most other rpgs and parents backing the game to play with their kids, as well as adult fans of the cartoon.
 
Voros said:
You see a lot of people online complain that 5e and D&D fans are only interested in playing 5e and/or D&D but I've got to think that a lot of the people backing this are familiar with 5e.
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Most RPGers are familiar with 5e, so that doesn't say much. I am as well, didn't become a fan:thumbsup:.
We're talking about 5e/D&D fans, though. For some of them it is the only game that they'd play. Of course, they would be unlikely to back that.

And yes, odds are good that every backer who isn't a first-time RPGer would be familiar with 5e.

Voros said:
I also would suspect that this has a much larger young audience than most other rpgs and parents backing the game to play with their kids, as well as adult fans of the cartoon.
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Quite likely!


Also, is there a stretch goal saying "A Savage Worlds edition":shade:?
 
Voros said:
The surprise to me here is that it is so outdistancing the TOR KS. I'm wondering why that is? I know the cartoon is popular but it isn't LotR popular.

I suspect when FL launch AiME 2e that will do some serious numbers, perhaps more competitive with Airbender because of the massive popularity of 5e.
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I don’t think what we seeing is coming from the success or popularity of an RPG system. Even 5e alone wouldn’t have the pulling power we are seeing here IMO.

I think it’s a combination of an IP that works particularly well with RPGing, has had long lived popularity at relevant times in an audience that is familiar with both RPG streaming and KS, and is in the hands of a RPG publisher that has honed its skills on presenting a product that appeals beyond RPGers to that entire pool of people.

AsenRG said:
Conan? John Carter?

"This big", no, but such successes are usually due to a perfect storm of events.
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At USD600k for a line of 20+ books, Conan is not even in the same league as what we are seeing here. The closest we have seen is The One Ring, but that just shows the contrast with what we are seeing here. It really seems like a particular combination of factors.
 
Skywalker said:
At USD600k for a line of 20+ books, Conan is not even in the same league. The closest we have seen is The One Ring, but that just shows the contrast with what we are seeing here.
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It is - it's in the "bigger than 99,999999%* of RPG KS campaigns":shade:. And this one looks set to become THE BIGGEST RPG KS campaign ever. Of course anything else is going to be smaller, if you compare it with the 320kgs gorilla!

Also, see my reply to Stan Stan in the previous post:
"Yes, but the overlap of Avatar fans with "people who use KS" and "people who are or might be looking to get into RPGs, say because of YouTube streamers" is much bigger than the overlap with LotR fans, Conan fans, and so on...:thumbsup:."
Bottom line: the fans of some IPs are much more likely to try RPGs and/or to hear about a KS campaign.

*A number I obtained via the time-honoured "ex recto" method, and is meant to just show how few RPG KS get over 100 000USD.
 
The fact that this is so massively successful and not 5e hopefully reinforces for rpg designers that not all IPs need to be adapted to 5e.

I'm also sure the huge success of this KS is pissing off some corners of the net for some goofball reasons.
 
AsenRG said:
Also, see my reply to Stan Stan in the previous post:
"Yes, but the overlap of Avatar fans with "people who use KS" and "people who are or might be looking to get into RPGs, say because of YouTube streamers" is much bigger than the overlap with LotR fans, Conan fans, and so on...:thumbsup:."
Bottom line: the fans of some IPs are much more likely to try RPGs and/or to hear about a KS campaign.
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I agree. Though I wouldn’t underestimate the skill and experience Magpie has brought to this to present a product that taps into a greater segment of those fans than other publishers may have done. I think that may be a particularly important factor here when comparing to the likes of attempts with other IPs.
 
Voros said:
The fact that this is so massively successful and not 5e hopefully reinforces for rpg designers that not all IPs need to be adapted to 5e.
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It’s all about reach. 5e is good at reaching the most RPGers. But if you want to go bigger, then it’s not going to be as influential.

I expect we are going to see a lot of analysis of these factors after this KS as publishers try and replicate the success.
 
Skywalker said:
It’s all about reach. 5e is good at reaching the most RPGers. But if you want to go bigger, then it’s not going to be as influential.
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Yeah and to be fair most of the respected rpg publishers these days seem comfortable using their own or lesser known ruleset (Conan, Dr. Who, Alien). That limits their reach but leads to better quality games I think.
 
Voros said:
The surprise to me here is that it is so outdistancing the TOR KS. I'm wondering why that is? I know the cartoon is popular but it isn't LotR popular.

I suspect when FL launch AiME 2e that will do some serious numbers, perhaps more competitive with Airbender because of the massive popularity of 5e.
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Well, when you talk about LotR, it’s really the movies that generated the Geek Lifestyle Swag and the Kickstarter wasn’t offering any Weta memorabilia. The Tolkien novel fanatic spends hundreds of dollars on well-made book releases or spends their time in debates with the Tolkien Society or debated with academics on the old angsax mailing list.

This KS has a ton of swag, and Avatar is anime, and no one goes psycho for swag and collectibles like anime fans. Also, having more of a younger age range than ME, Avatar has kept the IP alive with toys, novels, etc that are a lot more digestible than the Silmarillion or the volumes of History of Middle Earth. There aren’t any Middle Earth sippy cups. :grin:

Avatar’s a household media brand managed by a megacorp that hasn’t shit the bed with the property.

I’m sure there’s people who buy this thing for the map, dice and dice bag, and might read the game just for setting stuff. With Tolkien, all the setting stuff has been written.

I can go on, but I mean there’s dozens of reasons this KS is blowing big and none of them are the system or publisher.

Modiphius and John Wick may have used the KS’s to boost their egos, but Conan went big because they offered the entire Mongoose range as a stretch goal. Same thing with 7th Sea 2 offering all of 7th Sea 1 as a stretch goal.
Sometimes the swag is just too good to pass up if you have any interest at all.

PbtA’s getting a massive boost from this KS because people got the right license. Now Magpie has to execute and deliver a good game, unlike Wick, who left everyone going...
AD39EB17-CA33-4FDB-A1A6-FA775C6038AF.jpeg
 
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I don’t think it’s the Avatar IP alone. KS has already show. It’s not a draw in and of itself.

I think the magic ingredient here is Magpie successfully marketing a product that appeals to the wider fanbase.
 
Skywalker said:
I don’t think it’s the Avatar IP alone. KS has already show. It’s not a draw in and of itself.

I think the magic ingredient here is Magpie successfully marketing a product that appeals to the wider fanbase.
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...and the wider fan base love PbtA? Jesus Dude, you’re sounding like a Moonie. I love Mythras, but I wouldn’t kid myself that an Avatar KS blowing big would be because of Loz and Pete (no offense).

That’s a boardgame. Aside from minis (that you have to paint yourself) there’s zero swag in that KS. None.

No map you can hang at home or in your cubicle, flashing your Brand Identity.
No d6’s branded with Avatar elemental symbols that you can use in any game, flashing your Brand Identity.
No dice bag branded with Avatar symbols that you can use in any game, flashing your Brand Identity.
No books filled with art that you can place on your coffee table, flashing your Brand Identity.

Seeing a pattern, maybe?
 
No. I don’t think the existing PbtA fanbase is a big factor here TBH. Its not big enough to have this impact, and I would argue that no RPG fanbase would.

PbtA’s ability to appeal to a wider audience as seen with the likes of Adventure Zone’s Amnesty storyline is a factor IMO and this KS may be its first real opportunity to show that ability.

I also not convinced the map and add-ons are the single determinative factor. TOR2e and Conan had all those as well and a large fanbase from the IP, and they didn’t have the impact there.

Plus boardgames have a broader appeal and swag factor that RPGs don’t which is a part of why board game KSs consistently being more successful than their RPG counterparts.
 
CRKrueger said:
unlike Wick, who left everyone going... What the fuck am I reading?
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Yeah, I remember checking out the 7th Sea 2E Quickstart document and thinking exactly that!
 
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Skywalker said:
I agree. Though I wouldn’t underestimate the skill and experience Magpie has brought to this to present a product that taps into a greater segment of those fans than other publishers may have done. I think that may be a particularly important factor here when comparing to the likes of attempts with other IPs.
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I wouldn't underestimate that, either! But really, that's the icing on the Avatar cake:thumbsup:.

CRKrueger said:
...and the wider fan base love PbtA? Jesus Dude, you’re sounding like a Moonie. I love Mythras, but I wouldn’t kid myself that an Avatar KS blowing big would be because of Loz and Pete (no offense).
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Yeah, I wouldn't buy that, either:thumbsup:!
The IP is almost definitely the biggest contributing factor.
 
CRKrueger said:
You see, @SirFrog , the Narrative peeps in general, and PbtA people specifically, like to throw elbows, but the slightest criticism causes them to cry like children and run to the mods, particularly the poster reporting you. Been that way here for years.
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It's funny, when I think of gamers who like to take shots at others and then cry like a baby when things turn against them, I usually think of you.

You've gotten a lot of slack on this forum, and I can understand you being frustrated with Lessa, but this is your last warning from me. This idiotic culture war crap of "All people that like game x are like y" is exactly the kind of thing most people come here to get away from.
 
AsenRG said:
I wouldn't underestimate that, either! But really, that's the icing on the Avatar cake:thumbsup:.
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Yeah, like any KS based on an IP, the size of the fanbase is going to be a big factor as it defines potential reach which is the ultimate limit of how much you can succeed.
 
Skywalker said:
I don’t think what we seeing is coming from the success or popularity of an RPG system. Even 5e alone wouldn’t have the pulling power we are seeing here IMO.

I think it’s a combination of an IP that works particularly well with RPGing, has had long lived popularity at relevant times in an audience that is familiar with both RPG streaming and KS, and is in the hands of a RPG publisher that has honed its skills on presenting a product that appeals beyond RPGers to that entire pool of people.



At USD600k for a line of 20+ books, Conan is not even in the same league as what we are seeing here. The closest we have seen is The One Ring, but that just shows the contrast with what we are seeing here. It really seems like a particular combination of factors.
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Yeah, there’s a combination of factors...
  • IP
  • Geek Lifestyle Swag
  • Big pimpin’ by streamers with audiences.
  • Media sites giving it free advertising because Avatar clicks (part of IP really)
  • Thanks to social media, Felicia Day, WotC, Critical Role, Satine Phoenix, Vin Diesel, Joe Mangianello (and his sun-hot wife), Matthew Lillard, and even Frickin’ Wesley...RPGs are cool and mainstream now in a way that Boardgames, Cardgames, and Wargames (well outside of England) aren’t.
Hell, at this point, some people are buying because it’s the hot thing, and people want in on a pop-culture sensation. Some kids think without it, they won’t be cool, some parents don’t want their kids to be the only one who doesn’t have it. Forbes will cover it if they haven’t already. It might make CNN.

Of all the backers, a couple thousand will even know what PbtA is, and maybe a couple hundred Magpie Games.
 
CRKrueger said:
Of all the backers, a couple thousand will even know what PbtA is, and maybe a couple hundred Magpie Games.
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No one has argued much different from this so far, despite how loudly you keep defending it. But here we are with a ground breaking successful KS for a PbtA RPG by Magpie Games. I am not convinced the IP alone is the sole determinate of success based on all evidence out there to the contrary, so (as much as you may insist otherwise) these factors seem to be having an marked impact on the success, even without name recognition.
 
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Well they seem to still be pulling in near $500k per day. The 4 mill stretch goal is a physical copy of all the extra playbooks and NPC Legends, which I’m happy to see.
 
CRKrueger said:
Heh. Endless tells us to get back on topic, everyone does, then you come in 70-some posts later with an “Or Else?”

Do what you gotta do to make yourself feel better, bro.
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Endless asked you to move on twice, and you kept going both times. Given your history of simply deciding to ignore moderator instructions, I think a final warning is lenient.
 
The physical book is cool. I hope they don’t compile the adventures. I am a big fan of 30 page adventures and based on my own first forays into the hobby I think they will be less intimidating to new GMS.
 
Baulderstone said:
Endless asked you to move on twice, and you kept going both times. Given your history of simply deciding to ignore moderator instructions, I think a final warning is lenient.
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I pulled the post because it’s the wrong forum.
 
Skywalker said:
No one has argued much different from this so far, despite how loudly you keep defending it. But here we are with a ground breaking successful KS for a PbtA RPG by Magpie Games. I am not convinced the IP alone is the sole determinate of success based on all evidence out there to the contrary, so (as much as you may insist otherwise) these factors seem to be having an marked impact on the success, even without name recognition.
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OK, apologies of I've missed you explaining this...
So what else do you think is a major contributing factor, at least comparable to the importance of the IP? Like the "pulling at least 20% of the backer's that joined upon seeing Avatar" kind of comparable? Because I'm pretty sure PbtA ain't even close to that mark.
 
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