Avengers: Endgame (Beware of Spoilers!)

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I still think Steve had help getting back. Even in the timeline he spent with Peggy, there likely was a Hank Pym and a Tony Stark he could have approached for help. Since he didn't reveal anything, who knows how different that timeline was. Did he warn Peggy about Hydra's infiltration of SHIELD? Was he able to help Bucky earlier in that timeline? Lots of things could change, with just the slightest of nudges on his part. Knowledge is power, and Cap had all this knowledge of some major events that he could influence without actively being involved with them That whole situation is a big question mark. Of course, our theories are probably better than the writers lol
 
Stevethulhu said:
On the other hand, you can accept that actually, you can change the past and all those problems go away.
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It's not "all those problems," it's like one and a half problem, and requiring only some minor handwaves to solve. In comparison, if you can change the past, then that raises endless questions that you yourself have brought up. If you can change the past, then the entire movie makes no sense. If you can't, then one small scene at the end gets a bit weird.
 
Stevethulhu said:
Given the backlash against Brie Larsen, not to mention the rumoured edits and reshoots to reduce her part in Endgame, I'm not sure that's more than fan speculation. I think it's possible that at one time they'd wanted her to take over as the face of the MCU. But Brie seems like a difficult person, with some quite unfortunate tendencies towards pissing off the fans and her fellow actors.

I have a feeling that if there's a character they pick as the new lead for the MCU, it will be Spider-Man.
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Given that Feige has gone on record as saying he's happy that they're finally getting into the modern comic stuff, and that Captain Marvel/Carol Danvers was the compromise he wanted for losing the Inhumans to the TV side, not to mention just how protected Ms. Larson is from actual criticism from the access media, I'm pretty sure it stopped being fan speculation for at least a year now.

There's also been statements claiming that Kamala Khan is coming to the MCU, among other claims. I think backlash be damned can be safely assumed.
 
Stevethulhu said:
Given the backlash against Brie Larsen, not to mention the rumoured edits and reshoots to reduce her part in Endgame, I'm not sure that's more than fan speculation. I think it's possible that at one time they'd wanted her to take over as the face of the MCU. But Brie seems like a difficult person, with some quite unfortunate tendencies towards pissing off the fans and her fellow actors.
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These are misogynist talking points unhinged from reality. Let's not promulgate them here.

Stevethulhu said:
And if he went into an alternate timeline, how did he get back to the prime one?
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The same way he did it earlier in the film.

Baeraad said:
He had the gear, and apparently knew how to use it well enough to be able to skip between the other created timelines at will. How did he get back? He took the suit out of storage and pushed a button. The only real question is why he didn't turn up at the gateway - but, well, neither did Thanos and his ship, so that's apparently not a solid rule.
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Thanos and his ship DID appear at the gateway. They emerge at micro-size and blow through the roof, remember?

If Captain America has to return to a gateway (and it's not clear that he does), though, it's not clear that it has to be the same gateway. There are at least two other gateways active in the prime timeline that are left unsupervised for extended periods of time in which he could easily arrive, walk away without being noticed, and then wait around until the funeral.

There are basically two possibilities:

Option #1: Cap went to the past and created an alternate timeline where he married Peggy. If he did that, all he has to do in order to appear as an old man on the bench at the end of the film is use the time device to jump between timelines... which, of course, we see the characters do multiple times throughout the movie.

Option #2: Traveling to the past isn't an instant butterfly effect that automatically creates a new timeline. In this scenario, it's possible to go to your own past, do stuff, and have it remain part of your timeline as long as you don't change the timeline. In this case, it's possible that Cap always went to the past and he always married Peggy. He just had to make sure he didn't change the past by doing so. If this is the case, then he can get to the bench by just walking over there.

Which is true? Doesn't really make a difference, so you're free to believe whichever version of reality you want. Both are consistent with the rules of time travel as laid out in the movie. Neither is a plot hole.

Re: Pruning.

There seems to be some misunderstanding of this line. Cap isn't saying he's going to eliminate the alternate timelines: He's eliminating "nasty alternative realities" by returning the Infinity Stones to them before they go nasty. It's what Bruce and the Ancient One were talking about before: Removing the Time Stone from that alternate timeline creates a horrific timeline where Dormammu eats the planet a few years down the line. Returning the Time Stone doesn't eliminate the alternate timeline (that's the same timeline where Loki has stolen the Cube), but it does minimize the damage they did to it.

It's possible that some of the timelines will collapse back into the Prime timeline, but that's obviously not true for most of them: In one Loki has escaped, forking reality pretty badly. In another, Thanos has vanished. Only the 1970's fork where Tony took the Cube could realistically be put back on track.
 
Justin Alexander said:
These are misogynist talking points unhinged from reality. Let's not promulgate them here.
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This would be ignoring several known interviews and statements that she, Ms. Larson, herself have made. She's also known in Hollywood in general to be hard to work with.
 
Endgame estimated to be reeling in $148.5M this weekend, the second best second weekend ever, behind The Force Awakens $149.2M.
 
Justin Alexander said:
These are misogynist talking points unhinged from reality. Let's not promulgate them here.
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Do not attack the people, attack their points. This just shows that people have no actual point to refute, they make up stories to deflect any criticisms.

So please, make a point, don't attack people. It doesn't help the position.
 
Baeraad said:
He had the gear, and apparently knew how to use it well enough to be able to skip between the other created timelines at will. How did he get back? He took the suit out of storage and pushed a button. The only real question is why he didn't turn up at the gateway - but, well, neither did Thanos and his ship, so that's apparently not a solid rule.

Look, I'll grant you that that scene was confusing and apparently written by a bunch of nimrods who didn't understand anything that had gotten said up to that point. But it's one hell of a lot easier to handwave that slight bit of oddness than it is to try to untangle the mess of nonsensical plots and inconsistent characterisation that, as you yourself have complained about, you end up with if you decide based on it that no, you can change the past after all.
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At what point can we stop using spoiler tags?

I agree with your interpretation. It's even possible Cap had a wizard send him over. That's a pretty small point, really. I think they avoided most of the branches but still ended up creating three. A branch where Loki escaped with a stone, a branch where Thanos and his ship vanished, and a branch where Cap reappeared in the '40s.
 
Spoiler tags are only in effect until Sunday night. After that no tags needed.
 
All this time travel hokum and talk of superheroes dying has made me realize I have no interest in seeing this film. I didn't think the first half was very good anyway and this one sounds even worse for someone of my tastes.

I really don't care if Brie Larson is an a-hole and I'm not clear on what that has to do with whether a film is good. A lot of good actors are a-holes. I'd probably want to punch Sean Penn and John Cusack in the face (and maybe vice versa :tongue:) if I had to deal with them in person, but up on the big screen I only care about the story and the acting. :eat:
 
Supers movies have been using time travel since Superman, one of my absolute favorites, so I can’t knock it too much without sounding like a hypocrite.
 
Dumarest said:
All this time travel hokum and talk of superheroes dying has made me realize I have no interest in seeing this film. I didn't think the first half was very good anyway and this one sounds even worse for someone of my tastes.
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I could go on and on, as to why both the films are terrible, but I won't.

Dumarest said:
I really don't care if Brie Larson is an a-hole and I'm not clear on what that has to do with whether a film is good. A lot of good actors are a-holes. I'd probably want to punch Sean Penn and John Cusack in the face (and maybe vice versa :tongue:) if I had to deal with them in person, but up on the big screen I only care about the story and the acting. :eat:
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That's my position. If I didn't watch movies because an actor's behaviour or statements, I'd hate anything Chris Evans did. But Winter Soldier is still my favourite film of the MCU.
 
Dumarest said:
All this time travel hokum and talk of superheroes dying has made me realize I have no interest in seeing this film. I didn't think the first half was very good anyway and this one sounds even worse for someone of my tastes.

I really don't care if Brie Larson is an a-hole and I'm not clear on what that has to do with whether a film is good. A lot of good actors are a-holes. I'd probably want to punch Sean Penn and John Cusack in the face (and maybe vice versa :tongue:) if I had to deal with them in person, but up on the big screen I only care about the story and the acting. :eat:
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:angel: It's OK. I quit on Avengers after the first movie. Actually, I quit on joining my friends & family on midnight releases AND seeing superhero movies in theatres in general after that first Avengers movie. :thumbsup: I realized I am not the target audience and decided to travel my own way.

:sun::angel: Know that you are not alone. :heart:

edit: I forgot to add a spoiler.
Does this spoiler make my post go faster? :hurry: Sorry, just teasing those street racers out there. :hehe:
 
I don’t think y’all need to be using the Spoiler formatting, the fact there are Spoilers is right in the title.
 
Dumarest said:
All this time travel hokum and talk of superheroes dying has made me realize I have no interest in seeing this film. I didn't think the first half was very good anyway and this one sounds even worse for someone of my tastes.

I really don't care if Brie Larson is an a-hole and I'm not clear on what that has to do with whether a film is good. A lot of good actors are a-holes. I'd probably want to punch Sean Penn and John Cusack in the face (and maybe vice versa :tongue:) if I had to deal with them in person, but up on the big screen I only care about the story and the acting. :eat:
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Yeah remember that audio of Christian Bale losing his shit on set? Don’t recall Batman fans giving one shit.

Or this guy some may have heard of called Marlon Brando?
 
Endless Flight said:
Supers movies have been using time travel since Superman, one of my absolute favorites, so I can’t knock it too much without sounding like a hypocrite.
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Imagine if they had the time travel sequence from that classic today? Fanboy heads would explode!
 
Voros said:
Yeah remember that audio of Christian Bale losing his shit on set? Don’t recall Batman fans giving one shit.

Or this guy some may have heard of called Marlon Brando?
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Bale lost his shit on the Terminator set. And it was hillarious. Brando was difficult, but also a bona fide genius. Larsen just runs off at the mouth, insults the fan base of the movie that made her a household name and acts like an entitled brat and makes her co stars look incredibly uncomfortable on the press junkets.
 
Stevethulhu said:
Bale lost his shit on the Terminator set. And it was hillarious. Brando was difficult, but also a bona fide genius. Larsen just runs off at the mouth, insults the fan base of the movie that made her a household name and acts like an entitled brat and makes her co stars look incredibly uncomfortable on the press junkets.
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So when Bale loses his shit it is ‘hilarious ‘ but Larsen is beyond the pale somehow? Okay.

Internet fandoms are a bit transparent these days. To say why would step into politics so let’s just drop it.
 
Voros said:
Imagine if they had the time travel sequence from that classic today? Fanboy heads would explode!
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People still call that scene for being ridiculous. I mean, turning back time by flying so fast the world spins backwards? Ridiculous!

Or did he fly so fast he went faster than light and relativity made him go back in time?
 
Stevethulhu said:
People still call that scene for being ridiculous. I mean, turning back time by flying so fast the world spins backwards? Ridiculous!

Or did he fly so fast he went faster than light and relativity made him go back in time?
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Course it makes no sense. Donner was well aware of it. He was treating his film as what it was: an adaptation of a comic book. The classic Superman comics did far goofier things all the time.
 
Voros said:
So when Bale loses his shit it is hilarious but Larson is beyond the pale somehow? Okay.
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Speaking as a 40 year old white dude, being insulted by some movie star doeant make me think highly of her. Where some movie star losing their shit over trivia is as funny as Yngwie telling someone they Unleashed the Focking Fury.
 
[QUOTE="Voros]

Internet fandoms are a bit transparent these days. To say why would step into politics so let’s just drop it.
[/QUOTE]

Yes please everyone, I don't want to read this thread because spoilers, so let's save that stuff for another forum, if you will
 
Saw it. Loved it. Hated my theatre’s air circulation. So much dust in the air getting in my eyes. My eyes were so watery. Happened in all the most dramatic moments too, damnit! Couldn’t see much. The armrests were too soft too. How could a weakling like me crush armrests during tense scenes? Stupid theatre...
 
Voros said:
So when Bale loses his shit it is ‘hilarious ‘ but Larsen is beyond the pale somehow? Okay.

Internet fandoms are a bit transparent these days. To say why would step into politics so let’s just drop it.
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I honestly have no idea what she said that upset people. The only things I've seen attributed to her are non-issues, IMO.
 
Tom B said:
I honestly have no idea what she said that upset people. The only things I've seen attributed to her are non-issues, IMO.
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She attacked the fans with her racism and bigotry, dismissing and belittling the very people who made the MCU movies popular. The issue is also that from here on in, she's taking over the role that Robert Downie Jr. had, in that she's now the new 'face' of the MCU. She's also the most protected actress on the planet right now, with the access media defending her from imaginary attacks that they claim are happening. It's all lies and made up, people don't like her not because she's a woman, but because she's honestly unlikable and rather demonstratably stupid.

But like I said, I don't care about the actor's politics. I wouldn't like Winter Soldier or First Avenger if I did.

The issue I had with Captain Marvel, outside the fact that it effectively retcons the last ten years of Marvel movies for the sake of Disney having a Wonder Woman (And I can point out the issues there), is that Brie Larson has none of the acting power to bring Carol Danvers to life. She sounds like a petulant child, and I mean that literally, her voice is too high pitched to actually have any gravitas or power that Ms. Danvers should have.

Carol is listed at 5' 11", that makes her an amazon by any stretch of the imagination, which also means that she would have a presence to her, she's tall, statuesque and knows how to use it, especially as a Military woman. Now, the actress doesn't need to be that tall, but has to be able to pretend to be.

Take Gal Gadot in contrast. Now, originally, I had (still do, but it's much lesser now) reservations because she wasn't very Grecian looking (she's too tanned, Middle Eastern women do not make good stand ins) and she was too skinny. However, she has charisma, knows how to radiate power and confidence, without losing a touch of her femininity (which I understand is now a bad word in North America? Weird) which won me over. Wonder Woman is still a mediocre film, nowhere near the fun Shazam or Aquaman brought, but it's still better than the rest of the Snyderverse. And a lot of that is because of Ms. Gadot herself.

Brie Larson has nothing of that sort. She's not leading lady material and never will be, it's sad, but that's how the cookie crumbles. And yet, somehow, Disney thinks she is. Something fishy is going on there.
 
Chris Brady said:
These are misogynist talking points unhinged from reality.
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Do not attack the people, attack their points.
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... you think the talking points are people?

Kinda rolled a critical failure on your deflective rhetoric there.

Chris Brady said:
The only things I've seen attributed to her are non-issues, IMO.
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people don't like her not because she's a woman, but because she's honestly unlikable and rather demonstratably stupid.
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Do not attack people, attack their points.
 
Justin Alexander said:
... you think the talking points are people?

Kinda rolled a critical failure on your deflective rhetoric there.



Do not attack people, attack their points.
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You didn't offer any counter points. Simply came out with the usual accusation used to defend Brie Larsen and attempted to cut off a conversation.

And if similar comments had been made about Ted Nugent, you would have had no issue with it at all.
 
K, I asked nicely.

thread is temporarily closed while I figure out whats going on and why we keep getting reports
 
(sigh) First off I'd like to thank everyone who made it necessary for me to go read spoiler-blacked info about the movie.

In case the internet in any way prevents the sarcastic tone of that statement from being conveyed, let me translate that:

giphy.gif


As a special reward, here's my present to everyone:

The next person who brings up any of the drama concerning Brie Larson, whether you think she's a bigot, the people criticizing her are bigots, etc etc, is getting banned.

That includes any of that Bullshit line dancing "I don't want to talk about politics but..." or "I cant go into specifics because politics, but..."

The tangent doesn't belong on The Pub. You are free to like or dislike any public figure you want, you are free to not see movies starring people you don't like, and free to hate on or love on any film or performance. But The Pub is not the place for what is obviously yet another battle in the Culture War. The Pub is supposed to be an escape from that. If you are not on board with that, then you don't need to be on this board.

In the length of time since The Pub started I have never before threatened a ban, and honestly it makes me feel a little sick to my stomach, but if people aren't going to offer me the basic courtesy of respecting my previous request, then I'm not going to extend the further courtesy of not exercising mod authority, as distasteful as I find it.
 
Spoilers:

Iron man in particular, my least fave of the avengers, was super redeemed, seeing him as a parent to his daughter and as a son to his father. Such great scenes.
 
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Just to add to Tristram's comments, if you see someone saying something incendiary that moves into politics/culture war territory, don't argue with them. Just report it. It makes for a much smaller mess to clean up, and I could have read just one spoiler post instead of a whole slew of them in an effort to piece things together.
 
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