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ffilz

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Maybe upload it to the Resources section of this site?
I'm sort of using Google Docs as a blog... I've referenced the document from elsewhere and also want the ability to easily add to it or update it.

Of course comments can just be here in this thread or by PM or whatever. I suppose I could start a new thread for discussion of it.
 

CRKrueger

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Yes definitely. There will be a bigger map in the Sartar boxed set, but in the meantime, there looks like plenty of good content in the starter set so I will be purchasing it.
I read your article. Glorantha Dwarves always seemed to me to be an NPC race. They have a job - to keep the universe running.
 

raniE

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So, there's been two pieces of very big news for the Swedish BRP scene in the last week. First of all, Free League, best known perhaps for Mutant: Year Zero , Symbaroum, Forbidden Lands and their Alien rpg, just announced that they have acquired the rights (unclear if they bought them or if they're just licensing them) to Drakar och Demoner, the granddaddy of Swedish RPGs and responsible for making BRP the default Swedish game system for many years. Secondly, Eloso, the company that adapted the latest edition of Call of Cthulhu into Swedish (not just a translation but with whole new chapters about Sweden in the 1920s etc) announced that they have just started work on a Swedish version of RuneQuest. So, in a few years, the BRP system went from seemingly almost dead in Swedish RPGs, excepty for in extremely modified form, to three big name games coming out with it. Yes, Free League confirmed that the new Drakar och Demoner will be BRP based, although that the rules will be modernized and streamlined (I don't like the sound of that) while the game will be adapted for online play and streaming. The Swedish RuneQuest will meanwhile use the newest edition rules, but focus on the region of Talastar which the team has been assigned by Chaosium.
 

Trippy

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Rick Meints does have the type of voice that would be well suited to meditational relaxation audio recordings.

The box set does look magnificently produced, but for my money I am holding out for the next Pendragon release.
 

Mankcam

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The Swedish RuneQuest will meanwhile use the newest edition rules, but focus on the region of Talastar which the team has been assigned by Chaosium.
Interesting that they are doing a different setting region to that of the english version of RQG, so I hope we get that content in English one day, and vice -versa...
 

AsenRG

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Interesting that they are doing a different setting region to that of the english version of RQG, so I hope we get that content in English one day, and vice -versa...
It's an interesting decision, no doubt, but it makes total sense. After all, if they were writing the same region, contradictions could arise, right?The alternative would be to forbid the local developers from adding to the setting...which would be unfair.
But yeah, a KS for translations wouldn't be amiss a couple years from now. (The vice versa is probably unnecessary, given how many Scandinavians have a working knowledge of English:shade:).
 

raniE

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Interesting that they are doing a different setting region to that of the english version of RQG, so I hope we get that content in English one day, and vice -versa...
Yeah, it’s the same plan they used for Call of Cthulhu 7th in Swedish, where they presented a lot on Sweden in the 20s.
 

raniE

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Okay, so further news about the new edition of Drakar och Demoner, an interview with Tomas Härenstam, one of the founders of Free League. He says that he's a roleplaying nostalgic (and looking at what Free League has produced, it isn't that surprising). Drakar och Demoner was the second rpg he played, after Mutant, one of the other Swedish BRP games and the ancestor of Mutant: Year Zero. About the new edition he says that the old editions they're looking msot closely at are the 2nd, Expert, 3rd, 4th and 5th editions. So classic old school DoD. They're currently leaning toward D20 rather than D100 resolution (which as I have mentioned before was a change the Swedish BRP branch underwent in the 80s with DoD, with the Expert edition and then from the 4th edition on, as the previous editions had rounded all skill values to the nearest 5% anyway).

They're not sure if they're going to do a kickstarter or a regular release (which is a bit of a rarity these days) but if they have a kickstarter they want to have some sort of quickstart rules or similar available so people can judge before they buy in (the previous edition by Riotminds from 2016 was not well received due in large part to the rule changes made). There are also no plans for an English language version of the game as of yet, and they feel that Drakar och Demoner will be their Swedish language flagship going forward, while most of the rest of their games then will presumably be primarily in English.

Artwise, they will not be using the classic Nils Gulliksson art that they used for Forbidden Lands (he was one of the main artists for DoD back in the 80s). Isntead they will be using Johan Egerkrans, who also did the art for the recent failed Riotminds version. The art really wasn't why it failed though, so I can't fault them for that. Here's an example of the profession illustrations he did for the last edition:

tEgerkrans yrken.jpg

And yes, the sharp eyed among you will notice a Duck in there. Despite originally being based on Magic World, Ducks have been a big part of Drakar och Demoner. The illustrations are, going left to right for each row in order; Craftsman, Seafarer, Hunter, Thief, Knight, Scholar, Warrior, Merchant, Wizard.

What they're signalling with their choice of artist is that they don't want this to have the feel of a retro game, but to be a modern game for the here and now, even though it uses old rules. I approve of that. I see no reason why BRP games should be relegated to some pure nostalgia niche, so as long as they don't make huge changes in the rules, or move it away from the core of BRP, I'll probably be happy.
 

Acmegamer

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Hopefully though they decide to keep the d100 mechanic versus the d20. We really don't need more d20 systems to in my opinion. I'd much rather see more done with the d100 BRP mechanics system.
 

Lofgeornost

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They're currently leaning toward D20 rather than D100 resolution (which as I have mentioned before was a change the Swedish BRP branch underwent in the 80s with DoD, with the Expert edition and then from the 4th edition on, as the previous editions had rounded all skill values to the nearest 5% anyway).

I am Jon Snow when it comes to Swedish RPGs; I know nothing. So, did these earlier versions of Drakar och Demoner keep the essence of the BRP approach--no character classes or levels, just skills that increase independently of one another--while using a D20 for resolution? Or did they bring in elements of the D20/D&D class/level approach?
 

Spellslinging Sellsword

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At one point in the past RiotMinds had the old edition up for free download and I grabbed the 1982 first edition PDF from them. I can't read it, but it looks like BRP to me. Here's the stat block for a Troll:

1631231609084.png
Also, why not have the namesakes:

1631231944863.png
 
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raniE

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I am Jon Snow when it comes to Swedish RPGs; I know nothing. So, did these earlier versions of Drakar och Demoner keep the essence of the BRP approach--no character classes or levels, just skills that increase independently of one another--while using a D20 for resolution? Or did they bring in elements of the D20/D&D class/level approach?
Yes, the D20 is just a die. Earlier versions of Drakar och Demoner had all skill values rounded to the nearest 5%, so you might have Broadsword attack 75% and Broadsword parry 80%, but if you succeeded at an experience roll with the attack skill it would move up to 80%. So they just cut it down to a D20, so now you would habe Broadsword attack 15 and Broadsword parry 16. This also meant that Characteristic rolls could just be against the characteristic, rather than against the characteristic *5, as is often the case in other BRP systems. On the other hand, critical rolls had to be modified, essentially if you rolled a 1 you needed to roll again and get equal to or lower than your skill value to confirm a critical success, while a 20 would require you to roll over your skill value on the reroll to get a critical failure. Special successes were never part of DoD.

The D20 versions of DoD were also the only ones to feature hit locations, the D100 versions ran on total HP instead. In general the D20 editions were more rules heavy. The magic rules were better in the less complicated editions though, essentially being the magic system from old Magic World or the Big Gold Book (although demon summoning was still handled as per the Sorcery rules from Stormbringer or newer Magic World, assigning D8s of stats and such), while the D20 editions had a system where you needed to learn a Magic School skill first and then each spell could not exceed the School skill in complexity or in skill level, which made Wizards much weaker. So hopefully they fix that, even though having the spells belong to different schools of magic and most wizards only specializing in one was neat.
 
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raniE

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At one point in the past RiotMinds had the old edition up for free download and I grabbed the 1982 first edition PDF from them. I can't read it, but it looks like BRP to me. Here's the stat block for a Troll:

View attachment 35419
Also, why not have the namesakes:

View attachment 35420
The first edition is just a translation of the BRP booklet and the Magic World booklet from Chaosium’s Worlds of Wonder. Here are the same statblocks from the 1991 edition, which had gone over to the D20:
E5AC779B-3941-472F-B064-91106953EB06.jpeg
DC4117F0-27F5-4FEB-B012-BF807EE71408.jpeg
Similar, but these rules just give typical values instead of a die range for monsters (the character creation system was point buy by this point anyway) and all skill values (FV) are 1/5 of what they would be on a D100.
 

AsenRG

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And yes, the sharp eyed among you will notice a Duck in there. Despite originally being based on Magic World, Ducks have been a big part of Drakar och Demoner. The illustrations are, going left to right for each row in order; Craftsman, Seafarer, Hunter, Thief, Knight, Scholar, Warrior, Merchant, Wizard.
Next they'd have goose as playable race...:devil:
 

raniE

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Hopefully though they decide to keep the d100 mechanic versus the d20. We really don't need more d20 systems to in my opinion. I'd much rather see more done with the d100 BRP mechanics system.
Mechanically it’s pretty much the same, just divide all skill values by 1/5 and hey presto, Swedish BRP variant.
 

raniE

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Next they'd have goose as playable race...:devil:
There have been wolf men, rat men and other similar anthropomorphic animal races (the latest edition had ducks and wolf men as playable out of the box), so not entirely out of left field, no.
 

raniE

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Further parts of the same interview with Free League about new DoD (which is being released in chunks). First, it is confirmed that this new edition won't be set in a specific campaign setting. I approve of this. For a lot of people, Drakar och Demoner is synonymous with the campaign setting Ereb Altor from the late 80s and early 90s, but for at least as many people it isn't. The newer campaign settings Chronopia (a weird steampunk city setting created by Bill King) and Trudvang (from the Riotminds versions) are also not going to be used. Good, I think Drakar och Demoner works well as a generic game.

The next part is about third party publishing. Free League is looking at a model closer to what WotC has going for D&D 5e here. They feel that the Free League Community Workshop on DriveThru probably won't work as well simply because PDF use isn't as widespread in Sweden as in the US, which tracks with my own experiences.
 

PencilBoy99

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Is is there a good generic BRP solution that's current if you don't want to use Mythras? Do you use Revolution D100? There have been lots of fun innovation in the D100 space that weren't around at the time of BRP Gold. Do you use something else (simpler than Mythras) and hack stuff into it?
 

AsenRG

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Is is there a good generic BRP solution that's current if you don't want to use Mythras? Do you use Revolution D100? There have been lots of fun innovation in the D100 space that weren't around at the time of BRP Gold. Do you use something else (simpler than Mythras) and hack stuff into it?
BRP is almost notoriuously hackable, so pretty much any BRP game can be treated as "generic".

Open Quest, Revolution d100 (not my favourite, but you should look into it), BRP Gold book... you have lots of choice. And those are just the generic ones.
Even lighter, you can have stuff like DwD studios with their d00 system.

But you know, for me the question is "why wouldn't I use Mythras". And the answer is usually "there's no reason not to":shade:.
 

Acmegamer

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Is is there a good generic BRP solution that's current if you don't want to use Mythras? Do you use Revolution D100? There have been lots of fun innovation in the D100 space that weren't around at the time of BRP Gold. Do you use something else (simpler than Mythras) and hack stuff into it?
GURPS? I'll see myself out.
 

Acmegamer

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BRP is almost notoriuously hackable, so pretty much any BRP game can be treated as "generic".

Open Quest, Revolution d100 (not my favourite, but you should look into it), BRP Gold book... you have lots of choice. And those are just the generic ones.
Even lighter, you can have stuff like DwD studios with their d00 system.

But you know, for me the question is "why wouldn't I use Mythras". And the answer is usually "there's no reason not to":shade:.

No reason not to use Mythras Imperative for sure. It's readable with the font/type. :smile: I'd use it as a solid lesson in "look at 40 page rgp that's awesome and complete" example. There was that other thread where folks were talking about rpgs being too long and badly written. I'd used Mythras Imperative and GURPS Lite 3e or 4e (They're 32/33 or so pages if I recall) as awesome examples.
 

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The new OpenQuest 3rd edition is pretty good, a rather well done complete fantasy package. Quick character creation, easy combat rules, extensive "battle magic" section (I'd probably skip the other magic systems for a while) and even a setting.

I also think that GORE, the pre-OGL retroclone holds up very well.

Still, someone should do a very concise Magic World clone that tries to aim for the OSR aesthetic.
 

Raleel

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It's readable with the font/type. :smile:
lol

ya, I would look at Imperative, OpenQuest or perhaps Rev d100.

I think there is a lot of room for an even simpler d100. Take Imperative, remove hit locations (how dare you, Raleel!) and trim the skill list by about... 30-40% (looking at you boating, locale, customs, dance, drive, native tongue, ride, sing, unarmed. raleel, you bastard!) . You would have to define what stun location did without locations. Probably a few other tweaks here and there. You could probably get this leaner Murdered Sacred Cow edition down to 32 pages with elimination of some professional skills as well.

we talk about this a lot more in the BRP war thread this thread, further up. good lord
 
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raniE

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The new OpenQuest 3rd edition is pretty good, a rather well done complete fantasy package. Quick character creation, easy combat rules, extensive "battle magic" section (I'd probably skip the other magic systems for a while) and even a setting.

I also think that GORE, the pre-OGL retroclone holds up very well.

Still, someone should do a very concise Magic World clone that tries to aim for the OSR aesthetic.
Well, we’ll see what happens with Drakar och Demoner, but the stated purpose of Free League is to make it for beginners, i.e. it should be easily usable as the first rpg that gets put in your hands as a player.
 

raniE

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lol

ya, I would look at Imperative, OpenQuest or perhaps Rev d100.

I think there is a lot of room for an even simpler d100. Take Imperative, remove hit locations (how dare you, Raleel!) and trim the skill list by about... 30-40% (looking at you boating, locale, customs, dance, drive, native tongue, ride, sing, unarmed. raleel, you bastard!) . You would have to define what stun location did without locations. Probably a few other tweaks here and there. You could probably get this leaner Murdered Sacred Cow edition down to 32 pages with elimination of some professional skills as well.

we talk about this a lot more in the BRP war thread.
Isn’t this the BRP war thread?
 

Endless Flight

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lol

ya, I would look at Imperative, OpenQuest or perhaps Rev d100.

I think there is a lot of room for an even simpler d100. Take Imperative, remove hit locations (how dare you, Raleel!) and trim the skill list by about... 30-40% (looking at you boating, locale, customs, dance, drive, native tongue, ride, sing, unarmed. raleel, you bastard!) . You would have to define what stun location did without locations. Probably a few other tweaks here and there. You could probably get this leaner Murdered Sacred Cow edition down to 32 pages with elimination of some professional skills as well.

we talk about this a lot more in the BRP war thread.
509C421F-7A60-4B9C-B4CA-16FE0580DFD7.jpeg
 

Ronnie Sanford

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Is is there a good generic BRP solution that's current if you don't want to use Mythras? Do you use Revolution D100? There have been lots of fun innovation in the D100 space that weren't around at the time of BRP Gold. Do you use something else (simpler than Mythras) and hack stuff into it?
Not completely generic but Jackals have some good innovations on classic OpenQuest.
 

AsenRG

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Still, someone should do a very concise Magic World clone that tries to aim for the OSR aesthetic.
Like Crimson Blades? I prefer the d6 a.k.a. Chainmail-inspired version.
Or if you want d100, Blood Magic for Mongoose's Legend (a.k.a. MRQ2 without the trademarked terms:shade:)?
 

Raleel

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Murdered Sacred Cow Edition is through character creation, and it's 5 pages. About 1/3 of the length of Imperative for that content!
 

raniE

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'War' is kind of a strong word...

I mean you'll have to take that up with Mankcam Mankcam as he's the one who named the thread :smile:

Anyway, more stuff on Drakar och Demoner. Tomas was asked how they're going to differentiate Drakar och Demoner from Symbaroum, The One Ring and Forbidden Lands, all fantasy games from Free League. Further, Symbaroum and Forbidden Lands are both based on Drakar och Demoner. So, from Free League's perspective the first difference is that DoD will only be in Swedish (I guess everyone here will have to inundate the company with requests to translate it) while The One Ring is only in English. For tonal differences and such, Symbaroum is mainly it's campaign world and long campaign, and the core tone of the game can be summarized in the illustrations of the dark forest. Forbidden Lands is very old school, all about survival, hex-crawl (not even translated that, we don't really have a Swedish phrase for that) and exploration. Very retro, with old black and white line art from Nils Gulliksson, one of the main illustrators for old DoD. Also brutal and dark. Drakar och Demoner on the other hand is to have a strong fairy-tale feeling. Still full of excitement and drama, but in general more a feeling of fairy-tales (the Swedish word "saga" is a bit different in tone, but "fairy-tale" is the closest translation. It does not have the same connotation as the English word saga, which is pretty much all about the Icelandic stuff), excitement and adventure.

Symbaroum and Forbidden Lands don't really require that you've played rpg's before, but they assume you have, in different ways. Drakar och Demoner is going to be a perfect game to put in the hands of someone who has not played before, but also have enough depth to continue being fun later.

Unlike in the olden days of the Swedish translation of MERP, it is unlikely that The One Ring will be dual statted for Drakar och Demoner as well. But Tomas opens up for maybe a separate pdf of such stats.
 

raniE

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So, the final part of the interview with Tomas from Free League is about who will be working on this game. Tomas himself will be writing the first draft of the rules. The rules won't be a copy of the old game (it had several different editions anyway). They want to get input from both old hands and new people, and end up with one foot in the old and one in the new.

Okay, so, as long as it's still recognizably BRP with the same general philosophy guiding the rules it should be good. Variation between different BRP rulesets is nothing new after all.
 
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