Bundle of Holding Thread

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chuckdee said:
I mean, right above yours... but fair enough.
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We seem to be having senior moments lately. I fear for this board in 20 years. Someone's going to stumble across it and wonder how these guys can have the same conversation every day and never realize they just had it. However that battle with the hoard of Tiamat is going to be epic to relive each day!
 
Bunch said:
We seem to be having senior moments lately. I fear for this board in 20 years. Someone's going to stumble across it and wonder how these guys can have the same conversation every day and never realize they just had it. However that battle with the hoard of Tiamat is going to be epic to relive each day!
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We can keep running the same modules over and over again.
 
CRKrueger said:
We can keep running the same modules over and over again.
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The number of times I’ve had players who can’t remember what die to roll in a game we’ve been playing for years, yet can recite room-by-room descriptions of modules I don’t even remember running decades ago, will always astound me.
 
chuckdee said:
This is the second time its been on Bundle, if I recall correctly.
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That's my recollection as well. Did you buy it last time? I like Monte Cook but his current work doesn't really do a ton for me. My kids liked No Thank You Evil!
 
Bunch said:
That's my recollection as well. Did you buy it last time? I like Monte Cook but his current work doesn't really do a ton for me. My kids liked No Thank You Evil!
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Nah. That never did anything for me as an 'experience' type of game like they billed it. I like the Cypher stuff, and am giving that Devil his due a chance. But Invisible Sun was dead to me the moment it was announced.
 
Of interest to somebody?

Bundle of Holding - The heroes have departed

bundleofholding.com bundleofholding.com

Looks good value.

I quite enjoyed my time with 5e. Character creation is crunchy like most supers games (having to pore through and pick the powers, the effect, the doodads and watchamacallits, then go for talents/skills/weaknesses etc) but far better that than random character creation for supers generally (only time I had decent results was with Golden Heroes). Despite Fifth edition being a bullet stopper I found it more accessible than 6e which was (as far as I recall) two bulletstoppers plus some extra padding. Handy if you rob a bank and stuff a couple down the front etc.
 
spittingimage said:
I played in a Champions game on the weekend. In three hours we got through two rounds of combat.
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Beats out my record of 4.5 hours for Rolemaster, it took longer but it was more than two rounds.
Note to self: In future never bring 20 monsters into a Rolemaster encounter.
 
Bunch said:
Did anyone know the rules ahead of time?
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We had someone at the table (not actually the GM) who loves Champions and knows the rules really well. Having him there made the rule-consulting easier, but it might have gone faster without him because then we could have just fudged the amount of damage and knockback a flying car does.
 
spittingimage said:
We had someone at the table (not actually the GM) who loves Champions and knows the rules really well. Having him there made the rule-consulting easier, but it might have gone faster without him because then we could have just fudged the amount of damage and knockback a flying car does.
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0k. I probably would have fudged that too after looking it up for a few minutes and not seeing a quick answer. Last I played HERO was 2nd edition. I don't combat taking that long per round. We did tend to favor more simplistic tactics back then.
 
Bunch said:
0k. I probably would have fudged that too after looking it up for a few minutes and not seeing a quick answer. Last I played HERO was 2nd edition. I don't combat taking that long per round. We did tend to favor more simplistic tactics back then.
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Yea, I don't ever remember combat taking that long in Hero. Sure, it was more involved, but not horribly so. I did at one point as we were becoming dissatisfied with Fantasy Hero convert to Cold Iron on the premise of: "Well, if combat is going to take that long, let's use a system that works for me." That didn't go over too well and we switched the campaign to AD&D. But Hero and Cold Iron were of the form of "a whole combat might take several hours to run" not "two rounds of combat take several hours to run".
 
ffilz said:
Yea, I don't ever remember combat taking that long in Hero. Sure, it was more involved, but not horribly so. I did at one point as we were becoming dissatisfied with Fantasy Hero convert to Cold Iron on the premise of: "Well, if combat is going to take that long, let's use a system that works for me." That didn't go over too well and we switched the campaign to AD&D. But Hero and Cold Iron were of the form of "a whole combat might take several hours to run" not "two rounds of combat take several hours to run".
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5e d&d seems pretty quick. I semi regularly run 3+ combats with exploration and significant dialogue in a 2 hour session.
 
chuckdee said:
Well, I could say the same about the 4.5 hour Rolemaster combat touted above. I think it's going to vary by group/knowledge.
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On the other hand, my record is way more than that. I'm not sure of the exact length, but I had a Cold Iron combat finish somewhere between 8:00 AM and 10:00 AM after an all afternoon and all night session. I can't imagine it was much past midnight when we started the combat. It was a major combat against serious foes and the PCs (and the foes) used LOTS of buffing magic which in Cold Iron includes extra hit points and extra armor damage reduction.
 
I have tried repeatedly to get into Hero over the decades and I just can't. My eyes glaze over when I read the mechanics. It's gotta be some failing of mine. On the other hand I never had an issue understanding Rolemaster and MERP. Go figure.
 
Acmegamer said:
I have tried repeatedly to get into Hero over the decades and I just can't. My eyes glaze over when I read the mechanics. It's gotta be some failing of mine. On the other hand I never had an issue understanding Rolemaster and MERP. Go figure.
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When used in Justice Inc. zi had no problem with Hero. All other iterations and my eyes glazed just like yours.
 
Acmegamer said:
I have tried repeatedly to get into Hero over the decades and I just can't. My eyes glaze over when I read the mechanics. It's gotta be some failing of mine. On the other hand I never had an issue understanding Rolemaster and MERP. Go figure.
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I like 2e but when I saw the book for 4e I had a similar reaction.
 
Bunch said:
I like 2e but when I saw the book for 4e I had a similar reaction.
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Sometime this year, I'm going to have to force myself to just sit down with no distractions and try to read through the main core Hero book and maybe Fantasy Hero as well, where my main interest is. It actually really bothers me that it's never clicked for me over the years, no matter what edition. I've currently got all the main 6e stuff, so I have no excuse not to give it a hard try. lol.

Anyone know how Hero 5e compares to 6e? I just noted the Bundle of Holding is for 5e.
 
Acmegamer said:
Anyone know how Hero 5e compares to 6e? I just noted the Bundle of Holding is for 5e.
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HERO System Sixth Edition drops the venerable cost breaks for Figured Characteristics, and compensates by upping a character's starting point totals. Some skill prices have changed, a few powers (especially Adjustments) are reworked and repriced, and Elemental Controls have given way to "Unified Power." The most significant design revision is a slight nerfing of Killing Attacks: The Stun Multiple is reduced, and non-resistant defenses work against KAs by default. On the other hand, Armor Piercing is now a +1/4 advantage -- cheap!

In getting into the Hero System, you're better served to start with the stripped-down Sidekick for 5E or with the Fourth Edition (the "Big Blue Book"), a more engaging read. Hero Games also has a free "Hero in Two Pages" summary of the Sixth Edition system.
 
Acmegamer said:
Sometime this year, I'm going to have to force myself to just sit down with no distractions and try to read through the main core Hero book and maybe Fantasy Hero as well, where my main interest is. It actually really bothers me that it's never clicked for me over the years, no matter what edition. I've currently got all the main 6e stuff, so I have no excuse not to give it a hard try. lol.

Anyone know how Hero 5e compares to 6e? I just noted the Bundle of Holding is for 5e.
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5e is pretty much a long winded with examples adjustment to 4e I believe. 6e breaks away a bit more.
 
Thanks for the replies Allen Varney Allen Varney and Bunch Bunch. I did a quick read about it on the Wiki and it sounds like 6 he mostly stream lined some aspects and removing link between figured characteristics derived characteristics. Meaning that if one was raised the other also went up. If I'm following that information on the Wiki.

Interesting that they lowered the power of killing attacks. I'll definitely snag the bundle, though sorry Allen,I'll have to wait until after the first on this one. Not because I can't afford it but it's end of the year and I was just going over the numbers on what I spent on gaming this year and I just noted that I more than doubled last years spending.

Luckily I do have the hobby spending money to afford my expenditures but even I was kind of shocked/surprised at how much I'd spent. Some of the Kickstarters and other deals that popped up year definitely drew my eye I like to keep my wife happy and I think she's going to be more than a bit annoyed when she notes how much I spent this year. lol.

Anyhow, long winded I'll be snagging the Bundle within the first couple days of the new year and definitely give the Side Kick a first look through. :smile: Thanks again Allen for hosting and providing Bundle of Holding. It's nice to get hands on some of the newer systems and in other cases to get pdf versions of old systems that many of us have fond memories of or always wanted to know more about.

Edit: Also and just as important, I like that a percent of the money goes towards charities that help others. It always makes it even easier to not resist and get em. :smile:
 
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Bunch said:
5e is pretty much a long winded with examples adjustment to 4e I believe. 6e breaks away a bit more.
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Yeah, there isn't a ton of difference between 4E and 5E, the vast bulk of the page difference being examples. In theory 5E should be more newbie friendly because of the examples but I don't find that it really is.
I like 5E and as a whole I think it makes one of the better versions of the game because there is so much ready to use (prep always being an issue with HERO), but the 5E core rules are not written in a particularly easy style to get through.

Personally I find the older HERO stuff far easier to comprehend. Without an experienced player to take the lead it would be much easier to get into HERO through Justice Inc, Danger International or a low magic 1E Fantasy HERO.
 
Simon Hogwood said:
I'm not overly fond of Hero as a system, but reading the descriptions of some of those Pulp Hero supplements makes me think about picking them up. Can anyone speak to how much is crunch vs fluff?
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In general the 5E source books tend to be heavy on fluff so good for use beyond HERO. I rate them only slightly behind GURPS supplements.
 
Acmegamer said:
Sometime this year, I'm going to have to force myself to just sit down with no distractions and try to read through the main core Hero book and maybe Fantasy Hero as well, where my main interest is. It actually really bothers me that it's never clicked for me over the years, no matter what edition. I've currently got all the main 6e stuff, so I have no excuse not to give it a hard try. lol.

Anyone know how Hero 5e compares to 6e? I just noted the Bundle of Holding is for 5e.
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The changes with 6E are on one level mild and on another level such that I no longer participate on the Hero discussion boards. :hehe: For all the stuff that got streamlined, there's a lot that didn't, for example, stripping the Figured Characteristics and making the Secondary Characteristics cheaper was effectively canceled by also decoupling Combat Value from Dexterity and Mental Combat Value from Ego and THEN making four separate Primary Characteristics out of them, that thus have to be bought separately. As I've said elsewhere, the result ended up satisfying neither Hero grognards nor people who couldn't get into the math of previous editions. Solution? MORE points and MORE math!
5E has some problems compared to the relatively elegant 4th Edition, but there's a ton of material for it, and this Bundle is a great opportunity to pick it up.

JG
 
Spellslinging Sellsword said:
I have Fantasy Hero 3E, 4E, 5E, and 6E. Any reason to choose one over the others?
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IMO, the 4th edition of the Hero System was the sweet spot. The first one to be released as universal but still manageable. As for Fantasy Hero specifically, the few pages on the subgenres conventions of the 4th edition one are worth the price by themselves, IMO.

Pedantic Note: the Fantasy Hero for 3E was technically the first edition of Fantasy Hero. There was no dedicated fantasy supplement for Champions I or II.
 
James Gillen said:
The changes with 6E are on one level mild and on another level such that I no longer participate on the Hero discussion boards. :hehe: For all the stuff that got streamlined, there's a lot that didn't, for example, stripping the Figured Characteristics and making the Secondary Characteristics cheaper was effectively canceled by also decoupling Combat Value from Dexterity and Mental Combat Value from Ego and THEN making four separate Primary Characteristics out of them, that thus have to be bought separately. As I've said elsewhere, the result ended up satisfying neither Hero grognards nor people who couldn't get into the math of previous editions. Solution? MORE points and MORE math!
5E has some problems compared to the relatively elegant 4th Edition, but there's a ton of material for it, and this Bundle is a great opportunity to pick it up.

JG
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The edition wars bitterness aside (of which I have much) I just find 6E is very unsatisfying. I don't find any of the changes to actually simplify or streamline the rules. Specifically decoupling the figured characteristics eliminated some of the elegance built into the system, required more system knowledge from players to design practical PCs and made the game even more susceptible to min/maxers and rules lawyers.

Spellslinging Sellsword said:
I have Fantasy Hero 3E, 4E, 5E, and 6E. Any reason to choose one over the others?
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Depends on the kind of games you are going to play. For Champions 1-5 is largely personal taste as to which rules interpretations you prefer. For heroic level games 3E (Fantasy Hero, Danger International and Justice Inc) are simpler since there is no need to deal with powers (outside of magic for FH), all three include genre appropriate special abilities ready to go at a fixed cost. Weapons and equipment are baked into the game as stats, not powers builds.

There are some aspects of both 3E and 4E that I enjoy, but 4E/5E is more of a true universal system, the different 3E games being complete games each having some genre appropriate rules changes. 4E and beyond are core rules and separate genre books format.

I think 4E has the cleanest best written rules of them all, but some of the best supplementary material for HERO came out in the 5E era, and there was far more material put out during the 5E era than any other.
Actual rules differences between 4E and 5E are minor so it is easy to blend material from them, point value changes being the most likely issues to pop up. 1E-3E have minor changes. 4E was a total rewrite with significant changes from 3E to 4E. Very minor rule changes from 4E to 5E although page count doubled largely due to extensive use of examples. 5E to 6E was another major overhaul with significant rules changes.

Luca said:
IMO, the 4th edition of the Hero System was the sweet spot. The first one to be released as universal but still manageable. As for Fantasy Hero specifically, the few pages on the subgenres conventions of the 4th edition one are worth the price by themselves, IMO.

Pedantic Note: the Fantasy Hero for 3E was technically the first edition of Fantasy Hero. There was no dedicated fantasy supplement for Champions I or II.
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As far as the core I agree 4E was probably the high point. There are definite aspects of 3E that I prefer, but 4E really brought everything together into one well polished rule set. 5E is quite wordy, in theory the examples help but in some cases the word bulk actually takes away from the clarity.

I think Espionage was the only non Supers genre game to be published before 3E and FH is the only title (other than Champions) that carried over as a genre book beyond 3E.
 
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