Can my Quickshade blunder be fixed?

under_score

Legendary Member
Joined
Aug 15, 2017
Messages
494
Reaction score
1,192
I decided to try using the Army Painter's Quickshade for my skeletons troops I'm working on. Dipped them in, shook them off best as I could (these skeletons are extremely fragile so I was a bit nervous about shaking them too aggressively), and let them sit a couple days. Unfortunately, the Quickshade pooled and clumped together too much in spaces, especially around the pelvic bones.
And of course I was an idiot and did this for the first time on a dozen miniatures, rather than trying on a single one.
Do any of you more veteran miniature enthusiasts have any suggestions for saving these?

20201118_081210.jpg
 

Nobby-W

Far more clumsy and random than a blaster
Joined
Oct 7, 2018
Messages
3,443
Reaction score
5,416
I decided to try using the Army Painter's Quickshade for my skeletons troops I'm working on. Dipped them in, shook them off best as I could (these skeletons are extremely fragile so I was a bit nervous about shaking them too aggressively), and let them sit a couple days. Unfortunately, the Quickshade pooled and clumped together too much in spaces, especially around the pelvic bones.
And of course I was an idiot and did this for the first time on a dozen miniatures, rather than trying on a single one.
Do any of you more veteran miniature enthusiasts have any suggestions for saving these?

View attachment 24272
Are they plastic or metal? If they're metal, just dunk them in paint stripper overnight and start again.
 

TristramEvans

The Right Hand of Doom
Moderator
Joined
Apr 24, 2017
Messages
16,226
Reaction score
37,517
You can paint right over quickshade. They don't look that bad, just go in with a highlight to fix them. The one thing is....are those moldlines on the tops of the heads? If so, the shade is really accentuating them. I would first off file those down.
 

under_score

Legendary Member
Joined
Aug 15, 2017
Messages
494
Reaction score
1,192
They are plastic. It's not terrible, but there are some places where it's particularly bad. Some of the pooling in the pelvic bones, and the hand on the middle rank, far right guy is a good example.
And yeah, should've filed those mold lines down.
 

Brock Savage

Cosmic Barbarian
Joined
Jun 17, 2019
Messages
1,800
Reaction score
3,619
@under_score

Paint job doesn't look bad at all; a little TLC with shading and highlighting can give impressive results. Honestly it's the mold lines you should be worried about, they are very noticeable and will only get more pronounced once you highlight or dry brush. I would seriously consider stripping the models with Simple Green and a tooth brush, filing off those mold lines and starting over. You could also file and trim the mold lines right now but that will involve a lot of touch of work- you will have to decide for yourself which is less work. I tell you this out of bitter experience as I have done the same thing myself and we all gotta learn somewhere.

When painting groups of new models I always start with one model at time until I get the results I want. I map out my technique in the most efficient manner possible and go into factory mode, painting the rest of the models together step by step. Like, the only time I paint groups of miniatures without a starter mini is for models I can paint in my sleep like Imperial Guard, rats, skeletons, and zombies
 

TristramEvans

The Right Hand of Doom
Moderator
Joined
Apr 24, 2017
Messages
16,226
Reaction score
37,517
I don't think he needs to start from scratch to get rid of thhe mold lines - just file them off and then go over the section with a bit of paint to cover it up (being plastic I don't think it's even necessary bothering with a tiny bit of brush on primer). You'll want to highlight the tops of the skull anyways.
 

Brock Savage

Cosmic Barbarian
Joined
Jun 17, 2019
Messages
1,800
Reaction score
3,619
I don't think he needs to start from scratch to get rid of thhe mold lines - just file them off and then go over the section with a bit of paint to cover it up (being plastic I don't think it's even necessary bothering with a tiny bit of brush on primer). You'll want to highlight the tops of the skull anyways.
Fair enough, you're a more experienced painter than I so I'll defer to your judgement. I just remember it happening to me and it was a huge PITA to scrape and file mold lines off a half-painted squad.
 

TristramEvans

The Right Hand of Doom
Moderator
Joined
Apr 24, 2017
Messages
16,226
Reaction score
37,517
Fair enough, you're a more experienced painter than I so I'll defer to your judgement. I just remember it happening to me and it was a huge PITA to scrape and file mold lines off a half-painted squad.
Well it depends where they are/what they are over. You say squad I imagine it was something like space marines? Yeah, any smooth or "metal" surface you want to take care of before painting or they are going to look messed up. I just figure with bone, it's fine if they look slightly potted/uneven and the obvious spots on the heads means they should be pretty easy to slice off with an exacto held at an angle.
 

Brock Savage

Cosmic Barbarian
Joined
Jun 17, 2019
Messages
1,800
Reaction score
3,619
Well it depends where they ae/what they are over. You say squad I imagine it was something like space marines? Yeah, and smooth or "metal" surface you want to take care of before painting or they are going to look messed up. I just figure with Boe, it's fine if they look slightly potted/uneven and the obvious spots on the heads means they should be pretty easy to slice off with an exacto held at an angle.
It was my first plastic squad of Imperial Guard and I didn't notice many of the mold lines on the hard surfaces until I started painting. And yeah +1 for carefully scraping mold lines with an Exacto, I did in fact use that quite a bit along with a small file. Live and learn, after painting 150 of the little bastards I know the shape and feel of those models better than my first girlfriend's body.
 

under_score

Legendary Member
Joined
Aug 15, 2017
Messages
494
Reaction score
1,192
I don't think he needs to start from scratch to get rid of thhe mold lines - just file them off and then go over the section with a bit of paint to cover it up (being plastic I don't think it's even necessary bothering with a tiny bit of brush on primer). You'll want to highlight the tops of the skull anyways.
Ok, I did just that - trimmed off the mold line over the skull, then did some drybrushing, focused on the top, and he's not so bad now. I think I could salvage this unit just doing that.
Thanks.

20201118_155346.jpg

Overall though, I'm not sure I like this Quickshade. I'll have to experiment some more, probably try brushing it on rather than dipping.
Live and learn.
 

K_Peterson

Legendary Member
Joined
May 1, 2017
Messages
995
Reaction score
1,526
Overall though, I'm not sure I like this Quickshade. I'll have to experiment some more, probably try brushing it on rather than dipping.
Live and learn.
I played around with Quickshade about 4 years ago with some Zombicide minis. Turned out decent and was a time-saver. I definitely brushed it on, though, to keep things under control.
 

TristramEvans

The Right Hand of Doom
Moderator
Joined
Apr 24, 2017
Messages
16,226
Reaction score
37,517
The Inks are fine if you want to get stuff on the table fast, but yeah, you have to keep an eye on them for pooling, even if you brush on.

But the Quickshade inks are to die for. I go through so many bottles of Quickshade Strone Tone Ink - I use it on pretty much every mini I paint
 

David Johansen

Legendary Member
Joined
May 4, 2017
Messages
2,280
Reaction score
3,044
Quickshade is pretty thick, but if they haven't dried yet, you might be able to draw it out of the recesses with a brush.
 

under_score

Legendary Member
Joined
Aug 15, 2017
Messages
494
Reaction score
1,192
Unfortunately it's been a couple days. Looking at this skeleton I tidied up, now that it's been a few hours, I still don't like it. I think I'm going to get some Simple Green and do what I can to clean these before I proceed.
 

under_score

Legendary Member
Joined
Aug 15, 2017
Messages
494
Reaction score
1,192
Are they Wargames Factory Skeletons?
Warlord Games's 'Warlords of Erehwon' line. They're ok, but the most fragile miniatures I've ever handled. Seperate pieces for feet, legs, torso, arms, head, and weapons. And of course everything is bone thin. Feels like a slight breeze would blast them apart. Part of the reason I went with the Quickshade is that it is thick and sticky and gives a bit of adhesive to it all.
 

David Johansen

Legendary Member
Joined
May 4, 2017
Messages
2,280
Reaction score
3,044
Yeah, those are the same ones, Warlord also uses some former Wargames Factory stuff in their Ancients and War of Spanish Secession line.
 

David Johansen

Legendary Member
Joined
May 4, 2017
Messages
2,280
Reaction score
3,044
A bit static, and the kneeling one was weird. There might be other plastic amazons now. I'm trying to think where I thought I saw them. Wargames Atlantic maybe? I've got a couple of the Nick Lund Fantasy Warriors Amazons by Grenadier, the only figures I have that are worse are the Etoiles Mortant from first edition Warzone.
 

Brock Savage

Cosmic Barbarian
Joined
Jun 17, 2019
Messages
1,800
Reaction score
3,619
Warlord Games's 'Warlords of Erehwon' line. They're ok, but the most fragile miniatures I've ever handled. Seperate pieces for feet, legs, torso, arms, head, and weapons. And of course everything is bone thin. Feels like a slight breeze would blast them apart. Part of the reason I went with the Quickshade is that it is thick and sticky and gives a bit of adhesive to it all.
Good sir, if you are looking for decent alternative skeletons on the cheap I suggest you take a look at the Reaper Bones line. I have bought many of the Reaper Bones skeletal and zombie models (there are multiple types of each). They get the job done for cheap. They aren't gonna win any awards but look good on the table once painted and based. If you screw up painting one they are easy to strip and start anew.

They can take a lot of abuse even when painted. My nice minis are carefully transported in padded Chessex cases but I throw the Reaper Bones in a big plano box type thing loosely sorted by type, painted minis thrown in with non painted. I found myself buying more and more of them because they were just so easy to transport and deploy.

Obviously they aren't going to match the quality of nice pewter and resin models but they are perfect for monsters. And I want to repeat they look darn good when based and painted alongside your higher quality minis.
 

TristramEvans

The Right Hand of Doom
Moderator
Joined
Apr 24, 2017
Messages
16,226
Reaction score
37,517
My personal favourite skeletons are the Triumph of Death minis by Skull & Crown, which are based on Renaissance paintings/woodcuts
 

CRKrueger

_Delete 2020 Pls
Joined
Apr 25, 2017
Messages
3,884
Reaction score
6,822
I decided to try using the Army Painter's Quickshade for my skeletons troops I'm working on. Dipped them in, shook them off best as I could (these skeletons are extremely fragile so I was a bit nervous about shaking them too aggressively), and let them sit a couple days. Unfortunately, the Quickshade pooled and clumped together too much in spaces, especially around the pelvic bones.
And of course I was an idiot and did this for the first time on a dozen miniatures, rather than trying on a single one.
Do any of you more veteran miniature enthusiasts have any suggestions for saving these?

View attachment 24272
Well you’ve learned two of the important lessons for quickshade.
1. If you’re gonna dip ‘em, you gotta flip ‘em...HARD. Like the set up a tarp in your garage, grab the mini with pliers and try not to tear a rotator cuff hard. I prefer brushing.
2. Quickshade will highlight any physical deformity on the model. Mold lines, glue splotches, cuts and gouges (it’s actually great for showing combat damage) etc.

Now you get to learn the third key lesson...
3. It’s really easy to paint over and fix.

Plus, remember. They’re skeletons. They’re supposed to look funky and covered with dirt, they just climbed out of a grave. All the pelvic shade is packed dirt.
 

TristramEvans

The Right Hand of Doom
Moderator
Joined
Apr 24, 2017
Messages
16,226
Reaction score
37,517
Ok, I did just that - trimmed off the mold line over the skull, then did some drybrushing, focused on the top, and he's not so bad now. I think I could salvage this unit just doing that.
Thanks.

View attachment 24276

Overall though, I'm not sure I like this Quickshade. I'll have to experiment some more, probably try brushing it on rather than dipping.
Live and learn.
I think, in this case, you may have overbrushed rather than drybrushed - as in you lost the shading and colouring the dip provided almost entirely, giving it a bit of an unnatural look. With drybrushing, the trick is really to have as little paint on the brush as possible - you want to be able to wipe it across your skin and see no paint come off. Then instead of drybrushing the entire model, pick a light source and only drybrush from that angle - easiest is a toplight.
 

under_score

Legendary Member
Joined
Aug 15, 2017
Messages
494
Reaction score
1,192
Well you’ve learned two of the important lessons for quickshade.
1. If you’re gonna dip ‘em, you gotta flip ‘em...HARD. Like the set up a tarp in your garage, grab the mini with pliers and try not to tear a rotator cuff hard. I prefer brushing.
2. Quickshade will highlight any physical deformity on the model. Mold lines, glue splotches, cuts and gouges (it’s actually great for showing combat damage) etc.

Now you get to learn the third key lesson...
3. It’s really easy to paint over and fix.

Plus, remember. They’re skeletons. They’re supposed to look funky and covered with dirt, they just climbed out of a grave. All the pelvic shade is packed dirt.
Yeah, I was very timid about shaking off the QuickShade. They're so damn fragile. I had one lose an arm from the primer spray. I'm definitely going to try a brush on QuickShade to see if I can get better results before giving up on this method.
And yeah, a little time spent cleaning up mold lines and such.

I think, in this case, you may have overbrushed rather than drybrushed - as in you lost the shading and colouring the dip provided almost entirely, giving it a bit of an unnatural look. With drybrushing, the trick is really to have as little paint on the brush as possible - you want to be able to wipe it across your skin and see no paint come off. Then instead of drybrushing the entire model, pick a light source and only drybrush from that angle - easiest is a toplight.
I'm not great at drybrushing. Definitely overdid it. However, I hit this guy with another wash and a lot of that detail returned.

I've got another 8 skeletons assembled and primed and figure I'm going to just use these guys to try out different techniques. The North Star line of Oathmark skeleton infantry come out next week so I'll probably end up picking up a couple boxes of those at some point. By the time I get through these 90 Erehwon skeletons I may be ok at it.
 

David Johansen

Legendary Member
Joined
May 4, 2017
Messages
2,280
Reaction score
3,044
There's bound to be someone who shrieks "HERESY" but my preferred dip is Future floor wax with a few drops of acrylic sepia ink in it. The thing is that it's nice and thin and runs into creases without leaving goop and I can control how dark it is by adding a couple more or less drops of ink. Also, you can walk on it without scuffing.

As for skeletons, I love the technical precision of Ral Partha's Fantasy Armies skeletons. But I'll confess they're as dull as dry bones whereas Triumph of Death and RAFM's Bone Warriors win on the character and style charts by a long mile. Heavy metals aren't just for breakfast any more!
 

Brock Savage

Cosmic Barbarian
Joined
Jun 17, 2019
Messages
1,800
Reaction score
3,619
There's bound to be someone who shrieks "HERESY" but my preferred dip is Future floor wax with a few drops of acrylic sepia ink in it. The thing is that it's nice and thin and runs into creases without leaving goop and I can control how dark it is by adding a couple more or less drops of ink. Also, you can walk on it without scuffing.
Not at all, way back in the late 90's and early 00's I heard this suggestion frequently. Less so nowadays
 

Psychopomp

Member
Joined
Aug 19, 2017
Messages
23
Reaction score
77
I don't use Army Painter Quickshade, as it's just repacked local-equivalent of Minwax Polyshades, which costs about $12 USD for a quart. The magic matches are Pecan = Soft Tone, Antique Walnut = Strong Tone, and Tudor Black = Dark Tone. They're not exact matches, but close enough. I actually like Antique Walnut better than Strong Tone, as it's slightly warmer and makes for much better natural materials like skin, leather, and bone.

I transfer the stuff into small glass jars, as a quart it hard to work with. I tend to use a disposable plastic spoon to transfer, then thin the stuff with spoonfuls of mineral spirits at roughly 9::1 stain::spirits. I also pour some mineral spirits into another glass jar for cleaning my brush. I always have two brushes and a shop cloth handy as well.

I ALWAYS brush this stuff on for control. The dip method might save you time on an entire army, but is messy (as mentioned above, tarps-in-the-garage messy) and physically taxing (again, as mentioned above, 'sore/torn rotator cuff' or 'jerry-rig a miniature grip for your power drill').

Since I'm usually doing this on a unit or entire skirmish force at one time, I go in even batches of 5-10 minis at a time. I paint the stuff on the first batch of minis with the first brush. This is where you save time. Slather that crap on there - no care needed. Then, slather the second batch, and once the second batch is done, go back and check the first - the dip should have settled enough to have pooled up. Use the second brush - kept clean and dry, to wick excess dip out of the pools until you're happy. Occasionally wipe the wicking brush dry on the shop cloth and, when done with removing the pools, rinse it in the mineral spirits and dry thoroughly on the shop cloth.

It takes a lot of words to describe, but the wicking step usually only takes a minute or two for an entire batch, so you can go ahead an slather the next batch, check and wick the pooling on the previous batch, etc, etc. Once you get the hang of it with batches of infantry-sized minis, you'll get a feel for how long it takes the dip to settle and pool, and you'll be better at judging if you need to do larger models all at once and wait to wick, or slather-and-wick in sections.

Anyway, that's my method. It's a little more complicated than, 'I dipped a 200 model goblin army last weekend, just in time for the tournament', but it consistantly produces quality models using a method much faster than traditional basecoat-wash-highlight-detail methods for your showcase minis. And it is absolutely how I would handle the dip on fragile, detailed minis like the Wargames Factory/Warlord skeletons.
 

Fenris-77

Legendary Member
Joined
Jul 9, 2020
Messages
1,438
Reaction score
2,315
The Inks are fine if you want to get stuff on the table fast, but yeah, you have to keep an eye on them for pooling, even if you brush on.
A little dish detergent mixed into the inks will fix that problem. Of course your minis smell like lemons or fresh apples or some shit, but they won't have ugly pooling issues. Obviously you have alternatives, but if ink is whatcha got...
 

TristramEvans

The Right Hand of Doom
Moderator
Joined
Apr 24, 2017
Messages
16,226
Reaction score
37,517
A little dish detergent mixed into the inks will fix that problem.
detergent works the same as flow improver - it breaks up viscosity. But that doesn't necessarily solve the issue of pooling, that's a matter of how much you use. Rather, it will prevent the "streaking" effect. Personally, I prefer targeted washes than doing the whole figure, but that's obviously more time consuming, so sort of defeats the purpose of dipping.
 

Fenris-77

Legendary Member
Joined
Jul 9, 2020
Messages
1,438
Reaction score
2,315
detergent works the same as flow improver - it breaks up viscosity. But that doesn't necessarily solve the issue of pooling, that's a matter of how much you use. Rather, it will prevent the "streaking" effect. Personally, I prefer targeted washes than doing the whole figure, but that's obviously more time consuming, so sort of defeats the purpose of dipping.
It won't help dipping at all, no, and I'm also a targeted wash guy. One issue with pooling with inks is that the surface tension on the pools draws the ink up out of the deepest crevasses and leaves you with that dark line and light underneath look that no one likes. That doesn't happen with soap or flow improver. I mean yeah, obviously using to much is going to suck no matter what you're using, but I used detergent for many many years with great success before other products were available.
 

TristramEvans

The Right Hand of Doom
Moderator
Joined
Apr 24, 2017
Messages
16,226
Reaction score
37,517
I've recently switched to oil washes. I'm still feeling them out, learning the tricks, but I really love the effects I can achieve with them so far.
 

Fenris-77

Legendary Member
Joined
Jul 9, 2020
Messages
1,438
Reaction score
2,315
I've recently switched to oil washes. I'm still feeling them out, learning the tricks, but I really love the effects I can achieve with them so far.
You're my hero. I can't even really paint at the mo as both spray primer and superglue are 'dangerous goods' that I can't order, but I was looking at working with some oils on my figs. I'm glad that's working out for you. I'll get to try it eventually.
 

CRKrueger

_Delete 2020 Pls
Joined
Apr 25, 2017
Messages
3,884
Reaction score
6,822
I don't use Army Painter Quickshade, as it's just repacked local-equivalent of Minwax Polyshades, which costs about $12 USD for a quart. The magic matches are Pecan = Soft Tone, Antique Walnut = Strong Tone, and Tudor Black = Dark Tone. They're not exact matches, but close enough. I actually like Antique Walnut better than Strong Tone, as it's slightly warmer and makes for much better natural materials like skin, leather, and bone.

I transfer the stuff into small glass jars, as a quart it hard to work with. I tend to use a disposable plastic spoon to transfer, then thin the stuff with spoonfuls of mineral spirits at roughly 9::1 stain::spirits. I also pour some mineral spirits into another glass jar for cleaning my brush. I always have two brushes and a shop cloth handy as well.

I ALWAYS brush this stuff on for control. The dip method might save you time on an entire army, but is messy (as mentioned above, tarps-in-the-garage messy) and physically taxing (again, as mentioned above, 'sore/torn rotator cuff' or 'jerry-rig a miniature grip for your power drill').

Since I'm usually doing this on a unit or entire skirmish force at one time, I go in even batches of 5-10 minis at a time. I paint the stuff on the first batch of minis with the first brush. This is where you save time. Slather that crap on there - no care needed. Then, slather the second batch, and once the second batch is done, go back and check the first - the dip should have settled enough to have pooled up. Use the second brush - kept clean and dry, to wick excess dip out of the pools until you're happy. Occasionally wipe the wicking brush dry on the shop cloth and, when done with removing the pools, rinse it in the mineral spirits and dry thoroughly on the shop cloth.

It takes a lot of words to describe, but the wicking step usually only takes a minute or two for an entire batch, so you can go ahead an slather the next batch, check and wick the pooling on the previous batch, etc, etc. Once you get the hang of it with batches of infantry-sized minis, you'll get a feel for how long it takes the dip to settle and pool, and you'll be better at judging if you need to do larger models all at once and wait to wick, or slather-and-wick in sections.

Anyway, that's my method. It's a little more complicated than, 'I dipped a 200 model goblin army last weekend, just in time for the tournament', but it consistantly produces quality models using a method much faster than traditional basecoat-wash-highlight-detail methods for your showcase minis. And it is absolutely how I would handle the dip on fragile, detailed minis like the Wargames Factory/Warlord skeletons.
Heh, the drill idea is a good one. My friend cut a hole in a box, then would put the mini in there on a drill and spin it for a couple seconds. No muss, no fuss.

The 2-brush method, one for slapping it down, one for wicking it up, is how I do washes as well when I’m speed washing Orks, Gobbos, Zombies, etc... the things that aren’t fashion statements. :grin:
 
Top