Can You 'Fix' a Game as a Player?

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Voros

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Okay so this question comes out of the current campaign of D&D I'm in. It started off mediocre, got a bit better when we switched from 2e to 5e but now has taken a dive.

The DM runs sessions as a endless series of colourless combat, no real attempt is made to make NPCs engaging or even interesting.

I'm not sure if he's stripping out all the rping, puzzles and traps out of the adventure he is running or if it is just poorly constructed (I'm thinking the former).

A lot of 'go here and clear out this building for the villagers' missions, and we're up to levels 8-10! Sometimes sessions screech to a halt as we shop for equipment (sometimes taking up most of the session!) or a rule has to be looked up.

The DM is a pretty sensitive type and we lost of few players so far because he was rude to one player and I think just bored the others.

Everyone in the group a friends or related by marriage, my wife and I are bored out of our minds but we're not sure what we can do as players to make the game more engaging and fun.

I broached playing CoC or something else but didn't get a bite.

So two questions, one practical: what would you do in this situation?

The other more theoretical, is it possible for players to make a GM-led game like D&D fun even with a less-than-great DM?
 
So two questions, one practical: what would you do in this situation?

The other more theoretical, is it possible for players to make a GM-led game like D&D fun even with a less-than-great DM?
Your intention of fixing the game from the player side is noble but alas that would be throwing pearls before swine. I would tell them the game isn't working for me and explain why, then offer to run an alt game to show him how it's done.
 
There's just so many good gamers out there and so many games to play. Me personally, I would either start a splinter group of the willing or just bolt.
 
Just to see what happens at the table, next time declare your pcs are going somewhere else looking for more interesting stuff to do than clean filthy monster-infested villages.

Make bold declarations like: I get the attention of the King and he is interested in our services.

(I have a feeling is the King himself actually sending you to the various villages to be cleaned... If so, run. Run away and don't look back)
 
Okay so this question comes out of the current campaign of D&D I'm in. It started off mediocre, got a bit better when we switched from 2e to 5e but now has taken a dive.

The DM runs sessions as a endless series of colourless combat, no real attempt is made to make NPCs engaging or even interesting.

I'm not sure if he's stripping out all the rping, puzzles and traps out of the adventure he is running or if it is just poorly constructed (I'm thinking the former).

A lot of 'go here and clear out this building for the villagers' missions, and we're up to levels 8-10! Sometimes sessions screech to a halt as we shop for equipment (sometimes taking up most of the session!) or a rule has to be looked up.

The DM is a pretty sensitive type and we lost of few players so far because he was rude to one player and I think just bored the others.

Everyone in the group a friends or related by marriage, my wife and I are bored out of our minds but we're not sure what we can do as players to make the game more engaging and fun.

I broached playing CoC or something else but didn't get a bite.

So two questions, one practical: what would you do in this situation?

The other more theoretical, is it possible for players to make a GM-led game like D&D fun even with a less-than-great DM?
If the players are a problem, you can help with that as a player. If the GM is the problem, unless the problem is “needs someone to help track something” there’s not much you can do. Take the GM reins yourself and show them a different experience.
 
I'd leave for many reasons. But if compelled to stay because of family, apart from volunteering to GM, I might attempt to play proactively and make the game more interesting that way... though that would depend on the specifics, and what the GM can handle.

What happens if you think of more interesting things to do (within the game) than the GM has thought of, and try to lead play in interesting directions as a PC?
 
So two questions, one practical: what would you do in this situation?
Depending on my relationship with the referee have a chat with the referee about the situation.
The other more theoretical, is it possible for players to make a GM-led game like D&D fun even with a less-than-great DM?
Sure but you need opportunity and to know your group. Which sounds like you have covered here. Think of what one would do on otherwise boring trip to a destination. Everybody like hanging out together, you have to take the trip for some reason but it otherwise very boring. So you entertain each other. But you don't do it alone, often there is enough of a leader to get things rolling and then everybody bouncing things off of each other and before you know it the trip is over.

A similar technique can work with a tabletop roleplaying session. And if you do it right it can inspire the referee as well.

I done this a handful of time even at con games where everybody is a stranger. I have to keep an eye on folks and things to make sure I am not overacting or hogging the limelight. But in general I adopt one of my "funny" voices pull out a personality I played that gets along with focus. And start ad-libbing. Basically do some of the things I do while roleplaying as a referee but as a players and with a single character my PC.

Because we are for the most part roleplaying in fictional setting, draw on your knowledge of film and tv. Think of a distinctive character that seems to brighten the group the character is in. Borrow things from that character and see how well the other members response. Adjust and eventually you will hit a combo that results in something like that trip above were everybody starts playing off one another to pass the time.

In short like many things that involves human what makes it interesting is the people. In this case your fellow party members.
 
Everyone in the group a friends or related by marriage, my wife and I are bored out of our minds but we're not sure what we can do as players to make the game more engaging and fun.
Have an honest discussion with the DM about how you two feel about the campaign? Tell him that you're unsatisfied, and that the campaign is not working out how you expected. Ask him if he's content running his campaign or if he's noticed any of these troubles.

So two questions, one practical: what would you do in this situation?
If talking with the DM about the situation didn't result in anything... then I'd tell the DM that we're not going to attend any more sessions.
The other more theoretical, is it possible for players to make a GM-led game like D&D fun even with a less-than-great DM?
Probably not without pissing off the DM. What might be an injection of fun to you, might be an annoying side-distraction for him. And as a result, he might try to steer things "back on track" in a not-subtle way.
 
No, the DM is doing what they think is fun. Sounds like the guy would be happier solitaire wargaming with an audience watching and cheering his every victory.
 
I have a group of four, and we all take turns at being GMs.
We run different campaigns, often different settings and rpgs, and it keeps things interesting

A GM runs a monthly session until an episode or story arc is done, then someone takes over and does likewise.
Then we swap back to the original game and so forth.

I am the most consistent GM, and tend to alternate with two of the other group members for the GM role, with the fourth person only occasionally running GM duties. It's pretty good, as we are not stuck in one campaign or rpg system, and also not in one GM style either.

So I recommend doing something likewise. Don't present it as a negative, just say it's like following different tv shows at the same time.
The good thing is that a GM can take a break from prep during the other GM's run and vice versa, so it works well for all parties.
 
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Not my brother, a brother-in-law. With a brother I would have told him after the first session!

Little tougher I guess (my brother in law is famously touchy) but maybe see if the wife can get the message across? That's the Yeti Spaghetti way though, which is pretty wimpy. :smile:

Maybe you can comment in a joking way that won't necessarily offend him? "Damn here go killing more monsters! Come on man, let's investigate too, my arm's getting tired."
 
I think trying to "save" the game as a player will only be interpreted as attempting to sabotage the game. I assume you've tried talking to him about it

I think the best bet would be to quit the game and be upfront and honest as to why (not having fun going rom one combat encounter to the next) but nice about it, and then offer to run a game yourself so you can show them the alternative.

If they resent you for it, well that is on their head, and I'd be forthright but kind with them about it, and wait for them to (hopefully)grow up or come to their senses.

Either way, the old maxim "no gaming is better than bad gaming" applies.
 
If you’re gonna try and GM for them, Show don’t Tell. Don’t tell them you’re dissatisfied and want to run a campaign so they see what you mean, that will never end well. Just run it and let the lightbulbs ding if they’re gonna. Either that or convince your sister to make the GM sleep on the couch until he shapes up.
 
I've certainly been in games where the players can make up for the GM's shortcomings and everyone still have a good time. It's usually in the context of a first time GMs who is very obviously a little stressed out by the whole thing and willing to accept a little help. That can creates a climate in which the players are very supportive and willing to make allowances. I've seen it also at conventions where all the players are on their best behaviour because of the occasion. Neither are really sustainable long-term.
 
It sounds like you'll lose the referee if you try to open a dialogue, but I'd still try it first. Maybe he enjoys the endless fights or it is the extent of his comfort zone (it is the most clearly ruled after all). But if you are not, you can't keep playing session after session.

Try to talk it out though. It's always a shame to leave a group, even if you're going to start you own with blackjack and hookers.
 
So two questions, one practical: what would you do in this situation?

The other more theoretical, is it possible for players to make a GM-led game like D&D fun even with a less-than-great DM?
Unfortunately the answer to both entirely depends on the DM and how open they are to constructive criticism. As a player you can deal with things like poor organisation or rules understanding by filling that role for them, but when it comes to matters like the scenario itself you're kinda stuck; all you can really do is raise your issues and see how they choose to discuss them.
 
....The other more theoretical, is it possible for players to make a GM-led game like D&D fun even with a less-than-great DM?
I don't think so either. Have a friend who runs his D&D game similarly, I mentioned things and despite him saying he wants different and when you talk to him theoretically he does, it is all run into range and execute attack/feat. Nothing changed.

He has a real penchant to script encounters/campaigns, the players will encounter x and they will do y and it will be so cool. He gets completely wrapped up in that, in his imagined plot line.

I know a few of the players love this, this is RPG to them...like if you are not running a pre-made campaign module that leads you by the nose they cannot grasp it....others are more like me and like more role playing and sand box and character development yet continue play because friends/spouse and better than nothing.

I dropped out of the game after a time, my life is too full to spend time on a game that has less freedom of interaction and story than a computer RPG. Also have a board game thing going on as well for my gaming time.

Odd thing though he played in my last fantasy campaign and loved the free form/no limits/no rails nature on the adventures, complex interacting NPCs and NPC interaction (intrigue, parley, etc.), he once asked who wrote this "module" when I described what I do he was impressed and certainly loved the game...played for 5+ years until it ended; he came in about half way, we were already about 5 years in...and...actually he would like it to start up again but lost a couple key players, my life had some major shit had to deal with (hence why I dropped off here for a few years)...then COVID. Long winded way of saying generally no luck in this even when all words are otherwise and they like the alternative.

Also not the first time have encountered this in my 40+ years of playing.
 
I don't have a solution for the game consisting of combat and not much else, other than what others have already said about talking to the DM.

As for combat itself (specifically in D&D 5e in my case), I initially found it really boring, but it became less so once I started making a point of adding a little flourish to my turns. For example, instead of just saying "I swing my great axe at the orc," I'll say something like, "I twirl my great axe in my hands, then swing at the orc as I yell 'Be nicer!' "

My PC really needs to work on his battle cries.
 
I don't have a solution for the game consisting of combat and not much else, other than what others have already said about talking to the DM.

As for combat itself (specifically in D&D 5e in my case), I initially found it really boring, but it became less so once I started making a point of adding a little flourish to my turns. For example, instead of just saying "I swing my great axe at the orc," I'll say something like, "I twirl my great axe in my hands, then swing at the orc as I yell 'Be nicer!' "

My PC really needs to work on his battle cries.
Truth. If I find myself in a bad game I amuse myself by chewing scenery.
 
I don't have a solution for the game consisting of combat and not much else, other than what others have already said about talking to the DM.

As for combat itself (specifically in D&D 5e in my case), I initially found it really boring, but it became less so once I started making a point of adding a little flourish to my turns. For example, instead of just saying "I swing my great axe at the orc," I'll say something like, "I twirl my great axe in my hands, then swing at the orc as I yell 'Be nicer!' "

My PC really needs to work on his battle cries.
:smile: I wish that was enough for me. Such combat seems to proceed at the pace and all the flexibility of an Apollo launch pre-flight check list for me; well at least when you have 6-8 PCs, which I like. It is the sameness of each round that dulls my senses, even when there is interesting terrain that could add something it is ignored or even nerfed if you try to use it...so these things seem to me very much a style of play and not necessarily rule inherent although rules can reinforce it mightily.

How about "choppy, choppy" or "By Grabthar's hammer!"
 
If they are a long lasting friend beyond mere gaming acquaintence then: brutal honesty privately aside, with an example of what sort of gaming you (and wife) would be interested in. Slather aloe onto the burn as needed afterwards. But the burn must happen for they are already building a negative reputation as multiple people voted with their feet quietly.

Cruel to be kind. A friendship should survive a critique about such low stakes -- let's pretend game -- otherwise you're not as much a friendship as a coddling feathered nest to eggshell people.

Obviously use tact first if they can take the hint (seems like they can't or won't). But do not hesitate to use the clue bat upon eggs to make the omelette. It is meaner to ghost them without constructive criticism. Honesty and open door promise of friendship is more just and loving.
 
Truth. If I find myself in a bad game I amuse myself by chewing scenery.

It's not even a bad game, in my case. I love the world the DM has created, and the NPCs she plays, and the quests the party takes, and I love interacting in-character with the other PCs. I just wasn't enjoying combat, until I started adding a little flavor. It's still my least-favorite part of the game, but I no longer actively dislike it.
 
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