Coriolis - what's the deal and should I get it?

[Bunch]

It's up on bundleofholding. Some of you seem to love it. Why? What's it like? I'm more of an OSR guy but as many of you know I have a ton of games and systems that I'm happy to work with. I don't get Fate but I also haven't worked with it much. Should I get it? Why?

 

[Allen Varney]

I always take it as a kind favor when posts that mention Bundle of Holding offers link to the offer:
Coriolis & Tales From the Loop Bundle [revived from November 2018]
Coriolis-Loop 2 [all-new companion]

These two games use the "Year Zero" dice-pool engine introduced in Free League Publishing's Mutant: Year Zero. The rules don't have much to do with Fate, nor with Old School systems. RPGgeek has a good Year Zero Engine overview.

 

[Ragr]

At the risk of posting something a little lengthy, I read Coriolis a couple of weeks ago and wrote this review elsewhere. For a TLR hit the final paragraph.

"My latest read was Coriolis, a 388 page core rulebook and setting guide. It’s lavishly illustrated throughout in that Free League blurry vague style that I’m getting a little bit tired of in all honesty - it was nice to see Vaesen take a different approach. It suits the themes though. The layout is alright, large enough font generally with the exception of the sidebars which were smaller; there were too many sidebars for me and it was a distraction at times. Typos were very few and far between.

The first 180 or so pages deal with the mechanical side of things and uses the Year Zero Engine. I’ve played a couple of games using Y0 and found the system to be solid both on paper and in practice; which is to say that it hasn’t shone but neither has it sucked, so I’m still a little ambivalent towards it. Character generation is a really simple process and if you have a good idea as to what you want to create then it should be a breeze. Having only 16 skills makes things really swift and should mean easy, broad strokes during play. Talents add a few little personal quirks to characters and again there’s not an overwhelming choice or complex paths to follow to try to get the character future proof. Resolution involves a pool of d6 based on Attribute + Skill with each 6 counting as a success. Three sixes or more result in an improved success and each skill has possible benefits listed to make things easy. Combat uses the same system but adds some complexities that probably bring the thing up to a lower, mid-crunch level. It all remains relatively simple, however. The Weapons and Equipment section contains enough diverse equipment that it’s necessary to keep a list - it’s not a gun is a gun is a gun system in that respect. There are modifiers for different types of equipment so keeping a note of that on the character sheet becomes necessary. Spaceships are dealt with in a simple, modular way and several standard examples are given. Space combat involves all pcs and looks a fairly simple and intuitive system not that far removed from Ashen Stars albeit a little more detailed - it certainly doesn’t require a calculator, although an understanding of what your individual character’s role on the ship is will be beneficial if things are to proceed swiftly. The characters start the game with a ship and can choose which type.

I found the rules side of things mostly satisfactory with a few doubts. The GM gets to use Darkness Points generated when the players call for re-rolls on their actions (Praying to the Icons) and when they use certain abilities. These can be used to benefit the npc opponents (a good thing) or to work the pcs over (a dreadful idea). To be honest if I were playing this and the GM used a DP to say that I’d lost an item, had a gun jam, or more enemies turned up, I’d be so annoyed that I’d do anything to avoid generating DPs again, which seems incredibly self-defeating. I despise the fuckover points concept and I’d certainly only use them to benefit npcs rather than use them in a way that may cause discontent. Combat uses increased successes, extra sixes, to generate additional results and I’m not a huge fan of after the result choices in other games - to be fair the number of choices is quite small which limits the possibility of analysis paralysis but one of those choices sends you to a critical hit table with commensurate delays in resolution. It doesn’t help that it’s the critical hits that enable you to take out the opposition rather than wear them down. I don’t think this is a huge problem as long as participants don’t faff about with decision making. One other thing that niggles me is pointless equipment. Here’s an example:

Water Jet; A water jet propulsion system worn as a backpack. Gives the wearer +1 Dexterity under water. Powered by a cell that lasts for two hours.

Really, who cares about this stuff. It’s a sci-fi setting, surely we can assume this sort of thing exists. All that happens with this crap is that everyone uses them, everyone gets the +1 for using them and so we might as well not have bothered. A lot of the equipment listed has this same effect and is just a waste of space. Having said that, there are some innovative listings so it’s not all bad. There are weapons listing benefits and bonuses against certain armour types and that kind of thing, so again this will depend on whether you like this and to what degree. I like it a little but not a lot and there’s a bit too much of it here for my personal tastes; there are surely more interesting things to explore in a sci-fi game than which weapon is better against whichever type of armour.

The rest of the book has all the setting details and it’s here that the Arabian Nights in space theme gets to show its worth, because in and of itself it’s a really nice concept. It’s a mixture of real life Middle Eastern culture, mixed up with classic sci-fi themes like exploration, conquest, obscure and unfathomable alien technology, competing factions and corporations etc. It has the elements here for a great setting and the game does deliver, but…….I was still quite disappointed with the 200 or so pages that made up this part of the book. With Symbaroum, another FL book by way of Jarnringen, I felt that after I’d read the corebook I had a pretty good handle on the geography, the factions, the npcs and the history and could pretty much relay it without reference to the book. Coriolis doesn’t hit that sweet spot anywhere nearly as well and it’s hard to outline why. In many respects there’s too much going on but, at the same time, not enough detail on it either. For example: There are 10 main factions listed with 2-4 pages of details on each, the problem being that after reading about them all there wasn’t enough for any of them to stand out and they begin to blend together. For me, far better to have had 5-6 factions with a little more on each to bring out the distinguishing aims, objectives and major personalities. The giant titular space station is introduced giving broad sweeping details, which are good, but then adding in some individual establishments that stick in the mind only until you’ve read about the next establishment. The core star system at the heart of the game is explained well, but again the details don’t stick because of too many tidbits. Same with the 36 other systems. For me, they should have focused on some core elements and left out the finer details until such time as you interact with them as part of the play - yes, you can argue that how can you interact with them if you don’t know they exist, but if any setting calls out for developmental supplements for the setting, or campaigns and adventure books, then it’s this one. Very little of this stuck with me and I’d have to read parts of it again when thinking about what to do with it for any gaming rather than having ideas leap to my mind, inspired by what I’d read. The setting has a religious focus as well, that reminds me a little of Fading Suns; the Nine Icons are deities that the pcs and npcs pray to for favours and these play a big part in the setting’s daily life. This part works well as the details are kept at a good level. There is a bestiary of sorts that throws a few creatures into the mix; these are natural beasts, creatures of nightmare, evolved species, created species and even a couple of direct steals from the Mythos. Whilst these seem good possibilities I’d be inclined more to focus on the human vs human conflicts.

There is a small chapter at the end that gives GM advice on running the game and setting as well as a short adventure, which seems quite good, and a couple of locales that potentially tie in to the adventure; interestingly, these both do spark ideas which shows what a sharper look at things could bring.

Overall, this is a really interesting game and setting that is begging to be explored. I don’t think this book does the setting justice, however, and I found it frustrating at times trying to navigate through the larger themes whilst being distracted by smaller details that added nothing to those themes; it was almost like looking at information through an ever shifting bi-focal lens. It is a setting I’d look at in the future for some campaign play as I don’t think a one shot visit can do it justice but I do hope they get a better balance to the writing in any expansions and campaign books."

 

[Skywalker]

As with most FL RPGs, there is an extensive quickstart available for it: https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/204702/Coriolis-The-Third-Horizon--Quickstart

I haven't had much change to delve into this one but the tag line of "1001 Arabian Nights meets Firefly" pretty much hooked me from the start.

 

[Kobayashi]

I got it when it was released because I'm a sucker for sci-fi and the tag-line "1001 Arabian Nights meets Firefly" was obviously marketing gold. It used a simplfied version of the Year Zero engine (Mutant Year Zero's system that I liked a lot)

And then I ran it, three times.... My players and I weren't happy.

_the system: it was perfext for MYZ because it was meant to bring home the idea of entropy: everything breaks down; communities, gear, weapons, characters... This is a matter of taste but I really dont think the system fits the setting, highly competent characters failed on a regular basis and the Pray to the icons routine (basically a re-roll) got old pretty fast, the ship combat system can be fun for the players but can be a nightmare for the GM (the fact that each character has a role to play during combat is fun until the GM has to do the same on his side with 5 NPCs).
But it's clearly a matter of taste you can find a lot of play reports where people have fun, so let's just say that the system didn't click with us.

_Another thing that is not a matter of taste is the fact that the tagline "1001 Arabian Nights meets Firefly" is quite misleading. That doesn't mean that the setting isn't interesting but it is as true as saying Firefly is "Qing dynasty meets Star Wars" Doing a little bit of research about the game's history I found this interesting piece on the Fria Ligan forums: 'the previous edition of the game, which did not (AFAIK) use that particular sales pitch.".

TLDR: the system doesn't work for me but YMMV, the sales pitch is misleading but the setting is quite interesting and the campaign started well. For that price it's definitely worth checking out.

 

[TJS]

Ok I'm looking through it now and it looks interesting.

My big question is whether, seeing as it's a Jarringen game like Symbaroum originally, the setting also contains big 90s style secrets that are not revealed to the GM?

 

[Skywalker]

Ok I'm looking through it now and it looks interesting.

My big question is whether, seeing as it's a Jarringen game like Symbaroum originally, the setting also contains big 90s style secrets that are not revealed to the GM?

Sort of. The big setting secret was contained in the Atlas Compendium, though this was released at the same time as the corebook. The big campaign also changes up the setting a little.

 

[TJS]

Sort of. The big setting secret was contained in the Atlas Compendium, though this was released at the same time as the corebook. The big campaign also changes up the setting a little.

So if I have the Atlas Compendium I won't have big lingering mysteries that are central to how the setting works?

 

[Bunch]

I'm not getting a hot fever to buy it. Thanks all for saving me a little cash.

 

[hawkeyefan]

The core system is solid, but I can’t comment on the setting.

I don’t know the Coriolis setting, but I’ve played two other games that use the MYZ engine....Tales From the Loop and the Alien RPG...and both of those games are excellent. The system is the same, but they do each have some rules specifc to the game that makes each feel a bit different. I’d expect Coriolis likely has some rules of its own, too.

Since it’s bundled with Tales From the Loop, this seems like a good deal overall. If you were ever gonna take the risk on it, this might be the time to do it.

 

[zcthu3]

I’ve run two ‘chapters’ of a campaign, the first being mostly home brew and the second being based on the first book of the official campaign. We’ve enjoyed the simplicity of the system and the setting and I got asked the other day when I was going to run Chapter 3 (I am tempted to wait for the third part of the official campaign), so I’d recommend it.

 

[Skywalker]

So if I have the Atlas Compendium I won't have big lingering mysteries that are central to how the setting works?

I understand that to be the case. As said, I haven’t done anything with the game yet, so I don’t know it in detail.

 

[zcthu3]

So if I have the Atlas Compendium I won't have big lingering mysteries that are central to how the setting works?

Mostly. There are still a few mysteries but the main things are explained.

 

[3rik]

Praying to the Icons to get a re-roll and generate fuckover points for the GM to use against you. This is what turned me off this game immediately.

 

[K_Peterson]

To be honest if I were playing this and the GM used a DP to say that I’d lost an item, had a gun jam, or more enemies turned up, I’d be so annoyed that I’d do anything to avoid generating DPs again, which seems incredibly self-defeating.

The only Rpg I've played so far with this kind of metacurrency mechanic is Mutant Chronicles 3E, and it brought out the same reaction in me. I felt compelled to do whatever I could to starve the GM of this resource. It didn't inspire me to play my character heroically, and as a result, 'strengthen' the GM's antagonists for later encounters. It made me want to play conservatively, cautiously, and accept failure. Probably the exact opposite of the what the game's designers intended.

I've never looked at Coriolis, but the presence of "fuckover points" would make it a hard pass for me.

 

[TJS]

It's a system artifact. I'm sure there's a way around it. Perhaps just drop it for one free re-rroll a game session or something like that.

 

[zcthu3]

The only Rpg I've played so far with this kind of metacurrency mechanic is Mutant Chronicles 3E, and it brought out the same reaction in me. I felt compelled to do whatever I could to starve the GM of this resource. It didn't inspire me to play my character heroically, and as a result, 'strengthen' the GM's antagonists for later encounters. It made me want to play conservatively, cautiously, and accept failure. Probably the exact opposite of the what the game's designers intended.

I've never looked at Coriolis, but the presence of "fuckover points" would make it a hard pass for me.

In practice, they actually prevent GMs screwing players (too much) as they place a mechanical limit on how much NPCs get to re-roll, activate mystic powers or complicate PC lives (e.g. running out of ammo) etc. Personally, if a GM is just using them with the intent to screw players, that‘s a GM issue (and IME/O they’d probably try to do it irrespective of having ‘points’).

The way I look at it is a player choosing to avoid their character having a complication now by praying to the Icons for a lucky break (or getting some mystic benefit now) in exchange for a complication later, rather than being completely at the whim of the dice. The mechanism is there to reinforce genre conceits in the same way GMs in Fate compel character aspect (and in particular that the universe is ultimately balanced, light is countered by dark, good luck is countered by bad etc).

That may not be how everyone likes their game - they may like the dice to land where they fall, which is perfectly valid - but to say they are ‘fuckover points’ is (IMO) an unfairly negative characterisation of what they are and what they do. (I also think it is somewhat unfair to characterise the Modiphius 2d20 system in the same way).

 

[Ragr]

In practice, they actually prevent GMs screwing players (too much) as they place a mechanical limit on how much NPCs get to re-roll, activate mystic powers or complicate PC lives (e.g. running out of ammo) etc. ).

I actually agree with you to a degree. There's psychology involved with this and there's a big difference in practice between giving an npc a benefit as a result of a pc choice and potentially removing a future pc choice as a result of a previous choice. To say that your gun jams, your ammo depletes or more enemies turned up than pcs had planned for is an arbitrary blocker rather than an enabler, and that's whether it's used in an intentionally fair or unfair way from the GM. Giving npcs rerolls, or opportunities to activate abilities, is a standard metacurrency in many games and it represents the stakes being raised but it doesn't directly deprive the pcs of agency, however temporary. We're used to that stuff, only the acquisition methodology has changed.

I only refer to them as fuckover points because that's the name they've earned at my group's table, which is enough to tell me there's a problem with the mechanic for our table. As usual, other folk's tables may be cool with it and I'm cool with that.

 

[TJS]

The part I don't like is the PCs getting a reroll by praying to an icon.

I guess it's supposed to to emphasise that the setting is one where everyone is some kind of a believer, but I'd prefer that to be done through in setting role-play rather than a meta-mechanic.

 

[Ragr]

Yeah. You'd hope that a player whose character frequently offered a quick prayer to a particular Icon would at some point bring in a little more input to reinforce the concept - visit a holy site, do a small favour for the church etc. Probably wouldn't happen in a one-shot but a campaign should provide enough scope.

 

[Ghost Whistler]

The part I don't like is the PCs getting a reroll by praying to an icon.

I guess it's supposed to to emphasise that the setting is one where everyone is some kind of a believer, but I'd prefer that to be done through in setting role-play rather than a meta-mechanic.

Can't you roleplay the praying aspect as well as getting the bonus?

 

[Ghost Whistler]

So for me I think the best way to sum up my feelings on Coriolis is that it promised something that it kinda wasn't, which isn't to say it's the fault of the devs. More my expectations. However the initial kickstarter video posited a really mysterious sci fi possibly sci horror middle eastern vibe. What you get is sort of that, but it suffers more from what it doesn't define than what it does. There is an eastern vibe, but it isn't Arabian Nights In Space. There is a 'darkness' but its not really defined. It just appears in the form of mild superstition and some odd creatures they call Djinn. No real, iirc, explanation. The Icons are godlike beings, but not really defined (the campaign book does, and it's disappointing). What you do get is a cool Firefly style (the working jobbers crewing a beat up spaceship taking work throughout space on behalf of factions) setting. But the mystery is sort of lacking. The art is nice, but over all what it glosses over is more interesting to me, or would have been. For example, it talks about cybernetics and psychic powers, but again really glossing over this stuff when it could have been greatly fleshed out and culturally significant. Particularly in the context of the eastern tone the setting uses. The factions are decent, some are a bit 'stock' (the evil merchants, the space nomads, the mercenaries).

I never got to play it. So how it works is another matter. I reserve the right to have remembered the game incorrectly.

 

[TJS]

Can't you roleplay the praying aspect as well as getting the bonus?

My expectation is that this would be pretty contrived.