Cyberpunk 2077 launch.

Trippy

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I do recognise that this more pertains to the video-game release, but it may possibly impact on the upcoming tabletop game too and, after all, it is based on the original tabletop IP anyway.

So…..they had a big launch for the X-Box game to be released in April next year (2020, no less), with the 'face' of the promotion being a fairly iconic Keanu Reeves. The video promotion was pretty good too, although not as striking as that music video that came out about 2012 I thought. The whole presentation is linked below:


Thoughts?
 

Chris Brady

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One of my ex-coworkers works for CD Projekt Red in their JP language department (working on localization/marketing/events stuff in Japan). She refuses to tell me anything when I ask :tongue:.
Likely because there was nothing to talk about. Back in 2012, when they hired people to work on this game, they shifted that entire team to their other project, Witcher 3, because CDPR is well known for being a mismanaged mess. Not to mention releasing really buggy messes of a game. So far it's been 3 for 3. Supposedly, they started working on this game about 7 months ago.

So, I'm putting more stock in R.Tals ability to make a new game, which after CD 3.0, I'm not really that hopeful.
 

Trippy

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So, I'm putting more stock in R.Tals ability to make a new game, which after CD 3.0, I'm not really that hopeful.
I'm guessing the art direction will be significantly improved, while the rules will be based on Interlock, not Fuzion. I'm hopeful, myself.
 

Ghost Whistler

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I'll wait for the full release, which looks very promising. By then my ps4 will probably be dead, but oh well.

I've no interest in this corporate bullshit festival though. The gaming industry is utter fucking shit
 

BlackWolf

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I have to quote @EmperorNorton , It's been in development for at least 4 - 5 years.
I don't play video games anymore, at least not AAA games after launch, I reffuse to spend my jewels on expensive hardware or overpriced games ( which is less of problem with CDPRED, they content quality has always been good). But this got me interested since I'm looking forward Cyberpunk Red so that I can maybe run my Akira inspired campaign.
 

silva

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Color me skeptic, both with the videogame (it's hard for ambitious series debuts to get it right) and the RPG (if The Witcher is any indication, these guys still live in the 80s rules-wise).
 

Chris Brady

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Having worked in the field for years, no way the game was started on 7 months ago. They couldn't even get a buggy mess of a game out that fast.
No, it hasn't. That's what makes me worried. Bear in mind that they did make several of their previous games in less than 18 months, with massive amounts of 'crunch'. In fact, the original crew they hired to work on COP2077 left the studio years ago, because they got burned out by forced to work on Witcher 3.

There are quite a few Glass Door (a business website for Employee reviews) that claim that CDPR's upper management is a mess, including the ones who felt their work experience was POSITIVE. A YouTuber named YongYea, who is a FAN and an apologist of CDPR, did a break down of the Witcher 3 and the CDPR debacle. It got so bad that CDPR had to write a statement for it, claiming 'work ethic' differences as to why they got some bad employer reviews. Yeah, they didn't deny it, they just tried to make it look like being Polish means you have a 'better' work ethic and don't mind being burnt out and crushed under unreasonable deadlines and workload. Go look it up, it's very eye opening.

Just because YOU have worked in the 'field' doesn't mean you know how all studios operate.

And one last thing, if they really DID have something, why haven't they shown actual game play? All they've done is shown us three different pieces of CGI, each with a different tone from the previous and NOTHING ELSE. If they have been working on this for seven years, they'd have had something good enough for the trade shows, because that's how you sell a game. Most customers no longer trust CGI because of bad actors like Ubisoft and Square Enix having wonderful 'slices' but not really representative of the whole game.

Then again, CDPR is the current darling of gamers, who are giving them passes because of just three games. Almost as bad as Valve...

I'm guessing the art direction will be significantly improved, while the rules will be based on Interlock, not Fuzion. I'm hopeful, myself.
That was not the problem with Cyberpunk 3.0. Yes, the presentation was bad, but the ill concieved lore and hodgepodging of the system were the real reason the game flopped.
 

Trippy

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That was not the problem with Cyberpunk 3.0. Yes, the presentation was bad, but the ill concieved lore and hodgepodging of the system were the real reason the game flopped.
Well, you'll be pleased to know it's all been retconned out with Cyberpunk Red being solely based on developments from Cyberpunk 2020. Honestly, these are not really relevant concerns for the new game, as it stands.
 

CRKrueger

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Color me skeptic, both with the videogame (it's hard for ambitious series debuts to get it right) and the RPG (if The Witcher is any indication, these guys still live in the 80s rules-wise).
You got enough Roleplaying + Storytelling games to last you ten years of reading at this point. A Roleplaying game that lets you just...Roleplay will, in 2019, be a pleasant change. :tongue:
 

CRKrueger

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All they've done is shown us three different pieces of CGI, each with a different tone from the previous and NOTHING ELSE.
Hmm, guess you missed the 45 minute video of actual gameplay...then again, knowing what you're talking about and checking facts when you decide something's become your personal nemesis isn't exactly your M.O. :fu:

Here's the gameplay demo...it's from August 27th, 2018, so a couple months before Brady says they started working on it...so, yeah. :quiet:
Think it safe to say the person full of shit isn't Emperor Norton.
 
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Séadna

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Just because YOU have worked in the 'field' doesn't mean you know how all studios operate.
Regardless of how studios operate, like @EmperorNorton I would struggle to imagine how this game is at this stage with only 7 months of work. The video from @CRKrueger shows this can't be true, but even three times that estimate is hard to believe.

Even simple aspects of the game like the interpreters for whatever scripting language the game uses (which can be specific to the game) require a year of work from a team of experts.

Then there is all the graphical code and keeping up with the latest techniques in using C++ to render games at this level (there is code running on the graphics card and the CPU that have to be individually tuned).

Unless they have hundreds of world class experts in low level graphical coding working on this around the clock with a team of expert content developers and language designers of ten times that size, it just seems impossible to me. AAA games often have code bases of similar complexity to the main statistical algorithms and root software in the LHC.
 
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Ladybird

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Unless they have hundreds of world class experts in low level graphical coding working on this around the clock with a team of expert content developers and language designers of ten times that size, it just seems impossible to me. AAA games often have code bases of similar complexity to the main statistical algorithms and root software in the LHC.
I'm QA myself - albeit for boring corporate software, rather than videogames - and I am incredibly impressed with the state games release in these days; the scope of modern games is so huge that the bugs that do escape are usually relatively minor in comparison.

Now, the industry is still hugely unhealthy, with awful amounts and expectations of crunch as just the start of that discussion, but they put out amazing work.
 

EmperorNorton

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CDPR is known for their hyper crunch time, but it isn't "make a game in 18 months" hyper crunch time, it is just hyper crunch at all times.

Games that get slapped together in 18 months don't look like Witcher 3... they end up like Anthem.

Basically: Yes, CDPR is known for being a shitty company to work in development for, but at the same time, its not 18 months. More than likely the production time on the game is going to end up at like 3-4ish years by release.

Also, the reason she won't tell me, and the reason I always ask as a joke isn't because nothing is done, its because jobs like ours have a lot of fun stipulations in our contracts that can get us major fired and possibly blacklisted from the industry, and we both know it.
 

Endless Flight

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I heard AAA video game developers are overworked, like 60+ hour weeks. Doesn’t sound healthy to me.
 

EmperorNorton

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If you ever want to read about the worst case I've ever heard of: https://kotaku.com/how-biowares-anthem-went-wrong-1833731964

The dev of Anthem sounds like a nightmare.

One former BioWare developer told me they would frequently find a private room in the office, shut the door, and just cry. “People were so angry and sad all the time,” they said. Said another: “Depression and anxiety are an epidemic within Bioware.”
“I actually cannot count the amount of ‘stress casualties’ we had on Mass Effect: Andromeda or Anthem,” said a third former BioWare developer in an email. “A ‘stress casualty’ at BioWare means someone had such a mental breakdown from the stress they’re just gone for one to three months. Some come back, some don’t.”
 

Necrozius

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All this sounds like the CG animation studio that I worked at in the early-mid 2000s.

People frequently cried, freaked out and even went on strike without union. It was not pleasant at all.

Boss was like David Brent only spiteful and mean.
 

Baulderstone

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I heard AAA video game developers are overworked, like 60+ hour weeks. Doesn’t sound healthy to me.
It's the curse of working in a "fun" business. If you aren't willing to work insane hours or work for free, there will be plenty of other people eager to replace you.

On that note, I was talking to a friend of mine that is a professional model last night. She was just contacted by a famous photographer for a shoot. She sent him her rates, and he replied that he preferred for his first shoot with a model to be a "trial shoot", meaning that he wanted her to travel a long distance to do a full days work and get nothing for it, with the photographer still getting a day's worth of photos. And of course this wealthy photographer implied that working for him for free would be a good "opportunity". She turned him down, but there is no question that another model will leap at the chance, and after that, he can find an endless string of models willing to do a "trial shoot" and not have to pay them.
 
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Raleel

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While I have no doubt that CDPR may well be shitty, that's not 7 months of product, and there is video (as provided above) to show it. 7 months ago is December, 2018.

I do not work in video games, but I do have friends who have worked in the industry for decades on AAA titles, and I have managed software projects. It is a shitty business. I almost went into it myself a couple of decades ago, and am glad I avoided it. A lot of mismanagement. Pretty much when I hear "crunch time" that's what I replace it with - mismanagement. crunch time means you didn't properly manage a schedule and overpromised or under resourced.
 

Ladybird

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It's the curse of working in a "fun" business. If you aren't willing to work insane hours or work for free, there will be plenty of other people eager to replace you.
Exactly. I doubt that Bioware and CDPR are the exception, they're just the ones that stories have leaked out about recently, but pretty much every western shop gets their "overwork" article on Kotaku at some point. And the japanese shops are no better, we just don't hear about it, or it's someone like Sakurai who tries to make a virtue of his deeply unhealthy obsessive lifestyle.

It's like with wrestling, I love games, but honestly I'd rather the people creating the stuff I love didn't have to practically kill themselves to do it.
 

Baulderstone

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Exactly. I doubt that Bioware and CDPR are the exception, they're just the ones that stories have leaked out about recently, but pretty much every western shop gets their "overwork" article on Kotaku at some point. And the japanese shops are no better, we just don't hear about it, or it's someone like Sakurai who tries to make a virtue of his deeply unhealthy obsessive lifestyle.

It's like with wrestling, I love games, but honestly I'd rather the people creating the stuff I love didn't have to practically kill themselves to do it.
Paradox is a good about not crunching, often to the anger of its customers. They always close shop in July to give everyone a break. Coincidentally, I was just in their forum for Stellaris this morning, and there was a thread where players were suggesting that if Paradox didn't have the next patch out by then, they should cancel their vacation. Of course, they schedules the latest DLC so they still have plenty of time to patch things before they go on vacation anyway, but it is never to early to for customers to be entitled asses.
 

Raleel

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Exactly. I doubt that Bioware and CDPR are the exception, they're just the ones that stories have leaked out about recently, but pretty much every western shop gets their "overwork" article on Kotaku at some point. And the japanese shops are no better, we just don't hear about it, or it's someone like Sakurai who tries to make a virtue of his deeply unhealthy obsessive lifestyle.

It's like with wrestling, I love games, but honestly I'd rather the people creating the stuff I love didn't have to practically kill themselves to do it.
they most definitely are not. I have first hand accounts, multiple companies.

perhaps somewhat cyberpunk-y, "working in a fun industry" covers a number of things. forest service, for example, i've heard "gets paid in sunsets". It points out a supply/demand challenge in the labor market.
 

Baulderstone

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they most definitely are not. I have first hand accounts, multiple companies.

perhaps somewhat cyberpunk-y, "working in a fun industry" covers a number of things. forest service, for example, i've heard "gets paid in sunsets". It points out a supply/demand challenge in the labor market.
Funny you should mention that, as one of the best friend's of the model I just mentioned is a park ranger, and she spent couple of years bouncing between short term posts with no guarantee of what would happen after before she finally landed a solid, if still dubiously paid position.
 

Raleel

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Funny you should mention that, as one of the best friend's of the model I just mentioned is a park ranger, and she spent couple of years bouncing between short term posts with no guarantee of what would happen after before she finally landed a solid, if still dubiously paid position.
Yes, if you don’t suffer (low demand) or have rare skills (low supply), your labor is a highly elastic good, and thus are subject to the job market.

I too know a park ranger who recently was placed. Father of said park ranger is none too happy about it, because he has a different measure of success, but the kid is happy, and thus I am.
 

Trippy

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The tabletop RPG will have a starter box, at least, released sooner though.
 

Chris Brady

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Hmm, guess you missed the 45 minute video of actual gameplay...then again, knowing what you're talking about and checking facts when you decide something's become your personal nemesis isn't exactly your M.O. :fu:

Here's the gameplay demo...it's from August 27th, 2018, so a couple months before Brady says they started working on it...so, yeah. :quiet:
Think it safe to say the person full of shit isn't Emperor Norton.
You DO realize that was ALPHA gameplay? And a single slice, a mission that they could make as good as possibly because that's ALL they worked on, you know like how Ubi showed Watch Dogs, or Gearbox's Colonial Marines (For those who don't know, those two games had exceedingly well polished demos, which was NOT actually representative of the finished game, with Colonial Marines being a disaster on release.) They even say that it may not be representative of the final experience. An important point you gloss over.

And I'm NOT just saying it, this was reported on by multiple sources by Youtubers in the know. Am I saying the CP2077 will be bad? No evidence has been shown, in fact, I figure in a year after release it'll be amazing. That's what their record is. They release a bug-tastic game at launch, scramble for the next few months post release to patch out all the mistakes, put out a Game of The Year version with all the bugs squashed and couple DLC's out, and it'll be awesome. I'm just worried because this is their fifth game and in a massively different style of game, and I'm not talking the setting. This is their attempt at making a GTA style game (their words) this is new territory for them.

But I get it, my little stalker. You desperately want me to be wrong, because apparently, I give meaning to your existence. Any time you think there's a 'gotcha' (and yet, you have yet to have one) out you come, there to try and bash me down to, I'm assuming your level? I'm flattered though, really.
 

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I really like Keanu Reeves, but it just came across like they wanted a token celebrity in that corperate promo. The fanfare is overshadowing the actual game. Keanu is definately worth every cent, but it's all just a bit too cheesy for me.
 
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Endless Flight

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I don''t want this Cyberpunk 2077 thread to turn into another Traveller - The Greatest Hits.

Be kind, people.
 

Sommerjon

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It's the curse of working in a "fun" business. If you aren't willing to work insane hours or work for free, there will be plenty of other people eager to replace you.

On that note, I was talking to a friend of mine that is a professional model last night. She was just contacted by a famous photographer for a shoot. She sent him her rates, and he replied that he preferred for his first shoot with a model to be a "trial shoot", meaning that he wanted her to travel a long distance to do a full days work and get nothing for it, with the photographer still getting a day's worth of photos. And of course this wealthy photographer implied that working for him for free would be a good "opportunity". She turned him down, but there is no question that another model will leap at the chance, and after that, he can find an endless string of models willing to do a "trial shoot" and not have to pay them.
I hear this a lot in the more 'arty' scene.

I also know more not working in my area arty folks than any other area of folks.
 

Ladybird

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You DO realize that was ALPHA gameplay? And a single slice, a mission that they could make as good as possibly because that's ALL they worked on, you know like how Ubi showed Watch Dogs, or Gearbox's Colonial Marines (For those who don't know, those two games had exceedingly well polished demos, which was NOT actually representative of the finished game, with Colonial Marines being a disaster on release.) They even say that it may not be representative of the final experience. An important point you gloss over.
You're right about this being a narrowly-designed portion of the game, but sending a limited and polished section of game to a conference is standard, rather than bringing along the current dev build (Which will, in all likelihood, suck - a lot of software products tend to be in a very poor state until near release when a lot of stuff has been locked down). The conference build will likely have branched off the main build a while before the conference and been worked on by a dedicated team, to get it into a displayable state. This is just... standard behaviour, really.

Obviously, take all this into consideration when setting your current hype levels - NEVER PREORDER BOTTOM TEXT - but it isn't enough to really set alarm bells ringing at this stage, there's no reason to assume they're doing anything particularly dodgy or unusual.
 

Séadna

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You DO realize that was ALPHA gameplay?
As @Ladybird mentions above it is and it's not really unusual at all for games to have a conference build.

Also however a conference build is ALPHA in terms of content and game logic (i.e. the part of the game that deals with quests and linking character models to their speech and existence as narrative entities). That content and scripting require a mostly functional game engine in which to execute. A game engine executing something that looks like that ALPHA requires at least 2-3 years of work.

Even if it is a narrowly focused snapshot of the game curated for a conference (which it undoubtedly is) the snapshot itself cannot function without significant engine development preceding it.
 

CRKrueger

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You desperately want me to be wrong, because apparently, I give meaning to your existence.
Idiot.
The 45 minute gameplay demo showing higher-level cyberware effects was published three months before your ignorant ass said they started working on it.

Three months before.

You got caught making an idiot out of yourself because you don't like CD Project Red for whatever reason. I'm sure we'll keep hearing all about other stuff you're going to throw up in some pathetic attempt at a smokescreen, when there's really only two things anyone needs to know.

  1. According to you, CDPR started working on CP2077 7 months ago.
  2. They released a 45min video showing a playable demo 10 months ago.

Buh-Bye.
 

Mankcam

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Is there something about the Cyberpunk genre that makes people aggro?

I didn't even mention Shadowrun this time…..oh…oops...
I dare you to mention another cyberpunk game, 'Interface Zero' (Fate Core Edition)

Go on Trippy, I dare ya!
heh heh :grin:
 

Raleel

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one thing I noticed from what we've seen is that hacking is essentially wireless and can go after cybernetics. this should be pretty easy to model in whatever game. I think I may end up appropriating some custom folk magic for mythras to do this. single skill, limited scope, etc.
 

Baulderstone

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We try to be easy-going with the moderation here, but people really need to ease up on personal insults. Also, let's not drag drama you have had with other people in the past over to this forum. EF has already dropped by this thread to ask people to chill out. If just talking to people isn't working, we are going to have to resort to using mod tools, and I don't think anyone wants that.
 
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