Cyberpunk 2077 launch.

Bashere

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Or they're riffing off the plotline where Alt used Soulkiller 2.0 to pull Johnnie into the Net as a digital person.
Well, yes, that is something I mentioned though not that specifically.
 

tenbones

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Or they're riffing off the plotline where Alt used Soulkiller 2.0 to pull Johnnie into the Net as a digital person.
Seems probable. Thought Silverhand as a disembodied AI Rockerboy seems... kinda funny.
 

Baulderstone

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With Imperator they bumped up the mod friendliness.
That is what had me thinking about it. CK2 is now the only GSG game still running on the older version of Clausewitz Engine too, so bringing out a new version has to at least be in the back of their mind.
 

Gabriel

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Out of curiosity...

Would anyone like to see a gimmick review of Cyberpunk 4e where the gimmick is that it's accompanied by a framing story where dolls review the game?
 

Ladybird

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Out of curiosity...

Would anyone like to see a gimmick review of Cyberpunk 4e where the gimmick is that it's accompanied by a framing story where dolls review the game?
I'm going to go out on a limb and say that I don't think doll art is inherently a bad idea, I think it just wasn't well executed.
 

robertsconley

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That is what had me thinking about it. CK2 is now the only GSG game still running on the older version of Clausewitz Engine too, so bringing out a new version has to at least be in the back of their mind.
I realize this may be a pun, but given all the DLC for it they may have a peasant revolt on their hand. CK2 has a lot of playability and nuance right now. Which is Imperator, Achilles heel right now (yeah another pun). Because Imperator feels rather bland compared to CK2.

Still I like some of the mechanics in Imperator. There are blank area in the maps that can be brought into play through colonization. Plus barbarians hordes spawn out of the wilderness which is nice. The religion system has potential.
 

Baulderstone

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I realize this may be a pun, but given all the DLC for it they may have a peasant revolt on their hand. CK2 has a lot of playability and nuance right now. Which is Imperator, Achilles heel right now (yeah another pun). Because Imperator feels rather bland compared to CK2.
It's a complicated situation. CK2 is still a very good game, even if it does have some limitations in being tied to an older version of the engine. A new version of CK would have to bring a lot of the mechanics and event content into the base game to avoid feeling like a step backwards in some ways. In any case, I doubt a new version of CK would begin as empty as Imperator.

Still I like some of the mechanics in Imperator. There are blank area in the maps that can be brought into play through colonization. Plus barbarians hordes spawn out of the wilderness which is nice. The religion system has potential.
I'm waiting for the first big update to try it. It seems like it will take it more in the direction of CK2. I think the original release was a little too geared towards big multiplayer games, but few of their customers in the real worlds are ever lucky enough to get to play those.

I'm also going to stick to playing Rome and the Successor States for now. While you can play any country in a GSG, it's best to stick to wait until they have gotten some polish.
 

silva

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With Imperator they bumped up the mod friendliness.
Is Imperator focused on characters like in CK2 or more grand-strategy as Europa Universalis? I admit I don't care much for the later.

By the way, another interesting series that's more or less character-focused is Nobunaga Ambition and Romance of the Three Kingdoms. I'm playing NA: Sphere of Influence right now and it's pretty good.
 

Baulderstone

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Is Imperator focused on characters like in CK2 or more grand-strategy as Europa Universalis? I admit I don't care much for the later.

By the way, another interesting series that's more or less character-focused is Nobunaga Ambition and Romance of the Three Kingdoms. I'm playing NA: Sphere of Influence right now and it's pretty good.
It's somewhere between. You are technically playing a country, like in EU, but you do have a full-fledged cast of individuals pursuing their own agendas within that country like in CK2.

The first big free update is doing a lot to flesh out the interactions between individuals as well as give more concrete mechanics for their holdings. That's the main thing I am waiting for before giving the game a try.
 

Endless Flight

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I had no idea that had a sequel, and you will get no thanks from me for being the one to inform me.
Lawnmower Man 2: Job's War has a robust Rotten Tomatoes score of 11%.

I can't even imagine how bad it is considering the original wasn't very good either. When I think of Pierce Brosnan's career, it isn't the first thing to pop in my mind.
 

Endless Flight

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Quick, get back to talking about Cyberpunk 2077. This Lawnmower Man talk is mowing away my brain cells.
 

Raleel

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i'm bracing for all of the discussion of cp2020 and cp2013 and other cyberpunk rpgs that is going to come now
 

robertsconley

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Is Imperator focused on characters like in CK2 or more grand-strategy as Europa Universalis? I admit I don't care much for the later.

By the way, another interesting series that's more or less character-focused is Nobunaga Ambition and Romance of the Three Kingdoms. I'm playing NA: Sphere of Influence right now and it's pretty good.
It sits in between the two. There are defined characters that needs to be managed but you are NOT the characters. It due to the different forms of government represented. For monarchies it echoes CK2. For republics and oligarchies you have multiple competing families to manage.
 

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2013 had some great stuff. And a really bad combat system.
How so? It's been a while since I read Friday Night Firefight, but my recollection was that aside from the wounding system the combat engine was the same: static difficulty for ranged attacks, opposed rolls for melee attacks.

The wounding system in 2013 is pretty wonky.
 

Stevethulhu

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How so? It's been a while since I read Friday Night Firefight, but my recollection was that aside from the wounding system the combat engine was the same: static difficulty for ranged attacks, opposed rolls for melee attacks.

The wounding system in 2013 is pretty wonky.
The variable damage by weapon calibre and by range band is really bad. As is the wounding system, the combat round phases and the ton of fiddly +1 or +2 modifiers every roll gets.
 

Gabriel

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The variable damage by weapon calibre and by range band is really bad. As is the wounding system, the combat round phases and the ton of fiddly +1 or +2 modifiers every roll gets.
Now that you mention it, I recall the action phases thing. I grafted that into Mekton II once upon a time.

But CP2013 is, like you say, has some great stuff. It's just mixed in with bad ideas or the good ideas are kind of half baked.

Personally, I feel the general lifepath idea of initial skill generation in 2013 is better than the pure point driven system in 2020. It's just that it isn't particularly well thought out. The way you generate skills for Professionals/Veterans in Mekton Z is a more refined idea along the same lines.

After playing and running some isolated netruns in both 2013 and 2020, I'd also say the 2013 defense frame flowchart concept works better than the crossword puzzle style in 2020. When running the crossworld style I always had issues of what could be seen and where virtual realities applied. The rules stated virtual realities only existed in MUs, but the descriptive text often seemed to state that virtual realities filled the entire datafortress. With defense frames, you could see what was in your current frame, and presumably that frame could have any kind of presentation desired. Stuff like that.
 

Stevethulhu

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Now that you mention it, I recall the action phases thing. I grafted that into Mekton II once upon a time.

But CP2013 is, like you say, has some great stuff. It's just mixed in with bad ideas or the good ideas are kind of half baked.

Personally, I feel the general lifepath idea of initial skill generation in 2013 is better than the pure point driven system in 2020. It's just that it isn't particularly well thought out. The way you generate skills for Professionals/Veterans in Mekton Z is a more refined idea along the same lines.

After playing and running some isolated netruns in both 2013 and 2020, I'd also say the 2013 defense frame flowchart concept works better than the crossword puzzle style in 2020. When running the crossworld style I always had issues of what could be seen and where virtual realities applied. The rules stated virtual realities only existed in MUs, but the descriptive text often seemed to state that virtual realities filled the entire datafortress. With defense frames, you could see what was in your current frame, and presumably that frame could have any kind of presentation desired. Stuff like that.
I wouldn't be averse to tweaking the lifepath system in 2013, then grafting it on to 2020 style combat. Which I would also season with a few things from Interlock Unlimited, which is a rather good clone/update of 2020. A bit cluttered in some ways, but some really good ideas in there.
 

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For those of you that don't follow videogames news, it was E3 this week - the big US trade show - and there was more Cyberpunk on display. Here's [LINK DELETED - politics] on the closed-doors video demo they were shown.
 
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Raleel

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I think there is a very good discussion to be had about race, inequality, and cyberpunk in the genre. I don't think the pub is really the place for it, but it's worthy to have in the right spot.
 

Edgewise

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Cyberpunk 2020 was never very good with characterization - a lot of cyberpunk games, in my experience, lean heavily on all kinds of cliches and stereotypes. The weak combat is more surprising. I'm tired of amazing graphics laid on top of mindless rote gameplay.
I think there is a very good discussion to be had about race, inequality, and cyberpunk in the genre. I don't think the pub is really the place for it, but it's worthy to have in the right spot.
I totally agree, but it's disappointing that any conversation of identity has to be so political. These days, everything is always suspect to one side, and nothing is ever suspect to the other. The absolute lack of common ground and the knee jerk responses make for an impossible topic. If things keep going this way, "politics" is going to swallow up everything - we can barely discuss the weather as it is.
 

Raleel

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I totally agree, but it's disappointing that any conversation of identity has to be so political. These days, everything is always suspect to one side, and nothing is ever suspect to the other.
Indeed. And interestingly, I think that a computer game would actually be a neat way to start that discussion. Roleplaying games are a great medium for this, though the subject matter is pretty heavy stuff. I do know some folks use it as a mechanism to gain that understanding. I feel I'm already understanding enough that it's like cutting one's self just to feel, but I can respect it.

I was reading CP2020's Home of the Brave this morning, and had to put it down after a few pages because it was more disturbing than I wanted at 5am. Not long after, an article popped up on my phone that was so dystopian that I was reminded of what I had just read - it would have fit right in with that past image of the future.
 
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