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Dammit Victor

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So, I have been occupying myself recently with the idea of a Humanity Fuck Yeah / Heavy Metal styled space fantasy. Action sci-fi, occult horror, biblical angels, DOOM meets Star Wars kinda affair. Gotta admit, I find myself loving the idea of this stuff more than I love actually consuming it, and it's not really within my wheelhouse as an artist.

So, recently, my girlfriend has suggested to me that it's time for someone to run the next game, and it's my turn, and she's vetoed my way cool Terminator premise-- so I figured I'd resort to my default settings with a "custom spheres" Spelljammer game using a combination of Classic and Advanced rules. Of course, this involves inventing a bunch of new inter-sphere cultural bullshit to replace the Radiant Triangle's religions and shared Great Wheel cosmology.

So... you know, I never actually played Phantasy Star? Well, until the last couple of months. I finished it last week.

So-- this schtick is getting old, but I started thinking about using d20 Future to make a D&D game like Phantasy Star, and I started looking at combining elements of Spelljammer and Dragonstar and then, I started wondering about other (title drop) D&D-adjacent space fantasies. So, (dammit), I also had Starjammer and Starfinder in my library, and I picked up Aethera and Arcforge.

All of this is a very long way of explaining how I got here:



I'm designing my own D&D-adjacent space fantasy game using d20 rules-- a dumbed-down, mashed-up version of the PF1 and d20 Modern rules:
  • Feat-based Gestalt multiclassing, a la Tipsy Tabby.
  • Eliminate feat taxes and consolidate feats-- at the same time, few/none bonus feats. Simplified class features. Slot-based skills system.
  • Greatly reduced bonus stacking.
  • Arcane, divine, primal, and ki/psychic as sources of magic. Cosmology is built around this. Psychic magic is easy to access, but limited.
  • Aliens are D&D fantasy races, sometimes combined or given sci-fi facelifts. Race-as-Class, with multiclassing as above.
  • Multiple co-existing (and/or rival) religious systems built around not giving me the fucking heebie-jeebies.
I've got to go to sleep now-- there will be more on this after I wake up. Nipa Hut's special this week is Filipino-style Spaghetti, so I've got to see how the pros do it.
 
I adore Phantasy Star. (Although the best iteration for ME was Phantasy Star Universe, make your own character, level up, change class as you reached requirements, change again if you wanted.) Lots of cool weapons--only slightly bland magic.
 
Stars Without Number is my go-to base Sci-Fi system at this point. With the possible exception of something specifically Spelljammer-y, where I might use a different OSR rules set (maybe).
 
So, I am a little late...

Mechanics

Class selection (minus aliens) is going to be pretty standard 3.PF D&D: pretty standard Cleric, Fighter, and Mage; combined Ranger/Ninja; psionic Monk, Kineticist, and Telepath; a toned-down Druid; Paladin; and something along the lines of the PF Witch and/or D&D Warlock. Sorcerer's a special kind of secondary-only class (see below), and Pilot/Mechanist/Diplomat and the like are maybe just skill feats that aren't dependent on class.

I might subdivide Cleric, like I'm subdividing Sorcerer, if I can justify it in-universe.

Alien classes include: Elf (soulknife/witch); Dwarf and Gnome; Dromite (halfling bard/kineticist); Kobold; at least Hobgoblin, possibly Goblin and Bugbear; Orc; Lizardfolk;

Thinking.... I probably want to use the d20 Modern (/Future) mechanics for firearms and energy weapons, and some combination of class defense bonus, plus Armor = AC, plus Armor = DR (and some of the other Star Wars Saga armor bonuses).

Spellcasting for all "power sources" is 5e-style, but psychic powers are more feat-driven and rely on ki pools more than spell slots. (Likewise, easier to get into for any class without multiclassing.)

Setting

I started this by trying to lean on Dragonstar to fill out a Spelljammer campaign in which-- as is my wont-- I'd removed the primary Spheres of the Radiant Triangle.

I'm still trying to come up with the general political and economic systems of the Known Space of this setting. Whatever the overall system is... it has to allow for the Imperial Elven Navy to maintain a significant presence throughout most of it, and likewise, I'm reimagining the Dragon Clans of Dragonstar as the most powerful mercantile houses in the galaxy.

I'm torn on detailing a cosmology-- I want this game to be about outer space, not the planes. On the other hand, I also want to establish that the Elves and the goblins sharing a prehistoric origin in and modern connection to the Feywild, the Shadowfell, and the Far Realms.

The Elves and the Dragons (at least) have been genetically modifying humanoids for tens of thousands of years as part of their various schemes against each other, and their general stance of sci-fi villainy. This is the origin of Sorcerers. (None of these things can interbreed, obviously.) The Fey/Aberration Sorcerer uses a different class spell list than the Draconic Sorcerer, and likewise any other contestants in the genetic lottery would be using a different class spell list and set of bloodlines.

The Church (the church, the one that sponsors all the Clerics and Paladins) is going to be some kind of Anime Catholicism with a Crystal Dragon Jesus. I don't want to drag a bunch of angels into the setting, but I figure Clerics sort of... direct their worship to an angel that determines their Domains and the like, but everyone's part of the same big, happy monolithic institution that supports the Greater Good. The Church is less corrupt than most real-life churches, but more so than most fictional "good guy" churches.

Dragon-worship is another major religion, one source of Druids and a legitimate way to justify multiclassing into Sorcerer.

I'm trying to decide whether Spelljammer's The Path and the Way is a third religion, here, or simply a facet of the CDJ in the first religion.

Alienist cults exist. I'm not sure how I want to represent them mechanically. They're actually not all horrific, virgin-sacrificing monsters, but they are all weird as shit and corrosive to the lawful authority of the lawful authorities.
 
A note about Feats: my current design involves giving out feats at the same rate PF1 does, one every character level, minus class bonus feats. At the same time, I'm examining other designers' attempts to cut the fat out of these rules, eliminating feat taxes and combining too-similar feats.

I'm also looking at drastically reducing the number of class features each class gets "for free", and instead allowing characters to purchase these class abilities (and alternate class abilities) with feats.

Multiclassing is a Tipsy Tabby affair: your class at 1st level is your primary class and it always will be; you can select a secondary class and take a feat that locks it in, and then you buy aspects of that class (up to partial Gestalt) with further feats. Secondary classes don't advance their class features, especially spellcasting, as quickly.

Aliens are restricted in which secondary classes they can select. I'm thinking that humans might have a unique racial ability to select a tertiary class, which is even more limited.
 
I'm almost sold on the idea of using Vagabonds of Dyfed as my base for Spelljammer, mostly because it does away with classes entirely and characters just select abilities off a master list.

Dammit Victor Dammit Viktor - that obviously wouldn't work for your project though.
 
Sure wouldn't mind comparing notes, though.
Sure, any time. I have a somewhat different starting point than some spelljammer projects. I decided to use gates rather than long inter-location voyages across the Astral or whatever. I have ideas and even some documents for that, plus some stuff about ships and a random collection of other notions. Much of it is notional at this point rather than developed. Happy to compare and chat though.
 
I'm linking a couple of docs here that represent almost all the writing I have for my Planejammer setting that aren't still on post-it's and napkin backs. This is still system agnostic (by design) but the list of systems I had in mind to actually run it are B/X, Black Hack, Troika, and Skycrawl.

Nexus Points:
Ships of the Line:
 
It's been a month since I updated this. And, related, it's been a month. But I have made some small measure of progress, and I am excited to share it with you.

Mechanics:
  • I have been forced to concede the noble struggle for species-as-class here, which means I'm probably also going to follow suit in Shroompunk. I will be keeping the-- sadly lesser-- AD&D-style racial class restrictions and I will fight to my dying breath to keep them. But... also... probably put in a sidebar saying it doesn't really matter and if my class restrictions don't fit their vision of my setting, they can do whatever they want. It's fine. Just go. :cry:
  • That frees me up to do multiclassing 4e style: you take two hobbled versions of core classes and awkwardly glue them together, with the option to use your "class expansion" widget slots to buy back your basic class features.
  • Pretty basic d20 System, level goes up to 36, level bonuses and widget slots are based on X/6 or X/12 level clocks: Proficiencies are 3/6, Talents are 2/6, Edges are 1/6. Ability score infl-- increases are linked to Talent and Edge selection; Talents are "+1 to the lesser of X or Y", Edges are "+1 to X and Y". Maybe there's a biggerwidget on twelves.
    • Widgets:
    • Proficiency: Skill slots, +2/+2 skill feats, weapon/armor proficiencies, weak PF feats in general
    • Talents: Strong PF feats, Skill Focus/Unlock, minor class features (like rogue talents), expanded species features
    • Edges: Major class features, 5e Feats
    • ???: subrace/subclass, prestige class, paragon path
  • I am going to do an thing with ability scores, expanding the number of them and attaching two mods to any ability check.
  • Combat is going to be heavily inspired by d20 Modern with the firearms and MDT rules. Armor reduces damage and grants bonus to damage saves. Condition Track from Star Wars Saga.
  • Reduced hit point bloat (smaller HD, no CON) with 4e/5e (mostly 4e, but using Hit Dice) healing. Magical healing requires someone to spend Hit Dice.
Classes:
  • Classes are not categorized into role or power source, but classes (or characters) drawing from the same power source have some overlap.
  • Using a very rough form of AEDU based on cantrips/reserve feats, martial initiation/ki pool, and spell slots. Spell slots augment like 5e.
  • Every class has some degree of access to martial and psychic abilities, and subclass-level access to multiple power sources.
  • Technique: I am still considering how many separate classes I actually want Fighter/Ranger/Rogue to be. All Technique classes have a lot of skill slots. Technician is STEM skillmonkey; Diplomat is social skillmonkey.
  • Psychic: All Psychics are Med BAB, Med caster, Med skill; psychic classes all crossover very easily. Ardents are Monks and Psychic Warriors. Benders are kineticists. Espers are telepaths and seers.
  • Arcane: Arcane casters have spellbooks, ritual casting. Want to fold in Witch and Warlock class features, also want to break up access to the SRD Wizard list.
  • Divine: Clerics are white mages, priests of The Church; Clerics of the Church have Domain access based on their religious order and angelic patron, which means basically nick one off the list or make something up and convince your Referee. Paladins are Jedi Templars with radiant soul blades. Warlocks are crazed, fiend-worshiping cultists who act as both priest and knight for their patrons.
  • Primal: Animal companions and wild shape aren't terribly convenient powers on a spaceship, so Druids focus more on their spellcasting. Most Druids in the Commonwealth are the endowed agents of elder dragons... but the forces of nature are one thing the Dragon Houses don't have a monopoly on.
  • Sorcerer: Special case. Sorcerers aren't the product of intermingled bloodlines, but rather deliberate thaumogenetic tampering by the Elder Folk: eladrin (fey/aberration), dragons, genies, celestials (angels and fiends), etc. Orc sorcerers are a special kind of special.
Species:
  • As a general rule, I want species to be substantially different from each other both narratively and mechanically, from 1st level through 36th. They should grant abilities that are relevant from 1st level thorugh 36th, and continue granting abilities after 1st.
  • I want to base most (if not all) of the playable species on existing D&D races, but with sci-fi twists. My starting approach has been to take the 3.X PHB races and the most common humanoids and combine them with something else to get a unique space fantasy alien.
  • Humans get bonus widgets; among other things, this means their secondary/tertiary ability scores will be higher than an alien's.
  • Eladrin: These are a combination of elf and elan (XPH), with oblong pointy skulls and long, expressive ears. They produce soul blades as a species ability, and must be multiclassed as (ninja)/(casters). They may not advance in any divine class because they are biologically incapable of the act of worship, and they are rarely druids because the dragons fucking hate them.
  • Dvergr: As the name implies, these are dwarves combined with the Motavians of Phantasy Star. They're tough, stubborn, and bloody-minded; like Athasian dwarves, dvergr have an obsessive Focus with completing some task, and a dverg who dies with his Focus unfinished-- or owing a substantial debt of honor-- might return as an undead revenant until it is completed. They cannot see visible light, but they can see in the ultraviolet spectrum and "feel" gravity to an uncannily precise degree. Dvergr lean toward martial and technical classes and avoid non-divine magic.
  • Dromite: The XPH dromite race combined with gnomes. They're a eusocial species and the majority of dromites are gender-netural. Dromites are friendly, sociable, and helpful and gain bonuses when taking (or receiving) support actions. Dromites must advance in a psychic class, and are restricted from martial classes.
  • Gremlin: Feral predatory halflings combined with innocent, childlike halflings combined with goblins. Brilliant engineers, even more brilliant saboteurs.
  • Hobgoblin: Hobgoblins plus ogre magi. Seven skin tones like they ordered their Pride flags on Wish.com. Elegant oryx horns. Militant culture. Shadow magic. Can roll Stealth checks versus divination magic.
  • Rana: Taken straight from DSP's PF, Rana are a hybrid of Lizardfolk and Ophiduan (psychic snake people); Rana are ruthless and pragmatic, but their cold-blooded moral calculus points them in a goodly direction more often than not-- over a long enough timespan, peace and justice always maximize "personal" utility. The iconic Rana would be a combination of Spock and Riddick. Rana favor intellectual, psychic, and arcane classes.
  • Pending: Orcs & drow (connected); sesheyan; some legal stand-in for thri-kreen/xixchil; some kind of psychic octopus people;
My artist has been working on the eladrin for me:
received_503415804697602.jpeg

And for those of you unfamiliar with Phantasy Star, this is what a Motavian looks like. Give him more of a full mane, and a luxurious beard around his beak, and that's what I have in mind for dverg.
1650947885498.png
 
Neat! I'm with you on reducing bonus stacking and cutting back on feats.

A long time ago, I did up an sf game set at the end of time with a D&D based system. I think it's long lost, many hard drives ago. I had put it up on therpgsite but I couldn't find it with search. Most of it was pretty normal but I had a list of time spells I regret losing. I've done elves and dwarves in space a couple times as I've fiddled with a 40k alternative/rebuttal type thing.

On the other hand I think I'm pretty much done with D&D variants mechanically. I can never get past the stat bonuses. I just don't like the things. I like every point to count I guess. For Dark Passages second edition I divided the bonuses between Action and Result bonuses and alternated them point by point giving an effect similar to the AD&D charts where damage bonuses go up faster than to hit bonuses and AC adjustments go up faster than missile to hit bonuses. People found it to fiddly and whined. Really that's the story of my life when it comes to playtesting.
 
Some very neat ideas in here.

On the bonus stacking thing. The last time I ran a D20 game, I removed all the fiddly bonus types and let everything stack. The catch was, that the maximum bonus you could ever get was +10. No matter how many you stacked.
Attribute scores could only have one extra bonus too. So you couldn't have both a magical item and a spell bonus to an attribute. Use whichever is higher.
It should be noted, that I heavily restricted which books the players could pick character options from. Even then, this change was a bit overpowered.
 
This is what I use for my space fantasy base, with a few other things mashed in. Maybe it'll help. I do love a space fantasy game, and think it's an under-served sub-genre.

 
This is what I use for my space fantasy base, with a few other things mashed in. Maybe it'll help. I do love a space fantasy game, and think it's an under-served sub-genre.


I'm a huge fan, but I'm specifically trying to do a D&D thing here. Thanks for reminding me to go back for POD, though. :smile:
 
Grinding to a halt-- need a working title before I continue.

How does "Sagas of the Galaxy Rangers" grab people?
 
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