Raleel

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Specialization used to affect spell availability. Now that it doesn't almost everyone goes for the one subclass with the biggest extras. I'm surprised it isn't more unbalanced.
yep, i am as well. Obviously, I am unhappy with the 5e wizard design, but I think I've already ranted once in this thread about it.
 

Fenris-77

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Any hot takes on the newly announced Candlekeep book? I think it looks cool. I like short adventures, I like the mystery focus, and I really like Candlekeep as a location for use in most fantasy setting.
 

Stan

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Any hot takes on the newly announced Candlekeep book? I think it looks cool. I like short adventures, I like the mystery focus, and I really like Candlekeep as a location for use in most fantasy setting.
Same. Hopefully they'll throw in a bit general mystery tools as well. I mean they could fuck it up but I like the premise of a bunch of adventures to choose from rather than an another adventure path book.
 

Trippy

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yep, i am as well. Obviously, I am unhappy with the 5e wizard design, but I think I've already ranted once in this thread about it.
What don’t you like about it?

For me, there are a few issues I have with each of the core magic Classes - the Sorcerer, the Warlock and the Wizard.

In the case of the Wizard and the Sorcerer, I wish they had ruled that Sorcerers exclusively alone get spontaneous casting (the ability to switch slots between prepared spells), while Wizards had to declare which spells they were preparing and stick to them. It would make Wizards a little more challenging to play, but I actually like the Vancian idea of having to spend time to consider which spells to prepare in time.

I would have then given Wizards the abilities at various higher levels to prepare scrolls, potions, wands and other magical items - exclusively to Wizards - which would be worth it because it would compliment the need for variety against the prepared spells. To me this seems a bit redundant when you have spontaneous casting already.

In the case of Warlocks, my major beef was that they would have been better having Intelligence as the core Ability - so they can be based around research ancient artifacts and pacts like Faust or a Lovecraftan caster. I’d have also tweaked some of the Pacts at 3rd level too - giving Pact of the Blade proficiency with medium armour for example - I though the Hexblade was totally unbalanced though.
 

Raleel

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What don’t you like about it?

Short of it
  • They ground all of the gaps and hard edges out of the spells. they are extremely constrained in scope. I understand why, but it also just drove the wonder out of the class.
  • most of the spells are duplicated in other classes. Some of them nearly get the full set. This makes them really not important. You have to have a lot of changing situations for the wizard's flexibility to come up
  • the flexibility of a wizard requires GM intervention. He needs to be tossing out scrolls to copy every other game (quite literally) for it to be valuable. Otherwise, you can do it with other classes, and get subclass powers that help in other ways.
  • countering that is that most of the spells are not very useful, or rather, some are incredibly useful that they become must have spells
  • coupled with this is that the schools have no restrictions on spells. So all your wizards look the same, save for their subclass features.
  • which, in turn, makes the best subclasses very easy to pick out - the ones that give a strong mechanical benefit for the spells in question.
  • And thus you end up with 25% diviners, 17% bladesingers (all your gish lovers, but there are some legitimately better options there), and 13% chronugy wizards. All of the other schools have very limited scope, but dice fuckery mechanics reign supreme.
i wrote as much here as I did in the links. i clearly am bitter.
 

Raleel

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and another thing! they release the lore wizard, which without a doubt was the most wizard like of any of these, with all it's flexibility on spells and the interneterati goes insane because omg it steals the sorcerer's thunder and omg it's tooo powerful because they can optimize. and i'm like YOU ARE GODDAMN RIGHT IT IS. It's a thinking man's class. You are supposed to be thinking about what resistances the monster has. You are supposed to be thinking about how to manipulate what you got to the best effect. It is literally a class designed around being intelligent and knowing a lot of stuff, but as it is now he's been given an appliance with a shitty ass UI. They just did the wizard so dirty this edition they should be ashamed.

sigh
 

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My bard in our planescape 5E campaign did really well. So well that I think it's slightly overpowered with those combat support abilities.

How people see the bard in 5E? Is it really on the overpowered side?
 

Lessa

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Yeah I went with Lore bard. :hehe:

(Because it fits Sensates better though, didn't know it was strong)
 

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Just got Tasha's Cauldron of Everything in the mail today.

Lots of great options. I rather like a lot of the additions, especially the... Feats! Who'd have thought I'd say that!?

There's a magic item obviously inspired by the Black Cauldron (a bit).

The Artificer doesn't interest me in the least, but I can see how others would be happy with it.

There are new Psionic options, but no dedicated class, just archetypes for all exiting ones. I prefer this approach, personally. The Rogue Psyker is nifty, reminiscent of Psylocke from X-men.

It looks like they didn't include the controversial option for Sorcerers that would allow them to change a spell during every long rest. That isn't available any more. Good call; would have cheapened the Wizard's uniqueness.

All in all a decent book. I was hoping they'd include a new type of Ranger without spells. Oh well, I'll just recommend the Adventures in Middle Earth version for those players.
I'm a bit disappointed they didn't go with a psioncist option although I can see designwise the advantage to the approach they did take: better to have psionics more available beyond a specialist class otherwise you're developing an entire subsystem for just one, possibly niche and underused, class.

I thought the beta versions of the psionic subclasses were a little lacking in inspiration but would be willing to give these a look to see if they have improved.

I prefer psionics to be more distinct from magic, probably under the influence of Dark Sun. Perhaps they'll have a full psioncist class when the finally get around to releasing a 5e Dark Sun supplement.

I wasn't going to pick up Tasha's as more character options isn't usually my thing but I do dig psionics a lot...
 
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Voros

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Awaiting more details on Candlekeep Mysteries but I like the idea of a book of shorter adventures based around mysteries.

Only thing is that mystery adventures can be tricky to design, designers with more of a CoC and Delta Green background seem more likely to pull it off than a bunch of D&D writers.

I expect the quality to be uneven but if there are 3-4 good ones it would be worthwhile.

jSdb2ck9jb0cb.png

 

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I like the idea of a bunch of short mysteries but I'm on the fence. The author list in this article is mainly people I've never heard of; they seem to be minor celebrities. That's ok in itself but most of them don't seem to have much mystery writing or game writing experience. It sounds like developers are giving lots of oversight. So, maybe fresh perspectives or maybe unbalanced amateur work.
 

Voros

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I like the idea of a bunch of short mysteries but I'm on the fence. The author list in this article is mainly people I've never heard of; they seem to be minor celebrities. That's ok in itself but most of them don't seem to have much mystery writing or game writing experience. It sounds like developers are giving lots of oversight. So, maybe fresh perspectives or maybe unbalanced amateur work.
Yeah I like the idea of giving new designers a shot but for us old fogies it would be comforting to have some veterans sprinkled in there besides Perkins.

A Hite, Tynes, Laws, etc. would make me more comfortable buying early. Although now that I think of it have any of them ever written an actual D&D adventure?

I'm aware of Brandon Stoddard as a 5e blogger and Daniel Kwan's design work on Ross Rifles is first rate.
 
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Endless Flight

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Awaiting more details on Candlekeep Mysteries but I like the idea of a book of shorter adventures based around mysteries.

Only thing is that mystery adventures can be tricky to design, designers with more of a CoC and Delta Green background seem more likely to pull it off than a bunch of D&D writers.

I expect the quality to be uneven but if there are 3-4 good ones it would be worthwhile.

View attachment 25721

I have to say this is a great idea for D&D. I think WOTC have done a really good job with the 5E line and I’m not even one of their biggest fans.
 

TJS

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Yeah I like the idea of giving new designers a shot but for us old fogies it would be comforting to have some veterans sprinkled in there besides Perkins.

A Hite, Tynes, Laws, etc. would make me more comfortable buying early. Although now that I think of it have any of them ever written an actual D&D adventure?
Tynes wrote 3 days to kill which was one of the first D20 adventures written under the OGL.

It's very good.
 

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I'm a bit disappointed they didn't go with a psioncist option although I can see designwise the advantage to the approach they did take: better to have psionics more available beyond a specialist class otherwise you're developing an entire subsystem for just one, possibly niche and underused, class.

I thought the beta versions of the psionic subclasses were a little lacking in inspiration but would be willing to give these a look to see if they have improved.

I prefer psionics to be more distinct from magic, probably under the influence of Dark Sun. Perhaps they'll have a full psioncist class when the finally get around to releasing a 5e Dark Sun supplement.

I wasn't going to pick up Tasha's as more character options isn't usually my thing but I do dig psionics a lot...
I agree. I was expecting something different, but it’s just some new spells and subclasses.
 

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So I'm getting the impression that ability score improvements that used to be tied to "Race" are getting so detached from anything racial or cultural that I'm no longer going to bother with them. I'll just hand out the generic spread of ability scores and let players either pile on a single +2 or double +1 to whichever numbers and there you go.

Also, in the most recent UA (https://dnd.wizards.com/articles/unearthed-arcana/gothic-lineages) there are three new races lineages and all three have darkvision. At this point, only humans, halflings and half orcs don't have night vision out of, like, 30 races. Maybe they should just make that the default and have Darkvision being a generic thing for all PCs in D&D? The designers sure seem to have a hard-on for this.
 

Raleel

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So I'm getting the impression that ability score improvements that used to be tied to "Race" are getting so detached from anything racial or cultural that I'm no longer going to bother with them. I'll just hand out the generic spread of ability scores and let players either pile on a single +2 or double +1 to whichever numbers and there you go.
I believe that is what is coming out in a new book. Strong elves and smart half orcs oh my

At this point, only humans, halflings and half orcs don't have night vision out of, like, 30 races. Maybe they should just make that the default and have Darkvision being a generic thing for all PCs in D&D? The designers sure seem to have a hard-on for this.
or make it a feature of none, and make light matter again.
 

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or make it a feature of none, and make light matter again.
Yea in my experience dungeoncrawling and general exploration loses a lot of good tension when the light factor is eliminated. I also feel that light and LoS help keep ranged and spellcasting balanced against melee.

Or even a cool Feat!
I got one character in my Carcosa game who took cybernetic eyes as a talent that let him see in the dark; it is a strong advantage and I like it that way.
 

Raleel

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That's what I want to do. Add spells and magic items that grant dark vision instead. Or even a cool Feat!
or not a feat! make the barrier higher. Make Dungeons Dark Again!
 

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I get why dwarves would have darkvision but (non-shadow) elves and hobbits (I mean halfings!)? Seems easy enough to adjust for just underworld races for your campaign though.
 

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I just remove Dark Vision completely these days. If anyone has it should probably be Dwarves, but I don't really think it's essential for Dwarves to have it.
 

Chris Brady

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I just remove Dark Vision completely these days. If anyone has it should probably be Dwarves, but I don't really think it's essential for Dwarves to have it.
I've added Darkvision and Low Light vision. But only Dwarves get the former, and Elves the latter.
 

Mankcam

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Speaking of D&D 5E, has anyone got into Fateforge?

I backed it on kickstarter, and have the books sitting in my bookshelf, but I haven't had time to give it a deep dive since they arrived.
All I can say is that Fateforge uses a self-contained version of D&D 5E, and the production value is absolutely stunning.
Nice big glassy hard covers, with some of the most evocative full-colour fantasy art I have seen in recent times.
Rivals Odyssey of the Dragon Lords and Trudvang in terms of contemporary products with high quality artwork.

I will have to sink my teeth into it when I get time, but I had hoped to see it raised here at some time
It's not WotC, it's Studio Agate, but it is the D&D 5E game mechanics, so I guess this would be the thread for it
You can find the books here.

Any thoughts, opinions, etc etc?
 
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Mankcam

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Awaiting more details on Candlekeep Mysteries but I like the idea of a book of shorter adventures based around mysteries.

Only thing is that mystery adventures can be tricky to design, designers with more of a CoC and Delta Green background seem more likely to pull it off than a bunch of D&D writers.

I expect the quality to be uneven but if there are 3-4 good ones it would be worthwhile.

View attachment 25721

I think this could be a great idea for a WotC book, I can see alot of utility with this one for D&D 5E
 

Mankcam

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I just downloaded the free 60 page players guide. It looks interesting so far.
That's only a starter, but it will give you a good impression of the setting and production.
I didn't realise that Player Guide pdf was free, that's an excellent entry point :thumbsup:
 
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Necrozius

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I’ll check out that free intro guide, for sure.

In the meantime, is there something special or unique about this setting beyond the production values? Any interesting interpretations of the 5e chassis?
 

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So I'm getting the impression that ability score improvements that used to be tied to "Race" are getting so detached from anything racial or cultural that I'm no longer going to bother with them. I'll just hand out the generic spread of ability scores and let players either pile on a single +2 or double +1 to whichever numbers and there you go.
The new rule in Tasha's is that all ability score improvements are floating (eg. no more "bad" race / class combos), and that you can trade proficiencies for ones of the same type or lower (Skill proficiencies are floating, armour / martial proficiencies can be changed for each other, tools, or simple weapons, tools and simple weapons can be traded for each other). I haven't had a chance to play 5e since it came out, but conceptually I love the rules because it makes cultures more relevant than races, and frees up GM's to say "regardless of race, everyone in culture x gets taught these things:". It treads on backgrounds a bit, but I feel backgrounds were a mechanic worth expanding anyway.
 

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Yeah one could totally do a human raised by Wood Elves, gaining their skill, weapon and tool proficiencies. Or River Dwarves (descendants of an exiled clan).

But since ability scores are now "floating" they're essentially no longer tied to anything and should just be a generic bonus during character creation, IMHO.
 

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Yeah one could totally do a human raised by Wood Elves, gaining their skill, weapon and tool proficiencies. Or River Dwarves (descendants of an exiled clan).

But since ability scores are now "floating" they're essentially no longer tied to anything and should just be a generic bonus during character creation, IMHO.
Essentially they are a generic bonus now, it's just the way the fix was templated into 5e because WotC don't want to invalidate any previous books. In 6e it will probably just be rolled directly into it's own character gen step.
 

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Essentially they are a generic bonus now, it's just the way the fix was templated into 5e because WotC don't want to invalidate any previous books. In 6e it will probably just be rolled directly into it's own character gen step.
yea, some other systems have already gone half way with this - 13th age comes to mind, where each race has 2 possible bonuses, and each class does too. so pick one of each and you are good to go.
 

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In some ways this reminds me of earlier trends in gaming. Will we now have lineages, cultural packages to go with lineages and backgrounds? Seems a little too complicated. Reminds me of complicated attempts to add rules in the name of realism.

I swear WOTC are like are a yoyo on this. In 4E they made an effort to vastly increase flexibility and decrease stereoptyping and then they made a deliberate decision to lean into it in 5th edition and inscribe it in the system - so now they want to go back again they need workarounds to get around their own clearly deliberate decisions.

I find I just don't care any more. In 13th Age I found the implentation of races so anemic that it was just easier to remove them entirely on a mechanical level and just say if you're a Dwarf just take a background Dwarf in the word and that can give you a bonus to anything stereotypically Dwarvish.

In 5e going forward (but I probably won't run it again after my current game ends) I'd probably just make human the default and let people choose a feat of some sort to indicate non-human status - do a run around WOTCs attempts to overcomplicate things (if everyone has the same bonus why do you even need a bonus? Just adjust the base numbers.)
 
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Raleel

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I find I just don't care any more. In 13th Age I found the implentation of races so anemic that it was just easier to remove them entirely on a mechanical level and just say if you're a Dwarf just take a background Dwarf in the word and that can give you a bonus to anything stereotypically Dwarvish.
I think that is actually quite fair, and I think they could have gone there. they do have racial feats, however, but those could easily be moved out.
 
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Tynes wrote 3 days to kill which was one of the first D20 adventures written under the OGL.

It's very good.
Heh, Three Days to Kill, that was a cool module.
 

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I think that is actually quite fair, and I think they could have gone there. they do have racial feats, however, but those could easily be moved out.
Yeah. A big part of my issue is that races in 13th Age are really just a stat bonus which gets lost in the noise anyway (because you get them from class as well) and an encounter power which often doesn't really feel like it has any solid connection to the concept of the race anyway. I just turned some of the racial powers (in particular the half-elf one) into feats anyone could take.
 
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