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I backed the Kickstarter for Sandy Petersen's Cthulhu Mythos 5e and to say it was a disappointment is an understatement. The crunch feels like it was designed by a 3x/Pathfinder player with only a vague grasp of 5e's design principles. Between the weird fiddly rules, baffling design decisions, and needless complication I found precious little content that was fit for my table. I was particularly disappointed by the spell section.

In addition to the terrible crunch, everything from the choice of fonts (an awful unreadable font was chosen for all the HPL quotes) to typos made it feel like there was a lack of proofreading and professional design. It felt slapped together.

The target audience appears to be uncritical DMs who want to mash the Mythos into their Tolkien-derivative kitchen sink fantasy world.

It was originally released as a Pathfinder sourcebook, so maybe not surprising that it retains some flavour from that.
 
I backed the Kickstarter for Sandy Petersen's Cthulhu Mythos 5e and to say it was a disappointment is an understatement. The crunch feels like it was designed by a 3x/Pathfinder player with only a vague grasp of 5e's design principles. Between the weird fiddly rules, baffling design decisions, and needless complication I found precious little content that was fit for my table. I was particularly disappointed by the spell section.

In addition to the terrible crunch, everything from the choice of fonts (an awful unreadable font was chosen for all the HPL quotes) to typos made it feel like there was a lack of proofreading and professional design. It felt slapped together.

The target audience appears to be uncritical DMs who want to mash the Mythos into their Tolkien-derivative kitchen sink fantasy world.
You can like what you like and vice versa, of course. Personally, I wouldn't count myself in that particular target audience, but I still liked it. I didn't see it as a means of running a Tolkien-derived fantasy world as much as a Lovecraftian Dreamlands setting - which is discussed in the introduction. I could read the fonts OK, and do note that the final physical release - maybe incorporating errata - is yet to be released. Regarding rules and the like, you'd need to be specific for me to locate what you mean in the examples you dislike. I'm not saying you are wrong - just not sure what you are refering to.
 
You can like what you like and vice versa, of course. Personally, I wouldn't count myself in that particular target audience, but I still liked it. I didn't see it as a means of running a Tolkien-derived fantasy world as much as a Lovecraftian Dreamlands setting - which is discussed in the introduction. I could read the fonts OK, and do note that the final physical release - incorporating errata - is yet to be released. Regarding rules and the like, you'd need to be specific for me to locate what you mean in the examples you dislike. I'm not saying you are wrong - just not sure what you are refering to.
Hi there T Trippy and thanks for weighing in on this. I would be happy if you could show me where I am wrong and convince me it is a good book! I am not one of those people who gets ashamed, angry etc if proven wrong. If you don't mind I am going to give a few examples for now instead of poring over the entire 433 page book for things I don't like because it is extremely late/early on my end.

Be advised I have the pdf so I'm unaware of changes (if any) in the print version as I rarely collect physical media nowadays.

The HPL quotes aren't literally unreadable but they are in an ugly fat gothic font that makes me consume more mental bandwidth to read. I thought avoiding unclear novelty fonts is part of Desktop Publishing 101 but my experience is from making a zine 20 years so maybe things have changed.

Overall I find the book unattractive and tacky. I understand this is a matter of personal preference and completely subjective.

The dread and insanity rules were needlessly complicated. I'd just use the DMG insanity options with the Dread and Madness variant on page 76. I'm not really a fan of turning a character's sanity into another resource to manage; it's bookkeeping with a dubious payoff.

I primarily followed the Kickstarter for the spells, tomes, and items. I will give a quick summary of disappointmrnts but can provide more examples if needed given some time.
  • I love the idea of formulas being spells that anyone can learn and cast. It was ruined with another needlessly complicated system.
  • I was expecting the classic spells from the CoC game. Instead, iconic spells like Flesh Ward, Breath of the Deep, and Wrack were missing but they made up new spells like Third Eye Masterpiece and Venomous Fangs.
  • Some of the classic spells that were included were nothing like the version in the CoC franchise or Mythos lore. Shrivel was presented as a shrink spell and is nothing like the spell from the CoC franchise where "the target is subjected to a sudden and terrifying blast of energy, causing flesh to blacken and wither." Voorish Sign is another iconic spell that doesn't match the CoC material nor the Lovecraft story at all.
  • Some of the iconic spells that were included needlessly reinvented the wheel. Mists of R'lyeh could just be a reskinned Fog Cloud. Of all the spells to include why include that?
I have the same complains about Mythos items and tomes. Needlessly complicated and fiddly rules. Iconic stuff that was omitted and new things included that were not needed (Atlach-nacha venom, do we really need another venom?). Stuff that was included reinvented the wheel again (Yithian lightning gun can be reskinned wand of lightning).
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Elder Influence Stat blocks are again needlessly complicated. It's late and I want to pore over them before commenting more in depth on this topic.

The bestiary is okay. Entries are more fiddly than I like but generally usable.
 
Hi there T Trippy and thanks for weighing in on this. I would be happy if you could show me where I am wrong and convince me it is a good book! I am not one of those people who gets ashamed, angry etc if proven wrong. If you don't mind I am going to give a few examples for now instead of poring over the entire 433 page book for things I don't like because it is extremely late/early on my end.

Be advised I have the pdf so I'm unaware of changes (if any) in the print version as I rarely collect physical media nowadays.

The HPL quotes aren't literally unreadable but they are in an ugly fat gothic font that makes me consume more mental bandwidth to read. I thought avoiding unclear novelty fonts is part of Desktop Publishing 101 but my experience is from making a zine 20 years so maybe things have changed.

Overall I find the book unattractive and tacky. I understand this is a matter of personal preference and completely subjective.

The dread and insanity rules were needlessly complicated. I'd just use the DMG insanity options with the Dread and Madness variant on page 76. I'm not really a fan of turning a character's sanity into another resource to manage; it's bookkeeping with a dubious payoff.

I primarily followed the Kickstarter for the spells, tomes, and items. I will give a quick summary of disappointmrnts but can provide more examples if needed given some time.
  • I love the idea of formulas being spells that anyone can learn and cast. It was ruined with another needlessly complicated system.
  • I was expecting the classic spells from the CoC game. Instead, iconic spells like Flesh Ward, Breath of the Deep, and Wrack were missing but they made up new spells like Third Eye Masterpiece and Venomous Fangs.
  • Some of the classic spells that were included were nothing like the version in the CoC franchise or Mythos lore. Shrivel was presented as a shrink spell and is nothing like the spell from the CoC franchise where "the target is subjected to a sudden and terrifying blast of energy, causing flesh to blacken and wither." Voorish Sign is another iconic spell that doesn't match the CoC material nor the Lovecraft story at all.
  • Some of the iconic spells that were included needlessly reinvented the wheel. Mists of R'lyeh could just be a reskinned Fog Cloud. Of all the spells to include why include that?
I have the same complains about Mythos items and tomes. Needlessly complicated and fiddly rules. Iconic stuff that was omitted and new things included that were not needed (Atlach-nacha venom, do we really need another venom?). Stuff that was included reinvented the wheel again (Yithian lightning gun can be reskinned wand of lightning).
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Elder Influence Stat blocks are again needlessly complicated. It's late and I want to pore over them before commenting more in depth on this topic.

The bestiary is okay. Entries are more fiddly than I like but generally usable.
S'alright. Good attitude to have.

You'll note that I am awaiting the printed copy, and I'm only reading from the PDF - but the main feature of the presentation for me lies in all the full colour artwork - a lot of which is eye poppingly good - although I think at least some of it may come from some Cthulhu Wars books, although I may be wrong. So for me, the particular choice of font is secondary on this particular aspect. I can read them, although I've read a lot of the quotes before from the stories anyway. The text and layout just seems typical of most D&D5E books, to be honest, and on a par with the official CoC 7E books at least.

I agree that the Dread and Sanity rules aren't especially good, or interesting actually as I've seen so many rules like this before. I can't see how any Lovecraftian game can miss out this sort of thing though. It's sort of an expectation that Sanity is managed in a game like this I think - although I guess there isn't anything forcing you to use them. Same with the Formula based spells - it's a trope of Lovecraftian horror that certain spells are more plot devises (for any character to cast) than the personal powers of casters - and the rules are designed to ensure they are cast like Lovecraftian rituals. The additional CoC-style spells for the various Classes isn't an exhaustive list mainly because they are additional to normal D&D spell lists.

The whole book is an implied setting and optional rules set up - a toolbox of suggestions rather than a hardboiled system or setting. This is, in fact largely what I intend to use it as - especially using the monsters found in the book (which is a major section) and some of the Race/Class options are basically what I intend to include in some of my D&D games in a piecemeal way. It's a big book with all sorts of things in it. Also, I like PC cats. And Brain Cylinder familiars.

To my mind, if I just go in saying that this is a Cthulhu setting, then the players will basically just slip into Cthulhu mode. However, if I do it subtly in a 'normal D&D' game, then I might actually introduce some horror elements and take them by surprise. I'm thinking of starting off with them playing in a Primal Thule setting, then introduce the Dreamlands horrors while the characters are sleeping...
 
Hey T Trippy thanks for the reply. I want to start by clarifying my position a little. The supplement's fluff was perfectly fine, it was the crunch I had problems with. Unfortunately I already own a massive amount of Mythos material across many platforms. I don't need any more fluff, I need good 5e crunch!

but the main feature of the presentation for me lies in all the full colour artwork - a lot of which is eye poppingly good - although I think at least some of it may come from some Cthulhu Wars books, although I may be wrong. So for me, the particular choice of font is secondary on this particular aspect. I can read them, although I've read a lot of the quotes before from the stories anyway. The text and layout just seems typical of most D&D5E books, to be honest, and on a par with the official CoC 7E books at least.
Let's agree to disagree. The appearance of a book is subjective and I am not going to draw a line in the sand over it. I would have preferred a more understated approach but my taste isn't the end-all-be-all. My wife enjoyed the art and layout but she also winced at the font used for the HPL quotes.

I agree that the Dread and Sanity rules aren't especially good, or interesting actually as I've seen so many rules like this before. I can't see how any Lovecraftian game can miss out this sort of thing though. It's sort of an expectation that Sanity is managed in a game like this I think - although I guess there isn't anything forcing you to use them. Same with the Formula based spells - it's a trope of Lovecraftian horror that certain spells are more plot devises (for any character to cast) than the personal powers of casters - and the rules are designed to ensure they are cast like Lovecraftian rituals. The additional CoC-style spells for the various Classes isn't an exhaustive list mainly because they are additional to normal D&D spell lists.
I am not complaining about the inclusion of dread & sanity, plot device rituals, and formulas; I think they are all fantastic ideas! I just think the implementation was needlessly complicated and inelegant. A good supplement should play to the strengths of its parent system (in this case, the comparative elegance of 5e).

The whole book is an implied setting and optional rules set up - a toolbox of suggestions rather than a hardboiled system or setting. This is, in fact largely what I intend to use it as - especially using the monsters found in the book (which is a major section) and some of the Race/Class options are basically what I intend to include in some of my D&D games in a piecemeal way. It's a big book with all sorts of things in it. Also, I like PC cats. And Brain Cylinder familiars.
I understand it is a toolbox, I just didn't like many of the tools. Funny that you mention PC Cats and Brain Cylinders as they are two of the things I happened to quite like!

I'm thinking of starting off with them playing in a Primal Thule setting, then introduce the Dreamlands horrors while the characters are sleeping...
Primeval Thule 5e was another supplement I was excited to support but ended up largely disappointed. I am genuinely happy you liked it and your campaign premise sounds like a winner.

After a good sleep and reading your reply I think we just have fundamentally different tastes and that's perfectly okay. I am the first to admit that longtime Howard and Lovecraft fans can be notoriously hard to please. This isn't my first foray into "swords & sorcery meets Cthulhu." This is a theme I've been working with for years and frankly I've found most commercial products that try to tackle it lacking in some manner until I found Astonishing Swordsmen and Sorcerers of Hyperborea.
 
I had a cursory look at the Peterson's Mythos book and thought it looked kinda fun... mostly for the chartacter classes. I'm not much of a 5e Player/fan so I formed no opinion on the finer points. The art was decent but not my taste... that goes for a lot of newer CoC art as well. Too 'plain as day', not mysterious at all.
 
After a good sleep and reading your reply I think we just have fundamentally different tastes and that's perfectly okay. I am the first to admit that longtime Howard and Lovecraft fans can be notoriously hard to please. This isn't my first foray into "swords & sorcery meets Cthulhu." This is a theme I've been working with for years and frankly I've found most commercial products that try to tackle it lacking in some manner until I found Astonishing Swordsmen and Sorcerers of Hyperborea.
Stick with what you like then - although AW&SoH isn't going to be compatible with 5E of course.
 
Stick with what you like then - although AW&SoH isn't going to be compatible with 5E of course.
I hold the strange strange position of preferring OSR materials but favoring the 5e system if that makes any sense. I've have been running AS&SH and other OSR material using the 5e system for a while now.
 
I hold the strange strange position of preferring OSR materials but favoring the 5e system if that makes any sense. I've have been running AS&SH and other OSR material using the 5e system for a while now.
Not at strange since the power curve of 5e and OD&D and most classic D&D edition are similar. Except with 5e you get some more choices in the mechanics.
 
I've been eyeing Ghosts of the Saltmarsh wondering if it's a good buy for someone wanting to put together a seagoing campaign in 5E. I'm feeling oddly nostalgic for the seafaring campaign I ran back in the mid90s. Resurrected it briefly in the 3E era but drifted away quickly when 3.5E came out.
 
That looks neat... er I’ve never heard of any of these books or writers. Is this stuff any good?

I am a big fan of Frog God Games products. Tome of Horrors is an excellent monster book, and basically justifies the price of the whole bundle by itself. Grimmsgate is a nice adventure by Matt Finch of Swords & Wizardry and Quick Primer to Old School RPGs fame. The Hazardous Habitats books have useful bits in them you can easily pilfer. Rappan Athuk is a highly regarded megadungeon.

I have other books in the Bits in the Wilderness series and like those, so I assume Into the Open will be good as well. I'm a big fan of Kobold Press and their Midgard setting, so I think I'll like Midgard Sagas. That's the only KP book in this one, but you also get a coupon for 30% off in their store. Highly recommend Tome of Beasts, Creature Codex, the two Prepared books, Midgard Worldbook from them. I'll be grabbing the PDFs of Tales From the Old Margreve with my coupon, since I borked my KS pledge.

I have several of the Troll Lord games 5E adventures, which are largely just C&C adventures for Aihrde converted over, but very good all the same. The other books in this bundle are just bonus plan material. Also Alyssa Faden makes great maps.
 
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Frog God stuff is normally awesome and also awesomely over-priced and difficult to get hard copies of in the UK.
 
For those familiar with Pathfinder's pocket editions, Kobold press are releasing their 5e Tome of Beasts in a pocket edition. Just pre-ordered mine for £15 which is about half of the normal price for the standard sized book.
 
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For those familiar with Pathfinder's pocket editions, Kobold press are releasing their 5e Tome of Beasts in a pocket edition. Just pre-ordered mine for £15 which is about half of the normal price for the standard sized book.
Sweet I hope that they do more of these. I've been eyeing the Creature Codex for months now, intimidated by the price. I don't need it to be large; a pocket book edition would be perfect, both in price and practicality.
 
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I am the first to admit that longtime Howard and Lovecraft fans can be notoriously hard to please.
I'd like to see a game system for 5E or otherwise that I really thought feels like Howard. I have the Solomon Kane stuff (Savage Worlds) and various Conan games but somehow I never feel like they get it right. I also bought Primal Thule and was disappointed somehow. I guess I want something without serial numbers filed off ... real Solomon Kane, El Borak, pirates, westerns, all the stuff that Howard made so vivid. The closest I've found is Amazing Adventures (based off of the C&C model but being redone in 5E).
 
Typing very slowly. Hand still broken.

Started another little short-term campaign in one of @ robertsconley robertsconley 's Points of Light settings and for a lark I decided this would be a world where there's no other reachable planes of reality. Any "demons", "angels", or other such critters that get summoned are likely just products of the caster's own subconscious and cultural assumptions. Gods are distant and might not exist.

I also decided that non-humans are rarities from far away places that everyone gawks at.

It's amazing how refreshing D&D is without looming planar intrusions, the possibility of meddling deities, or having to cringe through shallow fantasy-race cliches (or even worse, shallow fantasy-race subversions). just sharp human drama at a reasonable power scale. Best part is I didn't have to ban any classes, spells or races to get this, as I kept all the assumptions on the DM side. If the players had wanted to build an incongruous travelling freakshow full of mysterious tricks, the entire setting would have responded to them as an incongruous travelling freakshow full of mysterious tricks.

Don't get me wrong, I'll run stuff like Eberron again, but I'm reveling in this for now.
 
New cover for the upcoming Eberron hardback. I'm sure that any resemblance to Iron Man is purely coincidental.

screenshot-2019-09-14-at-10-15-35-png.114028
 
Currently some massive Frog God Games pathfinder books available for peanuts at DriveThru. Quite easy to convert to 5e if you need to. The only remaining one i want is Sword of Air, which they are still holding out at full price.

Not a fan of The Blight setting (too edge-lord for me) but that's up for $5 for 900 pages. Slumbering Tsar is there for $3! I got Rappan Athuk Pathfinder edition for $10, Razor Coast for Pathfinder for $2 and Cyclopean Deeps Volume 1 for Pathfinder for $3. That's about 1500 pages for $15. If you add The Blight and Slumbering Tsar that 3500 pages for $23!

Gotta be worth it even if you're just looking for ideas.
 
5e as a toolbox: it’s a great package of materials to make a custom setting (cherry pick races, classes and deities, etc).

However, I was pondering the implications of limiting magic in a setting in the following way:

-no direct attack spells or cantrips (ie, damaging spells) casters instead focus on other things like battlefield “control” or “support”

- all spells can be rituals; sure, no lightning bolts, but a mage could cast cure light wounds during downtime for “free”

- because healing can be ritualized, perhaps rest duration would have to be tweaked accordingly (longer?)

- along with the above, rituals take 10 mins per spell level. So especially higher spells take over an hour. Perhaps, just like the crafting rules, extra participant casters can reduce the casting time.

Is all this a bad idea? Would this break the game?
 
5e as a toolbox: it’s a great package of materials to make a custom setting (cherry pick races, classes and deities, etc).

However, I was pondering the implications of limiting magic in a setting in the following way:

-no direct attack spells or cantrips (ie, damaging spells) casters instead focus on other things like battlefield “control” or “support”

- all spells can be rituals; sure, no lightning bolts, but a mage could cast cure light wounds during downtime for “free”

- because healing can be ritualized, perhaps rest duration would have to be tweaked accordingly (longer?)

- along with the above, rituals take 10 mins per spell level. So especially higher spells take over an hour. Perhaps, just like the crafting rules, extra participant casters can reduce the casting time.

Is all this a bad idea? Would this break the game?

It would certainly make for a radically different game. I would hesitate to play a spellcaster; maybe having magicians just be people with a feat might be more interesting.

Have you looked at Adventures In Middle-Earth? You might be interested in their toned-down magic system.
 
-no direct attack spells or cantrips (ie, damaging spells)
- all spells can be rituals;
Is all this a bad idea? Would this break the game?

In my limited experience, changes of this level do not break the game. It can weaken players to the extent the CR is a bit off. But CR isn't all that helpful anyway because it's not that accurate. The effect will hit some classes more than others. This can cause some players to avoid the affected classes. So, you spend time creating new magic rules to wind up with a party of martials.

Do you have an in-game reason for no direct attack spells. Something like the goddess of magic forbade using magic to harm, them people figured out indirect harm to get around it?

A more extreme version is that spells can only be rituals, then people would take the ritual feat to be a caster, but still have their other stuff unchanged. less magic but less investment.
 
I've been toying with a game based on the Band of Blades RPG as inspiration. So nearly totally martial, but i decided that players could take either the Ritual Magic or Magic Initiate feat. All the rituals are available to anyone with the feat rather than being caster class, although you have to learn additional ones as the feat suggests. The only way to get other spells is to take the Magic Initiate feat which gives you 2 cantrips and one 1st level spell from either the Bard, Druid, Cleric, Sorcerer, Warlock or Wizard class - which do not otherwise exist.

Stripping those classes is pretty restrictive, but it doesn't end there, you have to either remove the Ranger class or take away their spells and also remove the magic using subclasses from the remaining class options, which leaves...

Barbarian, Fighter (no eldritch knight), Monk (Way of the Open Hand only), Paladin (no spells), Ranger (No spells), Rogue (no Arcane Trickster)

Might be ok for a one-off short campaign but i wouldn't want to run it for long - or use d&d for it for a long campaign, there are better systems for it.
 
5e as a toolbox: it’s a great package of materials to make a custom setting (cherry pick races, classes and deities, etc).

However, I was pondering the implications of limiting magic in a setting in the following way:

-no direct attack spells or cantrips (ie, damaging spells) casters instead focus on other things like battlefield “control” or “support”

- all spells can be rituals; sure, no lightning bolts, but a mage could cast cure light wounds during downtime for “free”

- because healing can be ritualized, perhaps rest duration would have to be tweaked accordingly (longer?)

- along with the above, rituals take 10 mins per spell level. So especially higher spells take over an hour. Perhaps, just like the crafting rules, extra participant casters can reduce the casting time.

Is all this a bad idea? Would this break the game?

I'd use the longer heal times in the DMG.
 
Have you looked at Adventures In Middle-Earth? You might be interested in their toned-down magic system.

Indeed, I have. Big fan. I just want to explore a different type of magic system in D&D.

Do you have an in-game reason for no direct attack spells. Something like the goddess of magic forbade using magic to harm, them people figured out indirect harm to get around it?

This is theoretical, but it might just be "how magic works" in that world. It's the same assumption in Lamentations of the Flame Princess, where there are no direct attack spells (magic missile, fireball etc...). I want magic to be more "interesting". You defeat a foe through curses, hexes, enchantment, not just another magical blast.

I'd use the longer heal times in the DMG.

Yeah that would probably be best if all healing spells can be rituals. I think it adds character, personally.
 
Here are some pics and details from the DM’s Guild Call of the Deep release, nice artwork in this.

 
It's misleading to me. Eberron is a much more 'settled' setting, this looks like it could be from Dark Sun.

I don’t get why people gush over Eberron. From the descriptions I had imagined an almost steampunk or Final Fantasy world full of airships, magic-powered street lamps and steam trains and roving goblin motorcycle gangs. Instead I’ve only experienced the Forgotten Realms with someone’s very detailed history tacked on. Lots of wilderness exploration and small villages.
 
I don’t get why people gush over Eberron. From the descriptions I had imagined an almost steampunk or Final Fantasy world full of airships, magic-powered street lamps and steam trains and roving goblin motorcycle gangs. Instead I’ve only experienced the Forgotten Realms with someone’s very detailed history tacked on. Lots of wilderness exploration and small villages.
That's the thing, it's SUPPOSED to be Pulp Fantasy with 'Magic Punk' sensibilities. A lot of the D&D 3e art and blurbs had these wonderfully evocative action pieces, but it was married to a system that actively punishes players for a lot of the things that make pulp fun.

Pulp has a series of tropes, like 'minions', heroes can handle 2-3 (at the low end) to 3-5 goons in a fight and have a good chance of coming out on top, maybe a bit bruised. Most monsters in 3e had more hit points that some entire teams combined.

Heroes also don't need 'healing magic' as they often can fight all day. Hell, mages are often the villains in such stories. Other things that are common are one hit KO's, not possible base rules.

It's also very mobile and tactile, with chases and objects being thrown around, like mugs of ale smashed, tables flipped. bookshelves pushed and chandeliers dropped.

But 3.x had nothing in the base rules that make it pulp and WoTC did not let Baker (assuming he had any such rules) add anything to D&D that would help emulate it. So they ended up being bog standard D&D affairs with funky races, cool visuals and a different history.

And that image doesn't help the perception.

My best Eberron game (which isn't to say it was good, but my players had fun, so goal met) was run in a mildly house ruled Savage Worlds (I took away the 'free attack' when players and main villains disengaged from each other and Minions.)
 
How do I homebrew so many balanced 5e enemies so fast? This guy's analysis really helped:

 
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