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As someone who is a huge fan of Ravenloft and has also watched Scooby Doo extensively, it’s a terrible mix.

In my opinion, anyway.

I would agree strongly with this. Ravenloft isn't extremely edgy or R rated, but it also wasn't for kids either (and a lot of the source material it draws on is definitely not for kids). Ravenloft wasn't Vampire, which did venture more into R rated territory I think, but it had plenty of death and the grotesque to make it a weird fit for something like Scooby Doo.
 
At least in 2e, each domain was designed to have its own lord that drove the feel of the land. Instead of a vampire, it might have a Dr. Frankenstein, or werewolves with fashion sense, or a kraken priest, or whatever. So it's ok for domain #23 to violate the feel of Ravenloft because it's 2 different places in the plane. But if someone is expecting all Ravenloft all the time, they might be disappointed.

Oh, I see, we just used Ravenloft and Domains of Dread interchangeably back in the day.
 
Oh, I see, we just used Ravenloft and Domains of Dread interchangeably back in the day.

Apparently there has been a shift in language in the newer editions and this is causing confusion. Domains of Dread I think has acquired more specific meaning in 5th edition. I was getting very confused trying to talk with people elsewhere about this (not knowing much about the new material).
 
There's nothing wrong with Scooby-Doo.


Except Scrappy-Doo. That puppy can fuck right off.

I will defend Scrappy-Doo to my dying breath. Obnoxious young character brought in to be relatable to a younger viewer? I was that younger viewer. Scrappy-Doo is my homie.
 
I think the Scooby Doo bit is more about if you want to use this obviously not really appropriate setting for younger players you can do this, rather than Scooby Doo is a legitimate way to run Ravenloft in any kind of general sense.
 
Oh, I see, we just used Ravenloft and Domains of Dread interchangeably back in the day.

I dug the original Domains of Dread and I liked CoS a fair bit so I'm glad to see this although I'd have preferred Dark Sun, Planescape, Spelljammer, etc.

Maybe I haven't read the key article but so far I haven't read anything to give me pause.
 
I dug the original Domains of Dread and I liked CoS a fair bit so I'm glad to see this although I'd have preferred Dark Sun, Planescape, Spelljammer, etc.

Maybe I haven't read the key article but so far I haven't read anything to give me pause.

Things that stuck out to me:

They apparently broke up the main continent, which kind of sucks, but is something that could have happened in pre-5e lore, as Ravenloft was very malleable.

They have overhauled several domains, but the end results of those remain to be seen. The one most annoying to me is the (apparent) gender swaps of both Victor Mordenheim and Adam. I'm a continuity nerd. New female Frankenstein and monster? No big deal. Tying them into Mordenheim and Adam? Even better. But if it's just a lazy gender swap to check a few boxes? Much less cool.

And the push for "all ages horror" in Ravenloft has me shaking my head.

It all comes down to execution, really, and as long as it's all executed well, it'll be fine.

But I'll either buy it or I won't, and life will go on.
 
They apparently broke up the main continent, which kind of sucks, but is something that could have happened in pre-5e lore, as Ravenloft was very malleable.

Sure, there's precedent for it, but I personally think the core continent is much more interesting than all the domains being isolated in the mists, especially if you plan to use the setting for long term native player characters, ESPECIALLY after all the effort that was made to flesh it out and make it more realistic/consistent.

New female Frankenstein and monster? No big deal. Tying them into Mordenheim and Adam? Even better. But if it's just a lazy gender swap to check a few boxes? Much less cool.

For my current campaign I put a lot of thought into replacing one of the existing darklords before the campaign started (Dominic d'Honaire of Dementlieu in case you're interested).

I wanted to kick things off at a funeral, the darklord's funeral, but I also wanted to make sure the new darklord made absolute sense with the existing themes of the domain. After much research and consideration, I basically had an evil madame Tussaud take over. She fits the domain's artistic themes, she fits the domain's themes of falsehood and facades, she fits the literary themes by being based on an established person/character/archetype, and she's a great way to reference 'House of Wax' style horror stories. She's a separate character from Dominic and builds on his history without erasing it.

Oh, and she happens to be a woman.

This wholesale gender-swap replacement of existing characters? Yeah, feels lazy, disrespectful and without resonance.
 
Sure, there's precedent for it, but I personally think the core continent is much more interesting than all the domains being isolated in the mists, especially if you plan to use the setting for long term native player characters, ESPECIALLY after all the effort that was made to flesh it out and make it more realistic/consistent.

I agree with you completely. The shared continent was a huge part of the dynamic of the darklords. I was just saying that it's not COMPLETELY against lore to have it happen. In a long term campaign, a short break-up followed by a massive reorganization could even be interesting.

This wholesale gender-swap replacement of existing characters? Yeah, feels lazy, disrespectful and without resonance.

Yeah, like I said, it all comes down to the execution. Now if Adam is "gone" and Victor is dead, but Victor's daughter accidentally walked in his same footsteps, repeating his sins? That's a lot better. But if it's just a retcon? Bleh.
 
And the push for "all ages horror" in Ravenloft has me shaking my head.
I don't even know who they are making that for. In my experience, kids usually get into games like D&D around 11-12, which also coincides with the age that kids start reading things like Stephen King books and horror movies. In fact, it's generally the age of peak interest in horror for a lot of people. I don't see them being excited about watered-down horror.

Is it for parents running games for their younger kids? Maybe, but they probably aren't going to pick a horror setting anyway. If they do, they probably have a better idea of how to tailor it to what their kids can handle than WotC.
 
I pre-ordered the limited. I had missed this topic somehow, and reading the description blurb made it seem like the book was a Domains of Dread sourcebook.

In the heat of the moment, I sort of forgot that none of the other WotC supplement/adventure books have done anything for me. I'm already having buyer's remorse.
 
I don't have any particular emotional investment in Ravenloft- I played through Curse of Strahd, and it was fine, but didn't blow me away- but my library system gets all the new D&D books, so I'll read this when it comes in. Like books in general, I'll reserve judgement until I've actually read it.
 
Is it for parents running games for their younger kids? Maybe, but they probably aren't going to pick a horror setting anyway. If they do, they probably have a better idea of how to tailor it to what their kids can handle than WotC.

Keep in mind that they had to explicitly publish words to D&D players that they're... ALLOWED (*gasp*) to change some of the rules to better fit their table's needs and expectations.

Like swapping Race-based skills or ability scores.

Whether they're participating in Organized Play or in the privacy of their own homes.

It makes sense that they feel that they have to explicitly tell GMs that they need to properly gauge their audience before starting a horror campaign.
 
Things that stuck out to me:

They apparently broke up the main continent, which kind of sucks, but is something that could have happened in pre-5e lore, as Ravenloft was very malleable.

They have overhauled several domains, but the end results of those remain to be seen. The one most annoying to me is the (apparent) gender swaps of both Victor Mordenheim and Adam. I'm a continuity nerd. New female Frankenstein and monster? No big deal. Tying them into Mordenheim and Adam? Even better. But if it's just a lazy gender swap to check a few boxes? Much less cool.

And the push for "all ages horror" in Ravenloft has me shaking my head.

It all comes down to execution, really, and as long as it's all executed well, it'll be fine.

But I'll either buy it or I won't, and life will go on.

Breaking Domains into Islands is pretty much the premise of Domains of Dread. I don't care about continuity or canon so changes per se don't concern me just the quality of the end product, which remains to be seen. A lot seems to being read into a passing remark to Scooby Doo (and Ghostbusters) which just seems like the Lead Developer trying to respond to a loaded question in the moment to me.
 
Breaking Domains into Islands is pretty much the premise of Domains of Dread. I don't care about continuity or canon so changes per se don't concern me just the quality of the end product, which remains to be seen. A lot seems to being read into a passing remark to Scooby Doo (and Ghostbusters) which just seems like the Lead Developer trying to respond to a loaded question in the moment to me.

We thinking of the same book? The Domains of Dread book for 2e was a Ravenloft setting book with a core continent plus the islands (which also existed in Ravenloft before that book). That's what Ravenloft was (once it became more than Barovia): A continent of independently ruled countries, plus the Islands of Terror (and later the Clusters).
 
Exactly. In a modern day setting, Scooby Doo tropes work. If you have travelled to a magical realm of horror, finding out the monster is a guy in a mask makes no sense at all. It's like playing The One Ring, travelling to Rivendell, and discovering that the elves are all really cosplaying fantasy fans wearing Spock ears.

I think y'all are taking someone saying "horror is a genre that can be accessible to a wide range of audiences, for example there are multiple cartoons aimed at kids that use horror tropes" way too literally. Listing Scooby Doo and Ghostbusters as examples of such cartoons doesn't mean they're literally saying the PCs should have proton packs and the monsters will all be wearing rubber masks. Any more than if they'd listed Vampirina it would mean that the new version of the setting was Ravenloft Middle School.

Oh, I see, we just used Ravenloft and Domains of Dread interchangeably back in the day.

Yeah. My experience with Ravenloft is entirely the original boxed set. That boxed set described the Demiplane of Dread: "Ravenloft currently contains over 30 domains, each the personal prison and realm of power of a lord. (...) Twenty-six of the domains comprise on solid landmass known as the Core. (...) Eight domains are "islands of terror," floating independently in the misty seas of the Ravenloft demiplane."

Was there some intermediary version of the campaign setting where Ravenloft and the Domains were two separate things? Maybe I just haven't seen the interviews that suggest a departure from this metaphysic.
 
I think y'all are taking someone saying "horror is a genre that can be accessible to a wide range of audiences, for example there are multiple cartoons aimed at kids that use horror tropes" way too literally. Listing Scooby Doo and Ghostbusters as examples of such cartoons doesn't mean they're literally saying the PCs should have proton packs and the monsters will all be wearing rubber masks. Any more than if they'd listed Vampirina it would mean that the new version of the setting was Ravenloft Middle School.



Yeah. My experience with Ravenloft is entirely the original boxed set. That boxed set described the Demiplane of Dread: "Ravenloft currently contains over 30 domains, each the personal prison and realm of power of a lord. (...) Twenty-six of the domains comprise on solid landmass known as the Core. (...) Eight domains are "islands of terror," floating independently in the misty seas of the Ravenloft demiplane."

Was there some intermediary version of the campaign setting where Ravenloft and the Domains were two separate things? Maybe I just haven't seen the interviews that suggest a departure from this metaphysic.

I don’t know if this was true in 4e, but the 5e DMG explicitly called out Domains of Dread in the Shadowfell, demiplanes ruled by Dread Lords, the most famous being Barovia, so it looks like they laid the groundwork there for breaking up the setting.
 
We thinking of the same book? The Domains of Dread book for 2e was a Ravenloft setting book with a core continent plus the islands (which also existed in Ravenloft before that book). That's what Ravenloft was (once it became more than Barovia): A continent of independently ruled countries, plus the Islands of Terror (and later the Clusters).

This confused me a lot too. What I have heard is domains of dread is a term picked up in the new cosmology. A little confused by it. For me Domains of Dread just refers to the Domains of Dread 2e book, which itself just seems to be saying "domains of Ravenloft". Apparently the notion of a core is not something that is widely understood anymore (I think the new material moved towards making domains individual things, more like Islands of terror but not sure)
 
I don’t know if this was true in 4e, but the 5e DMG explicitly called out Domains of Dread in the Shadowfell, demiplanes ruled by Dread Lords, the most famous being Barovia, so it looks like they laid the groundwork there for breaking up the setting.

4th edition strikes again!
 
Yeah. My experience with Ravenloft is entirely the original boxed set. That boxed set described the Demiplane of Dread: "Ravenloft currently contains over 30 domains, each the personal prison and realm of power of a lord. (...) Twenty-six of the domains comprise on solid landmass known as the Core. (...) Eight domains are "islands of terror," floating independently in the misty seas of the Ravenloft demiplane."

Was there some intermediary version of the campaign setting where Ravenloft and the Domains were two separate things? Maybe I just haven't seen the interviews that suggest a departure from this metaphysic.

I think Tommy addressed this, but one thing I have been picking up in other discussions is the notion of a core, isn't really something people seem to know about when I talk with fans of CoS and the upcoming Ravenloft (and there seems to be active hostility towards the idea of a core). Wading into it as an old fan from the 2E days, it feel a little like being in the middle of a conversation. For me it began with the original module and the black boxed set (and I came to those in reverse order, via Knight of the Black Rose). So for me, once you have a ravenloft setting proper, the core is part of that. I don't know how familiar you are with the line past the black boxed set (Realm of Terror), but there was also the Red Boxed Set (which was the post grand-conjunction setting books: the core got a bit re-arranged). There were supplements and adventures as well that provided new islands. And there was the Domains of Dread 2E book which provided a more comprehensive overview of the domains, and made it so you could play native characters more easily. After that you had the S&S books (which I didn't really care for), then stuff like Expedition to Castle Ravenloft from WOTC (which I really, truly didn't care for). After that I lost track of what happened with the line and just went back to the 2E material.
 
Yes. Although most of them only get a couple of paragraphs as part of Domain write-ups that are usually about 3/4 of a page.

Yeah, the Red Box was very similar, just somewhat expanded. I think the only exception was The Nightmare Lands, which eventually got their own boxed set.
 
We thinking of the same book? The Domains of Dread book for 2e was a Ravenloft setting book with a core continent plus the islands (which also existed in Ravenloft before that book). That's what Ravenloft was (once it became more than Barovia): A continent of independently ruled countries, plus the Islands of Terror (and later the Clusters).

Ah yeah, I'm thinking of Islands of Terror. But the Domains were all quite distinct with their own Darklords and themes so this seems in line with that, not that I'm a stickler or anything.

It was intetesting to read Hickman's interviews around the time CoS was released, which he consulted on. He wasn't a fan of the way Ravenloft was expanded in 2e at all.

I personally like a lot of the 2e Ravenloft material, it ranges from excellent to mediocre but consistency never seemed its strong suit. Regardless I always viewed setting as just grist for the mill, something to disassemble for parts, etc. If there's something one doesn't like I just ignore it.

Looks like this is another grab bag of younger designers, some I'm familiar with and do good work (like Kira Magrann and Banana Chan) others I'm far less a fan of to put it mildly but overall judging from those I do know I'm starting to consider giving it a go for sure.

Like Candlekeep Mysteries I assume like any anthology the quality will be uneven but I'd like to see what some of these designers do with Ravenloft.
 
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Exactly. In a modern day setting, Scooby Doo tropes work. If you have travelled to a magical realm of horror, finding out the monster is a guy in a mask makes no sense at all. It's like playing The One Ring, travelling to Rivendell, and discovering that the elves are all really cosplaying fantasy fans wearing Spock ears.
Although I'm generally opposed to bait and switch games, I really want to run this. Maybe better suited for a one shot.
 
Yes. Although most of them only get a couple of paragraphs as part of Domain write-ups that are usually about 3/4 of a page.


There was a later supplement Darklords that went into some of the Lords and their domains in more detail.

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In 2e there was a mountain of material produced for Ravenloft, most of which I never saw otherwise I would have spent a fortune buying it all indiscriminately.
 
There was a later supplement Darklords that went into some of the Lords and their domains in more detail.

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In 2e there was a mountain of material produced for Ravenloft, most of which I never saw otherwise I would have spent a fortune buying it all indiscriminately.

I think a lot of the domains had at least a module or two where the PCs would come into conflict with the dark lord of the domain. “Adam’s Wrath” springs to mind.
 
I think a lot of the domains had at least a module or two where the PCs would come into conflict with the dark lord of the domain. “Adam’s Wrath” springs to mind.

Yeah most of the modules take that approach which kept them varied and fun I think.

Some of my favourites include Castle Forlorn, The Created, A Howl in the Night, Hour of the Knife, Neither Man nor Beast and Circle of Darkness.

Many have issues (except Castle Forlorn which is excellent) but the central ideas are so good I'd be willing to tweak them.
 
Yeah most of the modules take that approach which kept them varied and fun I think.

Some of my favourites include Castle Forlorn, The Created, A Howl in the Night, Hour of the Knife, Neither Man nor Beast and Circle of Darkness.

Many have issues (except Castle Forlorn which is excellent) but the central ideas are so good I'd be willing to tweak them.

I would have to go back and read through to see how many were about fighting Dark Lords, versus other things or just having dark lords peripheral to the plot (in some the Dark Lord is there but you aren't expected to fight them). But one thing I think the line could have done better is not lead people to believe that fighting dark lords is the bread and butter of the setting. I suspect there was some disagreement among the actual writers themselves how much this should be a part of it, and I also think for modules it was a very handy way to present the setting (especially for weekend in hell style adventures). But running long term campaigns, I always found fighting with lords got old. And I felt that there was so much more to the setting than just the lords. The lords are the final expression of powers checks, but there are many stages of corruption leading up to a dark lord and most threats can operate similarly to a dark lord in terms of being unique, having special connections with the mists, etc that you can throw all kinds of interesting monsters at the party, who may not be full lords but just as interesting to confront (and doing so successfully doesn't throw the domain into an existential crisis like it does when you kill a dark lord). This is one of the reasons why I think the van richten books are effective.

That said most of the modules were pretty good at offering up other content even if the main plot involved fighting a dark lord or some other adventure you were not interested in running. Castles Forlorn is mainly interesting because the castle itself is really cool, but also it fleshes out forlorn and uses the goblyn denizens interestingly (and it gets into human natives from a nice angle). Feast of Goblyns has a good adventure but you can skip it and pull out all the setting material to make like a dozen different adventures. With Adam's wrath I mainly used that as a sourcebook for Lamordia but also they had very cool parasitic infection in the book that I remember making heavy use of (as well as lots of good maps).
 
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