Dragonbane is the fantasy RPG I've been looking for

[Stan]

S S'mon how are most of the deaths happening? Do they drop an fail their death rolls? Or is it instakills from crits?

I'm starting a short campaign this week. I'm considering changing the crit rules to: a successful parry/dodge changes the crit to a regular hit, a dragon negates the attack entirely. The 1/20 chance to stop a crit seems extra lethal.

 

[Acmegamer]

Why not?

I own most of the MYO engined based material that Free Leagues has put out. I've backed most of their Kickstarter's I am a fan of MY0. I am a long time gamer (March 1978) and RuneQuest(BRP) was my second ttrpg after DnD/AD&D 1st edition, third was Traveller.

What I was hoping from the reboot Kickstarter of Dragonbane was closer to a BRP variant (like the original Drakar Och Demoner rpg) and not a combined/mush/merge of BRP and MY0 mechanics. Which is what Dragonbane feels like currently as released. I'm happy for those who love it, it's just not what I was expecting nor wanting.

 

[S'mon]

S S'mon how are most of the deaths happening? Do they drop an fail their death rolls? Or is it instakills from crits?

I'm starting a short campaign this week. I'm considering changing the crit rules to: a successful parry/dodge changes the crit to a regular hit, a dragon negates the attack entirely. The 1/20 chance to stop a crit seems extra lethal.

PC death on Friday, Severos, was an unusually high monster damage roll (22 on 3d8) vs a human Fighter PC with 6/10 hp and AV 5 (chain & helm), causing instant death.
Previous session death, Markus, was PC human Fighter dropped to 0 at end of round by a skeleton captain, then next round the skel went first with a piercing attack, did enough damage to insta-kill him with a high damage roll before he could be rallied or healed.
Session before that, Makander the plate-armoured PC Mallard Knight, charged into the middle of a horde of cultists while his friends took a sensible defensive position. He lasted 6 rounds before being eventually hacked & stabbed to death.
Before that, no deaths for several sessions. In the first session of Xoth, PC Fighter Kromdar was dropped to 0 by cultists but kept fighting; he failed his last death save after killing last cultist and died in the arms of the princess.
In first Misty Vale session, PC Bard Trystan with 10 hp & no armour was still singing away while on 0 hp when hit by a goblin arrow. d10 damage, rolled 10, instant death.

None of these deaths were due to crits AFAICR. The latest death was the first death to a monster; NPCs generally seem a lot deadlier. Most deaths occur when a PC is hit for a high damage roll while on 0 hp. I use the free action to rally rule, if it took an action it would likely rarely happen, so NPCs would likely ignore downed PCs. Probably causing fewer individual deaths but more TPKs.

 

[Raleel]

I order to be transparent, I am more than a little hyped for the game. It suits me in complexity and novel ideas and I played the old game!

That’s a new concept on this board. We’ve never had a mega fan of a system before.

 

[Acmegamer]

S S'mon That's why I recommended the upping of armor damage reduction. Just feels like the reduction tends to be too low in Db and BRP based rpgs for that matter.

 

[Raleel]

S S'mon That's why I recommended the upping of armor damage reduction. Just feels like the reduction tends to be too low in Db and BRP based rpgs for that matter.

I don’t have dragonbane yet (and I will get it) but I’ve found sort of the opposite - people tend to weapon too high. BRP games can feel very dramatic with little armor and a couple of daggers.

 

[Sharrow]

I don’t have dragonbane yet (and I will get it) but I’ve found sort of the opposite - people tend to weapon too high. BRP games can feel very dramatic with little armor and a couple of daggers.

The base damage of daggers in many/most(?) BRP games (1d4+2) is actually quite good - it's the same average as short swords (1d6+1) and the minimum is sufficient in games like Runequest to disable an arm with minimum damage. Daggers are scary in BRP if you don't have armour.

 

[zcthu3]

I own most of the MYO engined based material that Free Leagues has put out. I've backed most of their Kickstarter's I am a fan of MY0. I am a long time gamer (March 1978) and RuneQuest(BRP) was my second ttrpg after DnD/AD&D 1st edition, third was Traveller.

What I was hoping from the reboot Kickstarter of Dragonbane was closer to a BRP variant (like the original Drakar Och Demoner rpg) and not a combined/mush/merge of BRP and MY0 mechanics. Which is what Dragonbane feels like currently as released. I'm happy for those who love it, it's just not what I was expecting nor wanting.

I haven’t played much of it yet (4 of us in one group have all backed it, so we’re waiting for our hard copies to really get into it) butI was the same - really wanting something closer to BRP.

As time has gone on however, I’ve realised I have a copy of Stormbringer 5, and a whole bunch of other BRP games (including Mythras and the BGB) however, and so now I’m willing to give it a go as its own thing - hopefully the merging of two great tastes will work well for my group. The only things I am a little disappointed about now are:

• the bestiary - it covers the basics, but is a little light. It shouldn’t be too hard to create / convert your own (the attack tables in a Forbidden Lands should be a good starting point, it’s just setting hit points etc). I hope a bestiary or something is a fairly quick supplement; and
• a lack of variety in spells with a skill - there’s ‘repetition‘ in Animisim and Elementalism with a number of higher ranked spells just being more powerful versions of lower ranked spells (e.g. more damage for the same power cost). It’s not bad per se, but personally some more variety would have been good - I am actually looking at Forbidden Lands for some ideas on what could be ‘converted’ (an ‘animal control’ spell version of Dominate would seem appropriate for Animism as an example). Again, a magic book would be a good addition, particularly covering other magic types (e.g. necromancy etc).

Overall it looks like it’ll be fun, but there are a few things I want to see expanded.

 

[S'mon]

S S'mon That's why I recommended the upping of armor damage reduction. Just feels like the reduction tends to be too low in Db and BRP based rpgs for that matter.

Quite a lot of hits already do 0 damage though, especially in my Misty Vale game, mooks doing 1d10 damage aren't having much effect on knights in AV 8 plate & great helm.

 

[AsenRG]

The base damage of daggers in many/most(?) BRP games (1d4+2) is actually quite good - it's the same average as short swords (1d6+1) and the minimum is sufficient in games like Runequest to disable an arm with minimum damage. Daggers are scary in BRP if you don't have armour.

As they should be?

 

[Acmegamer]

I don’t have dragonbane yet (and I will get it) but I’ve found sort of the opposite - people tend to weapon too high. BRP games can feel very DEADLY with little armor and a couple of daggers.

Fixed that for you.


Mostly kidding. Though Chaosium repeatedly plays the "Combat is deadly" card. Or some variant of that meaning.

 

[gruagach]

I've run two one shots with the game. It plays well at the table. It's fun. In both cases, did quick character creation and got a full, if short, adventure in about 5 hours.

I agree that the bestiary is sparse - though I did have some success converting Forbidden Lands monsters on the fly during the game (Dragonbane uses a similar bit where monsters have random attacks - the hardest bit of the conversion was translating the # of dice rolled for Forbidden Lands attack to an attack bonus and damage value, but it worked out well enough in play).

 

[Stan]

I've run two one shots with the game. It plays well at the table. It's fun. In both cases, did quick character creation and got a full, if short, adventure in about 5 hours.

I agree that the bestiary is sparse - though I did have some success converting Forbidden Lands monsters on the fly during the game (Dragonbane uses a similar bit where monsters have random attacks - the hardest bit of the conversion was translating the # of dice rolled for Forbidden Lands attack to an attack bonus and damage value, but it worked out well enough in play).

I've been combing through Forbidden Lands for extra monsters, as well.

 

[S'mon]

With most deaths being due to NPCs, I think the best way to reduce deadliness is probably to tone down the default NPC stats. The things that make them deadly tend to be (a) good weapons (b) a damage bonus and (c) a good Evade skill, which draws out the fight. It's probably best to keep STR/AGL damage bonuses rare, no need for mundane goblins guards and bandits to be adding a d4. Piercing weapons can be deadly, even shortswords, so use mostly low damage slashing & bludgeoning.

One of my best fights involved a horde of brigands/cultists and two cult leaders. I gave the mooks whatever weapon their mini had, mostly at d10 damage - there was one guy with a light crossbow that was nasty, but most of them were doing d10 slashing or blunt damage and not having much effect.

 

[S'mon]

• the bestiary - it covers the basics, but is a little light. It shouldn’t be too hard to create / convert your own (the attack tables in a Forbidden Lands should be a good starting point, it’s just setting hit points etc). I hope a bestiary or something is a fairly quick supplement;

I'd definitely like to see more monsters, but conversion from D&D/d20 is pretty easy. Finding at least 3 things to go on a monster attack table can be a bit of a challenge. Here's one I did yesterday for Xoth, converted from I think the Pathfinder SRD version rather than the Kobold Press SRD version:

Leng Folk

AV 2 (Studded) HP 34; half damage from cold. Move 8 Ferocity 2

Attacks

1-2 Etheric Harpoon. Ranged Attack range 10m, one target. 3d6 cold damage, and the target must make a successful WIL check or be pinned in place, unable to move from that spot. It takes a WIL check as an action to remove the harpoon. Armor has no effect against an etheric harpoon.

3-5 Scimitar. Melee attack, one target. 2d6 slashing damage. This attack can be parried.

6 Hooked Spider Net ranged attack, 6m, one target. The net does 1d6 piercing damage, plus a potency 19 lethal poison, and the target is restrained, suffering a Bane on all STR and AGL based checks, and unable to move from that spot. It takes a STR or AGL check as an action to remove the)net.

• Regeneration. The folk of Leng regains 5 hit points at the start of its turn. If the folk of Leng takes fire or magic weapon damage, this trait does not function at the start of its next turn. Even if slain, their bodies reform in a crypt of Leng and go on about their business.
• Void Stare. The folk of Leng can see through doors and around corners. As a result, they are very rarely surprised.
• Void Sailors. The folk of Leng can travel the airless void without harm.

The people of Leng are hideous and malevolent, with small horns and goatlike legs they keep concealed beneath turbans, and mouths full of rows of serrated teeth, somewhat akin to sharks.

They have a fondness for combining heavy leathers and bright silks in their robes, and they always go forth masked when leaving their chilled cities.

Dimensional Merchants. The folk of Leng are interplanar merchants and avid slavers, trading silks, rubies, and the mana-encrusted stones of Leng for humanoid slaves. They sail between worlds in peculiar ships with split, lateen-rigged masts and rigging that howls like the damned in high winds. They tend a few pyramids in the deep deserts and are said to befriend void dragons, heralds of darkness, and other servants of the void.

A High Plateau. Leng is a forbidding plateau surrounded by hills and peaks. Its greatest city is a place which some claim has fallen into ruin, and which others claim to have visited in living memory.

Love of Nets. When in combat, the folk of Leng use nets woven from the silk of their racial enemies, the spiders of Leng. They summon these nets from interdimensional storage spaces.

 

[S'mon]

Here's an adaptation of the White Death from the adventure book to a more generic Giant Serpent:

Ferocity: 2 Size: Large

Movement: 18 Armor: 3 HP: 56

MONSTER ATTACKS

D6 ATTACK

1 Tail Swipe! The Serpent swipes its tail at a player character within 10 meters. The attack inflicts 2D8 bludgeoning damage and knocks the victim down.

2-3 Ferocious Bite! The Serpent bites a player character with its razor-sharp teeth. The attack inflicts 3D8 slashing damage.

4 Crushing Blow! The beast rises high and drops its heavy body on up to two player characters both within 4 meters. Both victims take 2D6 bludgeoning damage, and are knocked down.

5-6 Constriction! The Serpent wraps its tail around a player character and tries to squeeze the life out of them. The attack inflicts 2D6 bludgeoning damage and an additional 2D6 whenever it is the victim’s turn. The victim cannot move away. Actions that require any body movement have a Bane. Trying to break free is an Action, and takes a STR roll with a bane. Others can help.

 

[Neon]

It depends on what you like in an rpg, I guess…

some think it got to many skills other think it got too few skills and I and a few more think it is about the right amount! .

There are some designs people either like or dont but in general the overall impression seems to be good.

It is on track to be released in the end of summer and is being translated to a number of other languages (I think italian, spanish, german, danish, norwegian and french).

There are a growing number of third party creators, mostly in swedish though. Among the creators one company releasing the old campaign setting Ereb Altor from the old version to the new…

In order to be transparent, I am more than a little hyped for the game. It suits me in complexity and novel ideas and I played the old game!

How many skills are they up to now?

 

[Acmegamer]

How many skills are they up to now?

Yes.





Edit: About twenty core skills if my basic counting is correct.

 

[Acmegamer]

Then it goes into Heroic Abilities. Hopefully posting the skills section is ok? If not please delete the post Mods.

 

[Gute]

How many skills are they up to now?

20 ordinary skills and 10 combat skills (different weapon types and one unarmed). You get a base chance in all skills, between 3 to 7 on a D20 depending on attributes.

Then you have a number of those skills as trained, trained skill gets double base chance at character creation. The number of skills that a character are trained in depends on age but between 8 to 12 skills. 6 skills must be taken from your occupation. The rest you pick as you want.

 

[Neon]

20 ordinary skills and 10 combat skills (different weapon types and one unarmed). You get a base chance in all skills, between 3 to 7 on a D20 depending on attributes.

Then you have a number of those skills as trained, trained skill gets double base chance at character creation. The number of skills that a character are trained in depends on age but between 8 to 12 skills. 6 skills must be taken from your occupation. The rest you pick as you want.

Seems like a decent number and not excessive. I had assumed it had really ballooned up in later drafts.

 

[Gute]

Seems like a decent number and not excessive. I had assumed it had really ballooned up in later drafts.

I think it is around the sweet spot for me, enough skills to separate characters focus-wise and have a campaign running for a while without hitting max in everything!

 

[Mankcam]

About thirty skills (with core characteristics as base chances), as well as heroic abilities?
Here on the outside it looks like Dragonbane is starting to feel like MRQ2/Legend, except with a D20 replacing the D100% core mechanic.

At least they are improving the experience by avoiding the standard Mongooses stock art, and going with some superb pieces by Johan Egerkrans

(Egerkrans is pretty much the whole identity of Vaesen, and it looks like he will be here as well with Dragonbane. Pity the core books in the box set are not hardcovers. Hopefully they will do a reprint with the same quality as the other Free League hardcovers, like Vaesen and The Lord of the Rings)

 

[Neon]

What the heck? I just saw that the game will only be released in Q4 2023. I find that surprising because I already watched an unboxing on youtube.

 

[S'mon]

What the heck? I just saw that the game will only be released in Q4 2023. I find that surprising because I already watched an unboxing on youtube.

I thought they're aiming for August. Only the publisher draft copies have arrived so far AFAIK.

But you can buy it in pdf https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/418106/Dragonbane-Core-Set

 

[Neon]

I thought they're aiming for August. Only the publisher draft copies have arrived so far AFAIK.

But you can buy it in pdf https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/418106/Dragonbane-Core-Set

Thanks, but pdfs don't exists!

 

[S'mon]

Thanks, but pdfs don't exists!

Personally I printed out the don't-exists into colour booklets by chapter, & glory in the Egerkrans art!

 

[Gute]

Thanks, but pdfs don't exists!

If you preorder the box from Free legue directly you get access to the pdf:s now and will recieve the box later this summer!

 

[Stan]

What the heck? I just saw that the game will only be released in Q4 2023. I find that surprising because I already watched an unboxing on youtube.

From their latest update: "Dragonbane / Drakar och Demoner is on its way from the printer to our fulfillment warehouses in the US, UK, Germany and Sweden, and we hope to be able to start shipping out to you during July. "

Maybe Q4 is for post kickstarter sales?

 

[Acmegamer]

Thanks, but pdfs don't exists!

 

[3rik]

How easy would it be to use this rules set with Trudvang Chronicles and Lex Occultum from RiotMinds? These are apparently also Drakar och Demoner-based but I found the rules, or maybe the way they're explained, made my eyes glaze over, while the Dragonbane rules sound pretty clear from what I've read of this thread.

 

[Neon]

Another question. Is the Dragonbane box set I am seeing a starter set or the complete ruleset with chargen and gm tools? Seems like a slim affair, not that I am complaining.

 

[S'mon]

Another question. Is the Dragonbane box set I am seeing a starter set or the complete ruleset with chargen and gm tools? Seems like a slim affair, not that I am complaining.

Full game. It's pretty rules light. There is a free Quickstart pdf too https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/409397/Dragonbane-Quickstart?

 

[Arg Vätte]

How easy would it be to use this rules set with Trudvang Chronicles and Lex Occultum from RiotMinds? These are apparently also Drakar och Demoner-based but I found the rules, or maybe the way they're explained, made my eyes glaze over, while the Dragonbane rules sound pretty clear from what I've read of this thread.

I've no real familiarity with TC or LO, but I suspect they're not compatible at all. The later versions of DoD-Trudvang used a system that bore very little similarity to 20th century DoD.
Now Dragonbane is also fairly divergent, but I'd say it hews closer to the 1991 version than the games TC is based on.

 

[Lianodel]

I just pre-ordered the game! It just seemed to do a lot of stuff that I was looking for in a sandbox game. The fact that it's recognizably D&D-like in many ways, but also a class-less, level-less system with a gentler and limited power curve just seemed perfect. Plus the presentation is great—I'm a sucker for box sets, and the artwork is fantastic.

I'm hoping for a Foundry VTT implementation soon!

 

[S'mon]

The fact that it's recognizably D&D-like in many ways

My players seemed shocked at the lack of Clerics! I find this and the gentler power curve makes it a lot more 'generic' in that the mechanics are a lot easier to adapt to a range of settings than D&D's are.

 

[The Mad Hatter]

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Then it goes into Heroic Abilities. Hopefully posting the skills section is ok? If not please delete the post Mods.

This game wouldn't be approved by good old Gygax. Why? Simple, no Polearm weapon skill.

 

[Lianodel]

My players seemed shocked at the lack of Clerics! I find this and the gentler power curve makes it a lot more 'generic' in that the mechanics are a lot easier to adapt to a range of settings than D&D's are.

True! I'm surprised there isn't a Profession to represent that kind of background. Still, there are some standby cleric-like spells in the Animism school, even if it doesn't quite work the way a traditional cleric would. A part of me thinks it's weird for clerics to go dungeon crawling in the first place, but the other part of me thinks of course they go dungeon crawling, that's part of the whole genre, so I might just work them back in.

That's actually one of my quibbles with the game: I'd like to see more from the magic. That said, I've also got boatloads of ideas from spells, mostly from OSR stuff I've collected over the years, so it'd be trivially easy to create new schools.

 

[Stan]

We've found that a starting mentalist is really lacking.
Given that they have decades of material from past version, I would think that they would release more magic and more monsters if the core set sells well.

 

[zcthu3]

We've found that a starting mentalist is really lacking.
Given that they have decades of material from past version, I would think that they would release more magic and more monsters if the core set sells well.

Really? I found the Mentalism spells some of the most varied of the three traditions, albeit they don’t start with a ranged attack spell they can still choose from spells that boost unarmed attacks, levitate, see long distances, have magical armour (important when casters can only wear leather) and move fast at the base tier - plus their higher tier spells are more interesting. Personally, if it wasn’t my first option for a school, I’d be looking to pick it up as soon as I could due to the variety of spells. Of the three base schools, I think Animism is the least interesting.