Dragonlance lawsuit filed

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I actually scored an exclusive interview with plaintiff's counsel. It seems the plaintiffs are justifiably upset about being portrayed in the Dragonlance novels "as total assholes no one could ever tolerate." One plaintiff named Bilbo Baggins stated, "Putting shoes on a hobbit and calling him a kender is a bullshit defense." A second plaintiff named Frodo Baggins added, "It's like the Shire was scoured all over again!"
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Only partially related but I got a laugh, I was browsing FB and someone had shared a picture of a banner that read "I'm working on being kinder when I'm hurt", and because of all the Dragonlance stuff going on I read "kender" and was like, wait you are just gonna turn into a klepto when people piss you off?
 
EmperorNorton said:
Only partially related but I got a laugh, I was browsing FB and someone had shared a picture of a banner that read "I'm working on being kinder when I'm hurt", and because of all the Dragonlance stuff going on I read "kender" and was like, wait you are just gonna turn into a klepto when people piss you off?
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I get thiefy when I get drunk.

There was one time we were out at a dinner and dance thing, and the table decorations were lovely, little motorized glittery disco balls. So when we were all just kinda winding down (And working through the unopened bottles of wine), I got up on the table to nick one of the disco balls, and then... BAM. Security all around, politely advising me to put it back on the table.
 
TristramEvans said:
I think Baulderstone is correct: the phrasing of the lawsuit was done specifically to engender outrage from online observers, presumably with the intention of placing fan pressure on WoTC

Reading over the lawsuit, thee's so much in there that is completely immaterisl to the case itself
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I think it's also to lay groundwork to cut WoTC from possibly making similar claims about them.

Now for ye olde hot take/summary:

Weis and Hickman negotiated a deal for a trilogy of new Dragon Lance Novels. They got the license from WoTC and Random House is on board as the publisher. WoTC and RH's relationship in this deal is just that WoTC approved RH as a sub licensee but is not working with RH directly on the publishing deal. RH is sublicensing through the authors. Part of the advance from Random House went to pay the first licensing fee to WoTC. As part of the agreement, WoTC has to approve or reject all drafts within 10 days of receipt and required to provide feedback on why it was rejected. The authors then have 30 days to submit a new draft. In the filings, Weis and Hickman bring up various social issues WoTC has received bad publicity for and state that is the reason for the termination. They also state they complied with all requests to modify the draft to align with concerns over social issues. This is where most of the internet drama comes from. and I think they are laying the groundwork to fight/avoid WoTC making claims about the authors not complying with re-writing requests.

The authors claim that WoTC got their lawyers on the phone and the lawyers stated that they weren't terminating the agreement, but that they would refuse approve or provide feedback on any additional drafts (including one already filed with them). there are also accusations that WoTC is trying to mess with the business relationship the authors and RH has.

The Authors are on the hook for the advance they got from the publisher and invested a lot of time in the project. There's also the fact that editorial staff changed part way through which triggered a whole series of re-writes of previously approved material. It looks like the authors have a really strong case and WoTC seems to have really stepped in it. Unless they could come up with a really good reason for Random House to want out of the deal, Random House may come after them as well.

Just remember: My opinions are worth what you paid for them and my legal education consists of watching the first half of a single Law & Order episode.
 
The only thing that matters is what is in the contract and since none of us have seen said contract and are not experts in contract law I'm not sure what could be gained by pointless speculation aside from classic internet lawyer jokes.

 
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Voros said:
The only thing that matters is what is in the contract and since none of us have seen said contract and are not experts in contract law I'm not sure what could be gained by pointless speculation
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Agreed. This thread has crossed the line far too many times. I'm closing this for now until there's some sort of new development

Feel free to continue the conversations about the Dragonlance setting itself in another thread.
 
So either they got permission to move forward without WotC or WotC agreed to move forward.
 
We'll probably never know the details of the settlement, but considering the positive response by Weis I think we can assume at the very least they're going to get their books published
 
Both sides realized that they don't have the money to fight this. Hopefully, it'll work out in OUR favour. And by that, we get the books and they're good.
 
Well I guess that's good news. A long and costly lawsuit was more like to hurt Weis and Hickman than a company that can print unlimited cash by getting generations of kids hooked on exploitative psuedo-gambling.

I'm willing to wait and see how a 5e Dragonlance shakes out.
 
I don't think there's particularly high stakes in this case. I can't think of anything DL related that's not an easy fit into 5E. So long as they do an ok job mining the books and keep their sausage fingers off the retcon button it should be fine.
 
I'm kinda hoping for a custom Dragonlance system. I mean, sure 5E is workable, but to make 5E work with Dragonlance means cutting a few races out that don't fit the original stories. Mind you, I'm not against them absolutely, but I've a friend who seriously hates the idea of them in Dragonlance.
 
Silverlion said:
I'm kinda hoping for a custom Dragonlance system. I mean, sure 5E is workable, but to make 5E work with Dragonlance means cutting a few races out that don't fit the original stories. Mind you, I'm not against them absolutely, but I've a friend who seriously hates the idea of them in Dragonlance.
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Oh goodness yes, cut out races that don't fit. Let those entitled Tiefling players eat cake. :grin: I think one good bespoke mechanic is probably in order too, although I can't think of what it could be. Something like destiny maybe? Big damn heroes and all that? IDK.
 
Silverlion said:
I'm kinda hoping for a custom Dragonlance system. I mean, sure 5E is workable, but to make 5E work with Dragonlance means cutting a few races out that don't fit the original stories. Mind you, I'm not against them absolutely, but I've a friend who seriously hates the idea of them in Dragonlance.
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That would seriously be an improvement over default 5e, so yes, of course they should cut them out:devil:!

And of course, I'm betting those races would still be in because brand loyalty, and there would be a retcon on top:shade:.
 
Torque2100 said:
Well I guess that's good news. A long and costly lawsuit was more like to hurt Weis and Hickman than a company that can print unlimited cash by getting generations of kids hooked on exploitative psuedo-gambling.

I'm willing to wait and see how a 5e Dragonlance shakes out.
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I don't think Hasbro was going to put that much money into this. In fact, that's probably the reason for the settlement. Their lawyers looked at it and told them "Make a deal."
 
Silverlion said:
I'm kinda hoping for a custom Dragonlance system. I mean, sure 5E is workable, but to make 5E work with Dragonlance means cutting a few races out that don't fit the original stories. Mind you, I'm not against them absolutely, but I've a friend who seriously hates the idea of them in Dragonlance.
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Yeah, it seems that Wizards is out of the custom system for games business. It's a big risk, and it hasn't ever paid off for them in a big way.
 
chuckdee said:
I don't think Hasbro was going to put that much money into this. In fact, that's probably the reason for the settlement. Their lawyers looked at it and told them "Make a deal."
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More likely "Honor the agreement you originally made. We don't need the bad press."

However else you feel about the issues, what WotC did to Weis and Hickman was pretty shitty. Just announcing "we're not going to approve any more manuscripts so we don't have to pay your contract termination fee" is not a good look.

Glad it worked out and it sounds like we're getting new Dragonlance.
 
Torque2100 said:
More likely "Honor the agreement you originally made. We don't need the bad press."

However else you feel about the issues, what WotC did to Weis and Hickman was pretty shitty. Just announcing "we're not going to approve any more manuscripts so we don't have to pay your contract termination fee" is not a good look.
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Well, afaik, they're still dealing with a similiar lawsuit for pretty much the same behaviour with Gale Force 9
 
I suspect this means some novels will be published.

I doubt we're seeing 5e Dragonlance.
 
TJS said:
I suspect this means some novels will be published.

I doubt we're seeing 5e Dragonlance.
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They'd be moronic to not tap into a cross-promotion on that front.


But, then again, if I had a dollar for everytime I thought :"theyd be moronic to not.." and they didn't, Id be a richer man
 
TristramEvans said:
They'd be moronic to not tap into a cross-promotion on that front.


But, then again, if I had a dollar for everytime I thought :"theyd be moronic to not.." and they didn't, Id be a richer man
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Would they promote the books? R.A. Salvatore's books no longer have the Forgotten Realms label on them. I would suspect Weis and Hickman's new Dragonlance novels would get the same treatment - it's their publisher that would likely do the promoting. WOTC certainly don't seem to have shown any great interest in the publication of new novels - so I would doubt they really see all that much value in them.

If the books were to be a massive success then that might be different - but the time in which fantasy literature and D&D cross pollinated each other is mostly gone now anyway.
 
Dragonlance is a nostalgia thing. If I were to run it I would use Castles and Crusades. It's far better suited to the setting then anything WOTC would put out for 5E.

And what would they put out anyway? Probably just a reprint of the same old modules - but now you can play a renegade draconian paladin that's escaped the Dark Queen's influence and team up with your Tiefling Warlock buddy to stop the dragonarmies.
 
To me, 5e would be a fine system to run DL in. D&D as a system has always tended towards heroic play (HP, powerful magic and magic items) which is very much DL's thing.

The claim that they would shoehorn in Dragonborn and Tieflings strikes me as sour grapes projection with little reason to back it up. I don't recall that being done in the Greyhawk of Ghosts of Saltmarsh although I wasn't hunting for it as some kind of sign of corporate millenial-baiting sell out either.

They've asked about DL in their surveys and have long said they intend to release the classic settings in 5e so I'm unsure where all the negativity is coming from, beyond kneejerk 'WotC sucks mannnnn!' attitude.

 
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