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Is it a cinematic tour de force like The Phantom Menace?
That was a cinematic tour de fart.

Curiously, though, the narrative arc of Paul Atriedes is not totally dissimilar to that of Annakin Skywalker.
 
I hear the Gom Jabbar in this version takes up as much time as the podrace did in PM. :clown:
Oddly enough, when you put in more pod racing into TPM, the film gets better, because the race has more to it and is more of a story in itself.
 
No, it’s not out in the US for a while. Guess they’re doing the whole “let the international market build the hype for it” thing.
It should be in my local Odeon today according to the interwebs. I will try to watch it in the next week or two.
 
I'm curious how it will do. Dune has a following to be sure but I suspect it's an order of magnitude more obscure than Lord of the Rings. I also suspect few people went past Dune Messiah. I saw something about critics decrying the movie as "just The White Savior Myth" which is funny considering Dune Messiah was intended to be part of the same book. You can't discuss the failure of the white savior myth and indeed all messianic figures without setting one up first.

I guess that's my fear for the movie, lots of cool visuals, lots of action, none of the depth or meaning.
 
No, it’s not out in the US for a while. Guess they’re doing the whole “let the international market build the hype for it” thing.
Is it because of that, or because in the US it will be on streaming the day of release?
 
I'm curious how it will do. Dune has a following to be sure but I suspect it's an order of magnitude more obscure than Lord of the Rings. I also suspect few people went past Dune Messiah. I saw something about critics decrying the movie as "just The White Savior Myth" which is funny considering Dune Messiah was intended to be part of the same book. You can't discuss the failure of the white savior myth and indeed all messianic figures without setting one up first.

I guess that's my fear for the movie, lots of cool visuals, lots of action, none of the depth or meaning.
I don't think you have to be worried about that.
 
Curiously, though, the narrative arc of Paul Atriedes is not totally dissimilar to that of Annakin Skywalker.


Except it's not him that's corrupted, but everyone around him. In becoming a messiah figure he ended up having no true power to stop the horrors inflicted in his name by the Jyhad, and in the end Paul was too afraid to make the choice that would lead to The Golden Path as it would mean for him an eternity of suffering.

This iswhy God Emperor is such an integral conclusion to the story, in order to truly put into context what possible future Paul was too terrified to embrace.
 
So I’m never going to read the books. What happens to Paul in the end?
 
He is blinded by a nuclear explosion, his wife dies, and he walks out into the desert to die like a good Fremen. Later he walks back out of the desert to troll his little sister.
 
In my view, the son makes the father.
Anakin’s son: enthusiastic farm boy joins dying order of psionic space knights, overthrows tyrant with a little help from daddy, ends up as disillusioned hermit subsisting on blue milk

Paul’s son: fuses with sandworm to become immortal (until his deliberate sacrifice), omniscient galactic tyrant to guide humanity into spreading across space, ensuring the species’ collective survival.

Yeah, still not seeing it.
 
Luke and Anakin are not as interesting individually as they are intertwined. The father makes the son and the son makes the father. I have a soft spot for fractured father-son relationships that are mended in films. Probably why Field of Dreams is one of my favorite movies ever. This thought dawned on me while I was figuring out if there was anything in common amongst my favorites.
 
Luke and Anakin are not as interesting individually as they are intertwined. The father makes the son and the son makes the father. I have a soft spot for fractured father-son relationships that are mended in films. Probably why Field of Dreams is one of my favorite movies ever. This thought dawned on me while I was figuring out if there was anything in common amongst my favorites.
Now I'm hearing Father & Son as the opening intro scene soundtrack for Children of Dune... :grin: :grin::grin:

 
I don’t want to threadcrap with my thoughts on Star Wars. Dune is a fine franchise and doesn’t need me to jump on board. I’m sure this new movie will delight many fans.
 
When I was about twelve I elevator pitched a Traveller adventure as "The best parts of Dune and Starship Troopers! Powered armor, orbital drops, harsh environments, and giant monsters!" That's what I'm expecting from the movie, but I'm not twelve anymore and I kinda dread it.

As for Star Wars, Luke taken in the light of the recent sequel trilogy would have a lot to talk about with Paul. I wonder if that was intentional.

Dune's theme is the futility of prophecy, religion, and government. Star Wars's theme is Space Wizards! Twelve year old me preferred the latter.

I once wrote a bit where Hari Seldon and Leto II have a discussion. (Two prophecies enter one leaves!) I wonder if I can find it. Nope....sorry...
 
So I’m never going to read the books. What happens to Paul in the end?

Paul's prescience granted from the spice allows him to see multiple futures. Unfortunately, his youth and unfamiliarity with this power during the original Dune means he mis-steps along the way leading the worst possible future - he inadvertently unleashes a horde of religious fanatics that worship him (but he cannot control) upon the galaxy who go from planet to planet in a holy war of slaughter and genocide. Meanwhile, closer to him, The Bene Gesserit, Spacing Guild, and Tleilaxu factions conspire to dethrone Paul, with the Guild Navigator's using the Spice to shield the plot from Paul's prescient visions. Their plot eventually succeeds in blinding Paul, so that he can only function through his prescience.

Paul's love and consort dies in childbirth, an event Paul also foresaw but was unable to prevent, giving birth to twins, born psychically "awakened" because of their father. Paul is faced with a choice as all possible futures he sees leads to humanity's eventual extinction, except one, what he calls The Golden Path. However, he realizes that in order to enact this future he would need to make a choice that would condemn him to an immortal hell, a fate he ultimately is too afraid of to commit to, so instead, in order to win the fealty of the the Fremen for his children, he choses to fulfil a Fremen legend of a blind man who wanders into the desert and dies. His sister orders the deaths of the conspirators against Paul's wishes and acts as regent for the twins.

This is the end of Dune Messiah (originally one book with Dune), but it takes two more books to finish Paul's story. Paul's son, Leto, not only possesses his father's prescience, but also access to ancestral memories, meaning everyone in his genetic line, including his father "lives" as a consciousness within him. Leto makes the sacrifice that his father could not make to ensure The Golden Path by giving up his humanity and combining his body with that of the larval forms of the Sandworm, becoming the God Emperor.

DlDrsxhXgAAlNPC.jpg

The God Emperor institutes a 3500-year reign of complete tyranny, taking from people the freedom of space travel and condemning them to living lives essentially like medieval peasantry, while he indulges in eugenic experiments and restricts resources to impose a false scarcity. He geoforms Dune, the Planet Arrakis, into a tropical climate so almost no dessert remains and the only Spice produced remains in his secret underground stores. It is only by showing, once and for all, in the worst possible ways, the horrors of a messiah-figure and absolute ruler, and instilling in humanity a complete and eternal hatred of him and a desire to escape his Empire above all else that he is able to fulfill The Golden Path.

Secretly engineering a resistance and fostering the creation of his assassin, he is finally killed, and the Sandworm larvae composing his body are dispersed, set to work eventually returning Dune to a desert planet and growing into worms that will once again create the Spice needed for space travel. Unfortunately, Leto's fate is to remain conscious within each of the worms, forever aware and "immortal" as a thinking mind in every worm born from them, but unable to communicate or control them. He is simply "there" in this perpetual, eternal hell. This was the sacrifice Leto accepted that Paul could not.

Mankind, from there, enters a period of diaspora; once again able to travel the stars, they spread out across the universe, so that no Empire can ever contain all of humanity again.


Of course, this is only the briefest summaries of the overall plot, a large part of what makes Dune fascinating is the intricate plots of various characters and their own viewpoints on what is happening, a well as, particularly in the final book, the philosophical conversations about mankind's history and the nature of humanity, religion, and politics.
 
I liked the Sci Fi miniseries, personally.
I like the minisieries too. I rewatched them recently and they hold up well, especially Children of Dune. The budget limitiations are visible, especially with the somne of exteriors, but do a really good job condensing a rather complicated story which is really the hallmark of a good adaptation.
 
Paul's prescience granted from the spice allows him to see multiple futures. Unfortunately, his youth and unfamiliarity with this power during the original Dune means he mis-steps along the way leading the worst possible future - he inadvertently unleashes a horde of religious fanatics that worship him (but he cannot control) upon the galaxy who go from planet to planet in a holy war of slaughter and genocide. Meanwhile, closer to him, The Bene Gesserit, Spacing Guild, and Tleilaxu factions conspire to dethrone Paul, with the Guild Navigator's using the Spice to shield the plot from Paul's prescient visions. Their plot eventually succeeds in blinding Paul, so that he can only function through his prescience.

Paul's love and consort dies in childbirth, an event Paul also foresaw but was unable to prevent, giving birth to twins, born psychically "awakened" because of their father. Paul is faced with a choice as all possible futures he sees leads to humanity's eventual extinction, except one, what he calls The Golden Path. However, he realizes that in order to enact this future he would need to make a choice that would condemn him to an immortal hell, a fate he ultimately is too afraid of to commit to, so instead, in order to win the fealty of the the Fremen for his children, he choses to fulfil a Fremen legend of a blind man who wanders into the desert and dies. His sister orders the deaths of the conspirators against Paul's wishes and acts as regent for the twins.

This is the end of Dune Messiah (originally one book with Dune), but it takes two more books to finish Paul's story. Paul's son, Leto, not only possesses his father's prescience, but also access to ancestral memories, meaning everyone in his genetic line, including his father "lives" as a consciousness within him. Leto makes the sacrifice that his father could not make to ensure The Golden Path by giving up his humanity and combining his body with that of the larval forms of the Sandworm, becoming the God Emperor.

View attachment 35685

The God Emperor institutes a 3500-year reign of complete tyranny, taking from people the freedom of space travel and condemning them to living lives essentially like medieval peasantry, while he indulges in eugenic experiments and restricts resources to impose a false scarcity. He geoforms Dune, the Planet Arrakis, into a tropical climate so almost no dessert remains and the only Spice produced remains in his secret underground stores. It is only by showing, once and for all, in the worst possible ways, the horrors of a messiah-figure and absolute ruler, and instilling in humanity a complete and eternal hatred of him and a desire to escape his Empire above all else that he is able to fulfill The Golden Path.

Secretly engineering a resistance and fostering the creation of his assassin, he is finally killed, and the Sandworm larvae composing his body are dispersed, set to work eventually returning Dune to a desert planet and growing into worms that will once again create the Spice needed for space travel. Unfortunately, Leto's fate is to remain conscious within each of the worms, forever aware and "immortal" as a thinking mind in every worm born from them, but unable to communicate or control them. He is simply "there" in this perpetual, eternal hell. This was the sacrifice Leto accepted that Paul could not.

Mankind, from there, enters a period of diaspora, once again able to travel the stars, they spread out across the universe, so that no Empire can ever contain all of humanity again.


Of course, this is only the briefest summaries of the overall plot, a large part of what makes Dune fascinating is the intricate plots of various characters and their own viewpoints on what is happening, a well as, particularly in the final book, the philosophical conversations about mankind's history and the nature of humanity, religion, and politics.
Wow, that nailed it - great summary!
 
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Paul's prescience granted from the spice allows him to see multiple futures. Unfortunately, his youth and unfamiliarity with this power during the original Dune means he mis-steps along the way leading the worst possible future - he inadvertently unleashes a horde of religious fanatics that worship him (but he cannot control) upon the galaxy who go from planet to planet in a holy war of slaughter and genocide. Meanwhile, closer to him, The Bene Gesserit, Spacing Guild, and Tleilaxu factions conspire to dethrone Paul, with the Guild Navigator's using the Spice to shield the plot from Paul's prescient visions. Their plot eventually succeeds in blinding Paul, so that he can only function through his prescience.

Paul's love and consort dies in childbirth, an event Paul also foresaw but was unable to prevent, giving birth to twins, born psychically "awakened" because of their father. Paul is faced with a choice as all possible futures he sees leads to humanity's eventual extinction, except one, what he calls The Golden Path. However, he realizes that in order to enact this future he would need to make a choice that would condemn him to an immortal hell, a fate he ultimately is too afraid of to commit to, so instead, in order to win the fealty of the the Fremen for his children, he choses to fulfil a Fremen legend of a blind man who wanders into the desert and dies. His sister orders the deaths of the conspirators against Paul's wishes and acts as regent for the twins.

This is the end of Dune Messiah (originally one book with Dune), but it takes two more books to finish Paul's story. Paul's son, Leto, not only possesses his father's prescience, but also access to ancestral memories, meaning everyone in his genetic line, including his father "lives" as a consciousness within him. Leto makes the sacrifice that his father could not make to ensure The Golden Path by giving up his humanity and combining his body with that of the larval forms of the Sandworm, becoming the God Emperor.

View attachment 35685

The God Emperor institutes a 3500-year reign of complete tyranny, taking from people the freedom of space travel and condemning them to living lives essentially like medieval peasantry, while he indulges in eugenic experiments and restricts resources to impose a false scarcity. He geoforms Dune, the Planet Arrakis, into a tropical climate so almost no dessert remains and the only Spice produced remains in his secret underground stores. It is only by showing, once and for all, in the worst possible ways, the horrors of a messiah-figure and absolute ruler, and instilling in humanity a complete and eternal hatred of him and a desire to escape his Empire above all else that he is able to fulfill The Golden Path.

Secretly engineering a resistance and fostering the creation of his assassin, he is finally killed, and the Sandworm larvae composing his body are dispersed, set to work eventually returning Dune to a desert planet and growing into worms that will once again create the Spice needed for space travel. Unfortunately, Leto's fate is to remain conscious within each of the worms, forever aware and "immortal" as a thinking mind in every worm born from them, but unable to communicate or control them. He is simply "there" in this perpetual, eternal hell. This was the sacrifice Leto accepted that Paul could not.

Mankind, from there, enters a period of diaspora; once again able to travel the stars, they spread out across the universe, so that no Empire can ever contain all of humanity again.


Of course, this is only the briefest summaries of the overall plot, a large part of what makes Dune fascinating is the intricate plots of various characters and their own viewpoints on what is happening, a well as, particularly in the final book, the philosophical conversations about mankind's history and the nature of humanity, religion, and politics.
Thanks. This seems a little more interesting although I could do without the sandworm melding.
 
It's ok. I mean you're the one who also likes Evangelion, aren't you?
Out of hundreds of anime I've seen, Evangelion is the only one which I rate 0/10. Usually there's something... at least one slightly redeeming feature which gives the work one point.
Not so with NGE.

We should plan an evening at the movie together sometime :tongue:
 
5zh7nx4ft6o71.jpg

Chtorr! Chtorr!
 
Dune is just like AGoT: the only good book is the first one. The rest is unreadable crap banking on the initial success.
There, I said it.
The first book is a heroic adventure story and the rest of the series is Frank Herbert ranting about religion and politics. To my mind the latter is more entertaining.
 
Thanks. This seems a little more interesting although I could do without the sandworm melding.

No way! Turning into a sandworm is such a great grotesque image and weird metaphor.

Amazingly I can't find the striking, strange cover of the paperback I own online. As I unpack my library I'll take a pic of it to share.

But meanwhile here are some of the interesting cover interpretations of Leto II.

1398876187.0.x.jpgGod_Emperor_of_Dune_Cover_Art.jpg

s-l400.jpg
i304365.87926.jpg
tumblr_mq9pb4ugPp1qkq91so3_400.jpg
 
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