Exalted: Any opinions?

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Yeah, NWoD never made any money. Neither did FFG Star Wars. D&D5e tanked because it wasn’t 0-3. PbtA and Fate haven’t ushered in a new wave of different types of RPGs. Catalyst doomed themselves to bankruptcy when they completely changed the Shadowrun system in 4th and then did it again in 5th. People hated WFRP2.

Oh wait...never mind. You’re just provably wrong.
Krugs looks at my post. Takes extreme position and tries to prove me wrong. Ignores facts when convenient. Typical stalking. Nothing new.

But let's play nice and see where you're incorrect. First, NWoD. Are you ACTUALLY claiming that WW completely changed the basics of the system? Cuz, my books say: No. In fact, they're pretty similar. So much so, that most of those players seem satisfied with it. So, incorrect statement one.

FFG Star Wars gets a pass, because it's STAR WARS, it is a MASSIVE property, one of the largest in the world. It's why it's taking Disney three films instead of just one to sink the franchise, and it might not be completely dead yet. And the game still gets a fair amount of push back because of the system. However, this one was always going to do well for a while, the setting wins people over, sometimes that enough to get people to overlook what they don't like.

It's clear you don't play D&D, like ever, because if you did, you'd know that 5e is a rehash of all the parts of 0-3e, with some 4e thrown in. But it's feels a lot like the older editions. In fact, quite a few statements have been made about how it feels like it's an older version, but better. Incorrect statement two.

Shadowrun still uses the same basic dice pool system that it started out with, just streamlined it over the years. Incorrect statement three.

I don't know WFRP at all, because crapsack settings bore me. But I hear it's HUGE in other parts of the world, which like Star Wars would likely give it a pass, even if the rules were nonsensical and arbitrary.

Want to try again?
 
NWoD completely changed the conceits of the setting. There were some who stayed with the oWoD and plenty who cast it aside to play the new.
  • The point being, people did both, so “Gamers hate change” is a ridiculous exaggeration and provably wrong.

Star Wars being big enough to survive any change as far as games go, I’ll give you that one.

D&D? Well first of all, we’ve had 11 editions if you count changes sufficient to reprint and rebrand, (and unlike you, I’ve actually played them all)but even the one with the greatest change, 4e, sold, even when the previous edition was available thanks to Paizo.
  • The point being, people play the oldest and the newest, every time there’s a change, so “Gamers hate change” is a ridiculous exaggeration and provably wrong.

You don’t know much about Shadowrun if you think FASA and Catalyst versions are the same. The core task resolution of dice Pools are completely different, stats are different, they’re pretty much incompatible and people still keep truckin along.
  • The point being, enough people keep buying the new editions (even the Anarchy version which is a completely different type of light, narrative game) every time there’s a change, so “Gamers hate change” is a ridiculous exaggeration and provably wrong.

Warhammer is much like D&D in that the only time anyone really balked was when the game was not even remotely the same (WFRP3) and people still bought enough for them to release over 30 products in 4 years before they got on GW’s bad side.
  • The point being, people played both old and new versions every time there’s a change, so “Gamers hate change” is a ridiculous exaggeration and provably wrong.

For every salty grognard who clutches his first RPG to his chest screaming “From my cold, dead hands!”, there’s a kewl kid who will drop something he played yesterday for the new hotness.

The rest of us who are sane play what we like, whether it’s Old Faithful or the New Shiny. For example, I’m running a SR2/3 campaign and prepping Forbidden Lands.
 
Yeah, that picture never bothered me for 'the sexy'... but it just looks plain silly. Embarrassing in a way that a butt-naked woman on the front of a sword & sorcery book wouldn't be.
The character is grossly misproportioned even for the weird upskirt angle. If it was properly proportioned, I think you’re right, it would still be silly, kind of like some of the Avalanche Press covers.
 
Yeah, NWoD never made any money. Neither did FFG Star Wars. D&D5e tanked because it wasn’t 0-3. PbtA and Fate haven’t ushered in a new wave of different types of RPGs. Catalyst doomed themselves to bankruptcy when they completely changed the Shadowrun system in 4th and then did it again in 5th. People hated WFRP2.

Oh wait...never mind. You’re just provably wrong.


Wrong, I'm tellin' ya!

WRONG!!!
 
Yeah, that picture never bothered me for 'the sexy'... but it just looks plain silly. Embarrassing in a way that a butt-naked woman on the front of a sword & sorcery book wouldn't be.

Yeah the concentrated silliness of the pic is more of an issue for me than the supposed sexiness.
 
The problem is the hibernation you know. They go to sleep and wake up months later and it isn't just the gradual change the rest of us get!
Depends. I hear some of them like waking up and discovering new things:smile:!

NWoD completely changed the conceits of the setting. There were some who stayed with the oWoD and plenty who cast it aside to play the new.
  • The point being, people did both, so “Gamers hate change” is a ridiculous exaggeration and provably wrong.

Star Wars being big enough to survive any change as far as games go, I’ll give you that one.

D&D? Well first of all, we’ve had 11 editions if you count changes sufficient to reprint and rebrand, (and unlike you, I’ve actually played them all)but even the one with the greatest change, 4e, sold, even when the previous edition was available thanks to Paizo.
  • The point being, people play the oldest and the newest, every time there’s a change, so “Gamers hate change” is a ridiculous exaggeration and provably wrong.

You don’t know much about Shadowrun if you think FASA and Catalyst versions are the same. The core task resolution of dice Pools are completely different, stats are different, they’re pretty much incompatible and people still keep truckin along.
  • The point being, enough people keep buying the new editions (even the Anarchy version which is a completely different type of light, narrative game) every time there’s a change, so “Gamers hate change” is a ridiculous exaggeration and provably wrong.

Warhammer is much like D&D in that the only time anyone really balked was when the game was not even remotely the same (WFRP3) and people still bought enough for them to release over 30 products in 4 years before they got on GW’s bad side.
  • The point being, people played both old and new versions every time there’s a change, so “Gamers hate change” is a ridiculous exaggeration and provably wrong.

For every salty grognard who clutches his first RPG to his chest screaming “From my cold, dead hands!”, there’s a kewl kid who will drop something he played yesterday for the new hotness.

The rest of us who are sane play what we like, whether it’s Old Faithful or the New Shiny. For example, I’m running a SR2/3 campaign and prepping Forbidden Lands.
I absolutely agree with your two last sentences (as well as the previous ones). Now, a lot of gamers dislike change, but the same can be said for pretty much any sub-culture, and then there are those that like change:wink:!

What I don't understand is, who are you replying to:wink:?
 
Depends. I hear some of them like waking up and discovering new things:smile:!


I absolutely agree with your two last sentences (as well as the previous ones). Now, a lot of gamers dislike change, but the same can be said for pretty much any sub-culture, and then there are those that like change:wink:!

What I don't understand is, who are you replying to:wink:?
He’s responding to Chris Brady who insists that gamers hate change.

Yknow, the guy directly above him.
 
I dunno, I think it’d be useful if you could see who was posting so as to avoid this circumstance.
I don't think so. Frankly, I'm really grateful that the ignore function also hides the posts by ignored users when someone quotes them:smile:.
If anyone ends on my IL, it means that (for one reason or another) my estimates of the usefulness-of-seeing-to-time-saved ratio is very firmly in favour of the "time saved":wink:.
 
I don't think so. Frankly, I'm really grateful that the ignore function also hides the posts by ignored users when someone quotes them:smile:.
If anyone ends on my IL, it means that (for one reason or another) my estimates of the usefulness-of-seeing-to-time-saved ratio is very firmly in favour of the "time saved":wink:.
But then you waste time with "WHo're you talking to!?"
 
But then you waste time with "WHo're you talking to!?"

It can take a bit to get used to the way the new software works and assume if some one appears to be "talking to no one" its someone on your IL, that's all. Many older forums still show IL'ed folks when they're quote (which can be a problem). I've made the same mistake.
 
I got a copy of 2nd ed. Exalted for free due to some online thingamajig or other, and I think it's the only game that made me nope out due to the crunch. I'm sure I've played in or run games that have a similar number of doodads and special cases and whatnot, but Exalted 2nd seemed to need me to eat the whole horse at once.

So, for doing the whole wandering demigod heroes thing, Godbound would probably be more my speed, and if I just wanted to do mountain-exploding over-the top myth/animu fighting, Shonen Final Burst does exist.
 
I dunno, I think it’d be useful if you could see who was posting so as to avoid this circumstance.
If he can't handle facts or opinions, who are we to tell him otherwise? His life, his call. Doesn't hurt me in the least. Sides, I have Kruger! He loves me!

Anyway, as for the crotch shot picture, it was a simpler time back then, more innocent, less faux angry.
 
When Savant & Sorcerer turned up in some "bad arts in RPGs" somewhere a few years ago, I of course hunted down a physical copy. I already had it on PDF as I bought the bundle on DriveThru, and I don't play first edition so I don't need it. I only bought it to be able to say I have it. :tongue:
 
I got a copy of 2nd ed. Exalted for free due to some online thingamajig or other, and I think it's the only game that made me nope out due to the crunch. I'm sure I've played in or run games that have a similar number of doodads and special cases and whatnot, but Exalted 2nd seemed to need me to eat the whole horse at once.

So, for doing the whole wandering demigod heroes thing, Godbound would probably be more my speed, and if I just wanted to do mountain-exploding over-the top myth/animu fighting, Shonen Final Burst does exist.

Was it that "upgrade your game (D and D)" bit they pulled a few years back?

When Savant & Sorcerer turned up in some "bad arts in RPGs" somewhere a few years ago, I of course hunted down a physical copy. I already had it on PDF as I bought the bundle on DriveThru, and I don't play first edition so I don't need it. I only bought it to be able to say I have it. :tongue:

I feel so weird. I thought that that, as just a picture was a 6-7 on my scale of 1-10, not bad at all but it seems to create such a strong negative reaction in allot of folks. The odd part (for me) was it was done by an artist, IIRC, Exalted fans were really eager to have work for Exalted and pretty typical of his work, including the T and A factor, and they all acted so surprised by it.

But then I think the artists was in demand by the Exalted fanbase that eagerly supported things like rpg.net's NC-17 Exalted msaterial contest and places like The Freedom Stone and, God, did that mood change profoundly and quickly...
 
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Was it that "upgrade your game (D and D)" bit they pulled a few years back?

Nah, it's when they were giving the PDF for free after WOTC pulled a bunch of its stuff from DriveThru for a bit.
 
I feel so weird. I thought that that, as just a picture was a 6-7 on my scale of 1-10, not bad at all but it seems to create such a strong negative reaction in allot of folks. The odd part (for me) was it was done by an artist, IIRC, Exalted fans were really eager to have work for Exalted and pretty typical of his work, including the T and A factor, and they all acted so surprised by it.

But then I think the artists was in demand by the Exalted fanbase that eagerly supported things like rpg.net's NC-17 Exalted msaterial contest and places like The Freedom Stone and, God, did that mood change profoundly and quickly...
Yeah. I'm taking the explanation of how that picture happens to mean either "we have no clue how to work with artists" or "um, guys, how do we talk our way out of the current backlash?" Well... It could be both.

Which reminds me about the hubbub about the picture of her redness in 3ed, where her leg was showing. So they ended up painting it over before they sent it to the printer.

Maybe I should flag it as NSFW? :tongue:

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HERO System would be a good conversion if you want less bookkeeping and micromanagement of combat.

JG

I've felt Hero System could make a good fit for Exalted, but for some reasons (I admit, laziness is among them) I've had a block against doing it. It would be pretty a fairly radical departure from the original rules (Exception based to Effect Based, among other differences) but that really shouldn't be holding me back. But Exalted has become one of the two or so setting I resist converting to Hero System for whatever reason. I really should build a bridge and get over it but I can't seem to manage it.
 
Does anyone have an opinion on the "Red Rule" in Exalted? My opinion is pretty mixed honestly.
 
Does anyone have an opinion on the "Red Rule" in Exalted? My opinion is pretty mixed honestly.
Which one of the many bullshit politically correct and mentally deranged rules was that:gunslinger:?
 
Which one of the many bullshit politically correct and mentally deranged rules was that:gunslinger:?
As Exalted discussions go, this one has been pretty good. Let's not go down that road.
 
As Exalted discussions go, this one has been pretty good. Let's not go down that road.
OK, but how else do you combine a demand for clarification of the color pattern of The Soulsteel Rules with an answer to the original question:tongue:?
 
I got a copy of 2nd ed. Exalted for free due to some online thingamajig or other, and I think it's the only game that made me nope out due to the crunch. I'm sure I've played in or run games that have a similar number of doodads and special cases and whatnot, but Exalted 2nd seemed to need me to eat the whole horse at once.

So, for doing the whole wandering demigod heroes thing, Godbound would probably be more my speed, and if I just wanted to do mountain-exploding over-the top myth/animu fighting, Shonen Final Burst does exist.
Same. I bought it on release and was disappointed.

Would definitely re buy 1e
 
Does anyone have an opinion on the "Red Rule" in Exalted? My opinion is pretty mixed honestly.
Do you mean the one about all attempt by another player or NPC to have sex (consensual or otherwise) with a player character will fail regardless of what the mechanics says of any charm or roll, unless the player says it succeed?

I would say that's pretty much how I would handle it regardless of if it is written out anywhere, unless the group has decided to run with something else. Well, as with anything else, if they are pushing it because they know they have script immunity about something, that immunity will erode.

Then there is also the question of how graphical the descriptions are. But regardless how much focus is on it, it will still be there. If the players want a more chaste settings, there is a pretty famous one written by a fairly religious guy that grew up in Edwardian England.
 
Do you mean the one about all attempt by another player or NPC to have sex (consensual or otherwise) with a player character will fail regardless of what the mechanics says of any charm or roll, unless the player says it succeed?
That honestly seems a pretty reasonable way to do thing to me. It's not too different from just saying, "Let your table decide how to handle it."
 
That honestly seems a pretty reasonable way to do thing to me. It's not too different from just saying, "Let your table decide how to handle it."
Yup. Considering they also have the golden rule which pretty much is "if a rule don't fit your group, change it or toss it out," it's just a matter of having compatible players; which I think one should aim for anyway :smile:
 
Which one of the many bullshit politically correct and mentally deranged rules was that:gunslinger:?
Do you mean the one about all attempt by another player or NPC to have sex (consensual or otherwise) with a player character will fail regardless of what the mechanics says of any charm or roll, unless the player says it succeed?
:thumbsup:Yeah, that's the Soulsteel Rule I referred to earlier.

Now consider this: your PC can be made to kill a whole village and craft the people inside into soulsteel...because it's just a game and they aren't real, right? And a Fair Folk diplomat would totally make you do this (and probably succeed if your PC didn't invest in social charms). And before anyone tells me no Referee would be that callous, trust me: My Fair Folk would do that:shade:.

But the same PC cannot be persuaded to share the bed of the Fair Folk diplomat if they're somehow incompatible. Because sexuality is part of your identity and God forbid that anyone might make you question your identity. That wouldn't be progressive enough for Exalted fans of Exalted.
(Nevermind that a lot of the same people praise Monsterhearts which allows you to turn on people that are, presumably, incompatible with you. Because that's progressive, I was explained - by the MH author, no less:grin:).

Despite the Fair Folk noble still being just a character in a game:tongue:.

...So, am I the only one who thinks that speaks of messed-up priorities:devil:?
 
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That honestly seems a pretty reasonable way to do thing to me. It's not too different from just saying, "Let your table decide how to handle it."

IIRC, it was if the Player objects, the attempt automatically fails?

It felt a little odd to me. There's allot of things I would prefer my character not be talked into doing. Who my imaginary person has imaginary sex with usually ranks near the bottom for most of my PCs, with some exception. That another PC could be potentially talk my character into murdering their wife more easily than having a one night fling seems weird. It felt like all social effects on PC should have an out but that kind of rendered having them moot. Then some people wanted it to apply to PCs only even going so far as to extent to NPCs they 'own': Followers and the like. They're gay PC cannot possibly be seduced by a female, but they go attempt it on a NPC that's known to be a homosexual, etc.

OTOH, it is part of many folks' nature that sex is more 'touchy' (no pun intended) than violence and other acts. Few would think twice about their pacifist PC (as if such things exist. :grin:) being talked into violence or the merciful talked into torture but sex strikes others as different even if its PG off screen, Fade to Black level or even more romance. I think I would have preferred it if instead of "Red Rule" there was a section on talking about the nature of handling it in game than a hard and fast rule (as much as any rule is an rpg). I prefer if if you're going to have social mechanics they have some kind of teeth both npcs and pcs. Its an indication about how much the mood of Exalted fandom seems to have become more button down but as I said it does acknowledge certain

We dropped for our games and any one else could too if they wanted so that sense the question is moot, but they way it was put felt heavy handed to me. *shrug* But I had a run in with Holden over a related subject so I'm hardly unbiased.
 
IIRC, it was if the Player objects, the attempt automatically fails?

It felt a little odd to me. There's allot of things I would prefer my character not be talked into doing. Who my imaginary person has imaginary sex with usually ranks near the bottom for most of my PCs, with some exception. That another PC could be potentially talk my character into murdering their wife more easily than having a one night fling seems weird. It felt like all social effects on PC should have an out but that kind of rendered having them moot. Then some people wanted it to apply to PCs only even going so far as to extent to NPCs they 'own': Followers and the like. They're gay PC cannot possibly be seduced by a female, but they go attempt it on a NPC that's known to be a homosexual, etc.

OTOH, it is part of many folks' nature that sex is more 'touchy' (no pun intended) than violence and other acts. Few would think twice about their pacifist PC (as if such things exist. :grin:) being talked into violence or the merciful talked into torture but sex strikes others as different even if its PG off screen, Fade to Black level or even more romance. I think I would have preferred it if instead of "Red Rule" there was a section on talking about the nature of handling it in game than a hard and fast rule (as much as any rule is an rpg). I prefer if if you're going to have social mechanics they have some kind of teeth both npcs and pcs. Its an indication about how much the mood of Exalted fandom seems to have become more button down but as I said it does acknowledge certain

We dropped for our games and any one else could too if they wanted so that sense the question is moot, but they way it was put felt heavy handed to me. *shrug* But I had a run in with Holden over a related subject so I'm hardly unbiased.
I obviously agree, as my earlier post proves:grin:.

By the way, nobody ever talked my pacifist PC into violence. Granted, he did use his pepper spray on an NPC whom they considered a dangerous criminal, but there was no lasting harm, and then he apologized and gave the guy a joint:tongue:!
Of course, it was Unknown Armies 2e. I was playing a Californian yoga teacher, if anyone cares:devil:!
 
And before anyone tells me no Referee would be that callous, trust me: My Fair Folk would do that:shade:.
Well, do you do that to a player that expects it to be like a Lord of the Rings setting, because Exalted is some sort of fantasy, or do they they know that can happen when they join the game?

I mean, in my opinion it's about expectations of what the setting contains. After all, if the setting is Westeros, the expectations before talking about it will be a tad different from Gondor. I'm guessing most would be equally upset over a chaste version of R.R. Martin's setting.

Same thing with where one recruit players. They already know what kind of games one runs, expectations is already set. Not know each other, but have recruited at the local BDSM club and have used "you may become someones unwilling sexual plaything" as a selling argument, well.. :tongue:

Then, in the opposite end of the spectrum, a Fair Folk can always be a bit bored with it and go for something else.
 
:thumbsup:Yeah, that's the Soulsteel Rule I referred to earlier.

Now consider this: your PC can be made to kill a whole village and craft the people inside into soulsteel...because it's just a game and they aren't real, right? And a Fair Folk diplomat would totally make you do this (and probably succeed if your PC didn't invest in social charms). And before anyone tells me no Referee would be that callous, trust me: My Fair Folk would do that:shade:.

But the same PC cannot be persuaded to share the bed of the Fair Folk diplomat if they're somehow incompatible. Because sexuality is part of your identity and God forbid that anyone might make you question your identity. That wouldn't be progressive enough for Exalted fans of Exalted.
(Nevermind that a lot of the same people praise Monsterhearts which allows you to turn on people that are, presumably, incompatible with you. Because that's progressive, I was explained - by the MH author, no less:grin:).

Despite the Fair Folk noble still being just a character in a game:tongue:.

...So, am I the only one who thinks that speaks of messed-up priorities:devil:?
Makes sense to me. I've been in many groups where people where people were sexually compatible. That can often lead to complicated social dynamics with some people in the group in relationships together, others in relationships outside the group, and others with unrequited attractions to other people in the group. That's without getting into people using games for their own weird fantasies.

Bringing sex into the game can set off all kinds of uncomfortable situations that can have ripple effects into real world relationships. It makes sense to me for some players just declare their characters off-limits.

Killing people is purely in the realm of fantasy for the majority of the people that I have played with, so it isn't as big a hot button topic.
 
I think I would have preferred it if instead of "Red Rule" there was a section on talking about the nature of handling it in game than a hard and fast rule (as much as any rule is an rpg). I prefer if if you're going to have social mechanics they have some kind of teeth both npcs and pcs.
I'm guessing the reason they wrote that rule is because some people sprang it as a surprise on their group, and it is the horror stories that are the ones being spread around. A section, or rather a chapter on how it can be handled would definitely be better. However, it also requires someone being competent enough to write those, as just winging it would be a waste of space.

The intimacy system of 3ed also gives the player quite a bit more options to disengage; and being able to stack some "repulse on the thought about..." and so on, if something is to queasy.
 
I obviously agree, as my earlier post proves:grin:.

By the way, nobody ever talked my pacifist PC into violence. Granted, he did use his pepper spray on an NPC whom they considered a dangerous criminal, but there was no lasting harm, and then he apologized and gave the guy a joint:tongue:!
Of course, it was Unknown Armies 2e. I was playing a Californian yoga teacher, if anyone cares:devil:!

There have been some social exchanges in our games that I guess many groups would have found uncomfortable but we took them as dramatic and interesting. Mileage will vary though so work to keep the player on the same page when starting a game so no one gets anything they didn't say up and keep the floor open for discussion if someone discovers that something make them really uncomfortable. Games are supposed to be fun



I'm guessing the reason they wrote that rule is because some people sprang it as a surprise on their group, and it is the horror stories that are the ones being spread around. A section, or rather a chapter on how it can be handled would definitely be better. However, it also requires someone being competent enough to write those, as just winging it would be a waste of space.

I've read the stories and people can be jerks that's for damn sure. but I always wonder why just sex then? I've seen horror stories about allot of things. If the GM starts to describe happening that truly disturbs and upset you speak up and tell them. Maybe you find a compromise, retcon the event or decide if this game isn't for you.
 
Makes sense to me. I've been in many groups where people where people were sexually compatible. That can often lead to complicated social dynamics with some people in the group in relationships together, others in relationships outside the group, and others with unrequited attractions to other people in the group. That's without getting into people using games for their own weird fantasies.

Bringing sex into the game can set off all kinds of uncomfortable situations that can have ripple effects into real world relationships. It makes sense to me for some players just declare their characters off-limits.

Killing people is purely in the realm of fantasy for the majority of the people that I have played with, so it isn't as big a hot button topic.

I can get that its just an aspect of human nature that strikes me as weird. I haven't killed anyone but I've friend, family members and others I know, some killed by others, death is a very real thing but folks can distance themselves from it enough to imagine doing it or their to some degree extensions doing but sex is a pretty universal experience too but imaging their extension doing it puts off allot of people even if its implied for some.

But as I've said in other places, I am a pervert. :grin:
 
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