Fading Suns 4E is finally out, so what do you think?

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Korgoth

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The 4th edition of the Fading Suns RPG by Ulisses Spiele just dropped in PDF and Physical form. I didn't see a thread on the released 4th edition so I thought I'd start one.

What do those of you who've got the PDF's or Print version of the game think of it?
  1. Are you an Fan of the 1st, 2nd, 3rd Edition of the Game?
  2. On first impressions, how would you compare the 4th edition to earlier editions?
  3. How is the Ulisses Spiele game engine used in 4E? What do you like about it, what do you dislike?
  4. How is the presentation of 4E, that is the layout, artwork and content they chose to include in the initial 4 books?
  5. Any additional ramblings you want to add about Fading Suns in general or the 4th implementation in particular, please ramble on...
  6. For those who didn’t like the previous editions rules engines, or the new Ulisses engine what system would you use to run Fading Suns, and why?

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FS Universe.jpgFS Characters.jpg
FS GameMaster.jpgFS Factions.jpg
 
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I was a big fan of the setting in 2e, but not the system so much. I never saw the other editions. I saw the KS, but the art didn't inspire me. Interested to hear how it does presenting the setting info, and if the system got improved
 
Huh, after the 2e fiasco and not hearing anything about Fading Suns anywhere for well over a decade(Google says it's been 17 years. wth . . .), I just assumed the line was totally dead. So are we getting the promised rules update this time(I'll always be a little salty over this), or is it just more of the same? Anyone know?
 
I was a big fan of the setting in 2e, but not the system so much. I never saw the other editions. I saw the KS, but the art didn't inspire me. Interested to hear how it does presenting the setting info, and if the system got improved
l also wasn’t a fan of the 2E rules but loved the setting as well. It oft was compared to the Dune setting and I can see why but it’s different enough IMO to be its own thing. The art from the 2E era was excellent and I’m not sure if I like the new art or not yet and I’ve no idea what the US engine is like.

Ever since I discovered “Stars Without Number” I’ve felt it would make a great system to run a Fading Suns campaign in. Especially the factions/machiavellian rules. Also the Codex of the Black Sun space magic book would useful.
 
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Really looking forward to some reviews. Like others, I love the setting and want to see new mechanics. The PDFs are just outside of my impulse purchase price, especially since there are four of them for the complete experience.

EDIT:
Just to be clear, I'm not complaining about the ~$70 for all four books, it's just that I'm a completionist and the price per book isn't low enough that they end up in my shopping cart right away. I will pick them up eventually and I'll start with the character book (which I think is well priced), I just want some reviews first.
 
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To be honest, having got Dune this year, I’ve no pressing need for another similar type of setting.

Fading Suns was always a game that was on the peripheral level of interest for me in the 1990s. It was written by ex White Wolf staffers, and I always wondered whether it was intended to be something of a loosely connected ‘WoD-in-the-future’ type of game. The D20 based (roll under) mechanics weren’t that exciting though and the art wasn’t as striking as what comes out of Games Workshop for their 40K setting, say.

Several people I know said they loved the setting, however, although I’ve met few people who actually played it regularly.
 
I'd say that Fading Sun evokes feelings of Dune, but it's not a Dune-etsy or Dune-with-the-serial-numbers-filed-of, by any means. It bears a resemblance to Dune in the same way (and to the same extent) as Warhammer 40K.
 
I enjoyed reading Fading Suns 1st edition, and I really dug the feodal-in-space vibe (whereas Dune is more of the French Second Napoleonic Empire-in-space type).

What refrained me from playing it (apart from not finding a GM for it, that is :quiet:) is that the Noble Houses felt too one-dimensional to me.

And there weren't enough adventures written for it. And I can't remember anything about the system, except that I didn't care for it.
I'm curious about this new iteration of Fading Suns, for sure.
 
. . . . I’ve no idea what the US engine is like. . . .
So it is getting an updated system? I didn't care much for the old one, so I think this might have just sold me. Especially with all the comments about it being like Dune. Ever since I discovered the audiobook version, Dune has been one of my favorite series. Such a great listen on long drives.
 
I have all of the books for every edition. Of course my campaign went in a different direction from 4th edition, but still interesting. The universe is what draws me in.
Welcome to the Pub:grin:!
 
Fading Suns was always a game that was on the peripheral level of interest for me in the 1990s. It was written by ex White Wolf staffers, and I always wondered whether it was intended to be something of a loosely connected ‘WoD-in-the-future’ type of game.
I avoided the game until second edition as I assumed it was another White Wolf-style game about inevitable apocalypse, and I was burned out on that. A friend later talked me into playing it, and I was pleasantly surprised. While it is a dark setting, it's actually has a sense of optimism and purpose, with society starting to move out of a dark age. It's basically a post-gloom setting.

I have the new edition, but I am deliberately not looking at it for now. I have a very big RPG editing job keeping me busy, so I am banning myself from reading any RPG books not related to something I am already running or playing. I am very curious to hear what other people think.

What refrained me from playing it (apart from not finding a GM for it, that is :quiet:) is that the Noble Houses felt too one-dimensional to me.
That's a fair complaint, at least with regard to Houses Hawkwood and Decados. I would tweak those two to make them a little more interesting. Given that the new Emperor is Hawkwood, I'd probably regard the descriptions in the books as the current stereotypes being propagated, with the truth being more nuanced.
 
The game does have that White Wolf feel regarding factions. Of course Bill Bridges was hip deep in that game. I'd like to see one of the minor houses achieve major status. Plus I'd like to see more info on other found worlds. Only down side to all of this is time. I'm already in two other games.

What are all of your favorites in the game?
 
I have been a fan of FS for a good while. I’ve run all of the editions to date, and I’m working on prepping a campaign for Pax Alexius as I read through the books.

The first thing I noted is that a lot of details that are important to character generation are spread out among the Character Book’s pages. And additional details are available in the Faction Book that disperse options even further.

One example is that the Open Perks list, which lists Perks that any character from any faction could choose, is listed in front of the description of the Noble faction and called out in the sections on other factions in both books, so there’s a lot of page flipping Involved.

The color art is nice, very well done, but I was a fan of the old black and white art which I felt was more evocative of the setting in many instances. The layout is done well enough for my tastes, but none of the books have an index which irks me a good deal. Bookmarks in the pdf are decent, but I’ve considered unlocking them to add my own.

I’m glad they did the Faction Book, because a lot of options would not have been included at launch if they had stuck with just the Character Book. I was disappointed that they did not include rules for starships and space travel in the core rules, but I backed the latest GameOnTabletop crowdfund for their ships book.

The game engine is a modified VPS system, and not anything US created for the game. It’s all Bridges’ design. I’ve never griped about VPS before, and it worked well enough for our games in the past so I feel comfortable with it. If you’re highly resistant to using VPS then you might want to start shopping a system if you’re planning to use the setting. I’d say use what you’re familiar with although I was thinking about tinkering with d6 myself at some point because I am pretty familiar with those rules as well.

Overall I am satisfied with my purchase and eager to give it a spin.

The link’s in my sig for the upcoming campaign, Void Chasers, if anyone’s interested in seeing what I am working up. Characters are mostly finished for the players and I have the first drama pretty much ready, we just need to reach a stopping point with Hazard Pay, our current campaign.
 
So it is getting an updated system? I didn't care much for the old one, so I think this might have just sold me. Especially with all the comments about it being like Dune. Ever since I discovered the audiobook version, Dune has been one of my favorite series. Such a great listen on long drives.
I'd be interested in knowing this are the mechanics updated/new?
 
I'd be interested in knowing this are the mechanics updated/new?
They are updated VPS with a few changes. I’ll write a little short review of it a little later to add to the thread. As it is I’ve been thirteen hours working and ready to pass out.
 
They are updated VPS with a few changes. I’ll write a little short review of it a little later to add to the thread. As it is I’ve been thirteen hours working and ready to pass out.

What is the VPS system?
 
What is the VPS system?
In a nutshell, it's a blackjack system using a d20. You want to roll as high as you can without going over the target number. The higher your successful roll is the more victory points you get, with victory points determining your degree of success.
 
In a nutshell, it's a blackjack system using a d20. You want to roll as high as you can without going over the target number. The higher your successful roll is the more victory points you get, with victory points determining your degree of success.

So it's the system they used in 2nd edition, which is the edition I have. I just never knew it as VPS. To me it was just Fading Suns.
 
Huh, after the 2e fiasco and not hearing anything about Fading Suns anywhere for well over a decade(Google says it's been 17 years. wth . . .), I just assumed the line was totally dead. So are we getting the promised rules update this time(I'll always be a little salty over this), or is it just more of the same? Anyone know?
Apologies, guys. It has occurred to me that the use of the words "fiasco" and "salty" were not good word choices, and that they might make it seem like I don't recognize the absolute tragedy that happened around that time. I won't air the laundry, as it's been 17 years, but something truly bad happened and there were people attempting to power through their grief and get things done, truly in an effort not to let their coworkers and fans down, and . . . well, some decisions that they later admitted were bad decisions happened. I'll never begrudge them that because I recognize they really were trying to do their best by the people who were counting on them to get their products out. And instead of salty, I should have said something more like "a little disappointed," because that's accurate and doesn't sound so flippant. Salty is a piece of slang I've picked up fairly recently(like within the last couple years), and this was a bad place to use it. Again, I'm sorry.
 
I've loved the setting since I first bought the Emperor of the Fading Suns computer game in ... 1997, I think? But I've loathed each and every iteration of the rules (the d20 version was especially horrible, but at least the rules could be comprehended and run by normal human beans).

I kind of agree with Korgoth Korgoth Stars Without Number would work just fine as a replacement for the VP system, though its handling of psionics and magic isn't nearly dark enough ... and the spellcasting classes would need some modifications in order to shoehorn them into the setting. The Sunblade would make a great Brother Battle member, though, and the Pacter would make a fantastic cultist ... :devil:
 
I've loved the setting since I first bought the Emperor of the Fading Suns computer game in ... 1997, I think? But I've loathed each and every iteration of the rules (the d20 version was especially horrible, but at least the rules could be comprehended and run by normal human beans).

I kind of agree with Korgoth Korgoth Stars Without Number would work just fine as a replacement for the VP system, though its handling of psionics and magic isn't nearly dark enough ... and the spellcasting classes would need some modifications in order to shoehorn them into the setting. The Sunblade would make a great Brother Battle member, though, and the Pacter would make a fantastic cultist ... :devil:
You might check, I think the Codex of the Black Sun, its magic book (yes SWN has a magic book) might be worth looking into for anything like that.
 
You might check, I think the Codex of the Black Sun, its magic book (yes SWN has a magic book) might be worth looking into for anything like that.
Unfortunately while it’s great for a sci-if with magic game (and it totally has a not-Jedi type of adept) it doesn’t really cover off Theurgy like in FS.

Personally, if I was to use another system for FS (we converted VPS it to a d10 roll high with 12 as the base difficulty and it solved most of our problems with it - you can just use the rest of the system as written including modifiers etc), I would use Honor+Intrigue and borrow from Barbarians of the Void
 
Unfortunately while it’s great for a sci-if with magic game (and it totally has a not-Jedi type of adept) it doesn’t really cover off Theurgy like in FS.

Personally, if I was to use another system for FS (we converted VPS it to a d10 roll high with 12 as the base difficulty and it solved most of our problems with it - you can just use the rest of the system as written including modifiers etc), I would use Honor+Intrigue and borrow from Barbarians of the Void
I don't know, the magic felt more interesting than Jedi to a degree. (Mind you not so far off base, but I rather think it could do something like Theurgy.) Though I wonder if Pendragon ever had any "divine" magic in one of its iterations.
 
I don't know, the magic felt more interesting than Jedi to a degree. (Mind you not so far off base, but I rather think it could do something like Theurgy.) Though I wonder if Pendragon ever had any "divine" magic in one of its iterations.
Oh. May have given the wrong impression. There is one Adept-type which is basically Jedi with the serial numbers filed off. There are a number of other magician types in Codex of the Black Sun (War Mages, Summoners etc), but none of the magician types (or spells) presented really match Theurgists as presented in FS (IMO). From memory some of the magic in particular seems to embrace the high-technology of the setting which really isn’t in-keeping with the technology-is-evil vibe of the Celestial Church.
 
You might check, I think the Codex of the Black Sun, its magic book (yes SWN has a magic book) might be worth looking into for anything like that.
I already have ... which is why I said the magic system isn't nearly dark enough for Fading Suns. It's also how I managed to mention both the Pacter and Sunblade classes.

zcthu3 zcthu3 is right; few of the spells and none of the spellcasting classes included in Codex of the Black Sun really fit the Fading Suns universe. I mean, I suppose the Godhunter adept class could sit in for a Temple Avesti witch hunter, as could a warrior with the Witchfinder focus, but the Avestites also need a spellcasting class, and nothing really works for their sort of spellcasting. Likewise, the Rectifer might work for Sanctuary Aeon and the Sunblade might work for Brother Battle, but every theurgic tradition in FS has some sort of healing spell ... and frankly, in Fading Suns it's not just Brother Battle who use lightsab ... errr, flux swords. And to be completely honest, none of the spellcasting classes or their spells work for Gjarti or Manja cultists, or even Urth Orthodox and the Eskatonic Order. I suppose the War Mage could be used as a spellcasting class for Brother Battle, but that doesn't really seem quite right for the sect.

I'm willing to go through my old 1E and 2E Fading Suns books and adapt the spellcasting style of FS because I do really like the basic rules of Stars Without Number for adaptation to the Fading Suns universe. In fact, I think the entire Fading Suns setting would make a fine subsector within SW/oN. But it's going to be a lot of work, and frankly I think the Arcanist class and everything it involves, including spell lists and foci, are simply going to disappear from the setting once I'm done.

And then there's working out rules for Urge and Hubris, which really are integral parts of the whole setting ... :sweat:
 
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You know, I haven’t said this in a while but Mythras could do this :smile:
Of course it could:devil:!
I already have ... which is why I said the magic system isn't nearly dark enough for Fading Suns. It's also how I managed to mention both the Pacter and Sunblade classes.

zcthu3 zcthu3 is right; few of the spells and none of the spellcasting classes included in Codex of the Black Sun really fit the Fading Suns universe. I mean, I suppose the Godhunter adept class could sit in for a Temple Avesti witch hunter, as could a warrior with the Witchfinder focus, but the Avestites also need a spellcasting class, and nothing really works for their sort of spellcasting. Likewise, the Rectifer might work for Sanctuary Aeon and the Sunblade might work for Brother Battle, but every theurgic tradition in FS has some sort of healing spell ... and frankly, in Fading Suns it's not just Brother Battle who use lightsab ... errr, flux swords. And to be completely honest, none of the spellcasting classes or their spells work for Gjarti or Manja cultists, or even Urth Orthodox and the Eskatonic Order. I suppose the War Mage could be used as a spellcasting class for Brother Battle, but that doesn't really seem quite right for the sect.

I'm willing to go through my old 1E and 2E Fading Suns books and adapt the spellcasting style of FS because I do really like the basic rules of Stars Without Number for adaptation to the Fading Suns universe. In fact, I think the entire Fading Suns setting would make a fine subsector within SW/oN. But it's going to be a lot of work, and frankly I think the Arcanist class and everything it involves, including spell lists and foci, are simply going to disappear from the setting once I'm done.

And then there's working out rules for Urge and Hubris, which really are integral parts of the whole setting ... :sweat:
Personally, I'd just run it with the original system...before choosing between adapting Mythras and adapting Blade of the Iron Throne:shade:!
Of course, I'd probably take the houseruling to the setting as well...

Also, welcome to the Pub:thumbsup:!
 
I'm looking at Blade of the Iron Throne as we speak; thanks for pointing it out to me. But I must say up front that one of the things that most appeals to me about Stars Without Number is how very old school it is; I understand what it's trying to do, understand how to modify it, and like that there is always the danger of PC death if the players aren't very careful. That said, however, I'm completely unfamiliar with Blade of the Iron Throne and know that it might also suit the game I want to run. So thanks for the recommendations!
 
I'm really sad that it's not a new take on the system, my one chance to play the game (rather than offer to run it) was online and I felt completely unable to do much with my character. They just not functioning well mechanically and lots of failures were not a feature for me. Maybe the 4E has made that less likely, but it doesn't sound like it. (Note: It could also just be bad luck, but I don't usually have that level of bad luck in a game. Real life? Yes. Hahaha)
 
Unfortunately while it’s great for a sci-if with magic game (and it totally has a not-Jedi type of adept) it doesn’t really cover off Theurgy like in FS.

Personally, if I was to use another system for FS (we converted VPS it to a d10 roll high with 12 as the base difficulty and it solved most of our problems with it - you can just use the rest of the system as written including modifiers etc), I would use Honor+Intrigue and borrow from Barbarians of the Void

H+I with BotV is a great combo for FS. I ran a Fading Suns game for a while with my own "BoL-ish" conversion (with special attention given to psi and theurgy), we had a blast.
 
After finally getting a read through and building characters, I will offer this.

Gameplay might be decent. But the info is so spread out through and between the books that it was more difficult than most games, even with PDFs available to search, to find all the information needed to build those characters. They need a complete and separate index cross referencing both the Character Book and Faction Book for character creation rules and options.
 
I'm looking at Blade of the Iron Throne as we speak; thanks for pointing it out to me. But I must say up front that one of the things that most appeals to me about Stars Without Number is how very old school it is; I understand what it's trying to do, understand how to modify it, and like that there is always the danger of PC death if the players aren't very careful. That said, however, I'm completely unfamiliar with Blade of the Iron Throne and know that it might also suit the game I want to run. So thanks for the recommendations!
You're welcome.
BotIT is an interesting beast*, but when reading it, keep in mind even an experienced character is exactly one missed good strike away from death (and there's just as many ways to prevent it, or from preventing the strike from being a good one). There are actually rules for starting with a more experienced character if one dies, which should appeal to old-school sensibilities:shade:!

*Very detailed combat system for close combat, one of the best on offer:devil:.
 
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