Far West 12th Anniversary

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Skywalker said:
The fact that Far West hasn't been released in PDF yet suggests that its more than just money. It was suggested that he release a PDF so at least it could make some revenue toward print costs.

It is highly likely that its his attempt to avoid facing claims that he has failed to fulfil the KS.
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I was really only thinking about CAH and Noir World. Given what I’ve read about Far West, I’m just assuming that Skarka’s not doing anything.
 
Jetstream said:
I guess, but I know I’d sure hell try anything to get it moving in that situation. They’re already in debt. But a bank will happily take installment payments. Trickling content out to backers is just going to lose you money in the long run as your reputation suffers.
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Again, it's easy to speculate, but I'm not willing to damn them for not going that route. At least Cartoon Action Hour is out in PDF, and backers (even if it's in a slow trickle) getting their print copies (and the PoD isn't on sale for the public until all backers get theirs). That's far more than GMS has done in a longer period of time. I know money from sales of CAH S3 is going to pay for backer print copies (since the original money was used up years ago). Another difference is that as far as a year ago, Cynthia was still giving refunds, as that is when I got mine. GMS sure as hell isn't. He's good at blocking people who complain, or threatening to punch them in the throat (as he did earlier this year about Tenkar)

I can't speak for the company behind Noir World, but Spectrum Games still has a good reputation. They've put out three games (again, not via KS) since the two behind kickstarters, and at least one game (Retrostar) has gotten a lot of positive press. So while their reputation isn't what it was, it also isn't the dumpster fire that GMS reputation has become. I'm not some blind supporter; while I consider Cynthia a friend, I've had no problem taking her to task for the lack of communication on the one kickstarter. If anything, it's the lack of communication on that one kickstarter that did some damage more than the book not being out. That's why I downgraded my pledge.
 
TJS said:
One thing that I've seen suggested in teacher training is not responding to an apology with "Ok, that's alright don't worry about it", but rather with "Thank you for apologising, I really don't like it when you do X".

Or, in other words, accepting the apology without excusing the behaviour which led to it.
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That might actually be a good cause of action with a narc apologising to you. That way he can't call you rude for not paying enough attention to his apology and you get to set your boundary very clearly once more.

Man, those fuckers are tough to deal with.
 
3rik said:
That might actually be a good cause of action with a narc apologising to you. That way he can't call you rude for not paying enough attention to his apology and you get to set your boundary very clearly once more.

Man, those fuckers are tough to deal with.
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... I feel out of touch. I keep thinking of narcotics officers, or at least their violent 1980s video game, when you say that. (And yes children, it really was like that in California back then, gunfire and explosions everwhere, all day. :wink::clown::gunslinger:)

 
opaopajr said:
... I feel out of touch. I keep thinking of narcotics officers, or at least their violent 1980s video game, when you say that. (And yes children, it really was like that in California back then, gunfire and explosions everwhere, all day. :wink::clown::gunslinger:)

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I think that is meant to be Chicago, not California, based on the signs in the subway stop. Chicago has a California Avenue.
10222

10223

Although confusingly, the subway station starts as Addison and becomes the California stop at some point. Even more confusingly, both of those stops are elevated, not underground. Looking back, I am beginning to doubt the authenticity of this game's portrayal of the War on Drugs.
 
opaopajr said:
... I feel out of touch. I keep thinking of narcotics officers (...)
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Sorry for that, I have gotten used to the lingo used by people who have become the targets of narcissistic abuse in some way when they share information online. Narc, flying monkey, love bombing, hoovering, etc.
 
Though it would be copyright theft, I can't help thinking someone should take what he created and just finish it off and put it out, though likely not for $$$ :grin:

According to backers he has written, in bare bones terms, a fair amount of stuf
 
well in the interim, someone else released a game called High Plains Samurai, which sounds similar to Far West.
 
Even if he got his act together, he could run into trademark issues anyway given there was already a Western game called "Far West" from circa 2003:

www.gamespot.com

Far West

This strategy game will let players build their own ranch, raise cattle, and engage in shootouts with outlaws in the Wild West.
www.gamespot.com www.gamespot.com

It's not a tabletop RPG, but if the trademark hasn't been abandoned its owner could still make a strong case.

I also seem to recall there's a Spanish RPG called "Far West" published by M+D Editores in 1993.

Edit: here we go, looks better than anything Skarka could ever produce.
farwest.jpg​
 
When it comes to GMS, nothing surprises me.
 
Could be memory playing tricks on this old man, but wasn’t it pretty well established before the Far West KS that GMS was a douche? I seem to remember plenty of drama surrounding him on RPGnet.
 
The Butcher said:
Could be memory playing tricks on this old man, but wasn’t it pretty well established before the Far West KS that GMS was a douche? I seem to remember plenty of drama surrounding him on RPGnet.
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yes, yes it was. But being an asshole on forums isn't a condemning offense to me, I've been there myself.
 
The Butcher said:
Could be memory playing tricks on this old man, but wasn’t it pretty well established before the Far West KS that GMS was a douche? I seem to remember plenty of drama surrounding him on RPGnet.
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Not just that, but foreshadowing Far West was his screw up involving ICONS Team Up. People pre-ordered that in print and pdf. Still no print version (he claimed Drivethru's PoD wouldn't let him do a PoD in the size of ICONS books. Which hasn't been true for years since Ad Infinitum does all their books PoD). He offered 10 bucks credit for the Adamant store. Still waiting on mine. There is also the Buckaroo Banzai rpg pre-order as well.

I was interested in Far West, but since he didn't fulfill ICONS Team Up in print, I remembered when Scotty on Star Trek said "Fool me once, shame on you, Fool me twice, shame on me", and stayed away.
 
TristramEvans said:
yes, yes it was. But being an asshole on forums isn't a condemning offense to me, I've been there myself.
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He was more than an asshole. His hypocritical bashing of other publishers is amusing to read now, given he's done far worse than anyone he ever criticised. His smug sense of supposed ethical/moral superiority was always going to be his downfall
 
The most bizarre thing is it would've been so easy to fix early on: plough through the work to get it done, acknowledge that printing costs have increased, get the books out piecemeal if you have to, and make it all clear on the Kickstarter updates. People, especially gamers in my experience, are very forgiving if you actually try to do right by them and make good on your promises.
 
Dumarest said:
The most bizarre thing is it would've been so easy to fix early on: plough through the work to get it done, acknowledge that printing costs have increased, get the books out piecemeal if you have to, and make it all clear on the Kickstarter updates. People, especially gamers in my experience, are very forgiving if you actually try to do right by them and make good on your promises.
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I can't really even understand how he has so much trouble. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the fluff part of the game done? Isn't it the system that's the problem here?

If so... there's a shitload of D6 games! Kludge something together, get it done, and move on to something else. Stop beating it, it's already dead!
 
Dumarest said:
The most bizarre thing is it would've been so easy to fix early on: plough through the work to get it done, acknowledge that printing costs have increased, get the books out piecemeal if you have to, and make it all clear on the Kickstarter updates. People, especially gamers in my experience, are very forgiving if you actually try to do right by them and make good on your promises.
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The sad thing is in his own delusional state of mind, he believes he's doing some of that all ready (imho). He's released chapters for the game to backers before he decided to switch to D6 for the base system. He hasn't owned up on the print versions yet, because he still hasn't finished writing the game.

I remember there was a KS for this rpg where you would play members of a Dwarf clan called Axes and Anvils by Mike Nystul. I missed the KS, and glad I did. Shortly after, iirc, he lost his job, home, etc, and was living out of his car. This was back in 2012. No updates on the KS since 2015. Backers on that one have filed complaints with the AG in Texas where he lives.

I'm glad that I've only had issues with 2 kickstarters. 1 fulfilled the major part (the main book and most of the pdf supplements), and the other I ended up downgrading to the digital level successfully. But the majority of my KS experiences have been good. So I'm glad I dodged bullets with games like these
 
urbwar said:
The sad thing is in his own delusional state of mind, he believes he's doing some of that all ready (imho). He's released chapters for the game to backers before he decided to switch to D6 for the base system. He hasn't owned up on the print versions yet, because he still hasn't finished writing the game.

I remember there was a KS for this rpg where you would play members of a Dwarf clan called Axes and Anvils by Mike Nystul. I missed the KS, and glad I did. Shortly after, iirc, he lost his job, home, etc, and was living out of his car. This was back in 2012. No updates on the KS since 2015. Backers on that one have filed complaints with the AG in Texas where he lives.

I'm glad that I've only had issues with 2 kickstarters. 1 fulfilled the major part (the main book and most of the pdf supplements), and the other I ended up downgrading to the digital level successfully. But the majority of my KS experiences have been good. So I'm glad I dodged bullets with games like these
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I just looked that shit up. Nystul hasn't delivered any of his three successful Kickstarters. That's some kind of intense right there.
 
Jetstream said:
I just looked that shit up. Nystul hasn't delivered any of his three successful Kickstarters. That's some kind of intense right there.
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Nystul is another big piece of work. Unlike GMS, he flat out has told his backers he has no intention of fulfilling any of his KS projects*, talks about them like "oh well, that was a failure", and from what I've read on Tenkars' & other places many of his backers are pursuing legal actions. Meanwhile he's on his Facebook begging for donations to buy a 3d printer "to improve my gaming".

*His first successful KS, Nystul's Infinite Dungeon, he said this about: "A few of you have asked "why not just buckle down and do this"? An excellent question. In the case of the Infinite Dungeon it is in part because it had become something other than what i originally intended. The ashcan I sent out was a "Chapter Zero" of an intended series. So for an "Infinite Dungeon" it was a campaign guide and no actual dungeon. It was also the sort of campaign that was not just as series of dungeons, I had set the bar far too high. "

That's right, he's not going to fulfill that KS project because it wasn't turning out the way he liked. As much as I rag on GMS, this guy is in another ballpark of self-absorption.
 
TristramEvans said:
Nystul is another big piece of work. Unlike GMS, he flat out has told his backers he has no intention of fulfilling any of his KS projects*, talks about them like "oh well, that was a failure", and from what I've read on Tenkars' & other places many of his backers are pursuing legal actions. Meanwhile he's on his Facebook begging for donations to buy a 3d printer "to improve my gaming".

*His first successful KS, Nystul's Infinite Dungeon, he said this about: "A few of you have asked "why not just buckle down and do this"? An excellent question. In the case of the Infinite Dungeon it is in part because it had become something other than what i originally intended. The ashcan I sent out was a "Chapter Zero" of an intended series. So for an "Infinite Dungeon" it was a campaign guide and no actual dungeon. It was also the sort of campaign that was not just as series of dungeons, I had set the bar far too high. "

That's right, he's not going to fulfill that KS project because it wasn't turning out the way he liked. As much as I rag on GMS, this guy is in another ballpark of self-absorption.
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He said that? Where, if I may ask? All three of those Kickstarter still have people saying "When are you gonna get to this?" so I'm assuming it wasn't a backer update he used.

Though I guess maybe they're all dense enough that they don't understand that he quit?
 
Jetstream said:
He said that? Where, if I may ask?
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I'm quoting from Tenkar quoting an update on Nystul's Patreon, which has been (unfortunately due to many lulz to be had) shut down. I'm not sure if voluntarily or forcibly.

EDIT: Oh, cool, looks like it was also posted as an update on one of his KS:
www.kickstarter.com

Update 70: The Infinite Dungeon · Nystul's Infinite Dungeon

I got involved with Kickstarter because I liked the idea of a way to back an idea that might not find backing elsewhere, I had ideas that had no home and this seemed to be a good way to make them a reality. In the case of the "Infinite Dungeon" project I wanted to take my shot at creating a...
www.kickstarter.com www.kickstarter.com
 
TristramEvans said:
I'm quoting from Tenkar quoting an update on Nystul's Patreon, which has been (unfortunately due to many lulz to be had) shut down. I'm not sure if voluntarily or forcibly.
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Ah, right, got it.

Man. Every time I think about stupid nonsense like this, I just think about the Order of the Stick Kickstarter.

Rich Burlew obviously bit off more than he could chew, but by goddamn he's still producing. It might take him a decade to actually finish all that stretch goal content, but he's still doing it.

Is it too much to ask for some shame from the slackers of the Kickstarter world? :tongue:
 
48011515992_484f8b28f2_b.jpg
 
TristramEvans said:
That's right, he's not going to fulfill that KS project because it wasn't turning out the way he liked. As much as I rag on GMS, this guy is in another ballpark of self-absorption.
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Oh yeah, Nystul is far worse. There's no doubt about that.

I also saw about him begging for money to get that 3D printer (which he got the money for, proving there are still a lot of suckers out there)
 
TristramEvans said:
A highlight of the BESM thread for me was coming across GMS chewing out McKinnon about his lack of communication and honesty. In retrospect it's just fascinating

View attachment 10731
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urbwar said:
He was more than an asshole. His hypocritical bashing of other publishers is amusing to read now, given he's done far worse than anyone he ever criticised. His smug sense of supposed ethical/moral superiority was always going to be his downfall
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We have already established the man quite certainly at least has narcissistic tendencies. What they do to anyone is never a problem, but once anyone does the same thing to them all hell breaks loose.

Narcissists are prone to depression.
 
TristramEvans said:
On reflection, I will admit that I am jaded by personal experiences in regards to apologies. Spending enough time around alcoholics, liars, and manipulators, I'm incredibly cynical about apologies. There are things that simply can't be apologized for, once they are done they can never be taken back. And even when that's not the case, when an apology isn't concurrent with an actual change in behaviour, it's just a hollow attempt at appeasement.
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I've only ever seen the opportunity to apologise used to play down and deflect one's own responsibility, to 'blame the victim', to generally try and make the offended feel guilty. So yeah, not really interested in apologies, I just want to see actual improvement of behaviour.

The only advantage of hearing an apology is that it'll let you know what kind of person you're dealing with.
 
Kickstarter themselves could do a lot more to combat failed Kickstarters from the same people. Failures don't really affect their business model though, as they get their money first after a successful funding.

The Far West drama? Well, how long can it go on? Seems like it should hit the 10 yr mark fairly easily. I'm not a backer, but I'm waiting to see his switch over to a Tiny D6 version in.... 2021?
 
ORtrail said:
Kickstarter themselves could do a lot more to combat failed Kickstarters from the same people. Failures don't really affect their business model though, as they get their money first after a successful funding.

The Far West drama? Well, how long can it go on? Seems like it should hit the 10 yr mark fairly easily. I'm not a backer, but I'm waiting to see his switch over to a Tiny D6 version in.... 2021?
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Hahahahah, Alan almost certainly wouldn't let him.
 
ORtrail said:
Perfect. He can say, "Guys, this is all DONE, but Alan is holding things up!"

After edit: Maybe I shouldn't be giving him any ideas.....
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Of one thing I am certain: If he lied about someone allowing him to use their system, that's absolutely fraud.

And if he uses them "holding it up" as an excuse after they've clearly said "no" in the first place, that's probably libel.
 
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