Favorite old school weapon & armor lists

Best Selling RPGs - Available Now @ DriveThruRPG.com
Necrozius

Necrozius

Legendary Pubber
Joined
Apr 25, 2017
Messages
4,289
Reaction score
10,604
I'm planning my upcoming Labyrinth Lord / Beyond the Wall campaign soon.

Next thing is setting up a good list of weapons and armor for the PCs.

While I'm inviting folks to share whatever they think is best, I'm ultimately going to be on the lookout for anything that happens to satisfy my mental list of requirements:
  • a clear progression of quality (eg. crappy starter sword > okay, but slightly more expensive sword > amazing sword that I'm so gonna save up for)

  • more expensive items (not necessarily magical) that will tantalize the PCs and make them save up gold

  • simplicity (not too many fancy rules tacked on)

  • helmets! because they're fun

So yeah, what are you favorite old school (eg. D&D and OSR) weapon and armor lists? What makes them special to you?
 
I'm not usually too big on weapon lists but I do like the equipment/weapon lists in Into the Odd which are laid out in complete packs for quick pick-up and play. The 2e Arms and Equipment Guide with the blue cover is full of lovely, detailed illustrations of weapons, armor, clothes, etc.
 
Does The Riddle of Steel count as old-school, given it was well over a decade since it was published?

If not, then Zenobia/43 AD and Maelstrom take the lead (and arguably Classic Traveller, too). I just like it when even non magical weapons add to your attack chances!
 
Last edited:
Voros said:
I'm not usually too big on weapon lists but I do like the equipment/weapon lists in Into the Odd which are laid out in complete packs for quick pick-up and play. The 2e Arms and Equipment Guide with the blue cover is full of lovely, detailed illustrations of weapons, armor, clothes, etc.
Click to expand...


Though IIRC it still gets the Khopesh wrong. Very irritating.
 
Well, old school as in anything that works well with old D&D and its many OSR spawn/copy cats.

But I'm open to ideas! FIne balance between simple set up with a nice progression. Stuff on the store shelves that the PCs salivate over well before they can afford them.
 
Didn't Lamentations of the Flame Princess has a reasonable list with prices by city size? Sort of a different dimension than just quality but I thought it was nicely done.
 
No one seems willing to use the weapon vs. armor type rules in 1E AD+D, but they were among the most realistic abstract treatments of medieval arms and armor ever published. Whatever you make of D+D's abstract to-hit and damage mechanics, the end results you get with this table are very nuanced and mostly realistic.

If you are willing to think of a game first published in 1985 as part of the OSR, then GURPS has the best 'granular' treatment of the interaction of arms and armor. By a wide margin.
 
Necrozius said:
Well, old school as in anything that works well with old D&D and its many OSR spawn/copy cats.
Click to expand...
As I've stated before, I see no reason to tie old school with a single system.

But I'm open to ideas! FIne balance between simple set up with a nice progression. Stuff on the store shelves that the PCs salivate over well before they can afford them.
Click to expand...
Exalted 1e should fit that bill, I guess...:evil:

Moonglum said:
No one seems willing to use the weapon vs. armor type rules in 1E AD+D, but they were among the most realistic abstract treatments of medieval arms and armor ever published. Whatever you make of D+D's abstract to-hit and damage mechanics, the end results you get with this table are very nuanced and mostly realistic.

If you are willing to think of a game first published in 1985 as part of the OSR, then GURPS has the best 'granular' treatment of the interaction of arms and armor. By a wide margin.
Click to expand...
What do you mean, "nobody"? Countless Traveller players have been using it since Classic Traveller was published in 1977:smile:.
And I actually named CT in my examples, above.

Also, in the OSR the same tables - or rather those from Chainmail - form the basis for the Spellcraft & Swordplay clone. There's a free "quickstart" version to check, though it regretfully omits the rules for improvised actions:wink:. Still, the core combat system itself should be in it!
 
AsenRG said:
As I've stated before, I see no reason to tie old school with a single system.


Exalted 1e should fit that bill, I guess...:evil:


What do you mean, "nobody"? Countless Traveller players have been using it since Classic Traveller was published in 1977:smile:.
And I actually named CT in my examples, above.

Also, in the OSR the same tables - or rather those from Chainmail - form the basis for the Spellcraft & Swordplay clone. There's a free "quickstart" version to check, though it regretfully omits the rules for improvised actions:wink:. Still, the core combat system itself should be in it!
Click to expand...
What turns me off from using the weapon vs armor tables in D&D is that it doesn't cover monster armor. You need to make it up. I also feel like I have some issues with some of the numbers, but I can't totally place why (because I don't have issue with the Traveller numbers). It feels like there's some "super" weapons.

Traveller on the other hand rates animal armor in terms of the standard armor types.

Frank
 
OK, to clarify: for my upcoming Labyrinth Lord campaign, I’m interested in weapons and Armor systems from roughly comparable and compatible systems, hence my mention of D&D and OSR. There are plenty of other RPGs out there with vastly more interesting weapons and Armor lists, I agree!

That’s why they were brought up in the first place. If you think a weapon system from some other game (eg, Tunnels and Trolls) would work, that’s interesting news to me. I’ll check it out.
 
I've used the equipment lists from Hackmaster in D&D before. It's super long and involved, and the fun you can have with their treasure tables is amazing. Like when the players find the 'treasure' from the goblin cave is a store of preserved meats, and decide that rather than being all butt-hurt about it, they're going to set up a sausage-inna-bun stand at the village during the next festival and "Get my goddamn money's worth out of this!" For weapons, one thing that HM does is that all weapons with a +1 to +5 are explicitly non-magical; they're just extensions of masterwork up to +5.

Another thought for weapons is borrowing the page from Skyrim:

(image didn't attach properly, removed)

Which came from this page.
 
While Tunnels and Trolls has a great list of weapons it really only differentiates them in terms of Strength and Dexterity requirements and Damage.

Supposedly the earliest versions of Rolemaster's weapon tables were based on D&D's weapon verses armour type adjustment.

I always feel Palladium did a good job of differentiating weapons, perhaps the best this side of GURPS, different weapons are better at striking, parrying, and throwing than others and get different modifiers accordingly.
 
Yes, 1E AD+D blew it by not integrating monsters into the weapon vs. armor type table. And a few of the weapons have stupid stats. But it's still the best OSR treatment of the issue out there, at lest for the case of humanoids fighting with medieval sorts of armors and weapons.
 
So after quickly reviewing all of the options, I'm thinking of doing the following for this upcoming campaign. Note that there are some abstractions going on here!

Materials (cost?)
  • Bone: no change (default damage). In this fantasy setting, bone is the baseline standard.
  • Bronze: +1 damage (non-magical)
  • Iron: +2 damage (non-magical)
  • Steel: +3 damage (non-magical). Is this too much? The cost would be extremely high.
Alternative:
  • Bone: no change. Breaks on an attack roll of 1. (not crazy about this, but this type of item would be plentiful and cheap)
  • Bronze: no change.
  • Iron: +1 damage
  • Steel: +2 damage

Weapons
  • d4: small and concealable (small knives, daggers and claws). 1 in each hand: deal 2d4 damage instead.
  • d6: lighter and good in cramped spaces (short sword, hand axe). Can be paired with a d4 weapon, adding their damage.
  • d8: longer but less useful in cramped spaces (long sword, short spear, battle axe). If used with both hands, upgrade to d10 damage.
  • d10: polearms and great weapons (spear, longsword). Requires both hands to use. Has reach!
Nothing is set in stone. What do you think? The notes about cramped spaces would be situational and thematic (a spear would be great in a narrow corridor because you can just thrust forward to stab, while a battle axe would be a bit more awkward).
 
If you wanted to go deeper into the situational utility of different weapons (based on length) you could differentiate between 'melee' combat and 'close' combat. In the latter the combatants would be in really close, practically grappling, and a dagger would be much more useful than, say, a longsword. The old Dragonquest rpg had rules for this.

Also, personally, I would have bronze weapons be vulnerable to breakages.
 
dokel said:
Also, personally, I would have bronze weapons be vulnerable to breakages.
Click to expand...
Maybe bone breaks on a critical as well? I.e., Bone weapons break on a roll of 1 or 20. Whereas Bronze breaks only on a 1? I dunno.

Hence the charm of magical weapons: they are above this worry.
 
Necrozius said:
So after quickly reviewing all of the options, I'm thinking of doing the following for this upcoming campaign. Note that there are some abstractions going on here!

Materials (cost?)
  • Bone: no change (default damage). In this fantasy setting, bone is the baseline standard.
  • Bronze: +1 damage (non-magical)
  • Iron: +2 damage (non-magical)
  • Steel: +3 damage (non-magical). Is this too much? The cost would be extremely high.
Alternative:
  • Bone: no change. Breaks on an attack roll of 1. (not crazy about this, but this type of item would be plentiful and cheap)
  • Bronze: no change.
  • Iron: +1 damage
  • Steel: +2 damage

Weapons
  • d4: small and concealable (small knives, daggers and claws). 1 in each hand: deal 2d4 damage instead.
  • d6: lighter and good in cramped spaces (short sword, hand axe). Can be paired with a d4 weapon, adding their damage.
  • d8: longer but less useful in cramped spaces (long sword, short spear, battle axe). If used with both hands, upgrade to d10 damage.
  • d10: polearms and great weapons (spear, longsword). Requires both hands to use. Has reach!
Nothing is set in stone. What do you think? The notes about cramped spaces would be situational and thematic (a spear would be great in a narrow corridor because you can just thrust forward to stab, while a battle axe would be a bit more awkward).
Click to expand...
Under those rules, the best weapons combo becomes short spear and dagger, while polearms are only useful for the reach. 1d6+1d4 (av. 6) basically trumps 1d10 (av. 5,5) every day, and it becomes worse as you add material bonuses, getting to 1d6+1d4+4/6 (av10/12) vs 1d10+2/3 (av.7,5/8,5).
Also, two daggers beat a short sword even worse (2d4 vs 1d6), which...frankly, makes no sense to me:smile:.
IMO, under standard D&D-like mechanics, using two weapons should grant at most a +1 damage to the larger weapon:wink:.
 
Yeah that was brainstorming without too much thought. Just trying to get the ball rolling.

My goal is to:

- have different weapon material qualities (from cheap to expensive)
- mechanical differences between each material
- mechanical differences (pros and cons) between each weapon type (or size)

Perhaps this is too complex for something aimed at kids anyway?
 
Necrozius said:
Yeah that was brainstorming without too much thought. Just trying to get the ball rolling.

My goal is to:

- have different weapon material qualities (from cheap to expensive)
- mechanical differences between each material
- mechanical differences (pros and cons) between each weapon type (or size)

Perhaps this is too complex for something aimed at kids anyway?
Click to expand...
Then go for weapon vs armour tables where no weapon is One Weapon To Rule Them All, and track the available space well. The first time your 2 bastard sword-wielding players, needing 1,5 meters of space each, face 4 guys with Roman shields and short spears in a 10-foot corridor, would easily become a memorable one.
In other words, go for Spellcraft and Swordplay.
 
Is there a handy add-on for such weapon vs armor tables for how it applies to monsters?
 
OR simply go back to damage vulnerabilities/resistances vs. slashing, piercing and bludgeoning?

BUT then we get back to abstracing what's a piercing vs slashing vs bludgeoning...
 
Necrozius said:
Is there a handy add-on for such weapon vs armor tables for how it applies to monsters?
Click to expand...
It's kinda the other way around. The monster stats are written assuming the use of the table...so they automatically refer you to the necessary column.
Also, since there's a table telling you what kind of armour corresponds to what AC number, you can easily approximate unknown monsters of your own devising. So, I'd say a turtle monster would have AC 8, same as full plate, but possibly give your roll to hit a +1 bonus due to being slow. And so on.

For humans and humanoids, you simply refer to the necessary column, as determined by their AC number (numbers correspond to armour types). To preserve that, you should probably use the labelled-as-optional* rule where shields grant a penalty to the to-hit roll, but don't move you to a different column.


Well, that's what I would have done if I was you. Of course, if I was me**, I'd have used Zenobia, CT or Maelstrom***, which make a much better job of differentiating weapons, IMO...but that's me, and you're not me.

*But IMO it's meant to be used.
**As is the case whenever I'm not giving advice in such threads:grin:!
***As per my first post.
 
Naw I've finally settled on Labyrinth Lord merged with Beyond the Wall for this campaign.

I'm having some trouble finding all of this information (weapon vs. armor) so I'll go with something different.

Types:
  • d4: can be used in offhand (instead of attacking with it, it can grant a passive +1 damage bonus to your other hand weapon)
  • d6: can be used as tools in a variety of encounters/situations (bonus to ability checks for non-combat encounters)
  • d8: one handed (pair with a d4 weapon or a shield) or two handed (upgrades to d10 damage)
  • d10: 2--handed, but has reach
Materials:
  • Bronze (default price and stats)
  • Iron +1 (x5 value, bonus to damage)
  • Steel +2 (x10 value, bonus to damage)

Er... are those prices reasonable?
 
Perhaps the +1 bonus from materials is to hit, not damage?

Example: an Iron shortsword would grant a +1 to hit. Not to damage.

That might make things a bit simpler and less wonky.... would it?

For the cost, I'd probably still use some formula based on the Rules Cyclopedia for making magic items.

It was base cost of weapon mutliplied by encumbrance value (1 lb = 10 enc.) then multiplied by 5. I'd probably do a similar calculation, but since these are not magical, nor do they give a bonus to damage, it would be less.
 
Okay values and more details:

Bronze is the baseline. No change in price.

Iron is +1 to hit. Mutliply price by 10.

Steel is +2 to hit. Multiply price by 100.

D4 weapons are small and concealable. They include daggers and fist (claws). If held in off-hand, can passively provide +1 damage to primary hand weapon. 4gp / 40gp / 400gp

D6 weapons are light and practical. They include short swords, hammers and axes. They can provide bonuses to ability checks in non-combat encounters because they are great as tools. 8gp / 80gp / 800gp

d8 weapons are hefty and martial. They include long swords, battle axes and short spears. If held with both hands, the damage die goes up to d10. 16gp / 160gp / 1600gp

d10 weapons are heavy and long. They include greatswords and pole arms. They are two-handed but have reach. 32gp / 320gp / 3200gp

Still working on this, but it's getting better!
 
Necrozius said:
Perhaps the +1 bonus from materials is to hit, not damage?
Click to expand...
I'd advise against it, but it's your game:smile:.
Of course, you might want to split the Steel bonus into +1/+1...and finally a +1 sword would mean something:grin:!
 
“And a 10ft pole” for Rolemaster is a massive list of items across multiple eras. If you want to be a crafter with a bajillion items and options to make, there is no better system than Rolemaster.
 
Necrozius said:
OR simply go back to damage vulnerabilities/resistances vs. slashing, piercing and bludgeoning?
Click to expand...

I somehow think it makes sense (?) that skeletons should take less damage from piercing weapons and maybe more from bludgeoning weapons.
 
I sheepishly admit having some desire to mirror the very first Dragon Warrior game on NES. So there is a bit of “video game” in my plans.

Now that you folks have had a glimpse of my madness, how would you handle the progression of non-magical weapon qualities?
 
You know? I might just do that: group weapons by damage type or at least minimize things into categories that are more effective against different types.

Bludgeoning (eg, mace, hammer, club) vs. Undead and constructs

Stabbing (eg, spear, dagger, shortsword) vs. humanoids and living animals

Slashing (eg, axes, longswords) vs. oozes and plants

Or something like that? Would a system like that make sense?
 
Necrozius said:
I sheepishly admit having some desire to mirror the very first Dragon Warrior game on NES. So there is a bit of “video game” in my plans.

Now that you folks have had a glimpse of my madness, how would you handle the progression of non-magical weapon qualities?
Click to expand...

Apologies for the tangent. I've actually been playing Diablo (the first one), since it showed up on GOG recently. That might explain why I have skeletons on the brain :smile: It also makes me think that you could come up with a list of quality tags for weapons - e.g. 'rusty', 'crude', 'Dwarven' etc. You could combine these with the material tag so you might have, for example, a 'crude bronze dagger' - perhaps 'crude' means it's -1 to hit and bronze means that there's a chance of it breaking on a fumble. Or something like that.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Banner: The best cosmic horror & Cthulhu Mythos @ DriveThruRPG.com
Back
Top