Free League is back at it with the Walking Dead rpg

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BedrockBrendan

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Yeah, there's gruesome/horrific/bleak stuff in the comics that was never going to make it into the TV show.
I generally liked the characters in the comic better as well.

The guy on the show seemed like a good actor, but I liked the character of Negan much better in the comics than the series (I'm not even sure what it was exactly I think I just imagined his delivery being much different, and the physique didn't quite match the character----normally not important but Negan's physique felt important to the character)
 

Tommy Brownell

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The guy on the show seemed like a good actor, but I liked the character of Negan much better in the comics than the series (I'm not even sure what it was exactly I think I just imagined his delivery being much different, and the physique didn't quite match the character----normally not important but Negan's physique felt important to the character)
Negan ran me right off from the comics.

The Governor was already a bad, over the top, parody of a villain and they managed to make someone even more so. I was impressed.

Meanwhile, the show did an amazing job with The Governor, IMHO. Making him feel somewhat nuanced.
 

BedrockBrendan

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Negan ran me right off from the comics.

The Governor was already a bad, over the top, parody of a villain and they managed to make someone even more so. I was impressed.

Meanwhile, the show did an amazing job with The Governor, IMHO. Making him feel somewhat nuanced.

I liked the Governor in the show. The actor who played him really sold the role too. With the comic he felt pulled out of GI Joe to me (mainly the visual depiction more than anything else). I like over the top villains. The governor just didn't land with me in the comics. But Negan I rather enjoyed (though certainly he was an over the top bad guy).
 

BedrockBrendan

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Meanwhile, the show did an amazing job with The Governor, IMHO. Making him feel somewhat nuanced.

I think I preferred how the show was deviating more from the comics to that point, and I probably started to get bored shortly after they changed show runners (I think towards the end of the Governor's storyline). But stayed on until the Negan storyline started in the show.
 

Tommy Brownell

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I liked the Governor in the show. The actor who played him really sold the role too. With the comic he felt pulled out of GI Joe to me (mainly the visual depiction more than anything else). I like over the top villains. The governor just didn't land with me in the comics. But Negan I rather enjoyed (though certainly he was an over the top bad guy).
I like over the top villains in general.

They just felt very out of place there, IMO.
I think I preferred how the show was deviating more from the comics to that point, and I probably started to get bored shortly after they changed show runners (I think towards the end of the Governor's storyline). But stayed on until the Negan storyline started in the show.
I thought several of the deviations from the comics worked great. (And a few did not.)
 

finarvyn

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I thought that the early Walking Dead was particularly good. Having the crew just outside of Atlanta, and making supply runs into the city, seems like the nucleus of a great campaign. Even season #2 with the whole farmhouse in the boonies was kind of fun, since it was like having some sort of base of operations in the wilderness.

I think as we got to parts where there was "civilization" and folks were super-organized with walls and such -- well, those parts started to make me lose interest. Survival was a lot more fun (to me) than characters living in "safe zones." Both the Governor and Negan may be great badguys, but the tone of the series was very different by that point.
 

lategamer

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I think this all supports the ideas that TWD was the end result of an existing saturation of Zombies and didn't bring a single thing to the table. It's a relationship drama that happens to have zombies in it. It didn't add anything to the genre.

28 Days Later added something to the genre.
World War Z (the movie) added something.
Shaun of the Dead added something.

TWD had some super interesting characters (Dale, T-Dog, Herschel) that they killed off. Now, not so much. Princess and Eugene are the only interesting characters left. Maybe if they kept Lori and made her BPD and a little less angelic eh?
 

Skywalker

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I think this all supports the ideas that TWD was the end result of an existing saturation of Zombies and didn't bring a single thing to the table. It's a relationship drama that happens to have zombies in it. It didn't add anything to the genre.
I think that’s unnecessarily dismissive of the impact and success of the TWD. The comic book started in 2003 which was amidst the peak of zombie survival horror with 28 Days Later, Shaun of the Dead, and World War Z the book.

The one thing the comic series brought to the table was to take the zombie survival genre beyond the bounds of a film and answer the question as to where all these stories may lead over time. There was not really anything that did that before TWD except in movie sequels which tended to be new standalone stories. World War Z the book did something similar 3 years later.

The highlights of the comic series were all those moments where it explored the long term story aspects of this genre including the consequences and impact of all those things we see in zombie movies. This was capitalised on further with the well regarded Tell Tale computer game series that seemed to focus on these kinds of choices and consequences.

The long form story format opened up zombie survival horror up to the TV format 7 years later, and TWD TV show is a testament to the comic’s success. The show extended the zombie genre’s popularity but it was well into decline by the time it hit. I am surprised it lasted so long. I also think TWD is a good source of inspiration for RPGs as one of the few examples of what a campaign might look like.

Thats not to say I am excited about this TWD RPG. I just think you can hav Le that view without trying to bring down TWD with it.
 

Toadmaster

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The long form story format opened up zombie survival horror up to the TV format 7 years later, and TWD TV show is a testament to the comic’s success. The show extended the zombie genre’s popularity but it was well into decline by the time it hit. I am surprised it lasted so long. I also think TWD is a good source of inspiration for RPGs as one of the few examples of what a campaign might look like.

Agree, the TWD zombies are nothing new, but a long term format zombie survival story is unusual. World War Z took a longer term view than most (covers several years), but its format as a novel and 2 hour film is still compressed into a fairly short term for the reader / viewer.
 

Skywalker

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Agree, the TWD zombies are nothing new, but a long term format zombie survival story is unusual. World War Z took a longer term view than most (covers several years), but its format as a novel and 2 hour film is still compressed into a fairly short term for the reader / viewer.
I remember Robert Kirkman citing that as his main inspiration for the series when he started it.

The fact that TWD's innovation is in the form of the narrative rather than in anything in the substance, does mean that if you look at any specific story or scene there seems nothing all that original or impactful in it. However, I remember in 2003 that having a new zombie property that dialed the genre back to the original Romero formula for the substance as being particularly appealing to me, when everything else was adding fast zombies and other new concepts. It felt like it added depth to the genre, when everything else was trying to add breadth.

Again, this is nothing that really sells an RPG based on the IP 20 years after that IP first hit.
 

lategamer

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I think that’s unnecessarily dismissive of the impact and success of the TWD. The comic book started in 2003 which was amidst the peak of zombie survival horror with 28 Days Later, Shaun of the Dead, and World War Z the book.
I was specifically talking about the TV series, rather than the comic (which languished in relative obscurity).

What made the numbers in TV was the relationship drama. The infidelity subplot that was resolved WAY too soon. The loss of great characters very quickly and the resurrection of some ...

Always seems to be your worst enemy that you killed, turning up for revenge as a zombie.
 

Skywalker

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I was specifically talking about the TV series, rather than the comic (which languished in relative obscurity).
I wouldn't say that the comic series has languished in relative obscurity - no more than any comic series that is 20 years old. Surely, the TV show itself is a testament to the comics enduring popularity. I can't think of many non Marvel/DC super hero comic series that have achieved the same level of popularity and success.
 

lategamer

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I wouldn't say that the comic series has languished in relative obscurity - no more than any comic series that is 20 years old. Surely, the TV show itself is a testament to the comics enduring popularity. I can't think of many non Marvel/DC super hero comic series that have achieved the same level of popularity and success.
You can say or not say it - but the comic was limited to a coming audience. The TV show was a testament to some serious talent in the show runners. The comic audience might have been decent but the series was won on the strength of a pitch that they could turn it into damn fine television. Which they did for half a dozen seasons.

Are there any non-Marvel/DC super hero series? Couple of obscure ones on Netflix? What have super heroes got to do with it?
 

Skywalker

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That difference seems more to do with the medium than anything else. TV shows have a wider reach than comics. Despite that, the comic series is generally more highly regarded than the TV show and I expect it will have a longer legacy.

There are superhero comic series that have achieved immense popularity and adaptation to other medium such as the MCU. However, for a black and white comic series not about superheroes from a lesser known publisher, its hard to think of one that has been as successful as The Walking Dead and for the length of time that it has been.
 

lategamer

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That difference seems more to do with the medium than anything else. TV shows have a wider reach than comics. Despite that, the comic series is generally more highly regarded than the TV show and I expect it will have a longer legacy.

There are superhero comic series that have achieved immense popularity and adaptation to other medium such as the MCU. However, for a black and white comic series not about superheroes from a lesser known publisher, its hard to think of one that has been as successful as The Walking Dead and for the length of time that it has been.

Comic series tend to go to movies I guess. TWD the comic was part of the rising zeitgeist (I published my ZOMBI RPG rules in around 2000). 28 Days Later was 2002. Shaun of the Dead was 2004. TWD the TV series was 2010. World War Z the movie was 2013.

Now? A zombie movie is derivative. Our local film funder said in a press conference about 5 years ago that they wouldn't be taking on any more zombie scripts. The medium was just done. Wait a few more years and it'll be back in vogue.

Having read both the comic and watched the TV series - I think the TV series is actually better. I mean, the plots last longer in the comic but the direction is better. Better storylines, better interpersonals (but it's hardly fair to compare the original comic with the TV series considering the investment of time, money and talent in the latter.) It's ok to have preferences, right?

(For other comics that have made the transition? Especially non superhero ones? John Wick? He's a bit of a superhero.......uh, help me out there)
 

Toadmaster

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I was specifically talking about the TV series, rather than the comic (which languished in relative obscurity).

What made the numbers in TV was the relationship drama. The infidelity subplot that was resolved WAY too soon. The loss of great characters very quickly and the resurrection of some ...

Always seems to be your worst enemy that you killed, turning up for revenge as a zombie.

Most horror is a relationship drama, and it is particularly true with zombie stories. I can't think of a zombie movie where this isn't the case. In some cases the feelings of the zombies even play into the drama, like Warm Bodies where they explore things from the zombies side. Fido and Shawn of the Dead also explored zombie / human interaction beyond just "Brains".
 

Skywalker

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It's ok to have preferences, right?
That’s totally cool. I am only responding to your comments that the TWD IP is not impactful or popular.
(For other comics that have made the transition? Especially non superhero ones? John Wick? He's a bit of a superhero.......uh, help me out there)
That’s my point :smile: TWD really does stand out in its success for what it is.
 

Gringnr

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IMO, TWD comics have terrible dialogue. People talking like they're at their therapist alla damn time. Comes off as stilted, awkward.



I liked that Deadworld had some intelligent zombies, and that the zeds themselves were part of an attempted invasion of our world by the forces of darkness. The intelligent zombies, though few and far between, were leaders of the zeds, and served their dark masters. It kind of broke the monotony of a single type of foe, which holds up better in a 90-minute movie than it does a ten-season TV show.
 

Gringnr

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Also move to where it's always snowing. A frozen solid zombie isn't going to bite you.
 

BedrockBrendan

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In terms of innovation, I don't know. I think Krueger got it right with treating zombies as a kind of background nuisance that occasionally spikes in danger, and the long form format of both the comic and the show definitely made it interesting and compelling for me when it was first brought to my attention (I'm not a huge comic or graphic novel person so I don't know if this is something that had been explored before in that medium). And I also agree with the back to Romero basics of it. To me it was more about it standing out against what the trends of the time were. It came out when Zombies had been transforming and pushing the envelop for a number of years and going back to 'if you die, regardless of why, you become a zombie' really was kind of interesting in that environment.
 

EmperorNorton

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Honestly the only zombie thing that I've really thought felt different recently is Kingdom, a South Korean show that is set in the early 1600s of Korea and is part period political drama, part zombie show. It's pretty good.
 

BedrockBrendan

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Honestly the only zombie thing that I've really thought felt different recently is Kingdom, a South Korean show that is set in the early 1600s of Korea and is part period political drama, part zombie show. It's pretty good.

I haven't seen that yet but it struck me as a cool concept when I heard about it (I am usually a few years late getting to shows and movie these days)
 

BedrockBrendan

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True, but some humans have been successfully living in bitterly cold climates for centuries, if not millennia, and many more could doubtless learn to do so.

Sure, you can definitely survive in cold environments. I think it is just easy to underestimate if you aren't used to contending with it. We once ran out of oil during winter and I was genuinely surprised by the level of cold we experienced for just a few days. Surviving the cold during a zombie apocalypse I think could prove very challenging (especially since in TWD people who die of any cause become a zombie, so once you build that nice warm shelter, it is never truly safe so long as there are people there)
 

Gringnr

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Yeah, but people aren't used to living in a zombie apocalypse, either. Dealing with the occasional death from natural causes or the environment would be preferable to a temperate zone crawling with undead.






And, to your point, most major services, utilities etc. being out of commission would kill a lot of city dwellers as surely as a blizzard would.
 

Toadmaster

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In terms of innovation, I don't know. I think Krueger got it right with treating zombies as a kind of background nuisance that occasionally spikes in danger, and the long form format of both the comic and the show definitely made it interesting and compelling for me when it was first brought to my attention (I'm not a huge comic or graphic novel person so I don't know if this is something that had been explored before in that medium). And I also agree with the back to Romero basics of it. To me it was more about it standing out against what the trends of the time were. It came out when Zombies had been transforming and pushing the envelop for a number of years and going back to 'if you die, regardless of why, you become a zombie' really was kind of interesting in that environment.

Sure take Alfred Hitchcock's Lifeboat, if you replace the sea with zombies you have still basically have the plot of your standard zombie flick.
 

BedrockBrendan

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Yeah, but people aren't used to living in a zombie apocalypse, either. Dealing with the occasional death from natural causes or the environment would be preferable to a temperate zone crawling with undead.






And, to your point, most major services, utilities etc. being out of commission would kill a lot of city dwellers as surely as a blizzard would.


Sure take Alfred Hitchcock's Lifeboat, if you replace the sea with zombies you have still basically have the plot of your standard zombie flick.

The Lifeboat is an apt comparison. I think it largely depends on the franchise, as some zombie apocalypses are presented as more lethal and catastrophic than others, but TWD takes an approach where it seems to be a manageable threat if you are smart and know what you are doing. I think venturing into a place of perpetual cold would be possible solution but my point again is it isn't going to be as easy as people might assume. And I am not sure that it is the safer bet in TWD universe (because I am sure you may also be contending with other people in that environment, not just working together with others). Not only do you have the cold itself to deal with, the snow, and all the things that make survival difficult if you don't have things like basic utilities and infrastructure, but you have serious issues growing food. And you have to do all that survival in the cold. Anyone who lives in a cold area knows the difficulty of being in the snow for an hour working on something. It can certainly be done. I do think it would result in a pretty significant death toll for the group though. Obviously people have survived in cold conditions for thousands of years, but it often does take a large toll on people who aren't accustomed to it.
 
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