Game of Thrones: Who lives, who dies? [SPOILERS]

[Voros]

I was half-expecting the last shot to be of a White Walker just beyond the tree line.

I think the WW are gone for at least another thousand years.

I liked it, I said to my wife after the fourth episode, next episode is the death of Cercei and then the last episode will be an epilogue, which is pretty much what it was.

The Double Indemnity ending for Jon and Dany and the irony of Jon returning to the Night’s Watch worked for me. Tormund and Jon had a conversation earlier where Jon said he was happiest when among the Wildlings so it is a happy ending for him although he certainly hasn’t been lucky in love.

I agree they could have done more with Bran leading up to this but it once he was chosen it made perfect sense that this is what he was destined to be.

 

[Voros]

Don't forget the tits... lots and lots of gratuitous tits...

No such thing as gratuitous tits.

I’m with J.G. Ballard who thought there should be more not less sex in popular culture. Compared to the 70s US culture is more puritan today than ever, that so much is made of a few nude scenes in a TV show reinforces that.

 

[Ghost Whistler]

A 2 year gap between seasons is 'rushed' only in the very loosest of senses.

I think that refers not to the production/writing schedule but the passage of time in the story itself which certainly was rushed. One minute they're at Dragonstone, the next at the Fist of the First Men. One minute they're at the Wall, the next they're at King's Landing.

 

[Ghost Whistler]

I think the WW are gone for at least another thousand years.

I liked it, I said to my wife after the fourth episode, next episode is the death of Cercei and then the last episode will be an epilogue, which is pretty much what it was.

The Double Indemnity ending for Jon and Dany and the irony of Jon returning to the Night’s Watch worked for me. Tormund and Jon had a conversation earlier where Jon said he was happiest when among the Wildlings so it is a happy ending for him although he certainly hasn’t been lucky in love.

I agree they could have done more with Bran leading up to this but it once he was chosen it made perfect sense that this is what he was destined to be.

Not entirely sure what purpose the Night's Watch is meant to serve given that they Wall is fucked and the Night King is dead and we're all chums with the wildlings. Literally nothing there for them to do.

 

[Voros]

Not entirely sure what purpose the Night's Watch is meant to serve given that they Wall is fucked and the Night King is dead and we're all chums with the wildlings. Literally nothing there for them to do.

The NK and the WW were defeated thousands of years ago previously. There’s nothing to say they won’t return again, everyone thought they weren’t going to return/didn’t exist at the beginning of the series.

And considering how much wheel-spinning you see in a lot of series (including Dany in the South for this series) I found it refreshing that they kept things moving. Lord knows that isn’t true of the books.

 

[Edgewise]

The final episode wasn't as bad as the ones that preceded it. Most of the final resolution worked, although I don't understand Tyrion's argument for King Bran at all. Something about stories. This episode did a lot of nodding at the meta-text ("'A Song of Ice and Fire,' you say?"). Dany's death, however, made a lot of sense, and I actually felt really bad for the dragon. He was definitely the most sympathetic character, here. Sending Jon to the wall made a lot of sense, although I kind of feel that Tyrion has no reason to be Hand since he has given poor advice for something like three seasons. Sansa declaring independence made a lot of sense.

 

[Stevethulhu]

And considering how much wheel-spinning you see in a lot of series (including Dany in the South for this series) I found it refreshing that they kept things moving. Lord knows that isn’t true of the books.

The last couple of books are basically all wheel spinning. People travelling endlessly, but never quite getting anywhere. I coined the phrase Travelogue Fantasy after reading the Song of Ice and Fire books. Then realised just how many fantasy epics it really applies to. Witcher, I'm looking at you.

 

[CRKrueger]

I wonder how much peace there will be...

Sansa asks for an Independent North. Bran gives her a sideways look and then just nods.

His first encounter with his Council...

• We have no Spymaster
• We have no Warmaster
• Anyone know where that Dragon went?
• Let me see if I can find him

You think he knows Sansa, aka Littlefinger Jr. is about to become A Problem?

 

[Séadna]

I actually felt really bad for the dragon. He was definitely the most sympathetic character, here

He seemed to come across as a bit more sentient than normal in that scene. Just the way he looked at Jon and what seemed to be the purposeful burning of the throne.

I wonder if magic is now back in a more permanent way that the maesters can use?

 

[Voros]

He seemed to come across as a bit more sentient than normal in that scene. Just the way he looked at Jon and what seemed to be the purposeful burning of the throne.

I wonder if magic is now back in a more permanent way that the maesters can use?

I can't recall if this is clearer in the book: does the return of the dragons bring back magic or is the return of the dragons a sign of the return of magic?

 

[Stevethulhu]

I csn't recall if this is clearer in the book: does the return of the dragons bring back magic or is the return of the dragons a sign of the return of magic?

It's a bit vague. But the Others and the dragons appearing seems connected on a metaphysical level when you look at it that way.

 

[Edgewise]

I wonder if magic is now back in a more permanent way that the maesters can use?

If the books are ever finished, I have a feeling they'll delve much deeper into that question. The books kept hinting at interesting things going on with the Maesters, but the show had no interest in issues of magic and metaphysics.

 

[Baeraad]

No such thing as gratuitous tits.

I’m with J.G. Ballard who thought there should be more not less sex in popular culture. Compared to the 70s US culture is more puritan today than ever, that so much is made of a few nude scenes in a TV show reinforces that.

It turns out there is, because the first few seasons of GoT had me, to my great surprise, actually express the sentiment of, "nooooo, no more tits! Please, no more tits! Make the tits go 'WAY! "

Apparently I have an upper limit for how many attractive actresses I want to see with their clothes off. This was not something I particularly wanted to know about myself, but it's something that GoT taught me all the same.

I mean, you're not wrong about US culture being weirdly puritanical (especially from my libertine European perspective), but... there was a few seasons during which the amount of fanservice on this show was truly ridiculous.

 

[dbm]

Watched it last night, really enjoyed it. I think it was a very GoT ending.

I wonder how much peace there will be...

Sansa asks for an Independent North. Bran gives her a sideways look and then just nods.

His first encounter with his Council...

• We have no Spymaster
• We have no Warmaster
• Anyone know where that Dragon went?
• Let me see if I can find him

You think he knows Sansa, aka Littlefinger Jr. is about to become A Problem?

I think it is a given that there will be friction. This is not a happy ending, just the closing of an epic chapter.

He seemed to come across as a bit more sentient than normal in that scene. Just the way he looked at Jon and what seemed to be the purposeful burning of the throne.

I wonder if magic is now back in a more permanent way that the maesters can use?

There are many references in the book that hint in magic increasing across the world. And many other references that show it used to be much greater in the past (the Wall being the prime example). Given the talk about the prequel (which includes Bran the Builder, but allegedly no dragons) it must be the case that dragons are a symptom, not the cause. The Sorcerers of Qarth just jump to the wrong assumption?

There are also hints in the book IIRC (read them a long time ago, now) that warging is used to control the dragons. So maybe he is finally free from her influence?

 

[TJS]

The last couple of books are basically all wheel spinning. People travelling endlessly, but never quite getting anywhere. I coined the phrase Travelogue Fantasy after reading the Song of Ice and Fire books. Then realised just how many fantasy epics it really applies to. Witcher, I'm looking at you.

They're basically the game session you run when you've got nothing prepped.

Although I actually really liked Dance of Dragons for it's picaresque journeying through Essos.

 

[CRKrueger]

It turns out there is, because the first few seasons of GoT had me, to my great surprise, actually express the sentiment of, "nooooo, no more tits! Please, no more tits! Make the tits go 'WAY! "

Apparently I have an upper limit for how many attractive actresses I want to see with their clothes off. This was not something I particularly wanted to know about myself, but it's something that GoT taught me all the same.

I mean, you're not wrong about US culture being weirdly puritanical (especially from my libertine European perspective), but... there was a few seasons during which the amount of fanservice on this show was truly ridiculous.

I’m with Voros on this one, especially if it’s a different culture. Rome, Spartacus, etc were quite full of nudity and sex, but it seemed in place, it actually helped sell the difference of the culture.

The only thing I thought they went a little overboard with in GoT were the porn-level audio we got during the scenes with blowjobs and that time Littlefinger wiped semen off the lip of one of his prostitutes. That was pretty stupid.

 

[Séadna]

There are many references in the book that hint in magic increasing across the world. And many other references that show it used to be much greater in the past (the Wall being the prime example). Given the talk about the prequel (which includes Bran the Builder, but allegedly no dragons) it must be the case that dragons are a symptom, not the cause. The Sorcerers of Qarth just jump to the wrong assumption?

The larger world has so much cool stuff in it. The Southern continent with cannibalistic neanderthals and utahraptors, the cities of bone collecting lizard men and the other of birdmen in Essos, the whole Lovecraftian Thousand Isles (and NorthEast Essos in general), all the massive monuments made of most likely magical obsidian throughout the world.

 

[dbm]

That’s pretty amazing stuff - where is it documented?

 

[Séadna]

That’s pretty amazing stuff - where is it documented?

The World of Ice and Fire. The section on Sothoryos is pretty amazing I thought. Made me think of a jungle Swords and Sorcery campaign immediately!

Some of it is also mentioned in passing in the books when Daenerys is in markets and sees traders from "far off lands".

 

[Simlasa]

My friends talked me into watching the series and I generally liked it. Probably because it kept the overtly fantastic/magical stuff on a short-ish leash... so when it did show up it was especially noteworthy, never humdrum.

I thought this final season was good enough, overall. The only scene that really didn't go down easy was where they killed the second dragon and sank the fleet from the North. It just felt too implausible and quick. It needed to be a larger/longer sequence of events... with more emotional response from the dragon girl.

 

[Bunch]

I'm trying to figure out why everyone at the council didn't all just say "Fuck not joining at all was an option?!?!?" once Sansa says "Nah we're outtie! Bitches!!"

Why elect Bran king? Why not stay home, run your country and trade? No one wants a war that bad since they just lived through one. You have a labor shortage since a whole friggen huge city was just burned to the ground. Dothraki horsemen are going to what? Settle down? Go Home? I see no peace in a weak ass king who can't stand and has no drive to lead. At least Uncle whothehell wanted the throne and made a lame case for himself.

I liked Arya's ending. It fit. She's and adventurer and needs to find new party members since everyone else was TPK'd.

Putting Jon somewhere very far away and cold gives him something to legitimately brood about. Why everyone liked him I can only guess was due to him being the only person with actual physical balls unlike the metaphorical balls it seems everyfriggen other person had.

I'm going to miss the dragon CGI, Peter Dinklage, Natalie Dormer and Sam Tarly.

 

[BedrockBrendan]

I left the show at the end of season six, but saw so much discussion on my facebook feed about it, I got a free trial of HBO in order to catch up and finish the series. I think the break left me in a very different headspace than many of the other viewers. Had I not stopped watching I probably would have been more invested, had more feelings about some of the choices they made and seen logical problems that didn't occur to me watching it more casually. In general the last season felt a bit different than the others and I think it is because there was so much time spent on action, but so little on politics and characters. Now that said, I left after season 6 because I felt the focus on characters was so deep, the pacing was just getting too slow for me (it started to suffer from the walking dead problem of watching three characters build a barn for three episodes).

Jumping back in, I quite liked season 7. There are things I would have preferred they did or did not do, but on the whole it felt like it had many of the elements that I enjoyed from the earlier seasons. The 8th season was entertaining, but there were things I didn't like. I think it definitely wasn't as exceptional as those first several seasons. Not sure if it could be. But I think if they spent less time having us watch buildings collapse, or armies fight in total darkness, and more time on dialogue and politicking, it would have been more engaging and some of the plot developments would have felt richer. I do think the overall shape of the plot made sense.

Daenarys going the direction she did made sense to me. I already knew a bit before I jumped into season 7 again and felt they dropped plenty of hints there. Also, looking back at the things I admired about Daenarys as a viewer in the earlier seasons, they made sense to me in this light. The problem I had with it, was it all unfurled so quickly and there wasn't really time to grasp her thought process. The season didn't need to be longer to convey all that, they just could have swapped the ratio of battles to talking and it would have been better.

Many people observed Tyrion got a bit dumb, and I am on the fence with that. I think there is a good argument to be made, on the other hand, he isn't stupid, I mean his ideas still make sense, he is just applying old lessons that are not working to new problems. But maybe he should be smart enough to realize that before things get to the point they reach.

Liked where they went with Sansa. The direction they went with Arya in the epilogue made very little sense to me. It just didn't feel like it connected to the character or to the show that much. I thought it was forced.

The thing that goes down with Daenarys and Snow, that worked for me.

My biggest complaints this season were the endless watching of buildings collapsed and the 45 minute battle in darkness. Even if the darkness was an issue on just certain TVs (I was watching on a mac), I didn't need the battle to last that long. I actually got bored midway through both those moments.

I didn't get why the Unsullied went where they did at the end. Those threads, and the threads with the Dothraki were not well handled in my view.

 

[Bunch]

I left the show at the end of season six, but saw so much discussion on my facebook feed about it, I got a free trial of HBO in order to catch up and finish the series. I think the break left me in a very different headspace than many of the other viewers. Had I not stopped watching I probably would have been more invested, had more feelings about some of the choices they made and seen logical problems that didn't occur to me watching it more casually. In general the last season felt a bit different than the others and I think it is because there was so much time spent on action, but so little on politics and characters. Now that said, I left after season 6 because I felt the focus on characters was so deep, the pacing was just getting too slow for me (it started to suffer from the walking dead problem of watching three characters build a barn for three episodes).

Jumping back in, I quite liked season 7. There are things I would have preferred they did or did not do, but on the whole it felt like it had many of the elements that I enjoyed from the earlier seasons. The 8th season was entertaining, but there were things I didn't like. I think it definitely wasn't as exceptional as those first several seasons. Not sure if it could be. But I think if they spent less time having us watch buildings collapse, or armies fight in total darkness, and more time on dialogue and politicking, it would have been more engaging and some of the plot developments would have felt richer. I do think the overall shape of the plot made sense.

Daenarys going the direction she did made sense to me. I already knew a bit before I jumped into season 7 again and felt they dropped plenty of hints there. Also, looking back at the things I admired about Daenarys as a viewer in the earlier seasons, they made sense to me in this light. The problem I had with it, was it all unfurled so quickly and there wasn't really time to grasp her thought process. The season didn't need to be longer to convey all that, they just could have swapped the ratio of battles to talking and it would have been better.

Many people observed Tyrion got a bit dumb, and I am on the fence with that. I think there is a good argument to be made, on the other hand, he isn't stupid, I mean his ideas still make sense, he is just applying old lessons that are not working to new problems. But maybe he should be smart enough to realize that before things get to the point they reach.

Liked where they went with Sansa. The direction they went with Arya in the epilogue made very little sense to me. It just didn't feel like it connected to the character or to the show that much. I thought it was forced.

The thing that goes down with Daenarys and Snow, that worked for me.

My biggest complaints this season were the endless watching of buildings collapsed and the 45 minute battle in darkness. Even if the darkness was an issue on just certain TVs (I was watching on a mac), I didn't need the battle to last that long. I actually got bored midway through both those moments.

I didn't get why the Unsullied went where they did at the end. Those threads, and the threads with the Dothraki were not well handled in my view.

Arya is a murderhobo. If she stayed in Westeroes she'd either have to kill family or start a war. Better to go find adventure where no family exists.

Think about it she's all combat skills , no social.

 

[BedrockBrendan]

Arya is a murderhobo. If she stayed in Westeroes she'd either have to kill family or start a war. Better to go find adventure where no family exists.

Think about it she's all combat skills , no social.

I just never got the sense prior to this development that exploring to the west was much of an option. She is definitely a murderer. She is a killer. But I don't think of her as an explorer.

 

[Baeraad]

I just never got the sense prior to this development that exploring to the west was much of an option. She is definitely a murderer. She is a killer. But I don't think of her as an explorer.

Less explorer, more adventurer.

I don't think it's been mentioned in the show, but in the book continuity at least Arya would have a precedent - a woman named Elissa Farman set sail for the west 200 years ago and was never seen again, but years later a visitor to a far-eastern port spotted what might have been her ship, implying that she managed to sail around the world. Arya has a noted fascination for kickass historical women like Nymeria and Visenya, so she'd absolutely know that story.

 

[dbm]

I didn't get why the Unsullied went where they did at the end.

Grey Worm fell in love with Missandei, and when they discussed what they would do once Daenerys was queen, Missandei said she wanted to go back to Narth, her homeland and a peaceful island with no warriors (hence a source of slaves...). Grey Worm promised to go with her and the Unsullied would protect her people. This is him keeping that promise.

 

[yabaziou]

I have not issue with the ending Got since I am not deeply invested in it but sweet Jesus, Dany had lousy advisors !

The whole Jon Snow true identity has been done poorly.

In my humble opinion, instead of scheming like backstabers, Tyrion and Varys should have told both Dany and Jon to go public with this mattter.

I mean, the whole Baratheon revolt is based on a lie, that Jon's mother was kidnapped and rape while she willingly married the Prince and gave birth to his legetimate son.

With this kind of information, they could have effectively branded Cirsei as a rebel and a renegade since she has not claim to the throne.

My heas canon is as follow : Dany and Jon annonced their engaement in the 4th episode, Varys got burnt because of his backstabbing behaviour, Dany told once she married Jon she not longer need Tyrion's service.

King's Landing got destroy even if Dany only attacked military targets since the whole city is full wildfire but since Cersei died, she got blame for it.

Instead of doubling down on the I don't care attitude, Dany is sincerly shocked with the destruction and death she caused and asked Jon for his help in rebuilding the 7 seven kingdoms.

Dany knew that Sansa is a problem and counter her by asking her to marry Gendry Baratheon and promised her that in the case she is unable to has kids, her first born will be the new ruler of Westeros. Jon likes the idea and asks Sansa to do in memory of their father. Sansa complied and The four of them married the same day to show that the war is over.

There may be a epilogue where Dany, who declared herself Emperess since she is the ruler of more lands that just Westeros, is teaching a ten boy, who is called Eddard, how to be a just ruler. The boy called her mother but looks nothing like Dany. Then Sansa comes, the boy runs to her calling her mom.

 

[Baeraad]

In my humble opinion, instead of scheming like backstabers, Tyrion and Varys should have told both Dany and Jon to go public with this mattter.

I mean, the whole Baratheon revolt is based on a lie, that Jon's mother was kidnapped and rape while she willingly married the Prince and gave birth to his legetimate son.

With this kind of information, they could have effectively branded Cirsei as a rebel and a renegade since she has not claim to the throne.

Cercei already had no claim to the throne. She took it on the basis of, "I'm in charge now, and if anyone's got a problem with that, I've got more wildfire!" and she's holding it by virtue of being the last gal standing who isn't a scary foreigner.

There may be a epilogue where Dany, who declared herself Emperess since she is the ruler of more lands that just Westeros, is teaching a ten boy, who is called Eddard, how to be a just ruler. The boy called her mother but looks nothing like Dany. Then Sansa comes, the boy runs to her calling her mom.

I'll grant you that that's adorable enough that I kind of want to see it. In a better world than Westeros, eh?

 

[Edgewise]

My heas canon is as follow : Dany and Jon annonced their engaement in the 4th episode, Varys got burnt because of his backstabbing behaviour, Dany told once she married Jon she not longer need Tyrion's service.

Once he knew what the situation was, I don't think Jon could get past that whole blood relative thing.

 

[Baeraad]

Once he knew what the situation was, I don't think Jon could get past that whole blood relative thing.

Agreed. And I also don't think Dany, at this point in her life, could have handled being reduced to a secondary position - which is what she would have been if she'd married a guy who was acknowledged as being the legitimate heir to the throne.

I think the way to a happy ending would have been, Sam keeps his big mouth shut, Dany and Jon remain tight, Dany has at once more support and less pressure on her and so doesn't snap, Dany becomes Queen and takes Jon as her nicely submissive Prince-Consort who can talk her out of burning people most of the time, everyone ends up more or less happy. But the moment Sam blabbed, the dominoes just started falling.

 

[yabaziou]

I agree that I am being a big softie, what I imagine implies that Dany is open to compromise which does not fit her character. And I do not Dany allowing Sansa being as ambitious as she turned to be.

Jon marrying Dany does not seem out of character since he has to fix his mess when he told the truth about to Sansa. And also he had sex with Ygritte, a wildling who, if a remember correctly, is seen as a subhuman scum by the people of the North.

But what I like with the original ending of the serie (not my head canon) is the fact that being a ruler is more about being a rignt time in the right place than being worthy of it

 

[Trippy]

I get irritated by online mobs complaining about the endings of stories as if they were owners of the stories being told rather than just an audience. The adage that fans don't love, they hate, always rings true.

Anyway, I do think that the GOT show finished more or less in a satisfying way. The series itself, I feel, peaked in quality and interest around season 4 for me, but it was all compelling enough to keep watching throughout. I do agree that the writers struggled a bit with pacing more than anything else when they ran out of book writing. For example, I think the last two series should have had the battle of Winterfell and the White Walkers finish off season seven, with the aftermath and Dany's decline into a tyrant could have been given more dramatic time to develop in season eight. Essentially her mental meltdown all seemed to happen in just one or two episodes - although in retrospect it was always going to be a fitting end to the character. I also felt that other subplots - like Littlefinger's demise and Arya's training seemed a bit rushed too. Tyrion was my favourite character, but I did get a bit frustrated that he seemed to keep making foolish decisions in the last couple of seasons. Compare it to his witty intrigue in Season 2 and the character seemed to have radically declined in intellect.

In all though, happy to have seen it through and it has been a cultural phenomenon. On balance, I think Lord of the Rings still remains the better story of the two, although the real politik was a good development. It was almost like taking the best elements of LotR and combining it with aspects of Dune.

Which reminds me, Dune movie series beginning…….next year.

 

[dbm]

There is a companion show in the UK called Thronecast (discussing the new episode each week) where they showed a montage of Dany over the full span of the show. From the very first season the seeds are there.

 

[Séadna]

Yeah I liked the ending as well. I think the only problem is pacing in places. For example when Bran becomes king there is nothing wrong with that, but it happens a bit too fast and the reasoning from other characters, e.g. Tyrion doesn't fully make sense or how quickly others agree with it. So some bits are a bit rushed, but I've no problem with the plot points themselves.

 

[dokel]

I enjoyed the Last Watch documentary. What I thought came across was the sheer scale and ambition of the whole enterprise that was Game of Thrones. There was also a sense that, toward the end, they were really pushing the limits of what it was possible to achieve with the resources available. Which may explain some of the issues - such as the sense of the last two seasons feeling a bit rushed.

 

[dbm]

That has just dropped in the UK and is on my list of programmes to watch. Glad to hear it provides some interesting insight.

 

[Mankcam]

Just saw the finale, and its a pretty resolution to the series