Games Workshop in General

[Ladybird]

I never saw the point in cheating at a game, but I guess some of the tournies took it crazy serious

In a regular game, yeah, but when there's something actually on the line, especially money, people to get hardcore about it. My experience is only CCG tournaments, but even there and even against good friends, playing for fun comes second to playing to win.

My understanding is that if you don't defend your trade mark rights it can be taken to mean you've abandoned them. The rules are a bit different in Europe, GW killed a fan film at one point with the rationale that allowing it would cede certain rights to the creators. That's why I think they should buy in a little bit and get something in writing.

iirc while everyone involved was doing their best to work it out, the problem was it being made in Germany; German copyright laws don't allow the director to give away some rights to their work even if they want to do so, and so GW couldn't allow them to release it without effectively giving them certain rights to the 40k IP (Which, for future commercial reasons, they are obviously loath to devalue or lose control of).

It wound up leaking anyway as things do, but it's a pity things couldn't be worked out so everybody could get the credit they deserve.

 

[Atelerix]

Even with decent voice talent like John Hurt and Sean Pertwee, the Ultramarines film was agonisingly bad. While big doofuses knocking shit out of each other should in theory make for great action, it shares the same problem as Phantom Menace - superpowered ascetic Space Monks are very, very dull.

Event Horizon remains the best non-40k 40k film out there. "Our spaceship is built like a demented cathedral, and it throws us into a different universe. What could go wrong?"

 

[chuckdee]

My understanding is that if you don't defend your trade mark rights it can be taken to mean you've abandoned them. The rules are a bit different in Europe, GW killed a fan film at one point with the rationale that allowing it would cede certain rights to the creators. That's why I think they should buy in a little bit and get something in writing.

I'm not sure if GW still sees anyone who's been playing for more than a year as a liability. They've certainly tried to bring back fan favorites like Blood Bowl, Adeptus Mechanicus, and Necromundia and made some good will efforts to mend fences with fans. After the previous CEO nearly bankrupted them with his policies mind you.

While this is true, there are fan friendly ways around this issue.

Even with decent voice talent like John Hurt and Sean Pertwee, the Ultramarines film was agonisingly bad. While big doofuses knocking shit out of each other should in theory make for great action, it shares the same problem as Phantom Menace - superpowered ascetic Space Monks are very, very dull.

Event Horizon remains the best non-40k 40k film out there. "Our spaceship is built like a demented cathedral, and it throws us into a different universe. What could go wrong?"

I don't think it's a problem with the depth from the medium, it's a problem with the lack of imagination of their team. I mean, you only have to look at the Black Library stuff to see that there is a wealth of opportunity for interesting stories to be told.

 

[Godfather Punk]

Talking about GW... I know I could wait until Saturday to find out, but what do you think will be in the Broken Realm boxes?

For 'The Exquisite Pursuit' (9 minis') I'm guessing a Contorted Epitome, 5 Daemonettes and 3 Fiends?
'The Butcher-Herd' holds 8 minis. 5 Ungors and 3 Bullgors?
'Rattachak's Doom-Coven' (only 5 minis) holds at least a Warlock Bombardier, but I don't see what else... 1 Rat Ogor, 1 Packmaster and 2 rats?
And the 'Drycha's Spite Grove' (11 minis) probably the titular Drycha herself, and... 5 Dryads and 5 Revenants?

Do you guys see other combinations that would fit the number of mini's and still be good value for money?

 

[TristramEvans]

Unless they are new minis, I don't care. GW is still trying to repackage and sell me their old fantasy crap for Skaven - AGAIN.

 

[Godfather Punk]

Well, I wasn't into GW 28 years ago, or 19 years ago, or 4 years ago. So any package deal that gives a bit of value today is always welcome

 

[David Johansen]

I think Mantic has fantasy ratmen in plastic now as well as some monstrosities that might serve.

 

[TristramEvans]

I think Mantic has fantasy ratmen in plastic now as well as some monstrosities that might serve.

Yeah, they're shit. I love Mantic, but only some of their sculpts are passable

Luckily they did a decent job with Hellboy

 

[Fenris-77]

They might be old, but at least those Skaven sculpts are good.

 

[David Johansen]

I didn't think they were too bad but then I've assembled the early restic stuff so, my tollerance for bad is quite high. Heck, I even like the first run of plastic goblins.

 

[Fenris-77]

My tolerance for bad is ... less high.

 

[TristramEvans]

They might be old, but at least those Skaven sculpts are good.

some of them - the fact we still have monkey rats as our only option for Eshin troops is a tragedy

 

[Fenris-77]

some of them - the fact we still have monkey rats as our only option for Eshin troops is a tragedy

Yeah, that's fair. I was more getting at the fact that the Skaven line, all told, holds up really well for a GW product. I mostly can't wrap my head around other companies attempts at ratmen either, unless they are modelled on the Skaven. My mental picture of what fantasy ratmen look like is pretty much entirely taken from GW. I'm pretty comfy with that, all told.

 

[TristramEvans]

Yeah, that's fair. I was more getting at the fact that the Skaven line, all told, holds up really well for a GW product. I mostly can't wrap my head around other companies attempts at ratmen either, unless they are modelled on the Skaven. My mental picture of what fantasy ratmen look like is pretty much entirely taken from GW. I'm pretty comfy with that, all told.

I spent hundreds starting about ten years ago putting together an Oldhammer army of just Jes Goodwin sculpts - though luckily I got in when I did, because that would have been hundreds of thousands now - Goodwins used to go for $3-5 a piece, now they're upwards of $20-30.



There's been a few other Ratmen I like - Punga's been knocking it out of the park lately, and I love Black Scorpion's Ratmen, they pretty much are the closest to how I picture Ratmen ideally in my head. But they don't fit with any others, certainly not modern GW's so I'd basically have to kitbash the entire army myself. Maybe, sometime in the future if I for some reason find myself with unlimited free time.

 

[Fenris-77]

That's a lot of Goodwin sculpts but hey, it's Goodwin, so worth the investment (although at $20-30 each I know my wallet would scream in protest). Are those yours in the pic?

 

[TristramEvans]

That's a lot of Goodwin sculpts but hey, it's Goodwin, so worth the investment (although at $20-30 each I know my wallet would scream in protest). Are those yours in the pic?

No, those are Nico's, my primary inspiration back in the day

But I've got a lot more to do than him. I think he just did a 3K army - I have enough to do 3K for each of the major clans

 

[David Johansen]

Ral Partha Legacy has the classic Ratlings. A bit small perhaps but gorgeous sculpts.

 

[TristramEvans]

Ral Partha Legacy has the classic Ratlings. A bit small perhaps but gorgeous sculpts.

Yeah, though they have an aesthetic all their own, just the the Grenadier Wererats. There's a lot of "isolated" lines of ratmen each with their own aesthetics, and usually only half a dozen to a dozen individual sculpts. It's hard to make a consistent-looking army from any of them.

 

[David Johansen]

Did Avatars of War do one of their short run regiment sets of Skaven? Something in me thinks they did but I don't see them. I wonder what their process is. Stuff like the Dwarf Berserkers and Pestilence Warriors seems to come and go. Which is odd for plastics.

 

[TristramEvans]

Did Avatars of War do one of their short run regiment sets of Skaven? Something in me thinks they did but I don't see them. I wonder what their process is. Stuff like the Dwarf Berserkers and Pestilence Warriors seems to come and go. Which is odd for plastics.

As far as I know they've only done the two character sculpts. I have one, it fits in with modern Skaven well enough

 

[CRKrueger]

You guys might already know this, but the Avatars of War guy now has a Patreon. For $4 a month you get 20 .stls of new AoW minis. I don’t even have a 3D printer, but that sounds like a good deal.

 

[David Johansen]

Ralpartha Europe has some ratmen here: http://www.ralparthaeurope.co.uk/shop/ratmen-c-246

They've also got a couple of the old Tim Prow / Heart Breaker ratmen but I don't see the unit builder pack.

Mirlton has the old Grenadier Lost Lands Ratscum but they're yet another style and scale if very nice.

I swear there was a kickstarter for some ratmen not long ago but I can't remember who did it, not Satanic Panic or Midlam anyhow.

I suppose I could sculpt you some. I'm no Jes Goodwin but I could roughly ape his style. Casting's another matter. I'm getting there. I'm learning. I'm leaning towards resin as the materials are cheaper and lighter to ship. Metal's gotten crazy expensive. For my own use I can do a lead based alloy by adding lead free solder to scrap lead but I wouldn't want to be selling / shipping it. I could do some gravity fed, Prince August style moulds and ship those I suppose.

Really, waiting for Satanic Panic Miniatures to do Skaven might by the best bet. Their Gnoles and Goblins are pretty sweet.

And then I found this: https://rebelminis.com/goblinpackrat.html though really, Rebel's got some gorgeous Bob Olley Kobolds I need to get some day, I wonder if they could get him to do ratmen. That would be sweet.

 

[TristramEvans]

Yeah, I did a 13-part series on my Blog going through EVERY ratman miniature from every company from 1978 onwards

A Rat By Any Other Name... Part I

While the labyrinthine warrens of the Old World are expansive and populous, it is far from the only Under Empire in the multiverse. Indeed, years before the first bells peeled in doomed Kazvar,...

pariedolia.weebly.com

A Rat By Any Other Name...Part II

Along with Citadel and Grenadier, the third "big name" fantasy miniature distributer in the 1980s was Ral Partha. Like Grenadier, Ral Partha was established in 1975, and rose to prominence as a...

pariedolia.weebly.com

A Rat By Any Other Name...Part III

In 1991, U.S. Senior Manager Bob Watts left Games Workshop after Bryan Ansel sold the company, starting Heartbreaker with a mind to compete with GW. There were a few hobby companies in the early 90s...

pariedolia.weebly.com

A Rat By Any Other Name...Part IV

In 1994 Dean Edwards, veteran of Grenadier, Games Workshop, Marauder Miniatures and Fantasy Forge , started Harlequin Miniatures with his brother Vaughan. Much like Heartbreaker, Harlequin hoped to...

pariedolia.weebly.com

A Rat By Any Other Name...Part V

Irregular Miniatures was established in the UK in 1981, and continue on to this day with a small but comprehensive range. Their contribution to the rat pack is "F62 Ratman Running!":

pariedolia.weebly.com

A Rat By Any Other Name...Part VI

Alternative Armies came on to the hobby scene in 1991, a Scottish company producing a wide range of 15mm and 28mm figures. One of their most popular lines focuses around the game of Flintloque, a...

pariedolia.weebly.com

A Rat By Any Other Name...Part VII

The concept of Nezumi, Japanese Ratmen, entered into gaming parlance in the late 90s. Whether largely inspired by Clan Eshin or Splinter from the Ninja Turtles (probably a bit of both), its hard to...

pariedolia.weebly.com

A Rat By Any Other Name...Part VIII

Blood Bowl, a spoof on American football featuring the fantasy races of Warhammer's Old World, premiered in 1986 and has had a pretty steady fanbase ever since. After being semi-abandoned by GW in...

pariedolia.weebly.com

A Rat By Any Other Name...Part IX

HeroQuest - Marvel Winter Special by TSEvans on Scribd

pariedolia.weebly.com

A Rat By Any Other (SIZE)...Part X

25-28mm has always dominated the fantasy miniatures market. Its a good size for wargaming; small enough to practically field armies on a 6'x 4' table, but large enough to hold a decent amount of...

pariedolia.weebly.com

A Rat By Any Other Name...Part XI

No, not that one... In many ways, Reaper Miniatures fulfills the spot held by Ral Partha and Grenadier in the 80s. No other miniatures company currently offers the volume and variety of Reaper....

pariedolia.weebly.com

A Rat By Any Other Name...Part XII

Avatars of War was created by sculptor Felix Paniagua in 2007, offering alternative models to Games Workshop. They've since aligned themselves with "The 9th Age". So far they offer only a single...

pariedolia.weebly.com

A Rat By Any Other Name...Part XIII

Before I get into this post, since last writing I've come across a few new Rat miniatures that I wasn't previously aware of, as it so happens. I've updated three of my previous posts to include new...

pariedolia.weebly.com

 

[TristramEvans]

The closest to Jes Goodwin Skaven are the Uscarl sculpts by Tim Prow (not to be confused with the Heartbreaker sculpts by Tim Prow, which about three years ago got a rerelease in resin through Kickstarter, along with the Chaz Elliott Hearbreaker sculpts).

 

[David Johansen]

You might have a bit of an obsession... ;)

I've got five of the High Command Ratten and a copy of Fantasy Warlord. Really, Folio Works probably invested too much and aimed too high without the ability to match quality.

 

[TristramEvans]

Honestly Fantasy Warlord mostly just suffered from not being cool.

The rules are quite good. Some of the sculpts were rough, but that's forgiveable.

But they're gamebook - no one is going to pick up that over Warhammer. Instead of being grim, it was just was just..."dorky". It seemed like the authors stepped right out of 1980.

 

[David Johansen]

Warhammer had its times of dorkiness, fourth and fifth edition covers were pretty garish. Fantasy Warlord was pretty good compared to a lot of small ventures of the time but it wasn't good enough. Games Workshop has had a fantastic in house studio for a long time. It's hard to contend with that. But as I said, I suspect the real culprit is unreasonable expectations and overspending out of the gate.

 

[TristramEvans]

 

[Ladybird]

Warhammer had its times of dorkiness, fourth and fifth edition covers were pretty garish. Fantasy Warlord was pretty good compared to a lot of small ventures of the time but it wasn't good enough. Games Workshop has had a fantastic in house studio for a long time. It's hard to contend with that. But as I said, I suspect the real culprit is unreasonable expectations and overspending out of the gate.

I think 4e/5e were probably my favourite era, but in fairness they were also when I started playing. The grimderp switch in 6e never really felt right (If I wanted that, 40k was literally just on the other side of the store).

 

[David Johansen]

My tolerance for bad is ... less high.

My tolerance for expensive is...less high.

 

[Fenris-77]

My tolerance for expensive is...less high.

So we're looking for the Zen middle road then...

 

[chuckdee]

View attachment 31515

 

[TristramEvans]

 

[Ladybird]

I'm not gonna suck up to corporate, but IMO if the rule is "if you want to play in our stores or our events then you have to do these things:", one of which is "use our official models" (Or at least most of your model should be official), I don't think that is an unreasonable rule; it's basically the same rule as any hobby with "official" game pieces, like CCG's. If you don't want to do that, don't use that space.

At your kitchen table or club events, do what you will. It's an expensive hobby and it sucks that so many folk are priced out of it, or trying a new unit is a £100 investment and they might suck, or anything like that.

 

[Brock Savage]

I'm not gonna suck up to corporate, but IMO if the rule is "if you want to play in our stores or our events then you have to do these things:", one of which is "use our official models" (Or at least most of your model should be official), I don't think that is an unreasonable rule; it's basically the same rule as any hobby with "official" game pieces, like CCG's. If you don't want to do that, don't use that space.

I agree. I think it would be rude of me to roll into a GW store and break out 3rd party knock off models when they are allowing me to use their space. That said, back when we had a Battle Bunker around here, the GW employees weren't dicks about 3rd party bits; my IG army is customized with 3rd party bits (heads, mostly) and they never busted my balls over it or said anything at all for that matter.

 

[Ladybird]

I agree. I think it would be rude of me to roll into a GW store and break out 3rd party knock off models when they are allowing me to use their space. That said, back when we had a Battle Bunker around here, the GW employees weren't dicks about 3rd party bits; my IG army is customized with 3rd party bits (heads, mostly) and they never busted my balls over it or said anything at all for that matter.

At one point there used to be an official rule that your model needed to be some percentage (70%?) GW, because they want to encourage conversions and people customising their armies and making them their own, and player's well-done models are good advertising for GW, but they are also a business and want to keep on selling models.

Some neat-looking bits? As long as you're not being an ass about it, only the most That Guy of Those Guys would have any sort of issue or likely even notice.

 

[David Johansen]

Tristram? Have you seen these? https://pungaminiatures.com/

 

[TristramEvans]

Tristram? Have you seen these? https://pungaminiatures.com/

Oh yes, I heavily backed their Pi'Rats Kickstarter year before last, and I also contributed designwork and suggestions expanding the line, once they took it past Bloodbowl to actual replacement army figures. Really nice, high-quality resin, beautiful casts, but slightly larger than GW's typical scale (closer to 32mm).

My favourite:

 

[Paradigm Shaft]

Yeah, I did a 13-part series on my Blog going through EVERY ratman miniature from every company from 1978 onwards

A Rat By Any Other Name... Part I

While the labyrinthine warrens of the Old World are expansive and populous, it is far from the only Under Empire in the multiverse. Indeed, years before the first bells peeled in doomed Kazvar,...

pariedolia.weebly.com

A Rat By Any Other Name...Part II

Along with Citadel and Grenadier, the third "big name" fantasy miniature distributer in the 1980s was Ral Partha. Like Grenadier, Ral Partha was established in 1975, and rose to prominence as a...

pariedolia.weebly.com

A Rat By Any Other Name...Part III

In 1991, U.S. Senior Manager Bob Watts left Games Workshop after Bryan Ansel sold the company, starting Heartbreaker with a mind to compete with GW. There were a few hobby companies in the early 90s...

pariedolia.weebly.com

A Rat By Any Other Name...Part IV

In 1994 Dean Edwards, veteran of Grenadier, Games Workshop, Marauder Miniatures and Fantasy Forge , started Harlequin Miniatures with his brother Vaughan. Much like Heartbreaker, Harlequin hoped to...

pariedolia.weebly.com

A Rat By Any Other Name...Part V

Irregular Miniatures was established in the UK in 1981, and continue on to this day with a small but comprehensive range. Their contribution to the rat pack is "F62 Ratman Running!":

pariedolia.weebly.com

A Rat By Any Other Name...Part VI

Alternative Armies came on to the hobby scene in 1991, a Scottish company producing a wide range of 15mm and 28mm figures. One of their most popular lines focuses around the game of Flintloque, a...

pariedolia.weebly.com

A Rat By Any Other Name...Part VII

The concept of Nezumi, Japanese Ratmen, entered into gaming parlance in the late 90s. Whether largely inspired by Clan Eshin or Splinter from the Ninja Turtles (probably a bit of both), its hard to...

pariedolia.weebly.com

A Rat By Any Other Name...Part VIII

Blood Bowl, a spoof on American football featuring the fantasy races of Warhammer's Old World, premiered in 1986 and has had a pretty steady fanbase ever since. After being semi-abandoned by GW in...

pariedolia.weebly.com

A Rat By Any Other Name...Part IX

HeroQuest - Marvel Winter Special by TSEvans on Scribd

pariedolia.weebly.com

A Rat By Any Other (SIZE)...Part X

25-28mm has always dominated the fantasy miniatures market. Its a good size for wargaming; small enough to practically field armies on a 6'x 4' table, but large enough to hold a decent amount of...

pariedolia.weebly.com

A Rat By Any Other Name...Part XI

No, not that one... In many ways, Reaper Miniatures fulfills the spot held by Ral Partha and Grenadier in the 80s. No other miniatures company currently offers the volume and variety of Reaper....

pariedolia.weebly.com

A Rat By Any Other Name...Part XII

Avatars of War was created by sculptor Felix Paniagua in 2007, offering alternative models to Games Workshop. They've since aligned themselves with "The 9th Age". So far they offer only a single...

pariedolia.weebly.com

A Rat By Any Other Name...Part XIII

Before I get into this post, since last writing I've come across a few new Rat miniatures that I wasn't previously aware of, as it so happens. I've updated three of my previous posts to include new...

pariedolia.weebly.com

That is absolutely amazing.

I wish Skaven were good in AoS. Like, they worked them into the lore even. Are we waiting on a re-imagining or what?

 

[Stumpydave]

Tristram, any thoughts on Mantic's Veer-Myn?