Guardian Article on GW Raking It In

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I wonder if success will make them more or less douchey.

I love Warhammer (fantasy and 40k), but loathe GW.

The fan/company relationship is crack addicts vs. a nasty dealer who has a crack monopoly, and its been that way for decades. I hear some mumbling about the new CEO as a gamer hero, but we will see.
 
Spinachcat said:
I wonder if success will make them more or less douchey.
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Has success ever made anyone less douchey?

I lost interest in the company in the early '90s, and nothing they have done has gotten my attention back since then.
 
A few years ago they nearly went under. New CEO, less doucheyness and they're on top of the world. Heck, Age of Sigmar might even count as creating something new and original for the first time in decades. Yes they did it by jettisoning the classic fantasy wargame. But given the production time it was probably a decision green lit by the previous CEO. It takes a bit of time to turn a big ship around.

That said I doubt I'll ever buy a GW product again because fuck them.
 
Bunch said:
Children are the most successful in turning people less douche in my experience. When you suddenly have to put someone else's needs way out in front of your own it can have a transformative effect.
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At the very least, they make you too exhausted to be actively douchey.
 
Baulderstone said:
At the very least, they make you too exhausted to be actively douchey.
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I've know too many parents who contradict this assumption. :tongue:

In my vast experience in the Ways of Douchebaggery, nothing cures this condition as efficiently as a severe, public asskicking, both literal and metaphorical.

Somewhat more on topic:

One of the great successes of my life to date is I never bought into, played seriously, or spent money on, anything having to do with Games Workshop.

Despite the fact that Warhammer looks cool as hell and I want to get in on that. I start researching what it'd take to start playing, an then I come across "Games Workshop", and I'm like:

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Good for them, I guess. I don't really care as I've never been into miniatures and their figures always seemed dopey-looking to me anyway. More power to 'em if they found a way to make money off it.
 
noman said:
One of the great successes of my life to date is I never bought into, played seriously, or spent money on, anything having to do with Games Workshop.
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To be fair, until the late '80s, Games Workshop was a very cool company, and White Dwarf was a must-buy magazine. They were putting out stuff for RuneQuest, Call of Cthulhu, and Stormbringer. They created WFRP. The Fiend Folio, one of the coolest D&D monster books, is just repackaged stuff from White Dwarf.

Even their early miniature games weren't cynical money machines. Warhammer 40,000: Rogue Trader encouraged you to use your own toys and models, with stat suggestions for doing so.

They have sucked for decades, but they still have a fantastic legacy behind them.
 
Just because you run a great race at the beginning doesn't excuse you when you peter out, trip, and fall towrds the end. :wink:

Sorry, I'm being an asshole here. But it's a pet peeve of mine. I don't care what a company did two decades ago. I care about what it's doing now (cough GURPS cough Palladium cough).

I'll show myself out. :sad:
 
Oh early 80's GW is awesome. Before it became a house organ White Dwarfb is amazeballs! Do yourself a favor and pick some up. They did some great board games in that era too.
 
I'll add that I'm not trying to be critical of Warhammer fans. Not at all. Truth is I'm envious. Warhammer, especially W4K, looks like amazing fun. I just can't get over some things about the company.

I apologize if I was offensive or coming across too harshly. I seem to be in dick mode this morning. I'll dial it back.
 
noman said:
Just because you run a great race at the beginning doesn't excuse you when you peter out, trip, and fall towrds the end. :wink:

Sorry, I'm being an asshole here. But it's a pet peeve of mine. I don't care what a company did two decades ago. I care about what it's doing now (cough GURPS cough Palladium cough).

I'll show myself out. :sad:
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I can't really conceive of rejecting earlier creations by a company or individual because they later made inferior products. You shut yourself out of most of the good stuff that ever existed that way.
 
noman said:
I'll add that I'm not trying to be critical of Warhammer fans. Not at all. Truth is I'm envious. Warhammer, especially W4K, looks like amazing fun. I just can't get over some things about the company.

I apologize if I was offensive or coming across too harshly. I seem to be in dick mode this morning. I'll dial it back.
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No worries. We are just talking here.
 
noman said:
I'll add that I'm not trying to be critical of Warhammer fans. Not at all. Truth is I'm envious. Warhammer, especially W4K, looks like amazing fun. I just can't get over some things about the company.

I apologize if I was offensive or coming across too harshly. I seem to be in dick mode this morning. I'll dial it back.
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You can hate on 40k all you want because It has almost nothing to do with the early 80's GW. Think of early 80's GW as pre #100 Dragon magazine. Not enough GW or TSR stuff to fill a magazine so they covered the whole industry. The Golden age of both magazines. GW even more so since as I recall they licensed a lot of other people's stuff.
 
Baulderstone said:
I can't really conceive of rejecting earlier creations by a company or individual because they later made inferior products. You shut yourself out of most of the good stuff that ever existed that way.
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This is true, but you've got to keep in mind that I'm coming at gaming from the post-2012 period. Unlike many of you, I didn't buy, keep, or retain the better products of an allegedly fading company from the earlier eras of gaming.

I'm coming at it from "What are they doing now, and how are they doing it?" as well as "How do I think this company will fare later down the road?" I'm running risks and potential value regarding future products. In short, I tend to be very selective in which games I buy, and have a habit of treating my gaming buys the same way I treat my actual investments. This is part of the reason I don't buy into Warhammer, now, you see. Back in the day, that wouldn't necessarily be true.

I have specific reasons for doing it this way.

But my way isn't the highway, and I don't suggest or recommend this approach to anyone. What's right for me certainly isn't right for anyone else, and I suspect some people would read this and say, "Well, that's just stupid." It's not, really. But I can understand the sentiment. :grin:
 
My own Sudden Derp posts aside, serous question:

GW is making a lot of money. Baudlerstone and Bunch, by your own admission, you've stated that old GW > than current GW.

Why is GW making money if the quality of its products and corporate temperament have degenerated?
 
noman said:
My own Sudden Derp posts aside, serous question:

GW is making a lot of money. Baudlerstone and Bunch, by your own admission, you've stated that old GW > than current GW.

Why is GW making money if the quality of its products and corporate temperament have degenerated?
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It's a subjective view. I was never into 40k or fantasy battles so when White Dwarf switched from a general purpose magazine to GW house organ it lost me. Dragon magazine did the same and if you read the history of most company owned magazines they follow the same trend. First they cover everyone then over time they become solely focused on company products. Sad but common.
Now if I was super into 40k then White Dwarf got massively better when it stopped publishing articles on D&D and other stuff since I would have much more 40k coverage which I wouldn't get anywhere else.
 
Dumarest said:
What's wrong with cynical money machines? :clown:
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They aren't shoveling the money into my account.
noman said:
My own Sudden Derp posts aside, serous question:

GW is making a lot of money. Baudlerstone and Bunch, by your own admission, you've stated that old GW > than current GW.

Why is GW making money if the quality of its products and corporate temperament have degenerated?
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Well, they switched markets. They went from RPGs to selling collectible games.

noman said:
I was about to, but I realized I should only deploy that level of meme when I'm in top form. :clown:
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And I had my "Watchu talking bout, Willis?" GIF ready to respond and everything!
 
GW is a good example of a company making a 180 degree turn and going from being the epitome of corporate money-grubbing with no concern for fans to an example of how to do everything right.

I may not care for Age of Sigmar, but how the company is run now is pretty much the gold standard in the hobby.

That said, a lot of people are still very bitter about both the way the company used to operate and the death of The Old World, which is fair enough. Some grudges won’t ever heal and GW alienated a lot of people in its previous incarnation.

As for myself, I play old and new hammer . I like the old miniature designs of the Goodwin era but also appreciate the gorgeous new ones.

99120212015_DaughtersOfKhaineMorathi01.jpg

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Of course, their treatment of retailers doesn't seem to have improved :sad:
 
David Johansen said:
Of course, their treatment of retailers doesn't seem to have improved :sad:
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They’ve reversed their inoperable restrictions on online retailers, but other than that what do they do different from any other franchise store?
 
Baulderstone said:
Well, they switched markets. They went from RPGs to selling collectible games.
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I wouldn’t call it a switch so much as they simply got out of the RPG market. They were always primarily a miniatures company, it was somewhat of a fluke they even got into RPGs in the first place. They put in an order of D&D books for the staff members, back before the game really took off, and Gygax, saying he’d never seen such a large order declared them official retailers for TSR in the UK. Then, by the time the early 90s came around, most of the staff that had participated in the RPG projects left, and they simply abandoned that small part of their business to focus on the miniature wargames.

Thank god for Hogshead at least.
 
TristramEvans said:
They’ve reversed their inoperable restrictions on online retailers, but other than that what do they do different from any other franchise store?
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As i recall, at one point it was virtually impossible for a non GW house store to sell minis. And that was right after a long period where retailers had built up the brand and loyalty. So if you were in retail when they pulled access of a top line it really sucked.
 
Bunch said:
As i recall, at one point it was virtually impossible for a non GW house store to sell minis. And that was right after a long period where retailers had built up the brand and loyalty. So if you were in retail when they pulled access of a top line it really sucked.
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I have 3 stores in my area that carry GW so that must not be the case currently. I do know they have several requirements for selling their products, to do with the display space and such, but that’s pretty normal. I worked at a Pharmacy a while ago and you’d be amazed at the requirements big lines of pills and makeup have in stores carrying their product
 
Minimum orders, massive first order requirements, exclusive contracts in a radius / population requirement, won't allow boxes to be broken down and sold by the sprue.
 
TristramEvans said:
I have 3 stores in my area that carry GW so that must not be the case currently. I do know they have several requirements for selling their products, to do with the display space and such, but that’s pretty normal. I worked at a Pharmacy a while ago and you’d be amazed at the requirements big lines of pills and makeup have in stores carrying their product
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Yeah they changed back sometime between 2004 and 2007. I think it burned a number of retailers who had focused on WH40k only to see all their work go straight over to a company store once they'd built it up.
 
Bunch said:
Yeah they changed back sometime between 2004 and 2007. I think it burned a number of retailers who had focused on WH40k only to see all their work go straight over to a company store once they'd built it up.
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I didn't carry them in the Chicago store that I ran for that reason. They were already notorious for opening a store next door to anyone that made the mistake of selling their products too well.

What was funny is that the same guy would always come in and ask for GW products an hour before their rep called to hard sell me on carrying their stuff. Every time. And he never came in my store any other time. It was such a cheap and transparent move.
 
David Johansen said:
Of course, their treatment of retailers doesn't seem to have improved :sad:
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Baulderstone said:
A lot of my bad feeling about GW comes from managing a game store. That's for sure.
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I had a buddy that owned a RPG/COmic shop for a while. Thought about carrying Warhammer for a second. Till he saw the requirements to carry it. Egads, I don't recall the exact numbers money wise. I just remember it being huge. At least in all of our eyes.
 
Baulderstone said:
I didn't carry them in the Chicago store that I ran for that reason. They were already notorious for opening a store next door to anyone that made the mistake of selling their products too well.

What was funny is that the same guy would always come in and ask for GW products an hour before their rep called to hard sell me on carrying their stuff. Every time. And he never came in my store any other time. It was such a cheap and transparent move.
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Thats is so lame.
 
Although I never had any interest in their miniatures, I just noticed that I have quite a few of their RPG products: Golden Heroes, both Golden Heroes modules and the Supervisor Kit, Judge Dredd and the Judge Dredd sourcebook, Call of Cthulhu, RuneQuest, Advanced RuneQuest, and the RuneQuest monster manual...all still holding together in great shape, so they have that going for them. Never realized I had so much of their stuff.
 
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White Dwarf was a great magazine for RPGs back in the day.

Tristram, those are beautiful minis.
 
TristramEvans said:
fun fact, at the first store opening they did a limited run of a miniature that was given away at the door and never recast. The infamous "Manchester Rabbit" now goes for upwards of $1000 when one can actually find one for sale.
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Ah, you just brought that up hoping we'd ask you about yours! :clown:
 
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