That Metal Thread Hasbro issues & the future of DnD

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Don't know how I've never actually listened to this before.

My brain and my ears don't quite know what to make of it...
That was my reaction too... but you put it so much more politely than I would.
 
There's a really great book called Choosing Death: the Improbable History of Death Metal and Grindcore that goes into the early history of the music and the labels. It's pretty fascinating, and not too thick.
This remark needs to go into the thread on thick rpg books, so that thread can drift in unison. :grin:
 
The only part of the impending rpg implosion I dread is the cacophony of armchair pundits quarterbacks who will inevitably come out of the woodwork to claim that it will be the result of the thing they've been claiming would destroy D&D "any day now" for a decade or more.
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lol, lmao
 

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I notice that the upcoming version of DnD apparently is being designed by committee, which feels like a mess in the works. It's good to have a solid team and good group of play testers, but there comes a point where it just becomes a mess and you lose coherence.

When you are taking long questionnaires from 40,000 plus people and then adding or removing things based on that feedback, it feels a bit wrong to me. I can't explain it better than that, it just feels wrong and a potential nightmare of design. Mob design, what could go wrong.

Anyhow, should be fascinating to watch evolve.
 
Too many cooks in the kitchen and all that.

This might be the paint-by-numbers edition.
 
I notice that the upcoming version of DnD apparently is being designed by committee, which feels like a mess in the works. It's good to have a solid team and good group of play testers, but there comes a point where it just becomes a mess and you lose coherence.

When you are taking long questionnaires from 40,000 plus people and then adding or removing things based on that feedback, it feels a bit wrong to me. I can't explain it better than that, it just feels wrong and a potential nightmare of design. Mob design, what could go wrong.

Anyhow, should be fascinating to watch evolve.
I dunno. 5e had similar feedback and the end result seemed good for most people. But those were all longish term d&d people. Now they've added a significant new cohort that is worth getting their feedback from. Axis and Allies has taken feedback that the game is too long, etc and released variants. Same with Risk. Plants vs Zombies Risk is a fun short game.

I think taking input is good. They still have to be the designers and make it cohesive.
 
Too many cooks in the kitchen and all that.

This might be the paint-by-numbers edition.
Well, it'll probably be hard not to watch in fascination, either like a train wreck or, less likely, Aphrodite emerging from the waves.
 
Honestly, I felt like 5e was designed by committee, as it feels really "processed" to me
 
TBH, It's safe to assume that WoTC is playtesting and internally discussing these changes before they are published. The other thing is that they've admit that there are whole parts of the playtest that are not designed for good gameplay, but specifically to provoke feedback. My guess is that the other reason these playtests may feel weird is because of the Virtual Tabletop. They want table top D&D and Virtual D&D to use the exact same system, so they are cleaning up and clarifying a bunch of the rules to support that virtual development.
 
I play in a 5e game, it doesn't feel very tight, though going to things like gencon, and seeing it discussed, I don't think that is the point anyways. As far as the future, they are focusing on digital it looks like by their hires. It would be surprising if it spun out of control, though hasbro is a big company, it can survive.
 
I dunno. 5e had similar feedback and the end result seemed good for most people. But those were all longish term d&d people. Now they've added a significant new cohort that is worth getting their feedback from. Axis and Allies has taken feedback that the game is too long, etc and released variants. Same with Risk. Plants vs Zombies Risk is a fun short game.

I think taking input is good. They still have to be the designers and make it cohesive.

Agreed. This is all the market / customer research work that goes into big AAA products like this.
 
User research and testing is valuable as long as the researchers know what they are doing.

Eg. If lots of people say "we LOVE feats, bring back feats", a good researcher would have ensured that the follow up questions would be along the lines of "why do you say that? What kinds of feats do you like? how many are too many? to Few? etc..."

Hopefully OneD&D works out for the people who want it.

edit: it seems obvious, but I've seen non-researchers write survey questions and most of the time they're useless and awful.
 
User research and testing is valuable as long as the researchers know what they are doing.

Eg. If lots of people say "we LOVE feats, bring back feats", a good researcher would have ensured that the follow up questions would be along the lines of "why do you say that? What kinds of feats do you like? how many are too many? to Few? etc..."

Hopefully OneD&D works out for the people who want it.

edit: it seems obvious, but I've seen non-researchers write survey questions and most of the time they're useless and awful.
Or non surveys where questions are designed to drive you into agreement with what's already been decided...
 
The fact that they are seeding the UA docs with deliberately extreme options to provoke responses points to at least someone having attended a seminar once.
 
The fact that they are seeding the UA docs with deliberately extreme options to provoke responses points to at least someone having attended a seminar once.

I have one in my current group that when talking about the last one thought it was all great and awesome. The arseling was top of the line and should be in the ph, the jumping rule was good, guidance spell change made it just right, etc., etc. That one also unironically thought the d20 Diablo game sounded great and couldn't be unbalanced because the video game was balanced.

Check the current set and see the goliath options. Teleports, auto-prone on hits, or a couple damage options that are ok in tier one but fall off hard by level 10. Recall that damage output & monster hp are going up in general and some healing options are getting stronger. That's likely your "extreme option" this time.

Totally different track: Have some spells lost the ritual tag? From the lists there are very very few rituals. I haven't really focused on the traditional casters this ed so I'm not super familiar with random details like that. It just seems like there's so few the ritual rules are getting... quietly ditched? Cut via neglect?

Also thinking its a new edition in fact if not in advertising because they changed healing's spell school again and wotc does that every edition.
 
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Honestly, I felt like 5e was designed by committee, as it feels really "processed" to me
It was. Have a look at Shadow of a Demon Lord for what one of the designers (probably the most talented one) did when he was free to make the game he wanted to make.
 
I have one in my current group that when talking about the last one thought it was all great and awesome. The arseling was top of the line and should be in the ph, the jumping rule was good, guidance spell change made it just right, etc., etc. That one also unironically thought the d20 Diablo game sounded great and couldn't be unbalanced because the video game was balanced.

Check the current set and see the goliath options. Teleports, auto-prone on hits, or a couple damage options that are ok in tier one but fall off hard by level 10. Recall that damage output & monster hp are going up in general and some healing options are getting stronger. That's likely your "extreme option" this time.

I absolutely agree that Goliath is one of the primary extreme opinions in the Cleric UA. I feel like they deliberately left out any damage scaling just to see how players react. After all, the Dragonborn is on the previous page and has level scaling for Breath Weapon. I'm not sure about the Teleport. Goliath's naturally match well with Martials and we haven't seen their UA yet. So we don't know if martials will be using their bonus action more often. If Martials are having to make a meaningful choice between the teleport and other actions, then it is likely balanced. It's basically giving a dash action as a bonus action, but it doesn't pair with anything that uses dash. The other big thing was Spiritual Weapon requiring concentration.
 
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