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Nobby-W

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I find that discussing game design actually warps the process. I have ideas in my head that are somewhat amorphous. They are essentially in a state of flux, even as I playtest them, but the very act of writing them down, explaining them to an audience, be it on a forum or elsewhere, seems to halt the entire process. Things get codified and crystallized that really should not be during the design stage, and in the end it prevents them growing organically. So that's why I generally don't do much design discussion on here.
I find I tend to swap between extended thinking by myself and discussing things. This is more due to the way my thought processes work. Often I find that processing something in a concrete way - drawing maps, writing stuff up, discussing the things with someone qualified to comment - can get things moving. The act of producing or processing stuff engages bits of my brain that just introverting on stuff doesn't.

By doing stuff in (often unnecessary) detail, it lets me think and come up with ideas in the detail. Often if I don't do that I just get blocked. My learning process also tend to be kinasthesic (learn by frigging with things).
 

TristramEvans

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Every place ends up an echo chamber. We probably are at this point. We have a culture. We seem to value non hostile discussion. It's generally frowned on to insult other groups in a serious tone but totally ok to tease people in what we consider a good natured tone.

Some folks are going to say the teasing is not ok. Some folks are going to dislike you can't seriously call people assholes and whatnot. They're going to leave and the remainder will be more and more comfortable with what they can do here. Plus it's still small. Maybe two dozen people I'm guessing are dominant in conversations here. Like a pub with regulars we know our personalities. But we're on the internet so random folks coming here won't always know what is serious insults and what's a joke between friends.

I think the Pub has a culture as you say, one that I hope will survive it's growth (as I look at the member counter and see it heading towards 1000), but I don't think we've got anything like an echo chamber, at least in the way I would use that term. There are some WILDLY different tastes and interests on here - you probably couldn't pay me to read or watch half the stuff Dumarest posts about, and I'm sure he has not much interest in a lot of the stuff I like (read: any comic, TV or film post the mid 1980s). We have some staunch grognards on here along with some dedicated narrative gamers, and we've tried our best to make The Pub welcoming to both. And I think if tomorrow we dropped the No Politics rule we'd find that the place devolved into an online civil war pretty quickly.

Case in point, take the Watchmen thread. We have some people really enjoying the show just as a story, we have some posters who really dig the political themes of the show, we have some posters who instantly despise it as "preachy" or detect ideologies they are opposed to that turn them off, and then there is people like me, who think the entire concept is an affront to one of the best works of literature of the 20th century. But we can all co exist because of the culture we developed (and the occasionaly light Mod interference).

I don't want an echo chamber. I don't need anyone to like everything I like, believe what I believe, or repeat what I would say. That's what porn is for. I think the Pub would be much poorer if we didn't have threads about the OSR co-existed with threads about PbTA on the main forum, and Dumarest showing his love for Eric Estrada and dead musicians while anime discussions and dank memes are dropped on the Media forum.
 

Baulderstone

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Every place ends up an echo chamber. We probably are at this point. We have a culture. We seem to value non hostile discussion. It's generally frowned on to insult other groups in a serious tone but totally ok to tease people in what we consider a good natured tone.

Some folks are going to say the teasing is not ok. Some folks are going to dislike you can't seriously call people assholes and whatnot. They're going to leave and the remainder will be more and more comfortable with what they can do here. Plus it's still small. Maybe two dozen people I'm guessing are dominant in conversations here. Like a pub with regulars we know our personalities. But we're on the internet so random folks coming here won't always know what is serious insults and what's a joke between friends.
I'd say the pub had certainly developed a culture of its own, but I don't think its an echo chamber. We have some posters here who are needlessly dismissive of games that they don't like, but I don't think they are the ones setting the tone here. I don't think any forum that can support fruitful discussion of both old school D&D and Cortex Plus can be called an echo chamber.

Maybe its a definition thing. I define an echo chamber as a place where, either through moderation or the local culture, you are going to get grief if you step outside the narrow opinions of the group.

It's true that the place has a crowd of regulars now, but even among the regulars, I think there is variety. Look at a list the ten members who have gotten the most likes on their comments.
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While the membership definitely skews older here, there is still a solid variety of tastes. Leaving the staff out of the picture, the two members with the most likes are Voros and Dumarest, who have very different tastes in games. Moving further down the list, we have Edgewise, who focuses on OSR play sitting right next to Theophilus Carter, who plays Fate. I don't think you could see that in an echo chamber.
 

Bunch

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I think of echo chamber as self reinforcing. That's not necessarily bad. I've seen the more heated discussions here get a cold shoulder/semi mass Exodus when it devolves too much into name calling or hostility. Mods don't necessarily have to step in because the nature of the place tends self moderate.
 

TristramEvans

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I think of echo chamber as self reinforcing. That's not necessarily bad. I've seen the more heated discussions here get a cold shoulder/semi mass Exodus when it devolves too much into name calling or hostility. Mods don't necessarily have to step in because the nature of the place tends self moderate.


I guess I'd personally refer to that as "cultural reinforcement"
 

Baulderstone

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I think of echo chamber as self reinforcing. That's not necessarily bad. I've seen the more heated discussions here get a cold shoulder/semi mass Exodus when it devolves too much into name calling or hostility. Mods don't necessarily have to step in because the nature of the place tends self moderate.
My feeling is that in an echo chamber, when a heated discussion breaks out between two posters, everyone else needs to come in on the side of the poster that is closer to the orthodoxy of the forum, or the one that holds higher status, dogpiling whoever is on the wrong side. Ideally, they can then label the person that is "wrong" as a pariah. In future threads that have nothing to do with Traveller, their opinion will be dismissed. "Yeah, but you would think that. I'd expect no better from someone that liked MegaTraveller."

Whereas here, when a bitter discussion over the true edition of Traveller breaks out, the general consensus isn't that one side or the other is wrong. It's that those two guys need to chill out.

If you remember when Zak flamed out here, he was demanding that the moderation here needed to settle arguments. If two people worked themselves into a rage over THACO, it wasn't enough to tell them to take a deep breath. We needed to arbitrate their dispute.

I'd say the Pub definitely has a distinct attitude and sense of humor that runs through a lot of members, and not everyone will click with that. The Pub is never going to be for everybody, but I hope it never really becomes an echo chamber.
 

TristramEvans

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I will say that as a Mod, one of the conscious decisions or approaches I've taken regarding that since accepting the role is to prioritize opinions that I disagree with. I'm much more likely to exert effort trying to empathize with PoV that a disagree with, something that I think has sometimes backfired on me, but overall is how I try to balance against biases.
 

Endless Flight

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I love this place and even I’m surprised sometimes by how it has turned out, for the good. For instance, years ago, I hated memes. I would roll my eyes when I saw them. Here at the Pub, I love them and they usually always make me laugh when I see them. People here really have a good sense of humor and it’s infused in the site.

The Pub certainly won’t be for everyone. From my perspective, it’s those who are very serious about always infusing some kind of political or societal angle into every thread. It’s games people, and it’s certainly not worth getting stressed about adding depressing stuff into. The Pub needs to stay fun.

I know for a fact that people have thought this was unsustainable and we are are going to be three years old next April. I’m usually not very serious about many things, but I will always be that way when it’s about keeping this place as friendly and accommodating to as many people as possible.
 

TristramEvans

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i8s66whl9ry11.jpg
 

Mankcam

Coiner of Thread-Falls, & Inadvert Founder of Swo'
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Aww you guys, 'tis bringing a tear to my eye, I didn't make the top ten posters, yet I'll always be remembered as one of those 'Australian guys', as well as the inadvert founder of the 'Swo' movement...

(I am a big BRP, 2D20, and Fate GM, and love classic Sword n Sorcery, Pulp Adventure/Action, Supers, and Star Wars; but that all gets lost in the flood)

I'm on my way for a busy day at work (which unfortunately doesn't include wearing crocadile skin hats and wielding bowie knives), and you've made my day.

(and yes there are bushfires about an hour or so up the highway from us at present, this is the Australian summer)

I'll post something witty when I can, but just popping in to comment on appreciating all the goofiness in this place :thumbsup: :grin:
 
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Mankcam

Coiner of Thread-Falls, & Inadvert Founder of Swo'
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No dingos either. Or koalas. Or koalas riding dingos boxing ba kangaroo.
Just saw all that whilst driving to work, it's nothing to write home about :grin:
 

Dumarest

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Aww you guys, 'tis bringing a tear to my eye, I didn't make the top ten posters, yet I'll always be remembered as one of those 'Australian guys', as well as the inadvert founder of the 'Swo' movement...

(I am a big BRP, 2D20, and Fate GM, and love classic Sword n Sorcery, Pulp Adventure/Action, Supers, and Star Wars; but that all gets lost in the flood)

I'm on my way for a busy day at work (which unfortunately doesn't include wearing crocadile skin hats and wielding bowie knives), and you've made my day.

(and yes there are bushfires about an hour or so up the highway from us at present, this is the Australian summer)

I'll post something witty when I can, but just popping in to comment on appreciating all the goofiness in this place :thumbsup: :grin:
It's also a tribute to the staff that they take all of Mankcam Mankcam's upside-down text and reformat it for Northern Hemisphere readers. I keep telling them it'd be easier if Mankcam Mankcam would just type while hanging from his feet like a fruitbat, thereby bypassing the need for reformatting, but that just shows the lengths they will go to in order to include a wide range of opinions on swo, how to clean microwave ovens, and sometimes RPGs.
1dfb_3533.jpg
 

Baulderstone

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Aww you guys, 'tis bringing a tear to my eye, I didn't make the top ten posters, yet I'll always be remembered as one of those 'Australian guys', as well as the inadvert founder of the 'Swo' movement...
You may not have made the top ten, but you are in at #15. That's not too shabby considering you are sleeping during a lot of the peak posting hours at the Pub.

It's also a tribute to the staff that they take all of Mankcam Mankcam's upside-down text and reformat it for Northern Hemisphere readers. I keep telling them it'd be easier if Mankcam Mankcam would just type while hanging from his feet like a fruitbat, thereby bypassing the need for reformatting, but that just shows the lengths they will go to in order to include a wide range of opinions on swo, how to clean microwave ovens, and sometimes RPGs.
You can thank Apparition Apparition for the custom script he wrote for the forum to handle that.
 

Antiquation!

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As an aside I have to say, I really like the formatting and relaxed/subdued color choices for the Pub. Very easy on the eyes, and the day/night toggle is a nice feature. Almost like a real pub (except when I hang around this pub, no one bats an eye when I drink my bottom-of-the-barrel, 100-proof monarch neat)! :drink:

In comparison, most other gaming forums make my eyes feel like they're about to bleed. All those brain-searing bright colors, badge vomit everywhere, etc. is just horrible for extended reading.
 

TristramEvans

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I'm surprised in general about how awful the formatting/graphic design of most social media is these days, including the "big boys" like Facebook and Twitter. On the few occassions I've actually wanted to read something on Twitter, just navigating the sight is so migraine-inducing I give up in frustration. Pub is miles ahead in that regard, I find it very soothing, even on my cellphone.
 

Antiquation!

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I'm surprised in general about how awful the formatting/graphic design of most social media is these days, including the "big boys" like Facebook and Twitter. On the few occassions I've actually wanted to read something on Twitter, just navigating the sight is so migraine-inducing I give up in frustration. Pub is miles ahead in that regard, I find it very soothing, even on my cellphone.
Oh man, yeah. Trying to find anything on Facebook or Twitter is the most frustrating damn thing. I suppose its somewhat poetic though, in that in my experience nothing truly worth remembering or going back to find has ever been posted on either platform anyway.

I will have to try out the Pub on mobile!
 
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Dumarest

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I was on the docks, minding my old business after having a few drinks.
Then suddenly WHAM !!!, Then everything went black, and now I've woken up here on this ship. :shade:
Wait, you were assaulted by George Michael? :clown:
What happens between two consenting adults in a public men's restroom is nobody's business.*

* Except the poor bastard who has to clean up later
 

Bunch

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What happens between two consenting adults in a public men's restroom is nobody's business.*

* Except the poor bastard who has to clean up later
No joke after college I shared a flat with four other guys and whoever was too poor to be able to live anywhere else. One of our couch surfers was the janitor for the Lusty Lady. That was a local co-op peep shop on first avenue famous for it's creative timely signage.
 

Black Leaf

This Film's Crap. Let's Slash the Seats.
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Some folks are going to say the teasing is not ok. Some folks are going to dislike you can't seriously call people assholes and whatnot. They're going to leave and the remainder will be more and more comfortable with what they can do here. Plus it's still small. Maybe two dozen people I'm guessing are dominant in conversations here. Like a pub with regulars we know our personalities. But we're on the internet so random folks coming here won't always know what is serious insults and what's a joke between friends.

It's easy enough to tell with the Brits.

If we call you a "knob" we're being friendly.

If we start saying things like "I'm not sure I entirely agree" we're being aggressive.

And if we start prefacing our posts with "with respect" we're going to murder you in your sleep.
 

spittingimage

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I decided a while ago to add “swo” somewhere in the new Pub logo when I get a finalized version ready. You will be immortalized, maybe not in the way you may have envisioned. :hehe:
Personally I've decided to be immortalised as an ageless cyborg powered by the blood of infant children. But that's cool too, I guess.
 

soltakss

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I have virtually no sense of smell. People give me a hard time about it and say ooh that's why you like boring food. Most of the time I love it. People with BO dont bug me. I change dirty diapers like a champ! I worked at a chicken farm for a while and wholly shit the ammonia levels in there make most people have or cry but it didn't bother me much.

Same here, but sometimes my sense of smell suddenly returns, for no apparent reason, so I wonder how people can live like this for several hours, before it blissfully goes away again.
 

Kilted Rob

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It seems that many people suck at cooking turkey because they hardly ever do it. So, to be extra safe, they way overcook it.
Brining works great but takes time and effort. Rubbing a fat or something on the outside helps, as does putting liquid in the bottom. I find it's very important to NOT baste. Opening the oven releases the built up steam and makes the air drier; also cooler, which increases cooking time.

But, even if you do it right, turkey is goodish at best. The white meat is kinda bland. My wife and kids don't care for turkey in any form. I've started doing a beef roast for Thanksgiving and ham for Christmas. Christmas is busy and ham takes no effort. If I could get everyone to east goose or duck, I'd make it.

Using a bag helps, putting butter under the skin helps, injecting the bird with flavor blends help, making sure your oven is not out of whack temp wise helps, but really, the best turkey is smoked. The more bland white meat takes on the smoke and the more flavorful dark meat becomes simply divine.

Rob
 

Bunch

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Same here, but sometimes my sense of smell suddenly returns, for no apparent reason, so I wonder how people can live like this for several hours, before it blissfully goes away again.
Mine comes back a little too. Usually it's at a particularly poor time.
 
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